Pioneer Speaker Bar - Possible Game Changer? - Page 19 - AVS Forum
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post #541 of 615 Old 01-06-2014, 10:17 AM
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Originally Posted by Doctego View Post

I'm not sure if you are deliberately using the AVR as an HDMI switch but I wouldn't use an active soundbar with an AVR. Can you just move the AVR to another room and connect your devices to your TV via HDMI and then your TV to the soundbar via optical?

I have been using the AVR as an HDMI switch, it sounds bizarre, but due to the way my TV has been mounted I'm unable to get additional cables (other than the single HDMI that is fed through the wall) to the back of it without some significant effort. I haven't hooked up floor standing speakers to the AVR because I have young children.

It sounds like if I have an HDMI switch, and am unable to feed anything other that HDMI into/out of my TV, the soundbar isn't the right option?

Thanks!

-JR
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post #542 of 615 Old 01-06-2014, 10:29 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by JuiceRocket View Post

Hi all,

I wound up purchasing this yesterday and am a bit confused how to set it up. My apologies, I will profess I have very little knowledge/skill in the audio field.

I currently use my receiver as a passthrough device for my DVR, blu-ray player, Xbox One, Xbox 360. I've put the cable set up below.

DVR ----> HDMI ----> Receiver ----> HDMI ----> TV
Blu-ray ----> HDMI ----> Receiver ----> HDMI ----> TV
Xbox One ----> HDMI ----> Receiver ----> HDMI ----> TV
Xbox 360 ----> Component + Optical ----> Receiver ----> HDMI ----> TV

With the speaker bar, do I set it up as follows (using DVR as an example)?

DVR ----> HDMI ----> Receiver ----> Optical to Speaker bar ||| HDMI ----> TV

Or is this not going to work?

Thanks, I'm sure this is super basic, but it's confusing to me!

-JR

I am unsure of your receiver, but the optical for most receivers is INPUT only, thus no output to the speaker bar.

You would have two options if you wish to continue to use your receiver for switching components.

1. If your receiver has pre-out jacks, connect these to the analog input on the speaker bar. This would allow you to control volume via the receiver's volume control.

2. Connect the output from your tape loop to the analog input on the speaker bar. This would send a fixed 1v signal to the speaker bar. Switching would be controlled via the receiver, volume via the speaker bar remote.

As Doctego said, your best choice would be to connect all of your components to your TV and use it as the primary switching system with either analog or digital output from the TV to the speaker bar.

David Freeman
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post #543 of 615 Old 01-06-2014, 10:36 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by RonF View Post

OK, now I'm frustrated and pissed with both my Roku 3 and the Pioneer speaker bar setup. Late last night I tried the headphone jack with the Roku remote with my good Sony MDR-7506 phones, and it seemed to be working for a couple seconds, then nothing. And from that point on NOTHING more on the remote was working either. Zippo. Nada. Could not cycle or go anywhere or bring up the menu any more.

Just like my speaker bar now. The only audible sound I can get out of it now when it's on is the damned POP when it comes on. What the heck is going on. Have had to go back into TV menu and turn its speakers back on.

Have to call Amazon about the Roku, and before calling them about the Pioneer speaker bar and having to pack all that up for a swap, maybe I should call Pioneer tech support?? Any of you guys have any ideas or things to check or try?


Thanks

Ron



Grrrrrrrr!!!

Ron - I have never heard a pop from the speaker bar. This sounds as if you do have an issue with the speaker bar. To verify this, you could disconnect all inputs from the speaker bar. If you hear a pop when you power on the speaker bar, definitely an issue with the bar. If not, you could troubleshoot by hooking other equipment to either of the inputs to see if it is something with a specific piece of equipment. If so, this could pose the identical issue with a replacement speaker bar.

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post #544 of 615 Old 01-06-2014, 10:41 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by sal9000 View Post

First, let me say that I have never, before yesterday, purchased audio equipment without first auditioning it. I've been reading this forum and am about half way through it; but the praise heaped on this system made me buy it even though I think it is ugly.

For music, for its size, it is very, very good. I just relistened to Joshua Bell Nobel Prize concert. The Egmont Overture was quite good but overall orchestra effect seemed a little weak. When Mr. Bell began the Tchaikovsky Violin concerto it seemed like really good speakers. The longer I listened the better they sounded. There appears to be a slight weakness in the upper registers on the very highest violin notes, but, other than that, it was an exceptional experience.

Then I played the Metropolitan Opera Turandot. Turandot is far and away my favorite opera. It still doesn't sound like being there but I couldn't detect any deficiencies in this disk that I have heard many times. Guleghina's upper register didn't suffer in any way. Giordani was very good but no Pavarotti.

Using the vocal enhancement selection on regular TV made it much more understandable than standard cable fare.

The only movie I have watched so far is Jurassic Park which I unwisely started while I was calibrating the system. My dog was laying next to the TV as he often does and when the first dinosaur footstep showed up he was terrified. No doubts that the subwoofer is up to par.

The only problem I have experienced so far is inability to connect my laptop to the system using bluetooth. I'm probably not doing it right. The demo on the Pioneer website is only a repeat of a preceding demo so it's no help. The answer may lie in the pages of this forum that I have not yet read.

More later if there is anything of interest to report.

Sal - so great to hear another music lover who appreciates what this unit can do. I profiled this unit againt my floor standing Infinity Beta 40's from 2001/2002 and the overall tonal balance was very close. What was missing was that overall clarity from the upper registers vs. the reference plus the smaller sound stage. Knowing that my better half wished the 50" floor standing speakers to be out of her living room, I felt the compromises from the speaker bar to be a small sacrifice. After nearly four months of listening, my opinion remains the same. Hope you continue to enjoy yours as I have mine.

David Freeman
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post #545 of 615 Old 01-06-2014, 10:56 AM
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Originally Posted by drfreeman60 View Post

I am unsure of your receiver, but the optical for most receivers is INPUT only, thus no output to the speaker bar.

You would have two options if you wish to continue to use your receiver for switching components.

1. If your receiver has pre-out jacks, connect these to the analog input on the speaker bar. This would allow you to control volume via the receiver's volume control.

2. Connect the output from your tape loop to the analog input on the speaker bar. This would send a fixed 1v signal to the speaker bar. Switching would be controlled via the receiver, volume via the speaker bar remote.

As Doctego said, your best choice would be to connect all of your components to your TV and use it as the primary switching system with either analog or digital output from the TV to the speaker bar.

Thanks David,

Maybe some good news then, I have a VSX-1121 which I believe has pre-out (sorry again, but I'm really not very knowledgeable in this field). I know it has an optical out.

So in order for me to have all device audio come through the soundbar (and NOT through the TV), I'd do the following?

1. Connect optical output from AVR to soundbar

Would that work? Would audio still go to the TV via the HDMI, or would the optical "overwrite" it?

-JR
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post #546 of 615 Old 01-06-2014, 11:05 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by hoopsrgreat View Post

Like I said a few posts up, I have the sp-fs51 Andrew Jones floor standing speakers hooked up to my sc-07 and they are amazing for any speaker, let along cheap 200 dollar speakers. My theater room has Marage 7.1 setup with an ED 18inch sub that I LOVE, and I really like these floor standers, but the wife wants speakers out of the LR, so I read these reviews and opinions on the Pioneer Soundbar and decided to get it. I hooked it into my sc-07 front preouts and ran mcacc. After running it, the sound is low.

Im assuming the vollume on the soundbar was way up when mcacc was ran, so Im going to turn the volume down and run mcacc again, as right now if i crank up my receiver to +2 (I have NEVER done that before) and turn up volume to max on the soundbar, it is not really that loud.

So far, this soundbar does not compare to the Pioneer floor standing cheap speakers I had in the LR. I hope with some tinkering I can improve it. Wish I could use the SC-07 amps.. but would probably fry these speakers.

I am NOT using the "Subwoofer" that came with the soundbar. Im using a 12inch klipsh rw-12d sub hooked into the sc-07 sub pre out.

I will report some more tomorrow, but as of this second, Im disappointed in the sound of this thing.

Hoops, you are probably doing the speaker bar a dis-service in setting it up in this manner.

The speaker bar is never going to be a substitute for full range speakers such as your Mirage or my recently retired Infinities. Even though the Pioneer had a very similar profile to my Infinities, it lacked the ultimate high end clarity associated with really good speakers (although it out-performed a number of extremely expensive book shelf speakers which I tested enroute to the Pioneer in this regard). Also, the sound field is negligible when compared to a good, properly positioned full range speaker as it extends only about three to four foot beyond the sides of the speaker bar and no more than twelve or eighteen inches in depth. The soundfield, like with any good speaker improves if the speaker is placed 1/2 meter to one meter from the rear wall, but for most TV setups, this is totally impractical.

The speaker bar will perform much better with sources supplied directly to it as opposed via your pre-amp or receiver. If you need your pre-amp or receiver for switching, you may get better results using the fixed (tape) output as opposed to the pre-out.

Finally, you will get better sound using the supplied woofer which is profiled to match the speaker bar as opposed to your Klipsch sub-woofer. The Pioneer unit is a true woofer with output from about 42hz to the crossover with the speaker bar at about 80hz. I have no experience with the Klipsch, but based on past experience with sub-woofer's, most are rolling off at about 60hz and have little or no output above 80hz or 100hz. The speaker bar and matching sub have active sixth order crossovers at about 80-85hz that are designed to compliment one another. Also, there is the issue of efficiency. If your sub-woofer is either more or less efficient than the speaker bar, once set up correctly at a reasonable volume, they will not track correctly as you adjust the volume either up or down. I had a pair of Boston Acoustics sub-woofers that I used with first a pair of Vandersteen 2c speakers and then with the Infinity Beta 40's. The input tracking for the subs required a great deal of tuning to get them to track correctly with first the Vandersteen's which had 1st order cross overs, then the Infinities that were somewhat less efficient and used 3rd order Linkwitz/Reilly crossovers needed even more massaging for proper tracking. I performed my sub-woofer setups using a sound-meter and test signals. This would have been somewhat less accurate attempting the same by ear.

My advice would be to first connect the soundbar directly to some source, TV, CD, Blu-Ray. Listen to some content and see if the basic sonic profile is to your liking. If not, then the speaker bar is not what you need. You can listen to the speaker bar by itself as it has sufficient bass output down to about 80hz. This probably covers about 80% of audio and video content if not listening to orchestral music or pipe organ. Connecting the woofer gives you the additional octave below 80hz and at that point, the speaker bar covers the entire audible spectrum minus the bottom octave.

Speaker bars are not designed to work in conjunction with sub-woofers and I have never seen a sound bar that came with one. Typically, a sound bar is supplied with a woofer. For best overall sound, the woofer should be placed reasonably close to the sound bar. They are not designed for corner reinforcement, to be placed behind the listener or any other strange set up.

Good luck. I spent nearly three years auditioning and owning various sound bars and book shelf speakers in the search for something that would allow me to replace my tower speakers but be good enough for music as well as video. It was more work than I imagined when I started the journey.

David Freeman
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post #547 of 615 Old 01-06-2014, 11:21 AM
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Thanks for the tip. I will give it a try and see what happens. I am in no way expecting this thing to sound like my theater, but those cheap Andrew Jones floor standers blew me away. I think I am just going to have to accept the fact I am never going to be satisfied with the sound of music in the main house as long as my wife forces me to use some substitute for floor speakers. By the way.. the whore reason for getting this thing is to get rid of speakers in site on the floor... if I can not place the supplied Pioneer woofer 9 feet away from the bar to get it behind a couch.... it will not be useful either.
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post #548 of 615 Old 01-06-2014, 11:23 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JuiceRocket View Post

Thanks David,

Maybe some good news then, I have a VSX-1121 which I believe has pre-out (sorry again, but I'm really not very knowledgeable in this field). I know it has an optical out.

So in order for me to have all device audio come through the soundbar (and NOT through the TV), I'd do the following?

1. Connect optical output from AVR to soundbar

Would that work? Would audio still go to the TV via the HDMI, or would the optical "overwrite" it?

-JR

JR

I checked and your receive does have digital output, so in theory this should work. I don't see anything in the manual as to whether something is required to direct output to this port. Looking at the drawings, it appears tha this port may be used strictly as a loopback to allow the receiver to do the digital processing instead of a CD, DVD or Blu-Ray player.

Are you wanting to retain the ability to use your TV speakers either seperately or in conjunction with the speaker bar?

I still believe that the most simple solution would be to use the analog tape loop output (Labeled: DVR/BDR) to the analog inputs on the speaker bar.

That appears to be one heck of a nice receiver.


David

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post #549 of 615 Old 01-06-2014, 11:31 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by hoopsrgreat View Post

Thanks for the tip. I will give it a try and see what happens. I am in no way expecting this thing to sound like my theater, but those cheap Andrew Jones floor standers blew me away. I think I am just going to have to accept the fact I am never going to be satisfied with the sound of music in the main house as long as my wife forces me to use some substitute for floor speakers.

Been There / Done That. However, I have now been listening to the AJ speaker bar for four months and it has been two months since my Infinities found a new home in the back of the guest room closet. I have listened to lots of great music via the speaker bar and it has truly brought both of us joy. The lack of comments concerning my time frame for getting those big, black ugly speakers out of HER living room are now a thing of the past. And truly, I love doing the small things that make her happy. She suffered through many years of my obsession with audio where vacations were planned around visits to audio shops to listen to moving coil and strain gauge phono cartridges, purchasing $ 2,500 turntables and re-tubing four vacum tube amplifiers plus a pre-amp at about $ 1,000 every other year or even powering up all of that vacum tube equipment and having to wait about four or five minutes for the circuits to stabilze so that I could then hit the switch connecting everything to the speakers. As we approach retirement, it is time for me to give in.

Besides, I keep hinting at taking a portion of my 401K at buying a 911. Since I am not ready to make this big move, I mention it only mildly. Do you know those people have a $ 400 option to have your key painted the same color as your vehicle. I dislike cursing, but (WTF)! Maybe saner minds will prevail when the time comes to replace my loyal Subaru.

David Freeman
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post #550 of 615 Old 01-06-2014, 12:34 PM
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Originally Posted by drfreeman60 View Post

Ron - I have never heard a pop from the speaker bar. This sounds as if you do have an issue with the speaker bar. To verify this, you could disconnect all inputs from the speaker bar. If you hear a pop when you power on the speaker bar, definitely an issue with the bar. If not, you could troubleshoot by hooking other equipment to either of the inputs to see if it is something with a specific piece of equipment. If so, this could pose the identical issue with a replacement speaker bar.

Thanks dr for getting back. Appreciate it . Due to your wonderful reports it seemed exactly what I would want to buy, and did, and am thrilled with it!!

When I set it up to synch with the sub, like others reported, the lights are not "blue" on both units when flashing or solid. Forget which was which. One wound up red and one blue. Plus I had no sound still after multiple tries until I tried powering down and back up, then I had it working.

To try what you just suggested I confirmed again the POP was there when powering on. Yes. Shut it off and then pulled the supplied optical cable out, that was coming from TV. It popped while doing that loudly as ever (def. the speaker bar) and that also turned it back on without me hitting that button first. Then I shut it down to see what happens coming on with no input to its optical input (not ever going to use the analogues). I got the POP again but at maybe 1/2 the volume.
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post #551 of 615 Old 01-06-2014, 12:47 PM - Thread Starter
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To all. If you read my posts, you know that I love music. Over the Christmas holidays, I had a rare surprise from a piece of equipment that was hiding in one of my closets.

This is not the Pioneer but a very inexpensive sound bar from Panasonic that I purchase last February. Nothing special one way or the other. Nothing to brag or complain about. Overall, the Pioneer is still superior sonically. However, if anyone likes music and misses the depth and breadth of a decent sound stage, the following review may be of interest. If not, press the ignore button as I am not suggesting anyone spend the money for this Panasonic unit unless available at an extremely good price. I saw someone said they had picked one of these up recently for $ 70.00. I consider that an advantageous price. I looked at Amazon the other day and they showed $ 200. I paid $ 160 for this and would not consider anything higher than that.

Anyway, this is the review that I just posted in one of the older threads for this unit. ***********************************************************
*********************************************************************************************************************************************************

This review is probably not what anyone shopping for a Panasonic soundbar (or for that matter, most others) is searching for, but I will relate this for the benefit of any who may find this of interest.

After reading several positive reviews of the HTB-20 last year, I purchased, on sale at Best Buy for about $ 160 last February. This was a stop gap replacement for a JVC TH-BA1, still one of the better bars from the last four or five years.

The Panasonic had decent sound for both audio and video sources plus being so low profile, my remote to the TV would aim over the soundbar and allowed me to be rid of my infra-red extender system that seemed to work only occasionally with the DVR from Comcast. The sound from the soundbar itself was quite good, nothing terrible. The supplied woofer was a little loose or muddy. Nothing like the crisp, fast bass that I had become accustomed to with the JVC (which incidently is still one of the best woofers I have encountered).

The Panasonic was replaced in September with the arrival of my Andrew Jones designed SB-23 speaker bar and woofer and resided until December 23 in a dark corner of the master bed room closet. At that time, I wanted to setup Christmas music from our sun-room. The music should be heard, but not the primary focus when family and friends were dining and opening presents.

I decided to setup the Panasonic with the woofer between two arm-chairs about 20" from the rear wall. The speakers were place on small tables behind the arm-chairs about 8' apart with the tweeters about two or three inches above ear-height and about 18" from the rear wall. This would be pretty much the setup for a pair of full range tower speakers in this room if not for the arm chairs already using this spot. I connected an old Panasonic DVD player for my output, burned a CD with about 160 Christmas songs, started everything, it worked and sounded okay, so I went about the business of assisting my wife with Christmas preparations.

The following morning, after tiring of the same Christmas songs by a dozen different artists playing in a loop, I placed a copy of Handel's Messiah peformed by the Mormon Tabernacle Choir accompanied by the Philadelphia Philharmonic conducted by Eugene Ormandy. The CD of this performance replaced the vinyl copy that I had owned since 1968 as this was truly a marvelous performance. So good, it spoiled me for all future iterations (so far) of "The Messiah". I cranked up the volume and started doing cleaning, vacuming and other chores as directed by my better half.

At lunch, we sat on the sofa, across (about 10') from the arm-chairs and ate ham sandwiches. However, at this time, we were presented with a true revelation.

These tiny speakers, I believe 3, 2 inch drivers per side, with a woofer moved far enough away from the wall to rid itself of the usualy sonic anomolies associated with placement too close to a wall, came alive and sounded wonderful. I did no audio testing, but heard nothing terribly out of place. What was so revealing about these tiny speakers was the sound stage. The tiny speakers literally disappeared. The sound stage seemed to extend at least five or six feet beyond the sides of the two small speakers and at least six or eight feet in depth. Based on what I had heard with the two units connected to form a single speaker or soundbar, this was both unexpected and delightful. Also, the muddy woofer, while still a little lacking in attack and detail was much more listenable than when set up next to a wall and cabinet in the family room and used for video duty.

If anyone still has this unit sitting around your house, you have a much better speaker than I would have ever thought. If you have the opportunity to place these similarly to what I have noted above, you should listen to these and enjoy.

Sorry for the boring story. Sometimes you discover hidden treasures in your own home and this was one of those experiences for me.

David Freeman
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post #552 of 615 Old 01-06-2014, 02:16 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by drfreeman60 View Post

JR

I checked and your receive does have digital output, so in theory this should work. I don't see anything in the manual as to whether something is required to direct output to this port. Looking at the drawings, it appears tha this port may be used strictly as a loopback to allow the receiver to do the digital processing instead of a CD, DVD or Blu-Ray player.

Are you wanting to retain the ability to use your TV speakers either seperately or in conjunction with the speaker bar?

I still believe that the most simple solution would be to use the analog tape loop output (Labeled: DVR/BDR) to the analog inputs on the speaker bar.

That appears to be one heck of a nice receiver.


David

Hi David, thanks for doing the detailed sleuthing.

I don't think there is any need to retain the ability to use the TV speakers either separately or in conjunction with the soundbar. My hope was the soundbar would become the solution for all audio coming from any of the devices attached (DVR, Blu-ray, Xbox's).

Will the analog option provide a level of audio at the same as the optical?

-JR
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post #553 of 615 Old 01-07-2014, 09:31 AM
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Originally Posted by svt2nv View Post

Thanks for the clarification.

One more problem I'm running into, and maybe someone can help me out, is that I can't play music via bluetooth to the soundbar via PC. I have successfully setup a few phones to play music over bluetooth to the soundbar so I got excited about being able to play music from my computer in the den to the soundbar in the living room, without having to load it to a phone first, so I went out and buy an A2DP bluetooth dongle for my PC and set it up without any problem. I then went to the soundbar and hit the bluetooth button, went back to my computer and the soundbar was recognized by windows 7. Everything seems to be working fine, the program says it's connected to use the soundbar as external speakers (shown below in printscreen) and I'm hovering at mid to high connectivity to the dongle/bar. HOWEVER, I can't seem to ge tit to play. I'm using winamp, which should work fine, but I also tried just playing music from youtube and also gave media player a try.

Any ideas?


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post #554 of 615 Old 01-07-2014, 10:55 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JuiceRocket View Post

Hi David, thanks for doing the detailed sleuthing.

I don't think there is any need to retain the ability to use the TV speakers either separately or in conjunction with the soundbar. My hope was the soundbar would become the solution for all audio coming from any of the devices attached (DVR, Blu-ray, Xbox's).

Will the analog option provide a level of audio at the same as the optical?

-JR

Honestly, NO. In reality, you would be hard pressed to hear a difference.

I have done tests with three differenct soundbars using digital and analog sourcing and was never certain enough to tell whether there was a difference or not.

I have a five year old Panasonic DVD player that includes sound output over HDMI, optical as well as standard analog RCA jacks. I have done rapid switching between inputs on soundbars as well as prolonged listenging and could not hear what amounted to a difference where I could say "Aha!". I have also subjected both my wife and 28 year old son to this torture, and although I am sure they were eager to escape my clutches, both said rather bluntly that they could not hear a difference. And to please leave them alone.

Yamaha DSP - analog, optical, HDMI -
Visio - analog, optical
Pioneer - analog, optical

For music, I am using a Sony DVD player with analog output to my Pioneer. For video sources, all feed into Panasonic ZT60 TV and TV output to Pioneer soundbar via optical.

If your ears are really good, you may hear some incidental sound or more than likely a texture of sound via optical that was not apparent via analog.

I have actually gotten to the point that if it sounds good, then I don't sweat the details.


One easy test might be to listen to either music or a movie with a robust soundtrack from your DVD or Blu-Ray player connected directly to the sound bar via optical. Five to fifteen minutes should be enough to give you a good idea of what you are hearing. Then connect the player to your receiver and the receiver to the soundbar via the tape output. Try to get the volume levels as close as possible via ear, harder to do than it sounds.

Decide if you can actually hear a difference.

One caveat. The ear is extremely sensitive to volume differences and more than one study shows that as little as .25db is detectable. An old audio salon trick was to take their switcher where supposedly all of the inputs to the speakers had been trimmed to match for customer a/b comparisons and raise the volume levels for speakers they were really trying to move by 2db to 3db. The louder speaker, no matter the accuracy, almost always sounded better.

Again, my advice, if you hook up everything and it sounds good, go with it and don't look back.

David Freeman
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post #555 of 615 Old 01-07-2014, 06:00 PM
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I searched several ways, so I apologize if I've missed it.

I just connected my sound bar. When I powered everything on, the televisions speakers and soundbar are not completely in sync, creating what sounds like an echo. I don't see any settings on the TV (Panasonic 65ZT60) to help this. The only output from the display is a Toslink, which is what I am using. There is definitely what sounds like an echo when the TV and soundbar are playing. Is this normal to have this with the speakers from the TV "on" at the same time as the soundbar?

Also, no matter what I try, I cannot get the subwoofer and the soundbar to pair/sync. I push both sync buttons and they rapidly flash but never turn solid. I have moved the sub all around, even to within a foot of the soundbar and nothing.... any advice? I got from ABT and they received it from pioneer last week (new stock).
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post #556 of 615 Old 01-07-2014, 08:08 PM
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long thread. i wanted to get my old mama nice 5.1 surround sound system but i think she will just get confused with using avr and will be calling me every hour with questions.

so i think im going to get her this soundbar system. one question before ordering, she has a blu ray player, direct tv dvr and roku. as far as connecting is it as simple as connecting the soundbar to the tv via optical? that way she will be able to use the soundbart with all the components direct tv, blu ray player roku or whatever else?
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post #557 of 615 Old 01-07-2014, 08:29 PM
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Originally Posted by cidsou View Post

I searched several ways, so I apologize if I've missed it.

I just connected my sound bar. When I powered everything on, the televisions speakers and soundbar are not completely in sync, creating what sounds like an echo. I don't see any settings on the TV (Panasonic 65ZT60) to help this. The only output from the display is a Toslink, which is what I am using. There is definitely what sounds like an echo when the TV and soundbar are playing. Is this normal to have this with the speakers from the TV "on" at the same time as the soundbar?

Also, no matter what I try, I cannot get the subwoofer and the soundbar to pair/sync. I push both sync buttons and they rapidly flash but never turn solid. I have moved the sub all around, even to within a foot of the soundbar and nothing.... any advice? I got from ABT and they received it from pioneer last week (new stock).

It's normal to have an echo when listening to both at the same time. That's why I never keep the TV speakers on when using external speakers. Not sure about your synching issue.

We are here to help you. Please help us to help you. If you provide incomplete information, at best, we can give you an incomplete response.
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post #558 of 615 Old 01-08-2014, 10:47 AM
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Anybody have the pioneer Sb 23w witH a VT 60. Thinking about getting this since the VT 60 has pretty good clearance between the stand base and tv. Want to see how it looks.
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post #559 of 615 Old 01-08-2014, 01:27 PM
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Originally Posted by Barana2080 View Post

Anybody have the pioneer Sb 23w witH a VT 60. Thinking about getting this since the VT 60 has pretty good clearance between the stand base and tv. Want to see how it looks.

may not work very well... your TV is 3.4" form table top.
the sound bar is 4.05" . it will cover most if not all bottom bezel including IR sensor on your TV
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post #560 of 615 Old 01-08-2014, 02:03 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by drfreeman60 View Post

Honestly, NO. In reality, you would be hard pressed to hear a difference.

Thanks David, I was able to get this to work coming out of my Xbox 360 (component cables + RCA cables), and watched a Netflix movie last night with soundbar.

Doing some more research in the receiver thread in this forum, it seems that I won't be able to have audio and video go through HDMI and optical or RCA.

I'll be returning the soundbar, not due to the audio quality, just because it doesn't work with the receiver.

Thank you again for all of your assistance.

-JR
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post #561 of 615 Old 01-08-2014, 02:09 PM
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Originally Posted by hoopsrgreat View Post

Like I said a few posts up, I have the sp-fs51 Andrew Jones floor standing speakers hooked up to my sc-07 and they are amazing for any speaker, let along cheap 200 dollar speakers. My theater room has Marage 7.1 setup with an ED 18inch sub that I LOVE, and I really like these floor standers, but the wife wants speakers out of the LR, so I read these reviews and opinions on the Pioneer Soundbar and decided to get it. I hooked it into my sc-07 front preouts and ran mcacc. After running it, the sound is low.

Im assuming the vollume on the soundbar was way up when mcacc was ran, so Im going to turn the volume down and run mcacc again, as right now if i crank up my receiver to +2 (I have NEVER done that before) and turn up volume to max on the soundbar, it is not really that loud.

So far, this soundbar does not compare to the Pioneer floor standing cheap speakers I had in the LR. I hope with some tinkering I can improve it. Wish I could use the SC-07 amps.. but would probably fry these speakers.

I am NOT using the "Subwoofer" that came with the soundbar. Im using a 12inch klipsh rw-12d sub hooked into the sc-07 sub pre out.

I will report some more tomorrow, but as of this second, Im disappointed in the sound of this thing.

That's probably because you're not connecting it right. It's not designed to connect to an AVR or amp. It's designed to connect straight to your HDTV, using the included sub.

Have you run it that way?

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post #562 of 615 Old 01-08-2014, 02:23 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Barana2080 View Post

Anybody have the pioneer Sb 23w witH a VT 60. Thinking about getting this since the VT 60 has pretty good clearance between the stand base and tv. Want to see how it looks.

Barana

Mine is connected to a ZT60 with the same stand. Currently both are mounted within a cabinet. For about three weeks while the cabinet was being built and painted, both were on a console, ZT60 on its stand, speaker bar on the little rubber stands that came with it. Never had an issue with the remote. I guess a lot could depend on your angle of reference when aiming at the TV.

Also, I was using a Logitech Harmony remote which seems to have a broader infrared dispersion pattern that the supplied remote from Panasonic.

Try it. If it doesn't work, return it.

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post #563 of 615 Old 01-08-2014, 02:24 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Luisfc1972 View Post

long thread. i wanted to get my old mama nice 5.1 surround sound system but i think she will just get confused with using avr and will be calling me every hour with questions.

so i think im going to get her this soundbar system. one question before ordering, she has a blu ray player, direct tv dvr and roku. as far as connecting is it as simple as connecting the soundbar to the tv via optical? that way she will be able to use the soundbart with all the components direct tv, blu ray player roku or whatever else?

If you connect everything to the TV, the TV to the speaker bar via optical (or ananlog), you will have sound with all of your sources.

David Freeman
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post #564 of 615 Old 01-08-2014, 02:27 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cidsou View Post

I searched several ways, so I apologize if I've missed it.

I just connected my sound bar. When I powered everything on, the televisions speakers and soundbar are not completely in sync, creating what sounds like an echo. I don't see any settings on the TV (Panasonic 65ZT60) to help this. The only output from the display is a Toslink, which is what I am using. There is definitely what sounds like an echo when the TV and soundbar are playing. Is this normal to have this with the speakers from the TV "on" at the same time as the soundbar?

Also, no matter what I try, I cannot get the subwoofer and the soundbar to pair/sync. I push both sync buttons and they rapidly flash but never turn solid. I have moved the sub all around, even to within a foot of the soundbar and nothing.... any advice? I got from ABT and they received it from pioneer last week (new stock).

Cid

Not sure about the problem with synching.

The ZT60 does not offer a convenient way of turning off the speakers. Or at least I have not found one.

However, if you are controlling volume from the speaker bar remote, and, per Panasonic, mute the sound from the TV, that will resolve the echo issue.

I use a Harmony remote to control everything, so that is not an issue at our house.

David Freeman
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post #565 of 615 Old 01-08-2014, 02:45 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by [Irishman] View Post

That's probably because you're not connecting it right. It's not designed to connect to an AVR or amp. It's designed to connect straight to your HDTV, using the included sub.

Have you run it that way?

Using the pre outs on the AVR sends an untouched signal to the speaker bar... just like if I was sending the signal straight from the Tv to the speaker bar... should not make a bit of difference... but just for shits and giggles, I will run the signal directly from the tv to the bar and see what happens. Regardless... no way is this thing going to compare to floor standing speakers.
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post #566 of 615 Old 01-08-2014, 02:54 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by hoopsrgreat View Post

Using the pre outs on the AVR sends an untouched signal to the speaker bar... just like if I was sending the signal straight from the Tv to the speaker bar... should not make a bit of difference... but just for shits and giggles, I will run the signal directly from the tv to the bar and see what happens. Regardless... no way is this thing going to compare to floor standing speakers.

If you are using pre-outs, you are not sending an untouched signal to the speaker bar. If you wish to use the AVR as your switcher, you would need to send audio from a fixed level output such as tape or DVR out.

In many instances you are right that the speaker bar will not compare with a GOOD full range speaker. The speaker bar is a good full range speaker, but due to the limitations of placement, and dispersion, the sound is always going to come from a more or less fixed area. Small sound stage, little depth.

You would however be surprised at how good the speaker bar can sound if placed as you would a full range floor standing speaker. If you have a way to pull the speaker bar away from the rear wall at least 18", better at 24" and have the woofer directly under it, the sound stage will open up greatly, especially the depth. Not practical for a setup with a TV set. I had the chance to play with my speaker bar set up in this manner for about three weeks while awaiting completion of a cabinet for my new TV. Very revealing.

I assume that your full range speakers are pulled into the room. Depending on the speaker design, most sound their best when at least 2' to 3' from any wall and probably a few inches off the ground. Another reason my wife wanted my full range Infinities out of her living room.

David Freeman
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post #567 of 615 Old 01-08-2014, 03:22 PM
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I think there is an issue for sure. I have done everything I can think of and the subwoofer will not communicate with the soundbar. I am going to have to return it.
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post #568 of 615 Old 01-09-2014, 03:30 PM
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Who knew that picking up a Andrew Jones 2.1 Pioneer Speaker Bar for a second television set would be such an ordeal...

First Speaker Bar arrived and the speaker bar itself would not enter into the sync mode to sync/pair with the woofer/subwoofer.  Its manufacture date was November 2013, when it arrived it had a back dot on the bar code of both the box and the speaker bar itself.  One of the screw heads on the back of the speaker bar looked completely stripped out and a few of the others appeared to have less damage.  There were a couple of nicks in the vinyl finish on both the speaker bar and the woofer/subwoofer.  Obviously this speaker bar had some form of factory fix performed on it, too bad it didn't work.  By the way we didn't order a re-manufactured unit, it was listed as new but either way it didn't work so we exchanged it for replacement.

Second Speaker Bar arrived, it too had a manufacture date of November 2013.  This one did not have any black dots, damaged screw heads or finish nicks.  However, similarly the speaker bar went into sync mode but the woofer/subwoofer would not.  All the woofer/subwoofer would do is illuminate the power LED and make a thump...thump...thump sound, the sync LED didn't even light up.  Strike two, this one was exchanged for a third unit.

Third Speaker Bar arrives, manufacture date of October 2013 and had no black dots or other signs of damage like the first.  Third speaker bar synced perfectly with the woofer/subwoofer and no mono or other issues streaming from current model iOS device.  We're thinking "great, this ones a keeper" so we mounted it below the television and setup the woofer/subwoofer level to where it should be for flat response.  Now a problem, two days later we notice a very obvious distortion in the right channel only while watching YoYo Ma's recent performance on PBS.  We confirmed the next day that the distortion is there on the right channel only for all program sources; DVD's, Blu-rays, CD's, Over-the-Air and streaming.  So we then tried hooking it up using the analog inputs instead of the optical S/PDIF but no luck the distortion is still there so we contacted Pioneer to start the replacement process.  The distortion was most prominent in the frequency range of acoustic guitar and/or cello but even noticeable on voice interviews.  It definitely sounded like a blown speaker or tweeter on the right channel.  A day after the replacement process was under way we unplugged both units for a spell then plugged them back in and S-U-P-R-I-S-E the distortion is no longer there!!!  We then checked all the previous sources again and sure enough the distortion is gone completely.  We called Pioneer to cancel the replacement which hadn't yet been shipped and explained what happened.  Then we asked to be transferred to their technical support department who was not aware of this happening before but did confirm it is plausible that disconnecting power could fix an issue like this, apparently the distortion was caused by either a microprocessor or DAC glitch within the unit.  I haven't seen mention of this type of issue in this entire thread but has anybody else experienced this??? 

It sure would be nice to be able to contact Andrew Jones directly to covey the issues involved with the roll out of this product bearing his name especially since he is heavily promoting this product himself through the demonstration videos and interviews, etc.

In conclusion: The Andrew Jones Pioneer 2.1 Speaker Bar System is ultimately a nice solution for our application of a second set sound system but its sound is certainly no replacement for our high end home theater setup which is our primary viewing.  We can recommend the Andrew Jones 2.1 Pioneer Speaker Bar System for a second set application with the CAVEAT that you need to be prepared to deal with receiving defective units more than once.  A black dot or later manufacture dates are no guarantee of a functional system and finally the microprocessor or DAC can glitch causing distortion that sounds like a blown speaker or tweeter.  If you are willing to deal with these types of aggravations then by all means pick one up but don't expect it to be of the same quality of a serious full home theater sound system.  Now of course we didn't expect the Andrew Jones Pioneer Speaker Bar to be of the same caliber as our home theater and only mention this for anyone that might be thinking it could as some posts in this thread have implied.  The product is made in China by the way, it is not labelled as such on the Speaker Bar or the Woofer/Subwoofer but the box displays made in China.  Unless the SNAFU's are corrected so others don't have these issues; this product roll out is fated to be a company embarrassment for Pioneer and Andrew Jones whose name is all over this.  Most people would give up on Pioneer after receiving two defective units and move on to something from another manufacturer instead.

Whimsically speaking, in equating designer names to sound quality; the sound of Andrew Jones' 2.1 Pioneer Speaker Bar is closer to the sound of a Henry Kloss System than the sound of a Bob Carver System.
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post #569 of 615 Old 01-09-2014, 03:51 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by markmar View Post

I am struggling with programming the remote, the unit does not seem to work with my tv's rf based remote. (lgla 7400) this is a motion based smart remote so I use my older directv remote for functions requiring numerical input. Has anyone successfully found a remote code with directv that this unit can learn based on the pairing process Andrew jones lays out in the pioneer YouTube video.

Thanks,
Mark


Confirmed, the Andrew Jones 2.1 Pioneer Sound Bar could not learn commands from our LG Magic Motion Remote nor from the basic LG remote either.  Using the Pioneer remote is not intolerable though.  Wish it were light colored with black letters and just a little bigger like the credit card sized remote with our old Bose Acoustic Wave table radio in the kitchen.  For our second set application that house guests will be using too the simplicity of it is a nice feature that won't intimidate guest users.  It was quick and easy to memorize all the button locations, its remote operation is a bit awkward though as you don't have any form of visual representation when adjusting levels up or down like most folks are used to with their own televisions.

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post #570 of 615 Old 01-11-2014, 11:53 PM
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Originally Posted by cidsou View Post

I think there is an issue for sure. I have done everything I can think of and the subwoofer will not communicate with the soundbar. I am going to have to return it.

 

 

Definitely a problem and would appear to be an ongoing issue, we had two units shipped to us that had problems syncing speaker bar to woofer/subwoofer.  Kinda surprising this late in the product roll out, based on our experience be prepared you may get a replacement unit with issues too.

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