Near impossible to get Sonos playbar to get 5.1 audio (from HDMI sources) - Page 2 - AVS Forum
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post #31 of 43 Old 04-03-2014, 07:17 AM
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as a point of reference, neither my years old Sony EX400-series and new Panasonic ST60 will pass 5.1 out the optical port unless using the onboard tuner or smart apps.  External HDMI inputs get down converted to 2ch PCM.  You either need to break out the optical using one of those combo HDMI switch devices or find a different soundbar that has HDMI inputs and outputs...this is what I did.  Although I can't say my ears can tell the difference.

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post #32 of 43 Old 05-19-2014, 01:48 PM
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Hi,

I recently bought the Sonos Playbar for my Panasonic 2013 ST60 and I'm wondering whether it's worth the extra money to invest in the Octava 4 x 1 HDMI Audio switch with ARC and Optical Audio output. I"ve been looking for some sort of subjective analysis of this across many forums and I can't seem to find any discussions centered on the Playbar's sound with and without tru DD 5.1.

It's worth noting that I'm currently using just the Playbar - I might purchase the sub - but I'm not interested in adding additional Sonos speakers since this set-up is in an open concept living room with no ideal place to position them, and I don't want to run in-wall wiring - which is why I went for the Playbar in the first place.

Does anyone who has the Octava switch have any feedback on how much better the sound is when using it to send DD 5.1 to the Playbar alone? CNET's review of the Playbar goes out of its way to state that it sounds dramatically better when receiving true 5.1 audio - but I haven't been able to find a true 5.1 Playbar set-up to listen to at any of my local electronic stores.

The thing is, I think the Playbar sounds pretty good now, but I can definitely hear some of the same criticisms I've read in other forums regarding vocals getting lost in loud action scenes when connected directly to the TVs optical out. I'm guessing that delivering true DD 5.1 to the Playbar would alleviate this to a degree - but I'm curious how dramatic it really is.

I would probably be connecting 3 HDMI sources including a Fios box, WDTV Live and the TV itself (so that I could send DD 5.1 from Netflix/Streaming Apps on the TV to the Playbar) to the Octava, then connect the Octava's HDMI out to my TV's ARC HDMI port and the Octava's optical out directly to the Playbar.

Any input would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks.
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post #33 of 43 Old 05-19-2014, 02:36 PM
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Parker81, I have a similar set up, Panasonic 2013 VT60 and Playbar and was rather obsessed with getting DD 5.1 whenever I could.  Within a few weeks I soon had a couple of Play 1s in the back and enjoyed that, and a couple weeks later added the Sonos Sub.


My feedback to you is that adding the Playbar was obviously a huge improvement over the rear firing built in speakers on the VT60.  Adding the rear channels was fun, and I enjoyed messing with the audio levels to begin creating a home theater sound field.  The ability to tweak that is still rather limiting but I expect Sonos will continue adding features and control with future software updates.

​Adding the Sub was as you may have read, really a dramatic improvement and I feel I'm pretty set.  The recent overhaul to the Sonos Control App for iPhone or iPad added some new capabilities so last week was a big week.

 

The "hobby" part of this now is shooting for DD 5.1 whenever I can because it's a big improvement in my opinion.  That's not to say the Playbar doesn't sound good without it, but it's a sweet enough experience to want it whenever possible.  To test it out, you can get DD 5.1 coming out of your Optical Line for any sources coming from the ST-60 like the Netflix App or Amazon Prime App if you have an account.  I don't use Amazon Prime Video myself so I can't say for certain, but I have been really impressed with the DD 5.1 coming from the Netflix App.  My wireless connection isn't too great for my VT-60 so I have some buffering issues, but when it's working, it works great and is a cool thing to enjoy.  Right now, as Apple TV owners know, the Netflix App on Apple TV is only pushing Stereo 2.0 so that's a bummer...

 

I'm guessing we both had the same criteria driving our choice:  I wanted a minimalistic setup with forward thinking technology, and I wanted to ditch wires or dust gathering equipment wherever possible.  Right now I've met all my goals with the wireless part, and the hobby part is "chasing the D", chasing the 5.1.

 

FYI, I've read elsewhere that an affordable option to consolidate your sources is the Monoprice 4x1 HDMI Switch on Amazon for about $85.  I haven't tried one, but it's on my wish list.  Since it's somewhat contrary to my desire to keep it simple, I've haven't crossed that bridge quite yet.  I am increasingly using my blur ray player less and less, so I only occasionally have to grab the one optical cable from the VT-60 and route it to the blu ray player.  To make that a simpler matter I guess I could buy a switcher.


Good luck!
 

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post #34 of 43 Old 05-19-2014, 03:47 PM
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Toltec21 — Thanks for the response — I didn't realize that Netflix and other streaming apps on the ST60 would output DD 5.1 via the optical out — I haven't actually watched anything on Netflix yet, I just assumed it wouldn't pass surround through - but that's good to know. I'll give something a listen tonight and make a final decision.

But, if I do go with a switch I'm leaning towards picking up the Octava that's been mentioned on here over the Monoprice 4x1 HDMI because it supposedly automatically switches to the right HDMI source - which would be worth it for me since I'm probably going to to be hiding the switch behind the TV. Can anyone confirm that?
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post #35 of 43 Old 05-19-2014, 04:17 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by parker81 View Post

Toltec21 — Thanks for the response — I didn't realize that Netflix and other streaming apps on the ST60 would output DD 5.1 via the optical out — I haven't actually watched anything on Netflix yet, I just assumed it wouldn't pass surround through - but that's good to know. I'll give something a listen tonight and make a final decision.

But, if I do go with a switch I'm leaning towards picking up the Octava that's been mentioned on here over the Monoprice 4x1 HDMI because it supposedly automatically switches to the right HDMI source - which would be worth it for me since I'm probably going to to be hiding the switch behind the TV. Can anyone confirm that?

 

If that's the case, the automatic switching, that would be a cool feature for the switching, and the ability to tuck it away somewhere.  I'll look it up myself to see what it's reported to do.

Since you are still Playbar only, let me know if you can compare the stereo vs DD 5.1 sound somehow and what you think about it.

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post #36 of 43 Old 05-23-2014, 10:15 AM
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I've been doing a lot of research on this, and this is what I've come up with. It is pretty simple so I'm probably missing something. Someone please tell me if this will work:

Problem 1: Most TVs will not pass-thru Dolby 5.1 audio through digital (optical) audio out if the device sending the audio is connected via HDMI. The Sonos Playbar only has digital (optical) audio in to connect to.

Problem 2: Sonos doesn't recognize DTS. Dolby 5.1 is as high as it goes. This is likely a greater problem with non-cable/satellite sources... Blu-Ray, gaming system, potentially downloaded movies, etc.

My situation: I want to create a wireless surround system with the Sonos Playbar, Sonos Play 3 wireless speakers, and Sonos wireless sub. This TV will be in the den and won't be used for gaming. It will be connected to either cable, Dish, or Direct TV with DVR. Right now, we plan to start with cable (I typically use one service until I get pissed, and then go with another...). We will have a Blu-Ray player. We also plan to have Netflix or something similar as we're planning to upgrade to a Smart TV.

Problem 1 solution:

It is likely that our TV will not pass-through 5.1 from HDMI connected devices (pass-through digital optical audio out). My plan is to get a simple optical switch (cost maybe $10 - $15), which would allow me to plug the DVR and Blu-Ray into the switch, which is connected to the Playbar, thereby by-passing the TV altogether. I would merely switch between the devices, depending on what I am using (hopefully I can program into universal remote). If the TV allows 5.1 digital audio out, I can use that.

Problem 2 solution:

The Samsung BD-F5900/ZA Blu-Ray will convert DTS to 5.1 for Blu-Rays. However, it will only pass-thru whatever format is on a DVD. I would assume that most DVDs would be older and hence, this wouldn't be a huge issue. Here is a link to the owner's manual (see page 62). http://downloadcenter.samsung.com/content/UM/201301/20130128133823310/02285N-BD-F5900-ZA-ENG-0128_BM.pdf . Now, I am really going to need a switch anyway, as the converted Blu-rays will have to get to the Playbar via digital optical audio out. Simply, there is no reason to get a TV that will pass-thru 5.1 because if I want to get guaranteed 5.1 from my Blu-rays, I am going to need the switch, or I am going to have to plug my Blu-ray player directly into my Playbar every time I am dealing with DTS.

The other part of this problem is potentially receiving DTS from Netflix/movie download service or cable/satellite box. First, it is my understanding that you can manipulate the sound format from many of the movie download services, which solves that. Second, I can probably rely on good 'ole Comcast to never send anything higher than 5.1. Even if they did, most movie watching would be from the Blu-Ray player or from a download. If I can't watch "Everybody Loves Raymond" or a football game in true 5.1 surround, I'm not sure I really care.

Does all of this make sense/will it work?
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post #37 of 43 Old 05-24-2014, 09:30 AM
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Toltec21:

I finally got a chance to really crank up the Playbar last night while watching Start Trek: Into Darkness over Netflix via my Panasonic ST60. I confirmed that the audio signal being sent to the PlayBar was DD 5.1 - and the difference was significant. The opening scene created an impressive sound field across my living room - it really sounded like I had additional speakers set up on the left and right. This morning I experimented with a bunch of movies played via Fios and my media server/wdtv live - all of which were up-converted to 5.1 by the Playbar - the resulting audio wasn't even close in my opinion. When the Playbar is receiving a true 5.1 signal it's head and shoulders above the up-mixed sound it delivers via stereo PCM - it's really a completely different experience.

I don't have a sub, and given how good the performance is without it I'm not sure I'll need it. While watching Star Trek the bass was pretty on point for me - but I can definitely see how a separate sub would make the audio delivered that much better - but this set-up is for my living room and another $700 for a bass is probably overboard. If/when I redo the basement I'll probably go all out on an audio system and reevaluate my needs then.

Given the results I'm probably going to order the Octava HDMI switch I mentioned earlier so that I can take advantage of the real 5.1 audio connection. I'm also thinking of adding my old PS3 to my setup for blueray playback and I believe the Octave will actually convert the DTS to 5.1 so the Playbar can play it.

I'll post another update once I have the Octava set up.

As an aside I was a little apprehensive about Sonos' incompatibility with airplay - but after using the app and addiing my music collection I actually like it much better. All of my music, and the music streaming services I use (Songza, Pandora, Hype Machine, Spotify) are right there in the app allowing you to easily switch between different audio sources or the TV audio. Plus, as someone who works in UX and Web design, I think it delivers a really great user experience. I'm staring to think about going all in with Sonos throughout the house.

Thanks again for the original feedback.
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post #38 of 43 Old 05-25-2014, 02:36 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jcjrogers View Post

I've been doing a lot of research on this, and this is what I've come up with. It is pretty simple so I'm probably missing something. Someone please tell me if this will work:

Problem 1: Most TVs will not pass-thru Dolby 5.1 audio through digital (optical) audio out if the device sending the audio is connected via HDMI. The Sonos Playbar only has digital (optical) audio in to connect to.

Problem 2: Sonos doesn't recognize DTS. Dolby 5.1 is as high as it goes. This is likely a greater problem with non-cable/satellite sources... Blu-Ray, gaming system, potentially downloaded movies, etc.

My situation: I want to create a wireless surround system with the Sonos Playbar, Sonos Play 3 wireless speakers, and Sonos wireless sub. This TV will be in the den and won't be used for gaming. It will be connected to either cable, Dish, or Direct TV with DVR. Right now, we plan to start with cable (I typically use one service until I get pissed, and then go with another...). We will have a Blu-Ray player. We also plan to have Netflix or something similar as we're planning to upgrade to a Smart TV.

Problem 1 solution:

It is likely that our TV will not pass-through 5.1 from HDMI connected devices (pass-through digital optical audio out). My plan is to get a simple optical switch (cost maybe $10 - $15), which would allow me to plug the DVR and Blu-Ray into the switch, which is connected to the Playbar, thereby by-passing the TV altogether. I would merely switch between the devices, depending on what I am using (hopefully I can program into universal remote). If the TV allows 5.1 digital audio out, I can use that.

Problem 2 solution:

The Samsung BD-F5900/ZA Blu-Ray will convert DTS to 5.1 for Blu-Rays. However, it will only pass-thru whatever format is on a DVD. I would assume that most DVDs would be older and hence, this wouldn't be a huge issue. Here is a link to the owner's manual (see page 62). http://downloadcenter.samsung.com/content/UM/201301/20130128133823310/02285N-BD-F5900-ZA-ENG-0128_BM.pdf . Now, I am really going to need a switch anyway, as the converted Blu-rays will have to get to the Playbar via digital optical audio out. Simply, there is no reason to get a TV that will pass-thru 5.1 because if I want to get guaranteed 5.1 from my Blu-rays, I am going to need the switch, or I am going to have to plug my Blu-ray player directly into my Playbar every time I am dealing with DTS.

The other part of this problem is potentially receiving DTS from Netflix/movie download service or cable/satellite box. First, it is my understanding that you can manipulate the sound format from many of the movie download services, which solves that. Second, I can probably rely on good 'ole Comcast to never send anything higher than 5.1. Even if they did, most movie watching would be from the Blu-Ray player or from a download. If I can't watch "Everybody Loves Raymond" or a football game in true 5.1 surround, I'm not sure I really care.

Does all of this make sense/will it work?

That's a pretty thorough accounting of your plan, and I didn't spot any discrepancies IMO.  I wouldn't worry too much about the Netflix DTS Content issue, because I have just never come across it. Regarding Blu Ray audio, as you said, hopefully you can set your audio output to DD 5.1 so that would solve that.  I know others are concerned about downgrading the audio from whatever lofty quality audio codecs there are, but I think some of us are driven by the Sonos Wireless Solution as a "governing" criteria, and then just plain enjoying the audio and video experience.

 

I haven't picked a switcher yet, so right now I am making a daily switching around of a few optical choices of what audio source between my Apple TV box, the TV output, and the occasional Blu Ray output.  At some point I think I'll have to make a choice of a switcher, though.

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post #39 of 43 Old 05-25-2014, 03:11 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by parker81 View Post

Toltec21:

I finally got a chance to really crank up the Playbar last night while watching Start Trek: Into Darkness over Netflix via my Panasonic ST60. I confirmed that the audio signal being sent to the PlayBar was DD 5.1 - and the difference was significant. The opening scene created an impressive sound field across my living room - it really sounded like I had additional speakers set up on the left and right. This morning I experimented with a bunch of movies played via Fios and my media server/wdtv live - all of which were up-converted to 5.1 by the Playbar - the resulting audio wasn't even close in my opinion. When the Playbar is receiving a true 5.1 signal it's head and shoulders above the up-mixed sound it delivers via stereo PCM - it's really a completely different experience.

I don't have a sub, and given how good the performance is without it I'm not sure I'll need it. While watching Star Trek the bass was pretty on point for me - but I can definitely see how a separate sub would make the audio delivered that much better - but this set-up is for my living room and another $700 for a bass is probably overboard. If/when I redo the basement I'll probably go all out on an audio system and reevaluate my needs then.

Given the results I'm probably going to order the Octava HDMI switch I mentioned earlier so that I can take advantage of the real 5.1 audio connection. I'm also thinking of adding my old PS3 to my setup for blueray playback and I believe the Octave will actually convert the DTS to 5.1 so the Playbar can play it.

I'll post another update once I have the Octava set up.

As an aside I was a little apprehensive about Sonos' incompatibility with airplay - but after using the app and addiing my music collection I actually like it much better. All of my music, and the music streaming services I use (Songza, Pandora, Hype Machine, Spotify) are right there in the app allowing you to easily switch between different audio sources or the TV audio. Plus, as someone who works in UX and Web design, I think it delivers a really great user experience. I'm staring to think about going all in with Sonos throughout the house.

Thanks again for the original feedback.

Parker81, I'm glad you were enjoying the difference...it's funny how often that difference is downplayed here on this Discussion Board as negligible or not detected via blind tests and what not.  I've enjoyed great audio gear for a long time, and yet don't think of myself as having "an ear", but that DD 5.1 difference with the Playbar is really huge!  That's also why I'm lurking around an Apple TV Thread here where Netflix is presently only putting out 2.0 sound.  It's comparatively flat and condensed sounding compared to when it's pushing the DD 5.1.

 

Also, when I first got the Sonos system in Mid-March, my "demo" movie for messing around with the controls has been the Star Trek reboot from 2009 via an ITunes HD Movie copy I was gifted.  It also has a broad and complex sound field of the Enterprise encountering the Bad Guys in the prologue.  The thought of it makes me want to to fire that up again, I never tire of that movie.

Reason I wanted to chime in is only yesterday I was playing around with the Sonos App (I really love the updated version) and messing with the controls of the Sub and the Surround Play 1s and I want to tell you further of my experience and even how it relates to the performance of the Playbar and takes it to another level.

 

I was watching Man of Steel with my son and also enjoying the prologue with the Krypton civil war and destruction, etc.  I was messing with the Sonos App on my iPhone, and in the Room Settings/ Advanced Audio/ Sub Settings I would just shut the sub off.  Of course it robs the soundtrack of about 40 or 50% of the experience because the sonorous low dramatic part of the orchestral score and sounds effects are missing...but even further, the high end of the central dialogue channels disappear.  Somewhere I had a discussion with someone how the basic settings of the Playbar are different depending on what other gear you have connected with it.  For odd reasons, I went Playbar first for a week or two, then I added the two rear Play 1s and it was a really marginal improvement or contribution.  I was waiting on a matte finish sub, so that was the only reason I waited for that last.  When I was finally united with my Sub, it was just a vastly improved, I repeat, vastly improved, experience.  

 

But to touch on my point earlier, with the Sub involved, it changes the audio field for the center channel into a more defined equalization that it just clearer and crisper to me.  I think without the Sub, when I shut it off, the Playbar's internal crossovers have to perform broader duties with where to send their energy to take over some of the bass, so the mid and higher ranges get a bit more buried in the sound mix.  A funny point to make because I'm not supposed to be an audiophile, but from the pure enjoyment perspective, the Playbar is doing just a lot better job for me with the Sub also doing its job.

 

I was also playing with the Surrounds, and shutting them off is a subtler experience.  They are definitely doing their job but I have to "listen" for it, unlike the Sub.  Thanks for letting me share my thoughts on this and let me know what you think about that Octava unit.

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post #40 of 43 Old 05-25-2014, 04:46 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Toltec21 View Post


I haven't picked a switcher yet, so right now I am making a daily switching around of a few optical choices of what audio source between my Apple TV box, the TV output, and the occasional Blu Ray output.  At some point I think I'll have to make a choice of a switcher, though.

I figured I would just get a cheap Monoprice or something similar as a switch. Supposedly the switch doesn't degrade the signal and my runs will be pretty short as everything will be together. I don't understand any advantage to an HDMI splitter or an expensive device to try to address this problem unless someone feels the switch is just too unsightly or they don't like the idea of having a manual switch. I think I can hide the switch pretty easily and will really only need to access for movies as most viewing will come from the cable box.
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post #41 of 43 Old 06-03-2014, 07:44 PM
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I just hooked up the Octava 4x1 HDMI switch +ARC and now I'm getting DD 5.1 regularly from my cable box, TV apps and WDTV Live (as long as the content streamed is encoded in DD 5.1, otherwise it's PCM Stereo).

Although expensive I really like the Octava - it's small enough to fit behind my wall mounted TV and it's been really easy to set up. I will say the smartscan isn't working because both the WDTV Live and Fios Box (The new VMS1100) keep a constant current through the HDMI port out, even when the respective boxes are 'off' or in 'standby'. In order for SmartScan to work the connected component can't constantly send a signal through its HDMI connection - when it does the Octava doesn't know which component was just turned on - it just appears that every component that does this is on all the time and doesn't know which one to switch to. But, since I'm only using the WDTV Live to stream movies via Plex it's not a big deal to use the Octava remote to switch the input.

I will say, now that I'm getting regular DD 5.1 sound from my Fios box I experience random 2-3 second audio drop outs on the Sonos. Apparently this has been an ongoing issue for Playbar owners who are piping DD 5.1 into their Playbars regularly.

This thread covers it in detail: https://ask.sonos.com/sonos/topics/playbar_audio_drops_out-d3dcu?topic-reply-list%5Bsettings%5D%5Bfilter_by%5D=all&topic-reply-list%5Bsettings%5D%5Bpage%5D=1#reply_14363487

It seems to stem from the playbar's inability to properly handle the DD 5.1 'wait' command or issues with handling DD Plus. I'd be interested to hear if anyone else is having this issue. Within the thread above one post points out that Sonos is aware of the issue and is working to fix it through a software update - but it's still happening for me.
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post #42 of 43 Old 06-10-2014, 01:06 PM
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Just wanted to follow up on this - I updated the Octava's firmware and it seems to have done the trick. I'm not getting any more audio drop outs. So, if anyone else is having that issue I'd recommend contacting Octava's support - they responded the next day with clear, detailed instructions on how to install the firmware updates and it seems to have worked.
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post #43 of 43 Old 07-08-2014, 05:43 PM
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I'm thinking of purchasing the Sonos Playbar, 2x Play 5's and the woofer to compliment a Samsung UN65HU8550 65-Inch 4K TV. I get the need for the TOS Link Switcher for the 5.1 Surround but unsure whether I should get the HDMI switcher as well or I'm better off putting all the HDMI sources directly into the TV. Seems like TOS standalone switcher would be cheaper (any recommendations?) but appreciate any advice if I'm missing something.

Thanks
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