Samsung HW-C450 / HW-C451 "AudioBars" - Page 5 - AVS Forum
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post #121 of 205 Old 12-12-2010, 02:15 PM
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Normally you do not change the input on the receiving device (soundbar). The soundbar will play the mode that the output device (TV / Blu-Ray / DVD) send it. Your sound bar shows that it is capable of PCM, DD and DTS.

Two caveats.

One. Soundbar shows that it will only accept the digital modes via optical.

Two. If you have your devices all connected to the TV via HDMI and the TV to the soundbar, most TV's will only pass 2-channel DD due to DRM and copyright laws.

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post #122 of 205 Old 12-27-2010, 02:15 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by crosscourt View Post

My Samsung 2009 LED TV says:

"When the Home Theater receiver is set to On, you can hear sound output from the TV’s Optical jack. When the TV is
displaying a DTV(air) signal, the TV will send out 5.1 channel sound to the Home theater receiver. When the source is a
digital component such as a DVD / Blu-ray player / Cable Box / Satellite receiver (Set-Top Box) and is connected to the
TV via HDMI, only 2 channel sound will be heard from the Home Theater receiver. If you want to hear 5.1 channel audio,
connect the digital audio out jack on DVD / Blu-ray player / Cable Box / Satellite receiver (Set-Top Box) directly to an
Amplifier or Home Theater, not the TV."

I'm guessing the soundbar needs 5.1 info to simulate surround on its 2.1 speakers.
So does this mean for the best sounds, i need both xbox and htpc connect to the soundbar. But I will not have an optical out for the tv?


My Bluray player is part of my "HTPC" laptop. The laptop only has HDMI out, no optical out. So I have no way of passing the sound directly to the soundbar. What is the cheapest solution for this? I'd hate to have to go out and purchase a receiver just for this.

Incidentally, when I go to youtube videos from this same laptop designed specifically to test the surround sound they sound great. You can really hear the separation. Is this my imagination or is my Samsung LN46B750 allowing 5.1 to pass through because although the source is coming in over HDMI, it is not a DVD player but rather coming from my browser? How can I objectively confirm the soundbar is outputting virtual 5.1 and not just really good sounding 2.1?

Here is sound testing URLs I've been using:
www dot youtube dot com /watch?v=qlwXv9VXY80

and to test the Bass, this one...
www dot youtube dot com/watch?v=9oPZJH1Jgrc

(I am a new user and not yet allowed to post URLs. So just replace the 'dot' above with an actual dot and remove the spaces)
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post #123 of 205 Old 12-27-2010, 02:35 PM
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You probably have two possible choices for sound output.

Most laptops have standard analog output that you would connect to PC audio or other powered speakers. This works at line level 1v and should appear as a green mini phono jack. If this is the case, you could get a mini-phono to RCA R/L adapter, cable from Radio Shack, Amazon, Blu-Jean cables etc., and connect the R/L outputs to the analog input on the soundbar. This should pass either 4-channel or 5-channel sound to the soundbar.

Second choice is to connect the laptop to your TV via HDMI and then the TV to the soundbar via optical (digital) or analog (RCA) depending on what flavor output is available from your TV. This however will typically pass only 2-channel sound from most TV's.

In either case, the Samsung soundbar uses a synthisized version of surround which in many cases works very well. In theory, giving the surround chip more info, i.e. direct from the laptop, should result in better sound. You might need to play around with this to see just how much if any difference this makes in your particular setup.

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post #124 of 205 Old 12-29-2010, 07:24 AM
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Does anyone have any insight as to if and when Samsung will come out with the next generation of the C450 / 451 ?
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post #125 of 205 Old 12-29-2010, 10:09 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by drfreeman60 View Post

Normally you do not change the input on the receiving device (soundbar). The soundbar will play the mode that the output device (TV / Blu-Ray / DVD) send it. Your sound bar shows that it is capable of PCM, DD and DTS.

Two caveats.

One. Soundbar shows that it will only accept the digital modes via optical.

Two. If you have your devices all connected to the TV via HDMI and the TV to the soundbar, most TV's will only pass 2-channel DD due to DRM and copyright laws.

My setup is ---SamsungHWC450 connected via optical cable to TV. My bluray player is a PS3 conencted via HDMI to the TV. Should I be doing something different to get better sound?? I'm new at this stuff so I appreciate any advice.
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post #126 of 205 Old 12-30-2010, 04:00 PM
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I have a Samsung HW-C450 with connections via a Samsung TV. As others have said the TV feeds stereo PCM to the soundbar. The sound is very good but I really wonder if the sound from the Blu-Ray would be better if I ran an optical cable direct to the second optical input of the soundbar. This would provide DD 5.1 or DTS 5.1 audio to the soundbar. I don't have an extra optical cable to do an A/B test but perhaps one of you has done this and can confirm whether there is any difference in audio processing? Thanks!
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post #127 of 205 Old 12-30-2010, 04:21 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by reidaj View Post

I have a Samsung HW-C450 with connections via a Samsung TV. As others have said the TV feeds stereo PCM to the soundbar. The sound is very good but I really wonder if the sound from the Blu-Ray would be better if I ran an optical cable direct to the second optical input of the soundbar. This would provide DD 5.1 or DTS 5.1 audio to the soundbar. I don't have an extra optical cable to do an A/B test but perhaps one of you has done this and can confirm whether there is any difference in audio processing? Thanks!

id like to try this too, i might pick up an extra optical cable since they are fairly cheap and try it out.

edit: on second thought i could just hook the one i got directly to the blu-ray temporarily to try it... duh

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post #128 of 205 Old 12-30-2010, 09:21 PM
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It would be better to connect both then you can compare the TV (pass thru) input versus the Blu-Ray directly by toggling the input source. I haven't found anyone who has tried this. Samsung is not clear on whether this would make any difference but it might?
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post #129 of 205 Old 12-31-2010, 11:43 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by reidaj View Post

It would be better to connect both then you can compare the TV (pass thru) input versus the Blu-Ray directly by toggling the input source. I haven't found anyone who has tried this. Samsung is not clear on whether this would make any difference but it might?

Ahh I suppose I didnt think of that. Ive seen some people say that either way it doesnt make much of a difference how you have it hooked up.

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post #130 of 205 Old 01-05-2011, 05:59 PM
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I picked up a HW-C451 today for my LN55C630. I am really liking it so far. I do have one issue though.

The soundbar is hooked up directly from the TV via optical cable. I have selected external speakers from the audio settings on the TV so all the sounds is being up through the sound bar. However, now when I change the volume I get a message on the TV that says "Not Available". I assume this is because the TV and the Soundbar use the same remote codes for the volume.

Has anyone run into this? Any suggestions?

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post #131 of 205 Old 01-05-2011, 06:31 PM
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Nevermind I got it figured out. I had to change a setting in my Harmony One.

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post #132 of 205 Old 01-07-2011, 05:23 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TahoeDust View Post

I picked up a HW-C451 today for my LN55C630. I am really liking it so far. I do have one issue though.

The soundbar is hooked up directly from the TV via optical cable. I have selected external speakers from the audio settings on the TV so all the sounds is being up through the sound bar. However, now when I change the volume I get a message on the TV that says "Not Available". I assume this is because the TV and the Soundbar use the same remote codes for the volume.

Has anyone run into this? Any suggestions?

Yes this has been covered before. There is no way around it other than aiming the remote more towards the soundbar and away from the tv sensor.

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post #133 of 205 Old 01-07-2011, 08:51 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by abajetta2 View Post

Yes this has been covered before. There is no way around it other than aiming the remote more towards the soundbar and away from the tv sensor.

I was able to go into the controls for my Harmony and specify that the volume be controlled by the Amplifier (The Soundbar). This fixed it. I assume the soundbar's volume accepts either the standard samsung sound commands, which gives you the "Not Available" message, or a separate command unique to the soundbar. In the Harmony One program I just mapped the soundbar volume control buttons.

It works perfectly now, no message.

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post #134 of 205 Old 01-07-2011, 11:16 AM
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I was just wondering what other owners use as settings for the their soundbar. I am looking for one universally good sounding setting so I do not have to keep changing them based on content.

Can people please post what they are using? Effect, DTS, Smart Sounds, etc.

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post #135 of 205 Old 01-07-2011, 06:59 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TahoeDust View Post

I was just wondering what other owners use as settings for the their soundbar. I am looking for one universally good sounding setting so I do not have to keep changing them based on content.

Can people please post what they are using? Effect, DTS, Smart Sounds, etc.

Anyone? It seams like I just cant get it right. The voices seam a little to loud, but the action sequences are a little too loud...lol. Smart sound on kind of makes it too flat.

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post #136 of 205 Old 01-16-2011, 06:29 AM
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Maybe I'm being dense but I have a question concerning the Samsung HW-C450/451.

Here's my setup (or rather my wife and child's set-up upstairs):

Samsung HL-S5688W (only two HDMI inputs)
WII
Sony Blu-Ray (model unknown at the moment)
PS2
Comcast Cable

I just moved all this equipment and set it up yesterday as follows:

Comcast Cable via HDMI
Sony Blu-ray via HDMI
Wii via whatever cables come with it (Component? Red, White, Yellow RCA jacks)
PS2 same as Wii as far as cables are concerned

Soundbar would be connected via optical cable.

So, my question is, and perhaps a stupid one at that is....in the interest of the K.I.S.S. principle for the girls will the TV remote control the sound levels on all the equipment via the TV? They have enough trouble with the TV and cable remote as it is without adding a sound bar remote to the mix. I've tried buying a Harmony but my accountant squirms when I mention it. Money! She doesn't mind griping about all the remotes though .

I'll be happy to explain further if needed.

Thanks!

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post #137 of 205 Old 01-17-2011, 11:41 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Feralhog View Post
Maybe I'm being dense but I have a question concerning the Samsung HW-C450/451.

Here's my setup (or rather my wife and child's set-up upstairs):

Samsung HL-S5688W (only two HDMI inputs)
WII
Sony Blu-Ray (model unknown at the moment)
PS2
Comcast Cable

I just moved all this equipment and set it up yesterday as follows:

Comcast Cable via HDMI
Sony Blu-ray via HDMI
Wii via whatever cables come with it (Component? Red, White, Yellow RCA jacks)
PS2 same as Wii as far as cables are concerned

Soundbar would be connected via optical cable.

So, my question is, and perhaps a stupid one at that is....in the interest of the K.I.S.S. principle for the girls will the TV remote control the sound levels on all the equipment via the TV? They have enough trouble with the TV and cable remote as it is without adding a sound bar remote to the mix. I've tried buying a Harmony but my accountant squirms when I mention it. Money! She doesn't mind griping about all the remotes though .

I'll be happy to explain further if needed.

Thanks!
The only way to find out is to test. You may look at the Samsung TV menu to see if it offers variable output. Most newer TV's offer only fixed level output which means to control volume you either need to use a seperate remote or but a good universal remote.

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post #138 of 205 Old 01-18-2011, 02:44 AM
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One detail I omitted.....as it stands now the Cable remote turns the TV and cable off and on as well as controlling volume. So basically, they only need one remote for basic TV operation. The "input" button on the Samsung remote selects the source(s) so they have a two remote system when using Wii, Blu-ray, etc. Think I'll sneak in a Harmony or similar remote eventually.

Thanks!

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post #139 of 205 Old 01-18-2011, 09:30 AM
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I recently purchased the LN46C670 from Best Buy and have coupled it with the HW-C451 Sound Bar to improve the sound. I was assured by Samsung Customer Support that the two devices would work well together and that buying two Samsung products was my best option. Also, I bought the Sound Bar (rather than surround sound) to cut down on the number remote controls, because I was assured I would only have to use the TV remote. Unfortunately, that is note the case.

The individual products work well on their own. However, combined, there are significant problems. If the TV speakers are active there is an echo with the Sound Bar. Smart Volume and A/V Sync only go so far. If I disable the TV speakers and select External Speakers, the large error message "Not Available" appears every time I change the volume. Additionally, if I am watching Internet TV (the main reason I purchased the 670 model in the first place) and I change the volume, the TV quits out of the internet to show the Not Available sign. I then have to restart the internet and restart my application.

These two products should function better together. I understand the echo when the TV speakers are on, but if I'm only using the Sound Bar, there shouldn't be any drawbacks. The TV should not display an error message, especially if paired with another Samsung product. Also, the TV should not quit out of the internet unless desired by the user.

Numerous calls to Samsung support teams, both tier one and tier two, have been useless. I would love to know what Samsung is doing to remedy these problems, hopefully with a firmware update. A way to internally mute the TV speakers or allow the TV to recognize the Sound Bar would solve the problem. If nothing can be done, I'll likely return the products and opt for a different brand.
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post #140 of 205 Old 01-18-2011, 09:58 AM
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Go into the setup menu on the TV. Go to Speaker Select and choose External. Per your manual, this will disable the internal speakers as well as the volume and mute functions from the TV remote. Since this is a Samsung soundbar, the volume and mute may continue to work. If not, you should probably look into a universal remote like the Logitech unless you wish to contnue to use both remotes.

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post #141 of 205 Old 01-18-2011, 10:01 AM
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I am using the External speakers and the sound quality is fine. Unfortunately, whenever I change the volume it reads "Not Available" unless I want to just use the Sound Bar remote. Is there a way to program my RCN Synergy Remote to the sound bar? I tried yesterday and it didn't work. If I could have that remote only send a signal to the sound bar, but not the TV, it would work...I might try to return both and buy Sony instead...
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post #142 of 205 Old 01-18-2011, 10:21 AM
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Is your RCN remote programmable. Not sure about codes for the Samsung soundbar, but I am sure customer support from either RCN or Samsung should be able to help (try RCN first).

As info, buying equipment from the same manufactuer is no assurance of quick and easy compatibility. If you like your TV, you could easily change to either of the two Sony soundbars, CT-150 - CT-350. These would more than likely work better with your TV than the Samsung. They will work well with a Sony TV also.

By the way, do not trust Samsung customer support or Best Buy or other big box retailer to give you anything resembling accurate information when it comes to what will work well with what. Most of these poor people have no clue.

I am not sure what TV's Sony offers in the same size range. I do know the the Samsung C6** range of TV's has received much better reviews as far as picture quality than any of their more expensive LED backlighted sets. If memory server me correctly, Sony's best rated TV has been their less expensive 500 line this year.

Not sure if the RCN remote is new also. If so, you may want to check to see if it is returnable for a Logitech Harmony. The Logitech can solve all of your problems whether you keep your current setup or change to something completely different. Highly recommended.

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post #143 of 205 Old 01-18-2011, 10:29 AM
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I actually just spoke to Logitech -- is the Harmony remote worth it?
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post #144 of 205 Old 01-18-2011, 10:51 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jkmart323 View Post

I actually just spoke to Logitech -- is the Harmony remote worth it?

Yes. Depending on the number of components in your system, you could probably use one of their less expensive units. When programming the Logitech you tell it how you want your system to work. Example of one activity (as Logitech calls it) programmed on my remote.

Activity Name -

"Watch PVR" - when I select this the following happens:

Device -

Panasonic Plasma TV

Turns TV "ON"
Sets TV to HDMI-1
Sets all picture controls to work for the TV

Device - Scientific Atlanta HD-8300 Digtal Tuner / Recorder

Turns DVR "ON"
Sets input to "Cable IN"
Sets program guide and recorded list functions to DVR

Device - JVC-TH-BA1 - Sound bar audio system

Turns soundbar "ON"
Sets all volume controls for Soundbar
Sets input to "Digital 1"
Sets DRC to "MX"
Sets Surround to "Mode 1"

At this point, when I press volume, the Harmony automatically raises or lowers th volume on the Soundbar. When I select channel, it changes channel on the Comcast DVR. When I select "Aspect", it changes the aspect on the TV. It even allows macros for shutting things off. When I press "Off" non only does it turn each device off, I also have it programmed to "Mute" the soundbar. I have a grown son who works nights. He has two wonderful children age four and three, so he stops at the parents home to sleep when he gets off at 0630 each morning. To avoid shocking him with TV volume that would rattle the rafters due to some Blu-Ray being watched the previous night, it is good to know that anytime the TV might be turned on during the day time, the system is already at mute and the sound may be raised gradually so he can get his rest.

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post #145 of 205 Old 01-18-2011, 10:53 AM
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Okay, I ordered it. Sounds like it will solve my audio issues. Hopefully it can also control the Internet application on my Samsung TV.
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post #146 of 205 Old 01-18-2011, 11:00 AM
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It should resolve your issues nicely. Just as info though, unless for some reason you are totally sold on the Samsung soundbar, you may be missing out on some very good sound by not considering either of the Sony's or the JVC. I have had a brief in home exposure to the Samsung and heard nothing that was wrong with it which I consider praise. There are plenty of inexpensive home theater components that I do consider almost unlistenable. However, I have heard excellent sound from both Sony's (they sound almost the same to me, but my ears will be sixty years old later this year) and my current selection after auditioning a number of units (and owning plenty of others) is the JVC.

Anyway, good luck with the Harmony and may the remainder of your problems all be small ones.

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post #147 of 205 Old 01-18-2011, 11:01 AM
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Thanks for all your help. I'll update you in a few days when I am in Harmony heaven!
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post #148 of 205 Old 01-18-2011, 11:22 AM
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I heard the Sonys and neither one of them sounded as good as the Sammy. The Sonys sounded very bright , no where near the fullness of the Sammy. Again that's just my ears , for me none of the other sound bars compared to the Sammy when I heard them.
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post #149 of 205 Old 01-18-2011, 12:18 PM
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Quote:
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I heard the Sonys and neither one of them sounded as good as the Sammy. The Sonys sounded very bright , no where near the fullness of the Sammy. Again that's just my ears , for me none of the other sound bars compared to the Sammy when I heard them.

Listening is mostly subjective. My criteria is natural sound (dang hard to get from a soundbar). Different devices are going to sound differently based on room accoustics and device setup. To do a decent comparison you MUST be comparing the same (known) program material and NEVER base a comparison on what you hear (or see) in a retail store. I have never seen a single piece of audio equipment properly setup in a big box retail environment such as Best Buy, HH Gregg or Sears. Wal-Mart and Costco are even worse. Even the various Magnolia stores I have visited have absolutely no clue as to how to set up audio equipment for proper listening.

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post #150 of 205 Old 01-18-2011, 12:52 PM
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Originally Posted by drfreeman60 View Post

Listening is mostly subjective. My criteria is natural sound (dang hard to get from a soundbar). Different devices are going to sound differently based on room accoustics and device setup. To do a decent comparison you MUST be comparing the same (known) program material and NEVER base a comparison on what you hear (or see) in a retail store. I have never seen a single piece of audio equipment properly setup in a big box retail environment such as Best Buy, HH Gregg or Sears. Wal-Mart and Costco are even worse. Even the various Magnolia stores I have visited have absolutely no clue as to how to set up audio equipment for proper listening.

I hear what your saying but there aren't many settings other than sound field on a bar. It wasnt very hard to adjust on my own.They are all in the same environment and playing the same material , the bottom line is the Sammy sounded better by far to me.
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