Pioneer Speaker Bar - Possible Game Changer? - Page 7 - AVS Forum
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post #181 of 606 Old 09-30-2013, 06:11 PM - Thread Starter
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Sid

The Pioneer basically simplified my setup. My devices, TIVO and Blu-Ray are connected to the TV via HDMI. The TV to the Soundbar via optical. On my Panasonic ZT60 all sound from connected devices is reduced to PCM 2-ch audio on output. The Pioneer being a 2 channel device eliminates the necessity of attempting to recover all of the sound from a recording or soundtrack by having everything channeled first throught the soundbar.

I also have a DVD player connected to the TV via Component (RGB) with the audio output direct to the soundbar via analog (RCA) cables. The DVD player to the soundbar makes a conveninet way to play CD's and MP3's and occassionally an old B&W movie. I discovered a setting on the DVD player (Panasonic from about 2006) that allows for 24p (psuedo 24P?) output to the TV. This is perfect for playing back horror moves from the 1930's such as Frankenstein or the Mummy with Karloff, The Wolfman with Lon Chaney, Jr. or Dracula with Lugosi. With the TV set to play back 24p it gives reminds me of the flicker from seeing some of these movies when I was younger being replayed at a local neighborhood theater.

I like the sound of Def Tech speakers (many designed by AJ).

When looking for a solution pleasing to my ears and my wife's aesthetics, I found some very small towers from Def Tech as well as some small towers from B&W, both under 30" tall compared to 44" of the Infinities. They both sounded good during an in store demo. When I showed the wife, I finally got it through my head that she wanted the Infinity speakers from our sun room retired and something that would either be invisible in that room or something suitable inside the cabinet from the family room housing the plasma television.

I auditioned and did some comparisons with the YSP-2200 during 2011 and was very impressed. At $ 800.00 it sounded much more alive than the other YSP's costing more than double the price. I came very close to purchasing the YSP-2200 but declined as it was honestly not much more accruate on music than the JVC that was in my home TV set up at that time.

David.

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post #182 of 606 Old 09-30-2013, 08:22 PM
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David - Thanks for your comments on the soundbar. I think it's safe to say you're sold! Your enthusiasm shows. biggrin.gif I haven't made up my mind about the bar yet, I have a penchant for first generation equipment - even if that means the occasional nit and bug. Subsequent versions almost always are of lesser quality. I think it's fair to say, there'll be a purchase soon. smile.gif It's really good to hear such positive comments. So far, you're the best advertising Pioneer and AJ could have hoped for. Are you sure you're not getting secretly paid? wink.gif

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post #183 of 606 Old 09-30-2013, 09:42 PM
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How does this compare to the 1SR or YSP3300 in terms of sound quality, its about 1/3 the price....

 

thanks.

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post #184 of 606 Old 10-01-2013, 06:46 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by drfreeman60 View Post

Sid

The Pioneer basically simplified my setup. My devices, TIVO and Blu-Ray are connected to the TV via HDMI. The TV to the Soundbar via optical. On my Panasonic ZT60 all sound from connected devices is reduced to PCM 2-ch audio on output. The Pioneer being a 2 channel device eliminates the necessity of attempting to recover all of the sound from a recording or soundtrack by having everything channeled first throught the soundbar.

I also have a DVD player connected to the TV via Component (RGB) with the audio output direct to the soundbar via analog (RCA) cables. The DVD player to the soundbar makes a conveninet way to play CD's and MP3's and occassionally an old B&W movie. I discovered a setting on the DVD player (Panasonic from about 2006) that allows for 24p (psuedo 24P?) output to the TV. This is perfect for playing back horror moves from the 1930's such as Frankenstein or the Mummy with Karloff, The Wolfman with Lon Chaney, Jr. or Dracula with Lugosi. With the TV set to play back 24p it gives reminds me of the flicker from seeing some of these movies when I was younger being replayed at a local neighborhood theater.

I like the sound of Def Tech speakers (many designed by AJ).

When looking for a solution pleasing to my ears and my wife's aesthetics, I found some very small towers from Def Tech as well as some small towers from B&W, both under 30" tall compared to 44" of the Infinities. They both sounded good during an in store demo. When I showed the wife, I finally got it through my head that she wanted the Infinity speakers from our sun room retired and something that would either be invisible in that room or something suitable inside the cabinet from the family room housing the plasma television.

I auditioned and did some comparisons with the YSP-2200 during 2011 and was very impressed. At $ 800.00 it sounded much more alive than the other YSP's costing more than double the price. I came very close to purchasing the YSP-2200 but declined as it was honestly not much more accruate on music than the JVC that was in my home TV set up at that time.

David.

David - thanks again for a detailed response. for some reason in my mind I am thinking that lack of HDMI on the soundbar is not good. I plan to hand my tv on the wall and will need longer hdmi wires to go from my other components (blue ray , game consoles etc to the tv i guess).

How does the music streaming from bluetooth work, does the tv need to be on?

Also, since I don't know the technicalities, is it good that its had optical connection or is hdmi connection is better?

Since you have listened to the YSP 2200 and have the pioneer, do you think the pioneer does a good job of creating the 5.1 surround.

I am more interested in getting that surround sound feeling, like a car whooshing from the left to the right side, feeling like the sound is coming from the back etc.
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post #185 of 606 Old 10-01-2013, 09:48 AM
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I have had no problem connecting my iPhone to the Speaker Bar via Bluetooth. Sound quality is good (considering that I'm playing MP3s.) However I noticed at least one review on Amazon complaining that only one channel (the right channel, in this case) is connecting when pairing with an Apple device. Again, nothing I've noticed but I'm wondering if anyone else has seen this issue. And, no, the TV does not have to be on.
-Michael

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post #186 of 606 Old 10-01-2013, 12:19 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mattdude View Post

I listened to this soundbar today and was not impressed at all. The subwoofer looks like Mario's block that he forgot to get a mushroom out of. The subwoofer was working correctly and had no presence. The soundbar was just average and sounds like the LG and samsung soundbars below $300. I did like the way the soundbar looked. The klipsch sb-1 blows this soundbar away. I felt a need to post because I watched the hour long Andrew Jones interview and saw the hype on here saying its a "game changer". Buy the sb-1 and this soundbar and I know which one you will return.

The klipsch sb-1 does sound good but doesn't have any bluetooth and no way to stream music??

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post #187 of 606 Old 10-01-2013, 12:19 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sid369 View Post

David - thanks again for a detailed response. for some reason in my mind I am thinking that lack of HDMI on the soundbar is not good. I plan to hand my tv on the wall and will need longer hdmi wires to go from my other components (blue ray , game consoles etc to the tv i guess).

How does the music streaming from bluetooth work, does the tv need to be on?

Also, since I don't know the technicalities, is it good that its had optical connection or is hdmi connection is better?

Since you have listened to the YSP 2200 and have the pioneer, do you think the pioneer does a good job of creating the 5.1 surround.

I am more interested in getting that surround sound feeling, like a car whooshing from the left to the right side, feeling like the sound is coming from the back etc.


I don't think the Pioneer soundbar does 5.1 sound. I believe its only stereo (2.1).
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post #188 of 606 Old 10-01-2013, 12:21 PM
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Is the Pioneer speaker bar ported anywhere?

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post #189 of 606 Old 10-01-2013, 02:11 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jasonn B View Post

Is the Pioneer speaker bar ported anywhere?

No port on the speaker bar itself. There is a port on the woofer.

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post #190 of 606 Old 10-01-2013, 03:01 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MGoldbeck View Post

No port on the speaker bar itself. There is a port on the woofer.

Ok, very cool. I will be mounting a sound bar recessed into my mantle and don't want one that is ported.

Similar to this:




It's funny how many "are". Are the better sound bars typically non ported?

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post #191 of 606 Old 10-01-2013, 08:12 PM
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I'm thinking about grabbing one, I can get one at cost through a friend which is just shy of 300 CAD, but I'm leaning towards onkyo's 2.1 system called the ls3100, just because the setup will look much better. I'd like to know which one sounds better, has more power... just all around better. There is so many good reviews on this soundbar that it seems like s safe bet but all the amazon reviews on the ls3100 are really good too.
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post #192 of 606 Old 10-02-2013, 05:35 AM
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Also, since the speaker bar is on the bigger side, would it be okay (soundwise) to have the speaker bar on a stand like this, below the TV? Stand at the top is 22".

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post #193 of 606 Old 10-02-2013, 06:32 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by svt2nv View Post

Also, since the speaker bar is on the bigger side, would it be okay (soundwise) to have the speaker bar on a stand like this, below the TV? Stand at the top is 22".
Warning: Spoiler! (Click to show)


Hello,

Do you know who makes this stand? Thanks.
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post #194 of 606 Old 10-02-2013, 10:26 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by svt2nv View Post

Also, since the speaker bar is on the bigger side, would it be okay (soundwise) to have the speaker bar on a stand like this, below the TV? Stand at the top is 22".

That is essentially my set-up and while tilting the speaker bar was a bit tricky, it works and sounds great.
-Michael

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post #195 of 606 Old 10-02-2013, 10:31 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by marooned99 View Post



Hello,

Do you know who makes this stand? Thanks.

Right-click image; select "Search Google for this image"; result: http://www.amazon.com/Sonax-B-051-LMT-Milan-60-Inch-Component/dp/B0071IMNYA/ref=pd_sxp_grid_i_0_2

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post #196 of 606 Old 10-02-2013, 12:50 PM
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Originally Posted by Jasonn B View Post

The klipsch sb-1 does sound good but doesn't have any bluetooth and no way to stream music??

You realize how easy it is to add bluetooth to any soundbar? I would not base my soundbar decision on this unless you have nowhere to put one of these:

http://www.amazon.com/HomeSpot-NFC-enabled-Bluetooth-Receiver-System/dp/B009OBCAW2/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1380743323&sr=8-1&keywords=bluetooth+receiver

http://www.amazon.com/Logitech-Wireless-Speaker-Bluetooth-980-000540/dp/B004VM1T5S/ref=sr_1_3?ie=UTF8&qid=1380743382&sr=8-3&keywords=bluetooth+receiver
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post #197 of 606 Old 10-02-2013, 01:04 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MGoldbeck View Post

That is essentially my set-up and while tilting the speaker bar was a bit tricky, it works and sounds great.
-Michael

I got a nice surprise- Amazon upped my shipping to Fedex 2 day- unusual for them to do on a Hawaii shipment, and I am expecting delivery this afternoon!

When I looked at the manual, it appeared that the rubber feet facilitated tilting the bar...but MG's post makes me wonder. Since the bar would block my remote I am planning to locate on the shelf below...which means it will be ~12" below my screen...ideally an upward tilt of 10-20 degree's would be nice. Whatever, i expect to be in sound heaven soon and that is part of the fun, playing with setup!
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post #198 of 606 Old 10-02-2013, 01:48 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by svt2nv View Post

Also, since the speaker bar is on the bigger side, would it be okay (soundwise) to have the speaker bar on a stand like this, below the TV? Stand at the top is 22".


SVT - No issue mounting the bar in your stand. The feet that come with the bar make it very easy to redirect the sound upwards.

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post #199 of 606 Old 10-02-2013, 01:50 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jwf2tao View Post

I got a nice surprise- Amazon upped my shipping to Fedex 2 day- unusual for them to do on a Hawaii shipment, and I am expecting delivery this afternoon!

When I looked at the manual, it appeared that the rubber feet facilitated tilting the bar...but MG's post makes me wonder. Since the bar would block my remote I am planning to locate on the shelf below...which means it will be ~12" below my screen...ideally an upward tilt of 10-20 degree's would be nice. Whatever, i expect to be in sound heaven soon and that is part of the fun, playing with setup!

I said "tricky" not impossible - the rubber feet help quite a bit but are not perfect, imho. 10 degrees should be no issue. I'm pretty sure mine is tilted about that, perhaps a bit more. I'll measure when I get home and report later. I hope the speaker bar exceeds your expectations! Have fun!!
-Michael

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post #200 of 606 Old 10-02-2013, 01:53 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jasonn B View Post

Ok, very cool. I will be mounting a sound bar recessed into my mantle and don't want one that is ported.

Similar to this:




It's funny how many "are". Are the better sound bars typically non ported?

Ported or non-ported has nothing to do with sound quality. A port may be added to either increase speaker efficiency or lower the LF cutoff (lowest frequency) or a combination of both. There are mathematical principles that determine how this should be done. The unfortunate situation is that most (90%+) speakers are not designed with any of these criteria. With soundbars especially, this places the Pioneer in very lofty territory.

By the way, the same principles apply to a closed box as a ported box. Different formula required.

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post #201 of 606 Old 10-02-2013, 01:59 PM
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Originally Posted by drfreeman60 View Post

SVT - No issue mounting the bar in your stand. The feet that come with the bar make it very easy to redirect the sound upwards.
David: I was expecting rubber feet more like those pictured in the manual with what appears to be the possibility of a sharper upward angle. Mine are more uniform with a very slight curve making an angle of much more than 10 degrees or so, well, a bit tricky. Do yours match the manual?
-Michael

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post #202 of 606 Old 10-02-2013, 02:00 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sid369 View Post

David - thanks again for a detailed response. for some reason in my mind I am thinking that lack of HDMI on the soundbar is not good. I plan to hand my tv on the wall and will need longer hdmi wires to go from my other components (blue ray , game consoles etc to the tv i guess).

How does the music streaming from bluetooth work, does the tv need to be on?

Also, since I don't know the technicalities, is it good that its had optical connection or is hdmi connection is better?

Since you have listened to the YSP 2200 and have the pioneer, do you think the pioneer does a good job of creating the 5.1 surround.

I am more interested in getting that surround sound feeling, like a car whooshing from the left to the right side, feeling like the sound is coming from the back etc.

Sid - based on sonic memory from 2011, the pioner does a better job of reproducing music and I believe movies and audio sound tracks.

The Pioneer is strictly 2-channel. No simulated surround. If this is a criteria, the Yamaha is defintely the better choice.

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post #203 of 606 Old 10-02-2013, 02:08 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kbhasin View Post

How does this compare to the 1SR or YSP3300 in terms of sound quality, its about 1/3 the price....

thanks.

Have not heard either, so no opinion. The other two bars are simluated surround. The Pioneer is 2-channel.

My guess based on previous experience with both companies (still own a Yamaha YSP) the Pioneer will be the more accurate transducer. Neither Yamaha or Bose or know for accuracy. However, if you want simulated surround, either of the other bars will probably be better since this is something Pioneer did not pursue.

Each company placed development money towards certain priorities. Depending upon an individual's personal priorities, any of the three speakers could be a correct choice.

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post #204 of 606 Old 10-02-2013, 11:44 PM
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Originally Posted by drfreeman60 View Post

SVT - No issue mounting the bar in your stand. The feet that come with the bar make it very easy to redirect the sound upwards.

perfect. and it being that low won't sound weird? i feel like you can't use those mounting brackets on the back of the tv that puts it above the tv because it's too deep of a bar. i don't want to put anything on or in the wall and i want it to be a clean install. i just want the best sound possible.
Quote:
Originally Posted by MGoldbeck View Post

That is essentially my set-up and while tilting the speaker bar was a bit tricky, it works and sounds great.
-Michael
and it doesn't sound "off" being at like couch seat height rather than being up around eye level or higher?
Quote:
Originally Posted by marooned99 View Post

[/SPOILER]

Hello,

Do you know who makes this stand? Thanks.

looks like somebody beat me to it but yah it's a sonax milan. i want something that doesn't have an open back, something that's roughly 2 feet tall and something that will hold a speaker by without impairing the signal for the remote... it's the only thing that fits all three that i can find.
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post #205 of 606 Old 10-02-2013, 11:51 PM
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Also, I keep going back and forth on my decision: Can anyone tell me which one sounds better? Which you'd pick and why? Which has better sound and/or more power? It's between this Pioneer bar or the onkyo ls3100:



http://www.uk.onkyo.com/en/products/envision-cinema-ls3100-86197.html
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post #206 of 606 Old 10-03-2013, 03:53 AM
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Just buy this one. Getting a price for six more units for living spaces.
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post #207 of 606 Old 10-03-2013, 07:48 AM
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Originally Posted by svt2nv View Post

. . . and it doesn't sound "off" being at like couch seat height rather than being up around eye level or higher?

I checked and my tilt is about 9-10 degrees. As I've said before, it sounds great. However, I think I'd actually prefer a tilt of about 15 degrees but haven't mastered the proper balance between speaker bar and rubber feet needed to accomplish that. Any suggestions are welcome.
-Michael

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post #208 of 606 Old 10-03-2013, 12:13 PM
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Okay...here this goes:

I enjoy the sound of this Pioneer unit, but the design admittedly isn't the most convenient. Specifically, the IR repeater and front-panel display that the Sony HT-CT260 has appeals to me greatly. That said...I bought the Sony soundbar this weekend with the intention of sending back or selling whichever bar I decided not to keep. I'm not an outright audiophile (though I have definitely grown more picky as of recently), and was honestly kind of hoping that the Sony would sound close enough to the Pioneer that I could get rid of the speaker bar.

After testing the two...well, let's just say that's not going to happen.

Here's the thing: I'm realistically never going to use my sound bars for music, only for movies and TV shows. So I guess there was a little voice in the back of my head saying that, with the above-mentioned design issues also accounted for, I might have bought the wrong soundbar for my usage situation. But after testing the HT-CT260 and the SP-SB23W back to back using the same blu-rays, I ultimately came to the conclusion that the difference is just big enough for movies as well to convince me to keep the Pioneer unit. What it ultimately boils down to is that while the CT260 is a slight upgrade to the CT150 I had been using, it didn't end up really being a big one (with the potential exception of sheer bass output). The immersion and realism on both compared to the Pioneer bar just wasn't there. And no, I didn't compare the CT150 directly yesterday, but I had used it for long enough up until recently that I have its sound characteristics pretty well ingrained in my memory.)

Two big things separate the SB23W from the CT260 to my ears. The first (and more apparent) difference was the bar's output quality. The CT260's bar seemed strained compared to the SB23W's bar. I've never been very technical when describing sound, so I dare not be more specific, but the Pioneer really did seem to be producing the nuances of gunfights, car crashes, etc. more effortlessly than the Sony. It also seemed less harsh in some of the higher frequencies (like glass windows shattering), while somehow being slightly more detailed at the same time.

The second aspect -- the one that really seemed to make a difference with things like gunfights and explosions -- was the superior blend of the subwoofer with the soundbar that the Pioneer had. I know that makes a bigger difference with music than movies...but I'd still say that the difference is audible with the latter. At least, I'm guessing that's what it was, based on what I heard. The SB23W simply sounded more forceful with these sound effects.

Long story short, the Sony sounded like a really good soundbar when I dimmed the lights. But the Pioneer, like I said in my initial review, reminds me of the full-on home theater my friend has at his house. Again, it's not as powerful or as loud...but with the Pioneer, at least the shadow of that sound is there.



Disclosure: I tested both using blu-rays downmixed to PCM 2.0, with audio coming from the optical input. The Sony bar was tested with "Standard" and "Movie" sound modes; the Pioneer was tested with "Movie" mode.
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I bought this soundbar last Saturday at BB and I am very happy with my choice. I had been looking at one of the Sony soundbars but after reading recent CNET review and this thread on the forum, decided to go with the Pioneer. I am very glad I did. I have been living with my TV speakers as my sole audio source for the last 7 years and I am glad to finally upgrade. I have it connected by optical cable to a Panasonic 42" plasma I purchased in 2006 and we watch almost everything using an Apple TV for either Netflix or XBMC or Airplaying the WatchESPN app from my iPad.

Audio on TV shows and movies has been great. I also used Airplay to play The Beatles iTunes radio station from my phone and it was phenomenal. I was not successful getting bluetooth to work (but only tried for a couple of minutes since Airplay is easier). I also have not been successful getting the unit to learn my TV remote. I was able to teach the Harmony 650 a few of the remote commands but not all of them (it's also a new purchase so I am still learning how to use it). I will also say that the documentation for this device is very poor and full of some obvious errors, but I was prepared for that after reading through the thread. My wife was happy for the Dialogue mode that turns off the subwoofer as she does not really care for the bass found in ambient sounds and background music in the TV shows we watch and finds it distracting.

I look forward to pairing it with my Panasonic 60" ST60 when that arrives tomorrow. biggrin.gif
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post #210 of 606 Old 10-03-2013, 04:30 PM
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Well I'm bummed...my bar was supposed to be delivered yesterday. I spoke with Fedex...because of the Ironman event taking place next week here on the big island they are getting about 25k more packages per day than normal...their tracking systems are all f'ed up, and apparently my package is "stuck" somewhere at the Honolulu airport. The price we pay for living in paradise? So it gives me more time to consider the first piece of music I will listen to. Could drive me crazy. Thinking of downloading something from HDTracks just for the occassion...don't know if you guys have checked out their catalogue...not very deep, but there is a lot of awesome music in all genre's. And if you sign up you can download their sampler for free...hear what you might be missing- it is amazing!
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