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post #1 of 15 Old 03-31-2013, 02:00 AM - Thread Starter
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Hi everyone,

I searched the internet for hours to find an official explanaition of what the 3d "viewpoint" settings on my 47 inch LG Cinema 3D TV mean. So far I really dont understand what the official meaning of this setting is and when to use it properly. The settings range from +10 till -10.

Some sources say that its there to eliminate crosstalk. In my personal experience I always thought that its some sort of a "depth slider". For example: Set it to 0 when you sit exactly 2 meters away from your tv. Increase or decrease the setting according to your "viewpoint distance". I feel that the minus settings increase the feeling "oh I am looking into/through a window" whereas the plus setting are the opposite and pronounce more "into your face pop-up effects"
But I dont know if my thinking is correct. And I dont find any source what the ideal setting is. Maybe someone here know.

For Example:

1: Titanic 3d. Awesome 3d conversion. Works best if the viewpoint is actually set to -7. I feel that the overall 3d effect is better. Things have more depth. It feels like looking through a window.

2: Promtheus 3d: Firstly what a bad choice to present the 3d blu ray in "wide screen" ratio and not in 16:9!

A side question: Prometheus doesnt let me zoom with my blu ray player. Something that the Dredd 3d blu ray allows. I have no freaking clue why that is?

But back to prometheus. I find the viewpoint setting 0 to be a very flat 3d image. It feels like you really have to look for 3d. The -7 setting creates a little bit of "window like depth". And the + 7 setting is sometimes good but not always.

Please help any input is appreaciated.
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post #2 of 15 Old 03-31-2013, 09:26 AM
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I think this comes down to preference really. For example, I prefer the letterboxed 3D movies over the full 16x9 movies. What ever looks best to you...
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post #3 of 15 Old 03-31-2013, 09:35 AM - Thread Starter
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Hi thanks for your reply. But my question was about the viewpoint settings with lg's tv s
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post #4 of 15 Old 03-31-2013, 10:20 AM
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The 3D Viewpoint setting controls the separation of the left and right eye images and allows you to either pull them farther apart, increasing the sense of depth, or bring them closer together. It can be used to manage crosstalk but in my experience I find that changing the setting will either affect foreground or background objects. I tend to leave it at its neutral setting for most sources and really only play around with it when using 2D>3D conversion as I find that is where I get the most use out of it.
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post #5 of 15 Old 03-31-2013, 11:37 AM
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What ever looks best to you...
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post #6 of 15 Old 03-31-2013, 12:31 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by TonyDP View Post

The 3D Viewpoint setting controls the separation of the left and right eye images and allows you to either pull them farther apart, increasing the sense of depth, or bring them closer together. It can be used to manage crosstalk but in my experience I find that changing the setting will either affect foreground or background objects. I tend to leave it at its neutral setting for most sources and really only play around with it when using 2D>3D conversion as I find that is where I get the most use out of it.

Thanks for your answer. Cool I will test it again. Please tell how far you are sitting away from your tv ?
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post #7 of 15 Old 03-31-2013, 03:28 PM
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I started messing with the view point settings when i noticed a little bit of background crosstalk in 3D movies like AVATAR & Despicable me..I found the best setting that reduced the crosstalk without changing the intended 3D image is minus 3.
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post #8 of 15 Old 03-31-2013, 06:20 PM
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Originally Posted by 3DFish View Post

Thanks for your answer. Cool I will test it again. Please tell how far you are sitting away from your tv ?

I sit about 7 feet away from my 55" LM7600
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post #9 of 15 Old 04-02-2013, 02:46 AM
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3D viewpoint BASICALLY takes the 3D scene and shifts it towards or away from the viewer. It's easier to understand if you pause your program and play with the slider while noting how the image depth is changing relative to the tv's surrounding frame.

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post #10 of 15 Old 04-03-2013, 10:32 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by cakefoo View Post

3D viewpoint BASICALLY takes the 3D scene and shifts it towards or away from the viewer. It's easier to understand if you pause your program and play with the slider while noting how the image depth is changing relative to the tv's surrounding frame.

Ok but that sounds different again. The way I understand and as Tony described it is (in layman terms): differetn people have different eyes. Some peoples eyes are further apart from each other than with other people. Viewpoint therefore means fine tuning the TV according to your needs.

But what you are describing is something different. Or am I incorrect. I also noticed the shift away and towards you. But why implement that. I am sorry once again I am lost again.
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post #11 of 15 Old 04-04-2013, 02:08 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 3DFish View Post

Ok but that sounds different again. The way I understand and as Tony described it is (in layman terms): differetn people have different eyes. Some peoples eyes are further apart from each other than with other people. Viewpoint therefore means fine tuning the TV according to your needs.

But what you are describing is something different. Or am I incorrect. I also noticed the shift away and towards you. But why implement that. I am sorry once again I am lost again.
There are two key factors controlling a 3D image. Interaxial is the distance between the left and right cameras. This controls how strong the 3D is. There's no setting that can tweak that, as it would require one of the two cameras to move position and film from a new angle. Convergence on the other hand, can be controlled after the film is shot, because all it does is pan the left and right images horizontally. I won't go into detail on the how or why, but this is what the Viewpoint setting on your TV is modifying, and the effect is the perception that the contents of the screen are closer towards you or further away from you, depending on which direction you move the slider off-center. But since the image doesn't change size with the change in perceived z-axis position, that's going to play with your head a little and will subtly change the sense of size and scale and depth. Some people like depth, others like popout, and some just like to leave it in the middle. I personally think the scale is lacking at default, so I push things back just slightly.

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post #12 of 15 Old 04-05-2013, 01:01 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by cakefoo View Post

There are two key factors controlling a 3D image. Interaxial is the distance between the left and right cameras. This controls how strong the 3D is. There's no setting that can tweak that, as it would require one of the two cameras to move position and film from a new angle. Convergence on the other hand, can be controlled after the film is shot, because all it does is pan the left and right images horizontally. I won't go into detail on the how or why, but this is what the Viewpoint setting on your TV is modifying, and the effect is the perception that the contents of the screen are closer towards you or further away from you, depending on which direction you move the slider off-center. But since the image doesn't change size with the change in perceived z-axis position, that's going to play with your head a little and will subtly change the sense of size and scale and depth. Some people like depth, others like popout, and some just like to leave it in the middle. I personally think the scale is lacking at default, so I push things back just slightly.

Finally a very good in depth description. So viewpoint settings has everything to do perception of the 3d effect and NOT fine tuning ghosting ? Right ?

I wonder what the official recommended setting is. Its nowhere mentioned in the TV manuals or LG's website.
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post #13 of 15 Old 04-05-2013, 01:20 PM
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Finally a very good in depth description. So viewpoint settings has everything to do perception of the 3d effect and NOT fine tuning ghosting ? Right ?

I wonder what the official recommended setting is. Its nowhere mentioned in the TV manuals or LG's website.
They're both the depth/popout in relation to the screen AND it also has an impact on ghosting.

Think of it this way: ghosting is the result of the lenses not being able to fully block the signal that is intended for the other eye. Two things affect ghosting, depth and contrast. What affects depth on a 3DTV is screen parallax. That's simply the distance apart that two identical objects are spaced. This is not the same as the distance apart our eyes are, but rather when you take the glasses off you can see two of the same everything, and the amount of horizontal shift varies from object to object, and that horizontal spacing is screen parallax. The bigger the gap between the two objects, the further in or out of the screen that 3D object will pop. Things that appear in 3D to be at the surface of the screen will have virtually zero horizontal shift, so even if you have the glasses off you won't see a double image. That's essentially why, for instance, you never see ghosting on your videogame heads-up display unless you tweak the viewpoint setting on your TV.

Official recommended viewpoint setting is probably the factory default +/- 0. I have mine set so that things go a little deeper into the screen (I think it's plus or minus 3, or thereabouts), because it makes it seem like a bigger screen further away, so better sense of scale in movies like Transformers DOTM. But again, when you increase the depth, it's going to intensify the screen parallax of the deepest objects, and therefore will increase the chance of crosstalk. When you increase the popout (moving the viewpoint slider in the opposite direction to bring the scene towards you) it will increase crosstalk in moments of popout and will decrease the sense of scale, it tends to miniaturize things, but that's a sacrifice for each person to decide to make.

Fortunately the passive sets have pretty good crosstalk levels, so there's a little flexibility in how much you can bend the depth.

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post #14 of 15 Old 05-30-2013, 10:13 PM
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With LG's settings in 2D to 3D mode, do I understand correctly that 'Depth' increases the simulated distance between foreground elements and background? In that case, would having a Viewpoint of +10--the highest level of "pop-out"--and Depth maxed out at 20 represent the greatest amount of "virtual space" between foreground and background? Not that I intend to watch with those levels, but for the sake of illustration...

By that logic, I imagine that reducing 'Depth' to zero and dropping Viewpoint to -10 would reduce the space between objects to a minimum and also collapse them back to the farthest point in the visual field?

While we're on the subject, has anyone else with an LG LM7600 experienced the oft reported shifting of L/R visual fields in either 2D to 3D mode or especially with genuine 3D content? From what I've been able to determine, it seems to stem from use of the Depth control at higher levels in 2D to 3D mode and ANY use of Viewpoint in 3D mode for native 3D content. With 2D to 3D, my guess is that increasing Depth creates the need for more complex dimensional mapping on the fly, and the extra calculating produces some instability. Dropping 'Depth' to zero eliminates any shifting; it doesn't seem to matter what Viewpoint is set to... Unfortunately, while I've found higher Depth--I've been testing it maxed at 20!--really does enhance the 3D simulation in 2D to 3D mode, the inherent visual fluctuation makes for some eye strain and dizziness over time. Can't see how this shifting issue wouldn't be a factor with a "live" conversion process, especially given how quickly depth profiles in specific scenes and shots have to change; there's bound to be a little tweaking on the go. It probably won't be long before LG's able to improve the accuracy and speed of this process such that 2D to 3D features may begin to approach the quality of more methodical post-conversion processes. For now, most of my use of this will be done with Viewpoint and Depth closer to the center line. But I can't rule out occasional use of Extreme Depth; it's awesome, and probably worth the headache!

By the way, in some places I've read that LG doesn't even intend the "Viewpoint" setting for use with native 3D content, that it's a 2D to 3D only feature....but I've been unable to get confirmation on that. To the contrary, a post in LG's own question forum had a rep advise that both controls were for use with native 3D as well as 2D to 3D. Confusing. Regardless, a hands-off policy on LG's Viewpoint slider with native 3D seems to eliminate the shifting problem. Depth, from my experiments in this mode, doesn't cause a problem.
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post #15 of 15 Old 04-08-2014, 03:31 AM
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Originally Posted by JackN View Post

With LG's settings in 2D to 3D mode, do I understand correctly that 'Depth' increases the simulated distance between foreground elements and background? In that case, would having a Viewpoint of +10--the highest level of "pop-out"--and Depth maxed out at 20 represent the greatest amount of "virtual space" between foreground and background? Not that I intend to watch with those levels, but for the sake of illustration...

By that logic, I imagine that reducing 'Depth' to zero and dropping Viewpoint to -10 would reduce the space between objects to a minimum and also collapse them back to the farthest point in the visual field?

While we're on the subject, has anyone else with an LG LM7600 experienced the oft reported shifting of L/R visual fields in either 2D to 3D mode or especially with genuine 3D content? From what I've been able to determine, it seems to stem from use of the Depth control at higher levels in 2D to 3D mode and ANY use of Viewpoint in 3D mode for native 3D content. With 2D to 3D, my guess is that increasing Depth creates the need for more complex dimensional mapping on the fly, and the extra calculating produces some instability. Dropping 'Depth' to zero eliminates any shifting; it doesn't seem to matter what Viewpoint is set to... Unfortunately, while I've found higher Depth--I've been testing it maxed at 20!--really does enhance the 3D simulation in 2D to 3D mode, the inherent visual fluctuation makes for some eye strain and dizziness over time. Can't see how this shifting issue wouldn't be a factor with a "live" conversion process, especially given how quickly depth profiles in specific scenes and shots have to change; there's bound to be a little tweaking on the go. It probably won't be long before LG's able to improve the accuracy and speed of this process such that 2D to 3D features may begin to approach the quality of more methodical post-conversion processes. For now, most of my use of this will be done with Viewpoint and Depth closer to the center line. But I can't rule out occasional use of Extreme Depth; it's awesome, and probably worth the headache!

By the way, in some places I've read that LG doesn't even intend the "Viewpoint" setting for use with native 3D content, that it's a 2D to 3D only feature....but I've been unable to get confirmation on that. To the contrary, a post in LG's own question forum had a rep advise that both controls were for use with native 3D as well as 2D to 3D. Confusing. Regardless, a hands-off policy on LG's Viewpoint slider with native 3D seems to eliminate the shifting problem. Depth, from my experiments in this mode, doesn't cause a problem.

 

 

Hi Jack,

 

Sorry to bother , but can you please tell me what is the shifting issue you are facing. Actually I am also facing some issues with 3d when I am watching original 3d content and setting the viewpoint to 10. The picture is little bit stretching and shrinking to its position at some point of the movie from both left and right hand side and that is creating strain on eyes. Now I cant understand it is default or an issue. I  have 47lm7600. But if I set viewpoint to 0 then its coming fine. 

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