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Looking for a Soundbar w/out Sub!

664 views 23 replies 4 participants last post by  RYANtheTIGER 
#1 ·
Hey guys ... Need your help. I've got the Samsung 65JS8500 arriving in a couple weeks. As you'll see from the attached picture, our living room is pretty open. And as a result, I worry that the stock speakers are going to feel "weak."

The problem is that my wife has had enough of bookshelves, subs, etc. So my only option is a soundbar without a sub. Please help! I'd like to be in the $200-300 range. Any good Black Friday deals out there to take advantage of?

Thanks!
 

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#4 ·
In your initial price range the YAS-105 would be a good bet like suggested. Stepping up to the 1600 you gain better surround sound, HDMI, and music cast but not really an upgrade for sound quality. For a large open room I don't think either of these will do a great job but will give better sound than the TV.
 
#5 ·
Probably the best bass-producing soundbar which doesn't require a sub is three times your desired budget...the Atlantic Tcchnology PB-235 with HPAS. According to reviews, this thing produces deep bass from its hybrid design, as well as doing well with the rest of the audio spectrum. Apparently it also produces very convincing surround emulation.

http://www.amazon.com/Atlantic-Technology-PowerBar-Powered-Soundbar/dp/B0090IA4KE
 
#10 ·
There are a couple advantages of HDMI. one is if you connect a Blu-ray player to the HDMI IN on the sound bar you will get the lossless formats. I don't consider this a big deal and would go with a sound bar with better speakers before I would worry about the minor differences between the lossless and lossy formats. The other advantage of HDMI depending on your set up is you will get the volume to show on the screen. Again not a feature I would make my decision for a sound bar but if it has it that can be nice. The advantages of the 1600 are better faux surround and Music cast if you want to integrate the sound bar into a home music system.


The problem with many sound bars is the small speakers they use. They simply can't play as loud or as low as bigger speakers. The Atlantic Technology sound bar mentioned uses bigger drivers and their version of a transmission line speaker to help bass output. There is nothing innovative about it, many other companies have their versions including Bose, but they use 2" drivers instead of 4" ones in the AT sound bar. The AT bar does follow good acoustic principles and is a good sound bar and should be a consideration for people looking for sound bars in that price range. AT is also a very good company to deal with for support..


In your situation I would still get a sound bar. While the sound bars you are considering won't go as low or as loud as bigger models it will still be a very significant improvement over the TV speakers. Unless you have a TV that has bigger speakers similar to this one, the sound bar will still be a welcome addition.
http://www.sony.com/electronics/televisions/xbr-x940c-x930c-series
 
#11 · (Edited)
...
The Atlantic Technology sound bar mentioned uses bigger drivers and their version of a transmission line speaker to help bass output. There is nothing innovative about it, many other companies have their versions including Bose, but they use 2" drivers instead of 4" ones in the AT sound bar. ...
To the contrary, the Atlantic Technology H-PAS design is innovative, and is more than simply a transmission line speaker. The transmission line is an element in a more elegant design.

From http://www.atlantictechnology.com/products/h-pas-speakers/#description :

"H-PAS stands for Hybrid Pressure Acceleration System. It combines elements of several speaker technologies—acoustic suspension, bass reflex, inverse horn, and transmission line—in an exceptionally unique and innovative fashion to produce bass that absolutely breaks what was previously thought to be the “Iron Law” of loudspeaker acoustics: the notion that you couldn’t have deep bass extension, good system sensitivity, and reasonable enclosure size all in one design. “Pick any two at the expense of the third,” went the old cliché. "

If you go to the above link, there is a more technical description when you hit the tab "description."
 
#15 · (Edited)
The AT sounds great (no pun intended) but it's way out of my price range.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Okay, here's an entirely different solution to your problem even though it isn't a soundbar. The solution is inexpensive, produces real bass, and is not obtrusive. In order understand what I'm proposing, you should watch the video linked below. If you have your own AV receiver, then you need nothing other than these two speakers, which will set you back around $350.

These speakers will do for everything other than rock, heavy metal, etc. They have an incredibly tiny footprint, and, if you listen to the video, you can even get a finish for these speakers that matches any part of your wife's decor. Just have an open mind, and give the video a watch. And, by the way, the speakers are transmission line.

They will not play incredibly loud... hence the comment about rock music... but because of their dispersion pattern they might do in your room. You can always drop a line to Kvart and Bolge, and include your floor plan.

http://www.kvart-bolge.com/#!reviews/c1xw8
 
#13 ·
Unfortunately, it didn't break Hoffman's "Iron Law". I like AT but that description is marketing. That type of design has been around since the 60's. Look at the picture in the link.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Acoustic_transmission_line
Let's look at the terms.
Acoustic Suspension - A type of loud speaker driver developed in the 50s.
Bass Reflex - It means the speaker is ported. Speakers are either sealed or they are ported in some form or another.
Transmission Line - follows a duct or channel before it goes out the port.
Inverse horn - the throat is bigger than the opening
That picture a few down on the right would have all of the above if you use an acoustic suspension driver. There is nothing new.


While AT might have been one of the first sound bars that could produce useable output in the 40hz range it is nothing new for speaker design. It is a good design and I have used the AT sound bar. It's biggest disadvantage is it is big, but so aren't the other sound bars that can go into the 40hz range without a sub like Paradigm, Martin Logan, B&W, Monitor Audio. Here are some links on Hoffman's Iron law.


http://sites.psu.edu/speakerdesign/2013/01/24/hoffmans-iron-laws-of-speaker-building/
http://www.salksound.com/wp/?p=56


If you don't believe me look at posts 18 to 35 from speaker designer Bill Fitzmaurice.
 
#14 · (Edited)
It's the use of all of these elements together that is innovative, that makes it new. , Obviously, nothing is entirely new in design, as everything depends upon earlier pre-existing elements.

I quoted the less technical explanation, and gave a link to the more detailed one. Just because the less technical one uses the phrase "Iron Law" doesn't mean that the crux of the explanation... that the combination of all of these elements together is innovative... is untrue. The "Iron Law" expression is the least relevant part of the description. I don't have to, and I don't, endorse every term and description used by anyone... including the use of the "Iron Law" term.

And, by the way, Atlantic Technology's H-PAS is patented, so the US Patent Office thinks it's new, even though they didn't get your permission.
 
#16 ·
I just said that combination in a speaker is nothing new and showed you documentation of it. I also showed you other sound bars that reach into to the 40hz range with decent output. Incorporating it in a sound bar was probably the first time it was used. Variations get patented all the time but that does not mean they re-invented the wheel or broke the laws of physics. You don't want to accept the fact that this technology is nothing truly innovative from a speaker acoustic design perspective whether I tell you or another speaker designer does. If someone developed a new driver technology and got that type of performance out of something this size I would be impressed and call it innovative.
http://www.samsung.com/us/video/home-audio/HW-J250/ZA


With that being said I don't want to take away from AT, as the sound bar is a solid design that performs well. I like AT as a company, they have excellent service and they use solid acoustical design principles in their products and I have no problem recommending them. I don't want to keep going around about this as the OP stated it is out of his price range and don't want to keep going off topic. You are welcome to PM me if you want to learn more about design or start another thread.
 
#19 ·
You could technically do it by connecting an analog or headphone out connection to the Play3/5 but whenever you connect something to the Sonos system there is a delay for it to convert it to digital and then back to analog again. So if you go this route you will most likely get a lip sync delay. I haven't tried it with the Play3/5 but I ran into this problem with the connect and connect amp so there is probably a good chance it will happen with the Play 3/5 too. I could test it later as I have a couple Play 5s (old style) at home.
 
#23 ·
It is about the same as the others and while I might be a little more in tune with these type of things my kids and family noticed without me asking about it. They kept saying there was something wrong with the sound and matching the voices. I wouldn't recommend it for that purpose.
 
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