Optoma BG-BC100B, 3D-RF Emitter Compatable glasses? - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 50 Old 09-05-2013, 12:35 AM - Thread Starter
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Hello there! I'm new to the whole 3D scene and this so far has been my biggest downfall. Are there any other reasonable priced 3D glasses for this RF emitter? I'm buying the projector and everything and one pair for almost 80 bucks isn't really in the budget atm. xD
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post #2 of 50 Old 09-05-2013, 06:14 PM - Thread Starter
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30 Views and not a nibble? D: I just tried these with no luck:

SainSonic Galilei Series G111 Rechargeable 3D Active Shutter Eyewear
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post #3 of 50 Old 09-05-2013, 06:47 PM - Thread Starter
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Hey! to all you viewers out there that have yet to comment;

"Good news everyone!"

I seem to have found a 3rd party Emitter and Glasses combo that should, in theory, work on said Optoma!

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00D39AUCI/ref=ox_sc_act_title_1?ie=UTF8&psc=1&smid=AGNVLBADXSP8N

I'll be ordering them tomorrow and should have them in Saturday so I'll try to post the result! Wish me luck!
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post #4 of 50 Old 09-05-2013, 07:43 PM
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I just got a pair of the EStars in today, and they are identical to the Optoma's just re-branded works with the Optoma emitter. I've been very happy with these latest (ZF2100) glasses, best out there, only complaint is the on/off button.

On a related note does anyone know if the emitter software has ever been upgraded from the VIP3D version on curtpalme's website?
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post #5 of 50 Old 09-06-2013, 08:10 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rchiffelle View Post


On a related note does anyone know if the emitter software has ever been upgraded from the VIP3D version on curtpalme's website?

Download the ESG6100 utility on EStar's website to see what version they have.
td
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post #6 of 50 Old 09-06-2013, 09:08 AM
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Thanks!

The Estar version shows 1.06.004. The last VIP version was 1.05.004. But then I don't know yet what has changed, they look identical.
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post #7 of 50 Old 09-06-2013, 12:35 PM - Thread Starter
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Yay people! biggrin.gif

So then are the Estar just as good quality as the Optoma ones?

Also; I've been trying some SainSonic DLP Glasses for the time being; will there be any real difference between these and RF glasses?
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post #8 of 50 Old 09-06-2013, 04:04 PM
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I compared the Optoma to the Estar (RF), they look identical, and the image through the glasses is the same also. They also come in the same size box with an extra nose piece, soft cloth and soft case. Now I don't know about the reliability, they are about $25 cheaper than the Optoma.
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post #9 of 50 Old 09-06-2013, 04:53 PM
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I've played around with just about every make of DLP glasses up until these RF glasses came out. There are several issues that I found with almost all DLP glasses: 1) Rainbows due to the polarization (look at a large white area on the TV, these are not DLP rainbows, they are "pinkish" color bands), 2) The blacks are crushed (usually with a green tint), or 3) significant changes in brightness/tint when looking at the screen at an angle (moving your head side to side or up and down).

When a particular brand didn't have one issue, they would have another. Now in several cases it wasn't terrible, but once you see it, you can't unsee it. The only DLP glasses that worked perfect (no rainbows, great blacks and no change in brightness/tint with angle) were the RealD CrystallEyes 5. They were over $200 when you could get them, and I only managed to get one pair before that business unit went away. Now some other brands were decent (Optoma being one), but all still had one or more of the aforementioned issues to some extent.

Granted, I haven't tried the new Optoma ZD301 or the Sainsonics, because I gave up on DLP link once I tried the Optoma/Monster RF. The first MonsterVision/Optoma glasses were good, but they were heavy and they did change brightness with angle (likely due to the large round lenses), the ZD2100's have no issues that I can find. The one thing to consider with this RF system is if you have a DLP, turn off the signal (if possible), it does impact the image (on my TV at least, I have Mitsubishi DLPs (RIP), a 60 and an 82".) Another feature I really liked is that you can change the delay and the duty cycle of the emitter to best match your TV with the utility.
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post #10 of 50 Old 09-08-2013, 11:27 AM
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Originally Posted by marcoalexander View Post

Yay people! biggrin.gif

So then are the Estar just as good quality as the Optoma ones?

Also; I've been trying some SainSonic DLP Glasses for the time being; will there be any real difference between these and RF glasses?

The VIP, Monster (now discontinued), Optoma, and now, apparently, EStar, are all sourced from a company called Bit Cauldron. Original versions (larger and rounder than the current models) had some issues early on with battery charging. This was eventually traced to an out-of-spec resistor on the glasses' circuit boards. My recently-purchased VIP-branded glasses and emitter similar to the EStars show a firmware version of 1.06.xxxx when queried by the older VIP utility I use, so it looks like the EStar utility is newer than the VIP one on the Curt Palme website.

EDIT: I have ordered 2 pairs of the EStar glasses, one with an emitter (as a backup for my current emitter) and one without. I just couldn't pass up those prices. They should be here Wednesday, then we'll see!

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post #11 of 50 Old 09-12-2013, 08:20 AM
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Well, the EStar glases came, and as I expected, they work fine with the VIP emitter. It's interesting that the VIP emitter has firmware 1.06.404, the EStar emitter has firmware 1.06.204, and the update/control utility on EStar's website can install 1.06.004. Wonder what the differences are? The VIP glasses can reverse polarity with a momentary press of the on/off switch without having to use the control utility or emitter joystick, and the user manual describes this. However, the EStar manual doesn't mention it and I didn't test yet to see if the capability is there.

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post #12 of 50 Old 09-12-2013, 03:44 PM
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Glad that they seem to work Think I may try a few pairs myself
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post #13 of 50 Old 09-26-2013, 09:30 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rolls-Royce View Post

Well, the EStar glases came, and as I expected, they work fine with the VIP emitter. It's interesting that the VIP emitter has firmware 1.06.404, the EStar emitter has firmware 1.06.204, and the update/control utility on EStar's website can install 1.06.004. Wonder what the differences are? The VIP glasses can reverse polarity with a momentary press of the on/off switch without having to use the control utility or emitter joystick, and the user manual describes this. However, the EStar manual doesn't mention it and I didn't test yet to see if the capability is there.

I will ask Bit Cauldron about how my firmware numbers compare to other OEMs firmware numbers and post here if there is an update and what it does. I will also ask to post the change history - most of the revs were adding support for new IR codes for the IR receiver every time a new IR display came out.

I confirm the on/off comments - VIP can be reversed with the power button and EStar America can only be reversed with the emitter.

I think polarity adjustment in the emitter only is a good thing for the Optoma / Mitsu / VESA Port glasses aftermarket that I'm trying to delight -- you set the polarity with the emitter and you know that everyone else is seeing the exact same not-reversed picture as you are. Is there something I'm missing here?

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post #14 of 50 Old 09-26-2013, 11:23 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PhilipSosie View Post

I will ask Bit Cauldron about how my firmware numbers compare to other OEMs firmware numbers and post here if there is an update and what it does. I will also ask to post the change history - most of the revs were adding support for new IR codes for the IR receiver every time a new IR display came out.

I confirm the on/off comments - VIP can be reversed with the power button and EStar America can only be reversed with the emitter.

I think polarity adjustment in the emitter only is a good thing for the Optoma / Mitsu / VESA Port glasses aftermarket that I'm trying to delight -- you set the polarity with the emitter and you know that everyone else is seeing the exact same not-reversed picture as you are. Is there something I'm missing here?

Hi, Philip. Welcome to the forum. A change list for the BC firmware would be cool. Interesting that your emitters carry .204 firmware, while the update utility has .004. On the surface, that looks like a step back. Perhaps the differences are only customizations and don't affect core functionality.

Personally, I do like having polarity reversal in the glasses. It means I don't have to get up and cross the room to futz with the emitter's joystick, which I find awkward to use anyway. This is not a slap at your product, by the way. I've never liked using the BC emitter joystick, no matter who sells it.

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post #15 of 50 Old 09-26-2013, 01:38 PM
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A change list would be great! So far the EStar glasses have worked perfectly. Once you set the polarity (in software) you shouldn't have to change it unless something in your system gets reset.
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post #16 of 50 Old 09-26-2013, 10:29 PM
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A change list would be great! So far the EStar glasses have worked perfectly. Once you set the polarity (in software) you shouldn't have to change it unless something in your system gets reset.

I've seen polarity reverse sometimes after changing discs. You'd think it shouldn't, but it does.

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post #17 of 50 Old 09-26-2013, 11:02 PM - Thread Starter
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Sorry for my absence; some things came up.

But in relation to my last post; I concur! the glasses work fantastically! Beautiful quality and very simple set-up. I quite prefer them to the DLP ones honestly.

The only con is the box, it sorta looks ridiculous xD
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post #18 of 50 Old 09-27-2013, 08:21 AM
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I've had these polarity changes mostly back when I had DLP glasses. I guess it could be from anywhere in the video chain player>tv>emitter>glasses. For this RF system, once I set it in software and update the emitter it doesn't switch. If you switch it with the joystick or on the glasses is the setting saved when you turn everything off?
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post #19 of 50 Old 09-27-2013, 11:03 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rchiffelle View Post

I've had these polarity changes mostly back when I had DLP glasses. I guess it could be from anywhere in the video chain player>tv>emitter>glasses. For this RF system, once I set it in software and update the emitter it doesn't switch. If you switch it with the joystick or on the glasses is the setting saved when you turn everything off?

I believe it is.

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post #20 of 50 Old 09-29-2013, 06:03 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rchiffelle View Post

I've had these polarity changes mostly back when I had DLP glasses. I guess it could be from anywhere in the video chain player>tv>emitter>glasses. For this RF system, once I set it in software and update the emitter it doesn't switch. If you switch it with the joystick or on the glasses is the setting saved when you turn everything off?

Yes. If you adjust polarity, delay, or duty cycle, with the joystick (and wait 60 seconds before power-down for it to save) or with the PC Utility and clicked Save, then these settings are saved and restored after power-up. EXCEPT.... (Confession time) if you used the old Estar America 1.06.004 Utility to "downgraded" an EStar 1.06.204 device to 1.06.004, in which case it almost certainly stopped saving your changes. The fix is to download a new copy of the Estar America 1.06.204 Utility, online as of today here, and restore your device to the factory firmware, after which it will start saving your changes again.
http://www.estaramerica.com/upgrade-utility.html

I will send Rchiffelle an apology and this explanation in a private message since this probably happened to him. If anyone had something bad happen send me a private message feel welcome and I'll try to get you up and running again.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rolls-Royce View Post

Well, the EStar glases came, and as I expected, they work fine with the VIP emitter. It's interesting that the VIP emitter has firmware 1.06.404, the EStar emitter has firmware 1.06.204, and the update/control utility on EStar's website can install 1.06.004. Wonder what the differences are? The VIP glasses can reverse polarity with a momentary press of the on/off switch without having to use the control utility or emitter joystick, and the user manual describes this. However, the EStar manual doesn't mention it and I didn't test yet to see if the capability is there.

In the Bit Cauldron BC100 firmware number 1.06.M04 the "M" is not a part of the functional level, it is a manufacturers feature set code where:
0 is the "Bit Cauldron" development release that I wasn't supposed to ship.
2 is the "Bit Cauldron recommended common UI functions" release used with the HD33, Estar America, et. al.
4 is VIP-3D (for example, it upgrades VIP glasses and maintains VIP's polarity-reversing power button)

Changelist cheat sheet: The biggest firmware changes since the Monster firmware are that the VESA Port "Defaults" have been moved from "Mitsu timing" to "HD33 timing".

Mitsubishi Television timing is 4750/105 (delay/duty) [Not Reversed relative to itself] (also the LightSpeed X1 timing)
HD33 timing is 450/105 (delay/duty) [Plus Reverse relative to Mitsu]
3D-XL with HD66 timing is 450/105 (delay/duty) [Not Reversed relative to Mitsu = Reversed relative to HD33]

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post #21 of 50 Old 10-01-2013, 11:53 AM
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Having the default timings (Mitsubishi) is very helpful. Before I had to play around with them to maximize brightness (duty), and then adjust delay to avoid crosstalk and color shifts (DLP). I'll update, check the changes and report back.
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post #22 of 50 Old 10-03-2013, 07:25 PM
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Ok, installed EStar 1.06.204 over the old VIP 1.05 version, things went smooth there. Noticed the new default delay and duty values. I have an 82" Mitsubishi DLP so had to adjust both and the polarity

For the duty cycle I pick the highest value I can without affecting the image (color and crosstalk). Which in my case is 120% (active glasses do take away from max luminance -take what you can get). I tried playing with the lower settings, but below 90-95% the picture darkens and color starts to shift. I do calibrate in 3D, and struggle to get above 5 ft-L in 3D with anything but a new bulb on bright (and they change with time).

With the range of delay you can actually find multiple points where the image is correctly setup, the difference is that the polarity is reversed (as expected). I pause on an image that has good colors and a section of bright white next black (or dark color). and move it up until all crosstalk (usually blue next to the white) is gone, with DLP you'll also see shifts in color as the delay moves between the "frames". I note the first delay setting where everything looks good and continue until the last delay setting before I just see a hint of crosstalk. Pick the delay in between the two points. Phillip if there is a another and/or better approach to set delay let me know.

Two settings I found optimal for my set are 1320 and 9570 (as expected for 120 Hz, about 8.3 ms). Now here's where it gets interesting. Using the first delay (1320) the polarity is reversed as Phillip mentioned (HD33 timing). Changing the polarity in the utility and then saving didn't work (tried it twice), it did save the delay and duty cycle. So rather than reverse it on the TV or mess with the emitter (it's a Monstervision), I simply set it to the next delay (9570), problem solved.

BTW even with black and white 3D movies I get practically no ghosting. With the Video essentials disc (v2), my set does excellent on the 3D tests (the frame delays were headache causing so I didn't mark what those results were as far as 1/8, 1/4 etc.)

I really like the utility, since you can sit at viewing distance and with a laptop and precisely adjust the settings (emitter adjustments seem cruder?).

One thing I would suggest is changing the minimum slider value on the delay from 20 to 0 or 50, since it goes in increments of 50 microseconds. Hope this helps someone but I have no clue how to set it for LCD/plasma.
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post #23 of 50 Old 10-21-2013, 01:36 PM
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Purchased Monstervision Max 3D sometime ago a couple of extra glasses and have had the dreaded battery charging resister issue on all of them. So I purchased two pair of the Estar America EGS6000 glasses. I am using the infrared receiver plugged in to the original transmitter that came in the Monstervision kit and the firmware on that device is 1.05.200. I have been having issues with EGS6000 shutting off/losing sync and the only way to have them resync is to push the power button. My original Monstervision glasses would on occasion lose sync but turning your head a bit would cause them to resync. Not so with Estar glasses as you have to push the power button. Has anyone seen this issue?

In addition I downloaded the upgrade utility from the Estar website and tried to update my transmitter to 1.06.xxx, but the update aborts and crashes about 1/8th of the way through. I had another Monstervision transmitter that I attempted the update on and had the same result. Any ideas on this and do you think the firmware update might resolve the issue I discussed above?

Thanks.
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post #24 of 50 Old 10-21-2013, 09:20 PM
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Purchased Monstervision Max 3D sometime ago a couple of extra glasses and have had the dreaded battery charging resister issue on all of them. So I purchased two pair of the Estar America EGS6000 glasses. I am using the infrared receiver plugged in to the original transmitter that came in the Monstervision kit and the firmware on that device is 1.05.200. I have been having issues with EGS6000 shutting off/losing sync and the only way to have them resync is to push the power button. My original Monstervision glasses would on occasion lose sync but turning your head a bit would cause them to resync. Not so with Estar glasses as you have to push the power button. Has anyone seen this issue?

In addition I downloaded the upgrade utility from the Estar website and tried to update my transmitter to 1.06.xxx, but the update aborts and crashes about 1/8th of the way through. I had another Monstervision transmitter that I attempted the update on and had the same result. Any ideas on this and do you think the firmware update might resolve the issue I discussed above?

Thanks.

Another member was having problems syncing his glasses with the emitter, and when he tried to update the emitter's firmware, it errored out. The emitter was defective and had to be replaced. You may want to consider doing that, since I've been using Bit Cauldron-sourced glasses and emitters (VIP, Optoma, and EStar) for well over a year and have never had any of my 8 pairs of glasses lose sync with an emitter yet.

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post #25 of 50 Old 10-22-2013, 06:17 AM
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Another member was having problems syncing his glasses with the emitter, and when he tried to update the emitter's firmware, it errored out. The emitter was defective and had to be replaced. You may want to consider doing that, since I've been using Bit Cauldron-sourced glasses and emitters (VIP, Optoma, and EStar) for well over a year and have never had any of my 8 pairs of glasses lose sync with an emitter yet.

Thanks Rolls, I was debating whether to order the Estar Starter kit with the transmitter and just hated to keep throwing money at these things but I guess it is worth a try. It really ruins the movie especially when you have guests that are not used to 3D and the glasses keep falling out of sync and they complain of the picture getting blurry. It is quite frustrating but it sounds like you have had great experiences. What projector are you using? I am using a Sony HW30ES so I have to used the infrared receiver plugged in to the transmitter.
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post #26 of 50 Old 10-22-2013, 10:53 AM
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Thanks Rolls, I was debating whether to order the Estar Starter kit with the transmitter and just hated to keep throwing money at these things but I guess it is worth a try. It really ruins the movie especially when you have guests that are not used to 3D and the glasses keep falling out of sync and they complain of the picture getting blurry. It is quite frustrating but it sounds like you have had great experiences. What projector are you using? I am using a Sony HW30ES so I have to used the infrared receiver plugged in to the transmitter.

We're actually using a REAR projector, a 12 year old Mitsubishi CRT RPTV.

Not to take business away from EStar, Amazon is selling the Optoma transmitter (interchangeable with the Monster, EStar and VIP ones) separately. So you may be able to reduce your expenditure in getting back in the game.

Gen1 transmitters have red/green LEDs, while the recent ones have red/blue LEDs. Other than that, they look identical.

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post #27 of 50 Old 10-22-2013, 12:08 PM
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^ Yes, my transmitters have red/green LEDs. Thanks for info on the transmitter.
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post #28 of 50 Old 10-22-2013, 01:34 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LVS View Post

firmware on that device is 1.05.200. I have been having issues with EGS6000 shutting off/losing sync and the only way to have them resync is to push the power button. My original Monstervision glasses would on occasion lose sync but turning your head a bit would cause them to resync. Not so with Estar glasses as you have to push the power button. Has anyone seen this issue?

In addition I downloaded the upgrade utility from the Estar website and tried to update my transmitter to 1.06.xxx, but the update aborts and crashes about 1/8th of the way through. I had another Monstervision transmitter that I attempted the update on and had the same result. Any ideas on this and do you think the firmware update might resolve the issue I discussed above?

Thanks.

On the upgrade crash - try a different PC or a different USB port or just give it 2-3 tries, you only need it to work once. I've seen and heard this intermittently but have not yet nailed it down to be able to say when it happens authoritative, like "If you use a USB 3.0 Port with Vista on a full moon it will crash."

On glasses going off - I've seen this happen periodically, like a reliable oscillation on and off, and it has always been fixed with either an upgrade or a "magic" IR Receiver position, which can be hard to find. I saw one TV (it was a Viera) where the magic position was to tape over the IR receiver, plug the BC100 into a particular USB port on the Panny, and the IR LED was causing voltage ringing on the USB voltage line that was getting picked up and making five bars of perfect operation. Any actual IR light would cause interference with the voltage ringing pickup.

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post #29 of 50 Old 10-22-2013, 02:08 PM
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^ Thanks Philip. I will try it a few more times. I did not change PCs but pretty sure I tried two different USB ports but I will try it again and try switching PCs as well. I have the IR Emiiter from the projector in the enclosed equipment rack on a side wall firing directly at the IR receiver and they are approximately 8-12" apart. I am not sure if this might be causing what you are referring to or not. I have the power to the emitter plugged in to a USB port on all an always on home automation box.

I went ahead an orderrf the Estar Kit with a pair of glasses and the newest emitter so hopefully this or combination of your suggestions will resolve the issues.
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If you happen to have an oscilloscope.... you can find out for sure if the problem is the emitter or the IR pickup with this:

1. Use this diagram of the VESA cable that also shows the pinout for the BC10 IR Receiver to probe the signal lines. If you have a 4-pin headphone cable splitter and male-to-male cable you can use the scope probe to check one of the two signal lines to find the IR signals without splicing anything.

2. Screencaps of what the signal from the Sony emitter should look like. One is zoomed out and one is zoomed in. The signal is the yellow line. If you didn't have a good signal before, you will be able to get one after you do this. This is from a Bravia with the same Sony IR Emitter gizmo used by that projector, so your image may vary.

3. If you have a good signal but you don't have good 3D viewing, post or PM me a scope capture.




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