Pioneer Speaker Bar - Possible Game Changer? - Page 13 - AVS Forum
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post #361 of 606 Old 10-24-2013, 05:15 PM - Thread Starter
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Prince

Sounds as if you have an axe to grind with Pioneer. I would guess that 85%+ people who purchase a soundbar do so for the primary reason of improving the sound from the usually deficient speakers that come with most flat panel TV's. It is a shame that the bar was released with the blue tooth issue. However, it sounds as if Pioneer is addressing the issue with a replacement of the entire bar and woofer which seems reasonable. Much better than a few other manufacturer's who more or less blow off this type of issue. It also seems that it only affects Apple devices. Blue tooth works fine on my Kindle and my son's Samsung smart phone.

If sound is important, this is an awesome value and should not be written off by a problem that only affects a very few users.

David

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post #362 of 606 Old 10-24-2013, 05:18 PM - Thread Starter
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Prince

Sounds as if you have an axe to grind with Pioneer. I would guess that 85%+ people who purchase a soundbar do so for the primary reason of improving the sound from the usually deficient speakers that come with most flat panel TV's.

It is a shame that the bar was released with the blue tooth issue. However, it sounds as if Pioneer is addressing the issue with a replacement of the entire bar and woofer which seems reasonable. Much better than a few other manufacturer's who more or less blow off this type of issue. It also seems that it only affects Apple devices. Blue tooth works fine on my Kindle and my son's Samsung smart phone.\n\nIf sound is important, this is an awesome value and should not be written off by a problem that only affects a very few users.

David

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post #363 of 606 Old 10-24-2013, 07:01 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by drfreeman60 View Post

Prince

Sounds as if you have an axe to grind with Pioneer
. I would guess that 85%+ people who purchase a soundbar do so for the primary reason of improving the sound from the usually deficient speakers that come with most flat panel TV's.

It is a shame that the bar was released with the blue tooth issue. However, it sounds as if Pioneer is addressing the issue with a replacement of the entire bar and woofer which seems reasonable. Much better than a few other manufacturer's who more or less blow off this type of issue. It also seems that it only affects Apple devices. Blue tooth works fine on my Kindle and my son's Samsung smart phone.\n\nIf sound is important, this is an awesome value and should not be written off by a problem that only affects a very few users.

David

Nah - I think his subconscious axe to grind is with you ironically. He's the kid a couple pages back that you SCHOOLED on the physics behind how a woofer works when he said the JBL was better because it had a "4x more powerful sub".

ROFLMAO! biggrin.gif
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post #364 of 606 Old 10-24-2013, 10:09 PM
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How can I tell if my bar is/isn't defective. I was streaming music to my phone and it wasn't obviously horrible sounding but it also didn't sound very rich either. I wasn't sure if it was the crappy mp3's i have on my phone or the bar. I'm using a Z10 as a phone btw.

Aside from that, no real problems pairing the subwoofer or my phone.
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post #365 of 606 Old 10-25-2013, 08:24 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by drfreeman60 View Post

Prince

Sounds as if you have an axe to grind with Pioneer. I would guess that 85%+ people who purchase a soundbar do so for the primary reason of improving the sound from the usually deficient speakers that come with most flat panel TV's. It is a shame that the bar was released with the blue tooth issue. However, it sounds as if Pioneer is addressing the issue with a replacement of the entire bar and woofer which seems reasonable. Much better than a few other manufacturer's who more or less blow off this type of issue. It also seems that it only affects Apple devices. Blue tooth works fine on my Kindle and my son's Samsung smart phone.

If sound is important, this is an awesome value and should not be written off by a problem that only affects a very few users.

David

I have nothing against Pioneer but releasing a product like this with this kind of hype is not only unacceptable but a complete disgrace to customers. Its like putting out a product with no power cord in the box, Im surprised Pioneer didnt do that too! Surprised they didnt have that trick up their sleeve.

I heard this bar and it sounds great but it looks absolutely horrific and something that came out in 1992. I got the Sony 660 instead for the same price and it kills this Pioneer, has a 2.5x more powerful sub and looks 1000000x better. The BT works amazing right out of the box, dont have to do go through Pioneers shananigans to fix something that should already be working out of the box!
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post #366 of 606 Old 10-25-2013, 08:26 AM
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Originally Posted by svt2nv View Post

How can I tell if my bar is/isn't defective. I was streaming music to my phone and it wasn't obviously horrible sounding but it also didn't sound very rich either. I wasn't sure if it was the crappy mp3's i have on my phone or the bar. I'm using a Z10 as a phone btw.

Aside from that, no real problems pairing the subwoofer or my phone.

When streaming from my iPhone only the right channel comes through. I confirmed by going to the audio balance control which, on the iPhone, is in the "Accessibility" settings. When I moved the L/R slider all the way to the left I got no sound. Several reports stated the issue was limited to Apple products (iPhone, iPad, etc.) Anyone else streaming from a Z10?

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post #367 of 606 Old 10-25-2013, 09:39 AM
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Well...this just re-affirms my decision- I will wait to do anything until the dust clears....
Me too. smile.gif

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post #368 of 606 Old 10-25-2013, 10:09 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Princeismyname View Post

I have nothing against Pioneer but releasing a product like this with this kind of hype is not only unacceptable but a complete disgrace to customers. Its like putting out a product with no power cord in the box, Im surprised Pioneer didnt do that too! Surprised they didnt have that trick up their sleeve.

I heard this bar and it sounds great but it looks absolutely horrific and something that came out in 1992. I got the Sony 660 instead for the same price and it kills this Pioneer, has a 2.5x more powerful sub and looks 1000000x better. The BT works amazing right out of the box, dont have to do go through Pioneers shananigans to fix something that should already be working out of the box!
It is too bad that this happened to Pioneer, but more specifically Andrew Jones. After all, it's his name on the product and the person doing much of the promoting. I'm sure he's none to pleased at the roll-out of his baby. I know I wouldn't be!

We can't be sure where the issue arises from, but all-to-often, it's speeding up the software implementation because of an arbitrary release date of the product. Unfinished, or incomplete software can haunt any product - especially from software firms. We see it all the time with companies that should know better, but products are still released with software issues. They're just hoping you won't discover them! It didn't take the users here very long to find this bug though. wink.gif

I'm probably a future owner of this soundbar, but am definitely waiting until I can be sure that the one I buy does not have it. Maybe Pioneer should publish a list of the affected unit's serial numbers. Unless they put a big Rev 1 on the packaging indicating it has been fixed. Is this available on their website?

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post #369 of 606 Old 10-25-2013, 10:27 AM
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Or add a USB port ala Vizio so we can update it ourselves. A few pennies vs a huge loss of revenu/potential customers over this issue.

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post #370 of 606 Old 10-25-2013, 12:26 PM - Thread Starter
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I guess if the Sony sounds 2.5x better and looks 1,000,000 times better I mad a bad choice.

I am a software and hardware engineer for over 40 years (any of you youngsters remember do not fold, spindle or mutilate). I know from recent experience that even extensive testing can't prevent this type of issue. I spent two weeks in the field testing very tough computers from my favorite TV manufactuer with wireless LTE chips. Everything worked perfectly. My company ordered a little over 1,500 of these very tough computers and low and behold, 260 units for the US didn't work as advertised. After spending three weeks dealing with the PC manufacturer, the wireless provider and the chip manufacturer we discovered the issue which we were able to resolve on half of the units with a small software/firmware change. The other half required replacement wireless chips meaning we had to ship the tough computers back to the lab, open them, change out the chip, seal the PC and ship back to the field. Even had I tested three or four additional weeks, the problem would not have shown up as the wireless chip manufacturer made changes but never notifed the wireless carrier, the PC manufacturer or me.

I don't believe that this reflects on Andrew Jones as he designed the speaker. Pioneer would have been smart to simply leave off the blue-tooth.

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post #371 of 606 Old 10-25-2013, 01:07 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by drfreeman60 View Post

...I don't believe that this reflects on Andrew Jones as he designed the speaker. Pioneer would have been smart to simply leave off the blue-tooth.
I'm sure AJ will weather this just fine. Still it's not the kind of thing you're happy about - even if he had nothing to do with the BT design portion, or not. When you're seen on TV advertising a product with your name on it, and this comes to light, it's a little embarrassing. Regardless of fault, and the fact that it should not detract from the overall sonic qualities of the soundbar, unfortunately it's a less than shining moment for him.

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post #372 of 606 Old 10-25-2013, 02:55 PM
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Originally Posted by Princeismyname View Post

I have nothing against Pioneer but releasing a product like this with this kind of hype is not only unacceptable but a complete disgrace to customers. Its like putting out a product with no power cord in the box, Im surprised Pioneer didnt do that too! Surprised they didnt have that trick up their sleeve.

I heard this bar and it sounds great but it looks absolutely horrific and something that came out in 1992. I got the Sony 660 instead for the same price and it kills this Pioneer, has a 2.5x more powerful sub and looks 1000000x better. The BT works amazing right out of the box, dont have to do go through Pioneers shananigans to fix something that should already be working out of the box!

I guess beauty is in the eyes and ears of the beholder. I am disabled and financially challenged as a result...home entertainment is a huge part of my life, and certainly the quality of my life. I never thought with my resources I would be able to achieve this level of quality. I had to replace one unit due to electronics issues unrelated to bluetooth...and I'm still not certain whether or not I will have to deal with that....but sitting on my lanai at sunset and listening to "English Suites", so clear and natural...I enjoy a nice chuckle and know it is well worth the effort...pour moi...
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post #373 of 606 Old 10-25-2013, 04:08 PM
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Originally Posted by Princeismyname View Post

I have nothing against Pioneer but releasing a product like this with this kind of hype is not only unacceptable but a complete disgrace to customers. Its like putting out a product with no power cord in the box,

That type of issue (while probably more easily fixable for the end user than malfunctioning Bluetooth)would have been a sign of genuine carelessness and apathy on Pioneer's part. I'm not happy about the BT issue either, but -- myself having a slight amount of experience coding in the past -- I can tell you that it isn't nearly that clear-cut. Comparing the two scenarios simply makes you look ignorant.

That said, even though I don't really use the feature...from what I can tell, I'm not convinced at this point in time that leaving Bluetooth off the soundbar would have been a viable option in this market. If it were aimed primarily at true audiophiles -- people who really only cared about sound quality as opposed to features -- and carried a price-tag that reflected that, I could see BT being left out. The pricing that it carries, however, seems to indicate that this is a product aimed at the masses, and the masses seem to prefer Bluetooth functionality be built directly into their sound products.
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post #374 of 606 Old 10-26-2013, 12:41 AM
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I don't know what everyone is being all "it's too bad" for. I knew this bar had this issue, and STILL bought it. They're going to replace it with an updated model. I've been used it and I already love the thing. Such a small little clean minimalist system and it sounds great. subtle led's on the front, uniform black colour, small little sub that is still pretty impressive and a great price point. seems like pioneer knocked this one out of the park. especially if you weren't one of the unfortunate to get one in the first COUPLE WEEKS before they caught the issue.
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post #375 of 606 Old 10-26-2013, 12:44 AM
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Originally Posted by MGoldbeck View Post

When streaming from my iPhone only the right channel comes through. I confirmed by going to the audio balance control which, on the iPhone, is in the "Accessibility" settings. When I moved the L/R slider all the way to the left I got no sound. Several reports stated the issue was limited to Apple products (iPhone, iPad, etc.) Anyone else streaming from a Z10?

Maybe a friend with an iphone can come confirm this for me. I'm pretty sure it'd affect any device that's being used over bluetooth though, it's just the iphone is easy to tell since you can adjust the balance.

And just for clarification, it's not playing the left channel from the source but it'd be playing the right channel through both sides still? or does it just play it out of one side of the bar?
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post #376 of 606 Old 10-27-2013, 12:40 AM
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ok, had a friend come over and play music on her iphone with a music app and when she goes to the left channel it doesn't play - so mines affected too. will music played over bluetooth sound considerably better when it's fixed?
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post #377 of 606 Old 10-27-2013, 01:16 AM
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Also, does anyone know how many subwoofer levels there is? If I was to press down to the bottom, how many "ups" until the sub is maxed out?
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post #378 of 606 Old 10-28-2013, 07:06 AM
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ok, had a friend come over and play music on her iphone with a music app and when she goes to the left channel it doesn't play - so mines affected too. will music played over Bluetooth sound considerably better when it's fixed?
Yes. Received my replacement Friday evening, set it up on Saturday; Bluetooth streaming now sounds great on the speaker bar! I'm pleased to report that movies, TV, CDs all sound just as good as they did when played through the speaker bar I sent back. FYI, the replacement unit is marked with a September 2013 manufacturing date, as opposed to the July 2013 date on my original speaker bar, so I would suspect that all bars with the earlier date will exhibit the Bluetooth problem, at least through iPhones.
-Michael

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post #379 of 606 Old 10-28-2013, 09:21 AM
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After lots of consideration, I decided to return my two speakerbars.  Even the slight constant hiss/hum from the subwoofer got to be too distracting, plus I wasn't pleased to find that settings all went back to default if main AC power was lost.  I tend to lose power pretty frequently.  Resetting after a power outage would have been less of an issue if there was some quantitative indication of where the subwoofer volume was set, but it's all qualitative (hit  + for more / - for less).

 

Thanks to all the contributors to this thread for lots of good information and opinion.

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post #380 of 606 Old 10-28-2013, 10:56 AM
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After lots of consideration, I decided to return my two speakerbars.  Even the slight constant hiss/hum from the subwoofer got to be too distracting, plus I wasn't pleased to find that settings all went back to default if main AC power was lost.  I tend to lose power pretty frequently.  Resetting after a power outage would have been less of an issue if there was some quantitative indication of where the subwoofer volume was set, but it's all qualitative (hit  + for more / - for less).

Thanks to all the contributors to this thread for lots of good information and opinion.

Damn, this probably could have been fixed with a firmware update as well. Maybe the new ones don't lose settings?

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post #381 of 606 Old 10-28-2013, 01:23 PM
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Does anyone know an Android music player I can download with balance controls? I haven't figured out an accurate way to test this to see if I have a problem or not...???
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post #382 of 606 Old 10-28-2013, 02:06 PM
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Does anyone know an Android music player I can download with balance controls? I haven't figured out an accurate way to test this to see if I have a problem or not...???
Suggestion: play a song that you know. If you get full stereo reproduction, you don't have the problem, at least not with that player. If you're playing something that should be in stereo, and it sounds like mono, you do. I strongly suspect that all models with the July manufacturing date have the issue - at least with Apple products. With my first speaker bar, I had the problem with my iPhone, but not with my Kindle Fire. Now, with the replacement, it works fine with both. You may very well not have the problem with your Android. If it matters to you, test it with an iPhone and use the balance control to check.

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post #383 of 606 Old 10-28-2013, 05:04 PM
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Found a player that supposedly has equalizer including balance controls = jetAudio at Google playstore. Will be downloading and testing, will advise my results. I know at least one person has stated they have not had this issue with a Kindle or Samsung device...makes me wonder....where/what is the problem if some devices are apparently immune? Anyone got a grip on the technical issues? Dr Freeman?
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post #384 of 606 Old 10-28-2013, 06:11 PM
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Does anyone know an Android music player I can download with balance controls? I haven't figured out an accurate way to test this to see if I have a problem or not...???

Poweramp! It's good enough of an app that I use it as my default music player on my Galaxy S3. It's $3.99 for the full program if you want to keep it, but its 15-day free trial for 15 would work fine if you just want to use it to test the Speaker Bar's bluetooth.
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post #385 of 606 Old 10-28-2013, 08:44 PM
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David,

 

Have you received and evaluated your Pioneer soundbar yet?  

 

I heard Scott Wilkinson & Leo Laporte also discussing this sound bar in early Sept before it came out and anxiously await your or their review.

 

It does sound quite promising at a very good price.

 

Best,

-deac

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post #386 of 606 Old 10-29-2013, 11:58 AM
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FYI, my replacement bar should be arriving any day now from Pioneer. I'll report back once I've had a chance to test it out.
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post #387 of 606 Old 10-29-2013, 12:38 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HerbertN View Post

Resetting after a power outage would have been less of an issue if there was some quantitative indication of where the subwoofer volume was set, but it's all qualitative (hit  + for more / - for less)

This exact aspect is actually the single biggest issue I've had with the design of the Speaker Bar in the long run -- and for the same reason, too. I hardly ever lose power where I live. What does happen, though, is that I'll accidentally hit the subwoofer's level control on the remote instead of the unit's general volume control. Having only a relative reference for adjustment may not be an issue if you aren't too picky (or if you have an ear for these things, as David seem to), but for someone like me who has fairly obsessive-compulsive tendencies about things such as this, it can be a bit annoying.

Anyway, only a minor issue for me. Still enjoying my unit, to be clear. smile.gif
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post #388 of 606 Old 10-30-2013, 12:45 AM
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Looks like Pioneer is commenting on some of the Amazon reviews that talk about the BT issue with the following:

Pioneer Electronics (USA) Inc. says:
(MANUFACTURER)
Dear XXXXXXXXXXX:
Thanks for your review of the Speaker Bar System! Yes, Pioneer has identified an issue with the audio processing of the Bluetooth music streaming feature of our SP-SB23W Speaker Bar.

For Amazon.com customers who purchased this product BEFORE October 15, 2013, please contact Pioneer Customer Service at 800-421-1404, Monday through Friday, between the hours of 10:30 A.M. - 2:30 P.M. and 3:30 P.M. - 7:00 P.M. Eastern (excluding holidays), and speak with our Warranty and Service Department. You can also contact our Customer Service team by email at: http://www.pioneerelectronics.com/PUSA/AboutPioneer/Contact+Us

We will arrange for your SP-SB23W to be returned to Pioneer and a corrective firmware update will be provided, at no cost to you and with shipping to and from Pioneer prepaid by us.

All SP-SB23W units purchased from Amazon.com AFTER October 15th will have the Bluetooth streaming update and will not have the audio processing issue.


So looks like it may be safe to order from Amazon...I think i'm going to pull the trigger!
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post #389 of 606 Old 10-30-2013, 12:55 AM
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Hmmmmm - Bestbuy actually has it for the same price - is there any way to tell from the outside if the unit is an updated model?
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post #390 of 606 Old 10-30-2013, 05:41 AM
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Also, does anyone know how many subwoofer levels there is? If I was to press down to the bottom, how many "ups" until the sub is maxed out?

/\... anyone?
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