According to cNets review, the new Panasonic soundbar has good bass without sub. I have listened to Yamaha and Vizio soudbars with and without attached subs and the sound is solid on either without. The sub does give more foundation when you actually have material with true low level sounds. The idea of a good bass driver or sub-woofer should not be to make low frequencies louder or more place more emphasis on them, but to extend the low frequencies. Many of the so called sub woofers have a big hump at mid-bass (100-140hz) to make them sound boomier without really enhancing the low frequencies.