DLP-link glasses changing eyes every few seconds - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 15 Old 11-06-2013, 05:44 PM - Thread Starter
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Was trying to watch Man of steel earlier using my HTPC, with a HD65 hooked up, via the VT-3DP decoder box and ive noticed that every 10 seconds or so the image goes out of sync, Im using Powerdvd 12 as the software player, when im on desktop and close one eye with the glasses on, you can see the image flip to what would be the other half of the screen (HSBS)

 

Also, not sure if this is related, but my active shutter glasses do not sync with the projector unless im looking directly at the projector, its like the sensor on the front of the glasses can only pick up the DLP link if the light is very bright, if i then look at the image the projector is showing on the screen, the glasses stop working even though they are not off, like its lost the signal.

The only way ive managed to combat this, is if i have my plasma screen (which is below my projector screen), on at the same time, then the glasses shutters work and i can view the 3d image on the screen, but again the image on the screen every 10 seconds or so, flips from one eye to the other, this is very distracting when watching with the glasses on and both eyes open; as it goes from 3D to rainbow blur back as it switches to the other eye to 3D (not sure if that makes any sense lol)

 

Someone else mentioned this in another thread, but its quite an old thread and didnt want to revive it. but there was no fix, other than removing their 3D-XL box and using a different player (that ive tried) any help would be much appreciated.

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post #2 of 15 Old 11-06-2013, 08:07 PM
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Try it with some legal (not bootleg) content, such as a factory 3D Blu-Ray in a standalone 3D Blu-Ray player or PS3. Not trying to make value judgments here, it's just that the factory disc is more likely to be correctly authored and less likely to cause image quality issues. That way you can start to pin down what's happening. An HTPC also has multiple things (player software, video card/drivers, HDCP and HDMI conformance, etc.) that can cause problems when viewing 3D content. A standalone player will eliminate these issues when troubleshooting.

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post #3 of 15 Old 11-07-2013, 12:40 AM - Thread Starter
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Im not playing a downloaded bootleg file, im playing from the Blu-ray 3D disk using the drive below and powerDVD12


http://www.overclockers.co.uk/showproduct.php?prodid=CD-005-OK&groupid=701&catid=10&subcat=314

If it helps, i get the same issue with crysis 3 in 3D mode. although thanks to Nvidia im having to use the Nvidia hack so to speak to get the game to switch to driver mode then HSBS to get the 3D content, i can assure you the game is 100% legit as well, I do not have a PS3, and my Xbox 360 has no 3D games as far as im aware, my projector is hooked up solely to my PC through this control box to my projector.

 

Im wondering if its actually to do with the HD65 not being factory shipped as 3D ready and instead relying on a firmware upgrade?

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post #4 of 15 Old 11-07-2013, 01:34 AM
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I wasn't trying to insult. I mentioned bootleg simply because that title has not been released in Region 1 yet, and your profile doesn't mention where you are. Many times bootleg editions are poorly authored copies, and can cause problems. Streamed/bit torrented bootlegs run through media players are also major minefields for proper functioning.

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post #5 of 15 Old 11-07-2013, 06:06 AM - Thread Starter
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 I managed to get it before it went on sale, thanks to my boss, and dont worry no offense was taken, its not often i get early releases, but when my boss said he could get one, i ripped his arm off for it. i gave up on downloaded films ages ago, especially when i moved to HD projector, something about the original when on a screen that size, looks so much better than any ripped film.

 

Right anyway, im still stuck with trying to get these glasses to stop flipping the eye's, or it could be the software? or even the box? aaarrggh

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post #6 of 15 Old 11-07-2013, 09:23 AM - Thread Starter
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Think ive figured out whats going on here, seems the signal isn't being sent fast enough, so basically i have 3D to start with, then it starts to show both pages together, then it de-sync's to the opposite eyes to the glasses then reverses back again on a continual loop.

Now this could be software related according to a few posts, im wondering if its actually to do with the HD65 at this point though, the specifications on Optoma's website state its a 1.3HDMI, the box i have is out put 1.4HDMI, Obviously the Optoma firmware update for the HD65 was for it to be paired with the 3D-XL which takes a 1.4 input and out puts to 1.3 the same as my projector.

Apparently iZ3D stops this eye flip happening with its new drivers, yet im unsure if this is working with Nvidia graphics cards.

No wonder 3D is having such a hard time taking off. it has to contend with not only multiple 3D formats, but also restrictions like HDMI port and also graphics card venders limiting what hardware can actually be used. its like everyone is trying to force it to fail before its actually had a chance to succeed.

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post #7 of 15 Old 11-07-2013, 11:59 AM
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Have you tried playing any other 3D content with your setup?

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post #8 of 15 Old 11-07-2013, 12:59 PM
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Reading on the other thread, you are feeding the converter HDMI 1.4 3D ("Auto") but the converter is set to receive HSBS? This looks wrong, it is probably messing up the picture and the DLP-link signal from the converter to the projector.
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post #9 of 15 Old 11-08-2013, 12:29 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Roussi View Post

Reading on the other thread, you are feeding the converter HDMI 1.4 3D ("Auto") but the converter is set to receive HSBS? This looks wrong, it is probably messing up the picture and the DLP-link signal from the converter to the projector.

Even if i by pass the box and try using software only (Nvidia 3D play) switch too 3D on the projector and use that as the main monitor, start up crysis 3, you can see it even worse, in the level, if you hold on eye closed you can actually see whats happening, it goes from left eye, to almost red / blue stereo as it feeds 2 images at the same time, then to right eye, with both eyes open, it goes from 3D to a jumbled mess, to wrong eye 3D then back again in a loop. like the software or projector isnt in sync, ive even tried to force the graphics card (660GTX) using the Nvidia drivers to keep its v-sync, ive tried disabling it. nothing seems to be working.

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Originally Posted by Rolls-Royce View Post

Have you tried playing any other 3D content with your setup?

 

Yes, other films, and PC games, the only thing that seems to work with out any issues is the Nvidia vision drivers using Nvidia play and the Nvidia test screen, so its certainly capable of not alternating the eyes, im pretty sure this is a bandwidth issue as there really isnt much to the test screen, just the Nvidia logo the Nvidia name and a room.

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post #10 of 15 Old 11-08-2013, 07:59 AM
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Can you borrow a standalone 3D player for troubleshooting? We need to get past any HTPC issues to see what else might be happening, and it's possible that the converter box may be acting up.

EDIT: Never mind. I just realized what Tesantia's problem probably is. Reading a listing on the 'bay for one of these, I see that they output frame sequential signals, the same as the VIP units. In order to successfully use this box, the glasses must be triggered on its sync signal (it is actually creating the output your PJ is showing), and not the nVidia 3D signal. What he currently has is 3D sync signals being generated at two different places in the signal chain, and he must use the one from closest to the display (the converter box). He needs different glasses and a matching transmitter that will plug into the sync port on the back of the converter box. The nVidia glasses only work when synced to the video card, and a frame sequential signal as output by the converter box in question will not trigger DLPLink. That has to be done by a checkerboard 3D signal.

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post #11 of 15 Old 11-08-2013, 10:22 AM
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3D Play is for HDMI1.4 3D displays, it should not work with the HD65 directly. You need a 3D vision setup for that.

Let me reiterate your options:

- PDVD for BR3D's (set on Auto for Source and Display) and 3DPlay for games feeding HDMI1.4 3D (frame-packed 2205p@24Hz) to the converter; converter set appropriately (not HSBS; not sure what the setting is, cannot find any information about it on the 'nets), feeding the projector with frame-sequential 720p@120Hz. The projector set to DLP-link 3D, to activate the sync flash. This is the primary setup.

or

- either getting and connecting a Nvidia 3D vision emitter (or emulating it) or replacing/adding an AMD card HD5000+. This allows connecting the PC directly to the projector and feeding it directly frame-sequential 720p@120Hz. PDVD set to "Nvision 3D" or "120 Hz sequential" for Display for Nvidia or AMD respectively. AMD needs third party software (e.g. DDD) for games.

or

- playing the files on BD3D with Stereoscopic Player (after circumeventing the DRM protection) in HSBS format to the converter; converter set to HSBS. Not sure about games.

First, test the projector and glasses with the last setup by playing a HSBS (Half-Side-by-Side) video from YouTube 3D in full screen or in PDVD or any other player.

Edit: a clarification after reading Rolls-Royce's last post. The above assumes use of DLP-link glasses synced to the flash from the projector. The Nvision 3D setup can use Nvidia glasses too. I have no idea if the converter has its own glasses and syncing signal, and how that works. In general, as long as glasses and syncing systems are not mixed, it should work one way or another.
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post #12 of 15 Old 11-08-2013, 12:42 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Roussi View Post

3D Play is for HDMI1.4 3D displays, it should not work with the HD65 directly. You need a 3D vision setup for that.

Edit: a clarification after reading Rolls-Royce's last post. The above assumes use of DLP-link glasses synced to the flash from the projector. The Nvision 3D setup can use Nvidia glasses too. I have no idea if the converter has its own glasses and syncing signal, and how that works. In general, as long as glasses and syncing systems are not mixed, it should work one way or another.

The converter box in question takes an HDMI 1.4 3D signal such as frame packed 3D Blu-Ray and converts it to HDMI 1.3 frame sequential that can be viewed on non-1.4 displays. In so doing, it generates its own sync signal that matches up with what is being displayed onscreen. It's why there is a sync port on the converter box. The frame sequential signal the box puts out means that it will not trigger a 3D-ready DLP into DLPLink sync mode, so DLPLink glasses won't work. He'll need IR or RF glasses with a matching transmitter to use that box.

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post #13 of 15 Old 11-08-2013, 02:53 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rolls-Royce View Post

The frame sequential signal the box puts out means that it will not trigger a 3D-ready DLP into DLPLink sync mode, so DLPLink glasses won't work. He'll need IR or RF glasses with a matching transmitter to use that box.
D

There is no DLP-link trigger or signal from the source (AFAIK, for any "3D-ready" display, as there is no "3D" flag in HDMI1.3). The DLP-link is manually switched on from the projector's menu, generated by the projector, and syncs with the input refresh rate (without distinguishing between left and right frame). It (and the glasses) will work with any input, frame-sequential 3D or not.

As long as the firmware is updated to provide the DLP-link syncing, DLP-link glasses should do fine. This why I suggested testing it with a Side-by-side video.
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post #14 of 15 Old 11-09-2013, 02:10 AM - Thread Starter
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This could be attributed to the surface im projecting the image on, as ive recently moved i haven't had a chance to put the screen up, if i point the glasses directly at the projector and press the on button, the glasses shutters activate, so they are obviously reading the 3D sync signal, if i then turn my head and point them at the wall i have it projecting on, the shutters stop working, or they work, but every 15 seconds the glasses flick the LCD's in the lenses off, then quickly back on again (very distracting) but i need to be with in 1.5 meters of the image.


Now, with the plasma screen on (situated under the projected image) and my xbox 360 on, the shutters activate on the glasses again, i have a strange feeling the glasses are actually syncing to the plasma display and not the projector, or they are at least picking something up off the plasma and xbox, because if i have the xbox off and the plasma on, i get no responce from the glasses, if i have the xbox on, i need to be either in a game with it paused, or in the xbox menu system, any other screen regardless, does not activate the glasses.

 

Im guessing projected surface is having an impact on the sync which is why they are going out of sync.

The problem isnt the 3D, its the sync of the glasses, now there is certainly a DLP link signal being sent, as they activate when the glasses are pointed directly at the projector. but as stated, soon as you turn your head to view the screen,  they stop "shuttering" and then eventually time off, unless you are pretty much on top of the image.

 

What i have tried is various settings on the converter box to no avail,

I've tried the Nvidia drivers using 3D play, again direct HDMI from the graphics card to the projector so no converter box interference; I get 3D through the glasses, as long as the plasma is on, but it has sync issues, where they slowly go out of sync then switch eyes in a continual loop.

 

Looks like I didn't need a 3D converter box after all in all this, as the Nvidia play drivers actually work on their own coupled with the projector to get a 3D image on the screen, albeit an out of sync image

 

The Nvidia test program (this one http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V4woa-Hodg4 although this is showing in red / blue 3D) works perfectly (not in red / blue but FS through the Nvidia play drivers) with out loosing sync. so its rather odd behavior.

 

So there are a few things im going to try.

 

1. putting my screen up and seeing if that sorts out the sync signal so my glasses are actually picking it up from looking at the projected image, because at the moment they are not.

 

2. Going to visit my friend who has a different Optoma 3D ready projector and seeing if we get the same issue, with and with out the converter box.

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post #15 of 15 Old 11-09-2013, 10:50 AM - Thread Starter
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Right guys, im now certain this is actually a glasses issue with it receiving the DLP link signal, here is how i tested that theory and how i came to my conclusion.

 

Decided to get the screen out and mount it, although i have a slightly brighter image, this did nothing for the sync issues, i thought id try this time with the plasma off.

 

So with projector as the main display and Nvidia 3D setting checked, using the 3D play drivers, power DVD set to auto, for both signal and display, projector on 3D DLP-Link.

 

If i set it to play Avatar and sit facing the projector and using a Mirror to see the image projected on the screen, i do not lose sync.

 

Next up

 

Decoder box on, set to HSBS setting, Monitor as main screen, Projector as secondary for movie viewing, again powerDVD set to auto on both 3D settings, sit facing the projector, using a mirror to view the screen, i do not lose sync.

 

So this seems to be a issue with the glasses not picking up the sync signal from actually facing the screen, they keep perfect sync if the light coming from the projector is hitting the sensor on the front of the glasses, the moment you face the screen, it drops sync, though i have found if i get the sync stated by looking at the projector and then stand around 5 inches away from the screen, it holds sync

 

Damn it. so whats a decent set of DLP shutter glasses that are sensitive enough to pick up the DLP link from the projector. At least i know now that the HD65 is perfectly capable of utilizing a 1.4HDMI signal even though the specifications screen on Optoma's website state its a 1.3HDMI in, this is good news for those using it, this also means its not a bandwidth issue from the 3Dbox to the projector. this ALSO means the 3D play drivers and powerDVD were enough and i actually didnt need the 3D converter box. though it is actually handy as its got 2 HDMI in's on it.

 

Need some decent glasses now with a sensitive sensor on it that will actually pick up the DLP link signal from the screen rather than facing the projector.

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