Samsung HW-K850 & HW-K950 Dolby Atmos Soundbars - Page 53 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #1561 of 2702 Old 05-24-2017, 11:25 AM
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Somewhat unrelated, but since I'm in the same boat as the rest of you guys, I thought I'd ask:

In the event that Samsung doesn't deliver on delivering true DTS support, what true 4K UHD Blu Ray players, other than the Samsung K8500, support DTS to Dolby Digital 5.1 transcoding?

I had my eye on the Sony X800 for picture and sound quality, but while Sony reps say it can transcode DTS to Dolby Digital, people online say it can't.
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post #1562 of 2702 Old 05-24-2017, 03:37 PM
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If anyone is having problems disabling auto shut down for hdmi this is what I have done and it works for me.
1. Network Standby Off
2. Anynet On
3. Auto power link on
4. Auto shut down off

When I had anynet and auto power link off it didn't work for me but when I turned those on it now stays on even when I turn my tv off.. Not sure if the network standby off is needed so you can try with or without.
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post #1563 of 2702 Old 05-24-2017, 03:46 PM
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Originally Posted by jeep05 View Post
I'll have to agree with you there. In the meantime, i'll just continue to enjoy the awesome sound that this bar outputs as it is.
I agree with you as well. I have it hooked up to an htpc running windows 10 creators update which includes dolby atoms and when I use Plex or Kodi to decode the dts to pcm or dolby the new spatial settings that enable dolby atoms in the windows 10 creator update makes it sound even more amazing. I however have split my hdmi to a receiver and am using a desperate sub to get more low frequencies.

On a side note I hooked this bar up to Samsung tv and enabled cec and it gave me a full 8 band graphic equalizer that is embedded in the sound bar I believe. For those that want to fine tune should be able to do the same. My tv is a samsung.
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post #1564 of 2702 Old 05-25-2017, 10:22 AM
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So yesterday XBOX ONE enabled a globally controlled Dolby Atmos output option which upmix anything(including DD5.1, DTS5.1 etc) to output Atmos sound. I read lots of posts here saying that HWK950 sounds wonderful with Atmos soundtrack but not so good with regular Dolby 5.1. My guess is the reason why HWK950 sounds way better with Atmos soundtrack is that it uses a different chip to decode and output sound and that set of chip is just better. Since now XBOX ONE outputs anything in Atmos format I'm wondering if it will also sound better with HWK950 since it will most likely use the better chip to decode.
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post #1565 of 2702 Old 05-25-2017, 10:46 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tearfalls View Post
So yesterday XBOX ONE enabled a globally controlled Dolby Atmos output option which upmix anything(including DD5.1, DTS5.1 etc) to output Atmos sound. I read lots of posts here saying that HWK950 sounds wonderful with Atmos soundtrack but not so good with regular Dolby 5.1. My guess is the reason why HWK950 sounds way better with Atmos soundtrack is that it uses a different chip to decode and output sound and that set of chip is just better. Since now XBOX ONE outputs anything in Atmos format I'm wondering if it will also sound better with HWK950 since it will most likely use the better chip to decode.
Not quite right.

Atmos sounds so good because an Atmos film has been engineered to use each speaker individually to create an amazing sound. Standard Dolby 5.1 doesn't sound so good as it doesn't use the upwards firing speakers. If Xbox One is 'upscaling' standard Dolby 5.1 to Atmos it will not sound anywhere near as good as a proper Atmos track and the HWK950 can give a similar effect with it's surround modes already.

Hope this clarifies.
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post #1566 of 2702 Old 05-25-2017, 11:38 AM
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Not quite right.

Atmos sounds so good because an Atmos film has been engineered to use each speaker individually to create an amazing sound. Standard Dolby 5.1 doesn't sound so good as it doesn't use the upwards firing speakers. If Xbox One is 'upscaling' standard Dolby 5.1 to Atmos it will not sound anywhere near as good as a proper Atmos track and the HWK950 can give a similar effect with it's surround modes already.

Hope this clarifies.
There is nothing to clarify. Everybody knows what makes ATMOS sound better is the addition of the ceiling sound/up-firing sound that gives you the sense of height and more depth. What I'm talking is specifically about the weird surround sound behavior HWK950 makes. Even when there is no height sound engaging, the surround is still much better with ATMOS track than regular DD5.1 or even Dolby TrueHD where surround sound is almost non-existed. It is not a normal behavior considering a regular ATMOS enabled receiver will output an equally good surround despite the format as long as the content is same. And many suspect the reason for this behavior is that HWK950 uses one set of chip to decode and output sound for ATMOS track and another for all other formats and the latter just does an inferior job especially for surround sound. Now with the ability of XBOX to output everything in ATMOS format hopefully the HWK950 will utilize the better chip to better decode the regular DD5.1 or other formats although the source is the same. Of course simply outputting a sound in ATMOS format won't add height info to the sound and everybody here knows that.
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post #1567 of 2702 Old 05-25-2017, 11:45 AM
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Originally Posted by tearfalls View Post
There is nothing to clarify. Everybody knows what makes ATMOS sound better is the addition of the ceiling sound/up-firing sound that gives you the sense of height and more depth. What I'm talking is specifically about the weird surround sound behavior HWK950 makes. Even when there is no height sound engaging, the surround is still much better with ATMOS track than regular DD5.1 or even Dolby TrueHD where surround sound is almost non-existed. It is not a normal behavior considering a regular ATMOS enabled receiver will output an equally good surround despite the format as long as the content is same. And many suspect the reason for this behavior is that HWK950 uses one set of chip to decode and output sound for ATMOS track and another for all other formats and the latter just does an inferior job especially for surround sound. Now with the ability of XBOX to output everything in ATMOS format hopefully the HWK950 will utilize the better chip to better decode the regular DD5.1 or other formats although the source is the same. Of course simply outputting a sound in ATMOS format won't add height info to the sound and everybody here knows that.
I have no idea what you mean by 'weird surround behaviour'. On Atmos tracks it's fair to say the rears output is louder than other Dolby formats IMO, so I just alter the speaker levels for these formats.
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post #1568 of 2702 Old 05-25-2017, 12:22 PM
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Originally Posted by Chris1212 View Post
I have no idea what you mean by 'weird surround behaviour'. On Atmos tracks it's fair to say the rears output is louder than other Dolby formats IMO, so I just alter the speaker levels for these formats.
Okay let me put it in this way and you can also test it yourself if you have the equipment. Say you have an ATMOS Bluray disc and Bluray player. You have two ways to output the ATMOS track to the HWK950. The first and best way is of course pass through the ATMOS track directly to HWK950 and let it decode. The second way is to let the Bluray player decode the ATMOS track and downmix it to DD5.1 and output it to HWK950. Of course I know the second way is worse and you lose all the height information. But in theory and in fact with other receiver, if you mute all the other channels including front, center and height and leave just the rear speakers, the two ways of outputting the same ATMOS track should give you the same quality rear surround sound in terms of level, detail and clarity. You can even argue that the latter way will give you more content for the surround because it down mixes some height info into the rear surround. But in reality with HWK950, the latter way will destroy the surround sound quality and make it almost non-existed. The level is much lower with loss of details and it sounds muddy all the time. It becomes way less active which is not the case with other ATMOS enabled receiver. And the logical explanation here is that as soon as the HWK950 detects a non-ATMOS format sound it uses another set of chip to decode and output the sound which makes the sound much worse. And now with the ability of XBOX outputting everything in ATMOS format one would hope that it will trick HWK950 to use the better chip to decode and output better surround sound for non-ATMOS sound.

Last edited by tearfalls; 05-25-2017 at 12:42 PM.
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post #1569 of 2702 Old 05-25-2017, 12:57 PM
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Originally Posted by tearfalls View Post
Okay let me put it in this way and you can also test it yourself if you have the equipment. Say you have an ATMOS Bluray disc and Bluray player. You have two ways to output the ATMOS track to the HWK950. The first and best way is of course pass through the ATMOS track directly to HWK950 and let it decode. The second way is to let the Bluray player decode the ATMOS track and downmix it to DD5.1 and output it to HWK950. Of course I know the second way is worse and you lose all the height information. But in theory and in fact with other receiver, if you mute all the other channels including front, center and height and leave just the rear speakers, the two ways of outputting the same ATMOS track should give you the same quality rear surround sound in terms of level, detail and clarity. You can even argue that the latter way will give you more content for the surround because it down mixes some height info into the rear surround. But in reality with HWK950, the latter way will destroy the surround sound quality and make it almost non-existed. The level is much lower with loss of details and it sounds muddy all the time. It becomes way less active which is not the case with other ATMOS enabled receiver. And the logical explanation here is that as soon as the HWK950 detects a non-ATMOS format sound it uses another set of chip to decode and output the sound which makes the sound much worse. And now with the ability of XBOX outputting everything in ATMOS format one would hope that it will trick HWK950 to use the better chip to decode and output better surround sound for non-ATMOS sound.
Sorry, I'm so confused by what you are trying to do that I'll bow out at this point. Just to say I have no trouble with any of the Dolby formats, which all sound great. I also have no problems with either a Samsung bluray player or Minix box converting DTS to DD 5.1. Hope you get it sorted.
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post #1570 of 2702 Old 05-25-2017, 01:15 PM
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Sorry, I'm so confused by what you are trying to do that I'll bow out at this point. Just to say I have no trouble with any of the Dolby formats, which all sound great. I also have no problems with either a Samsung bluray player or Minix box converting DTS to DD 5.1. Hope you get it sorted.
I'm sorry I'm not a native English speaker so I may not have expressed myself clearly enough. To simplify, all I'm trying to say is that if there are two exact same 5.1(.0) surround sound tracks with the only difference being one packaged in ATMOS format and the other one in Dolby Digital format, they should still be decoded in the same way and sound exactly the same since they carry exactly the same information and contents. But with HWK950, it is simply not the case. It decodes anything in non-ATMOS format in an inferior way. I'm glad you get everything working and do not hear anything weird but when I tested it unfortunately it is not the case.
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post #1571 of 2702 Old 05-25-2017, 01:26 PM
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I'm sorry I'm not a native English speaker so I may not have expressed myself clearly enough. To simplify, all I'm trying to say is that if there are two exact same 5.1(.0) surround sound tracks with the only difference being one packaged in ATMOS format and the other one in Dolby Digital format, they should still be decoded in the same way and sound exactly the same since they carry exactly the same information and contents. But with HWK950, it is simply not the case. It decodes anything in non-ATMOS format in an inferior way. I'm glad you get everything working and do not hear anything weird but when I tested it unfortunately it is not the case.
Atmos has a much higher bitrate and therefore is a much better quality audio stream than DD 5.1, they would not sound the same.
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post #1572 of 2702 Old 05-25-2017, 01:33 PM
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Atmos has a much higher bitrate and therefore is a much better quality audio stream than DD 5.1, they would not sound the same.
Yes ATMOS has a higher max bitrate limit. But in this case I was talking about two exact same tracks with same bitrate both not exceeding the bitrate limit of DD 5.1 or DD TrueHD 5.1, one being packaged in ATMOS format and other one in DD or DD TrueHD, they should sound the same. But not true with HWK950.
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post #1573 of 2702 Old 05-25-2017, 01:35 PM
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Yes ATMOS has a higher max bitrate limit. But in this case I was talking about two exact same tracks with same bitrate both not exceeding the bitrate limit of DD 5.1 or DD TrueHD 5.1, one being packaged in ATMOS format and other one in DD or DD TrueHD, they should sound the same. But not true with HWK950.
It honestly sounds like your unit is broken, I've not experienced this and not heard anyone describe a similar problem to this.
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post #1574 of 2702 Old 05-25-2017, 01:48 PM
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It honestly sounds like your unit is broken, I've not experienced this and not heard anyone describe a similar problem to this.
1. If you scroll up this thread you can see lots of posts complaining about this problem.
2. Of course you don't experience this problem because you have nothing else to compare with. All you were saying is that when you play regular DD5.1 or transcoded DTS 5.1 track the surround works. But you won't be able to know that the HWK950 is actually decoding the non-ATMOS in an inferior way and not utilizing its full potential.
3. You said you noticed the level of rear speakers when playing DD5.1 is significantly lower. That is actually a proof that HWK950 is decoding DD5.1 in a worse way and sabotaging the quality. If you use a regular traditional receiver I promise you that it won't do it that way.
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post #1575 of 2702 Old 05-25-2017, 01:55 PM
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Originally Posted by tearfalls View Post
1. If you scroll up this thread you can see lots of posts complaining about this problem.
2. Of course you don't experience this problem because you have nothing else to compare with. All you were saying is that when you play regular DD5.1 or transcoded DTS 5.1 track the surround works. But you won't be able to know that the HWK950 is actually decoding the non-ATMOS in an inferior way and not utilizing its full potential.
3. You said you noticed the level of rear speakers when playing DD5.1 is significantly lower. That is actually a proof that HWK950 is decoding DD5.1 in a worse way and sabotaging the quality. If you use a regular traditional receiver I promise you that it won't do it that way.
I can assure you I have been around since the first consumer days of Dolby and have owned systems worth many thousands. I know some of these movies like the back of my hand and have found the HWK950 to provide a remarkable sound for a soundbar. The volume of the rears only requires a slight adjustment in my case and I would hardly call that a major fault. All IMO of course.
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post #1576 of 2702 Old 05-25-2017, 02:01 PM
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I can assure you I have been around since the first consumer days of Dolby and have owned systems worth many thousands. I know some of these movies like the back of my hand and have found the HWK950 to provide a remarkable sound for a soundbar. The volume of the rears only requires a slight adjustment in my case and I would hardly call that a major fault. All IMO of course.
I think you still don't know what the problem is that I'm talking about. Anyway, I will do some more tests with XBOX when I have time. If Samsung is decoding everything in the right way, then transcoding regular DD5.1 sound and outputting it as ATMOS format won't make it any better. But if it does make it better, then it proves that my theory is correct.

Last edited by tearfalls; 05-25-2017 at 02:06 PM.
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post #1577 of 2702 Old 05-25-2017, 03:01 PM
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Originally Posted by tearfalls View Post
I think you still don't know what the problem is that I'm talking about. Anyway, I will do some more tests with XBOX when I have time. If Samsung is decoding everything in the right way, then transcoding regular DD5.1 sound and outputting it as ATMOS format won't make it any better. But if it does make it better, then it proves that my theory is correct.
@tearfalls , your theory may hold some merit in your case but others here don't have the ability to test with the Xbox and its new feature as you described. Therefore it is a mute point to keep basically arguing your theory since most of us do not own the Xbox. Actually you are coming across as being argumenative because we can't validate your theory. Yes, the 950 may have its decoding faults as some on here have stated as to what they expect, but that doesn't make it wrong for everybody else. Just my .02
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post #1578 of 2702 Old 05-25-2017, 03:51 PM
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Originally Posted by tearfalls View Post
I think you still don't know what the problem is that I'm talking about. Anyway, I will do some more tests with XBOX when I have time. If Samsung is decoding everything in the right way, then transcoding regular DD5.1 sound and outputting it as ATMOS format won't make it any better. But if it does make it better, then it proves that my theory is correct.


I would love to test your theory out but sadly for me the Xbox doesn't allow to set the bitstream format to Atmos.

It asks to make sure my audio receiver supports it.

I would really appreciate your help.


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post #1579 of 2702 Old 05-25-2017, 03:59 PM
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@tearfalls , your theory may hold some merit in your case but others here don't have the ability to test with the Xbox and its new feature as you described. Therefore it is a mute point to keep basically arguing your theory since most of us do not own the Xbox. Actually you are coming across as being argumenative because we can't validate your theory. Yes, the 950 may have its decoding faults as some on here have stated as to what they expect, but that doesn't make it wrong for everybody else. Just my .02
It does not have to be an XBOX. With the new Creator Update on Windows 10, every HTPC, laptop or even tablet has the ability to transcode any sound format into ATMOS format and output it via HDMI into HWK 950. And also it is probably not likely but still possible for some of the Bluray players to have a firmware update to enable ATMOS output just like DD5.1 and DTS5.1 output option instead of Pass Through. And definitely possible and likely for some Android TV boxes to update and have this option. If what I suspect is right then it will be beneficial to lots of people when playing regular DD5.1 content.

Also, I have never said there is anything wrong with his setup. Nor have I said what I said is 100% proven correct. It's just a speculation and a possible way to explore a better way to use HWK950. If you are happy with the setup you have then it is good for you and honestly I don't find it necessary for you to come to this HWK950 section anymore. But for the rest of us who wants to explore more this forum should be an open place to discuss and argue in a civilized way.

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post #1580 of 2702 Old 05-25-2017, 04:03 PM
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I would love to test your theory out but sadly for me the Xbox doesn't allow to set the bitstream format to Atmos.

It asks to make sure my audio receiver supports it.

I would really appreciate your help.


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Try turn on and off the HDMI CEC function on your TV and HWK 950. I forgot what the combination is but one of them allows you to set bitstream to ATMOS.
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post #1581 of 2702 Old 05-25-2017, 04:33 PM
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Try turn on and off the HDMI CEC function on your TV and HWK 950. I forgot what the combination is but one of them allows you to set bitstream to ATMOS.


Tried a few combinations, doesn't let me select Atmos saying device doesn't support

Also, the soundbar stops outputting the sounds after trying this. Have to restart Xbox to make it work again


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post #1582 of 2702 Old 05-25-2017, 04:37 PM
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Originally Posted by tearfalls View Post
Try turn on and off the HDMI CEC function on your TV and HWK 950. I forgot what the combination is but one of them allows you to set bitstream to ATMOS.


Tried a few combinations, doesn't let me select Atmos saying device doesn't support

Also, the soundbar stops outputting the sounds after trying this. Have to restart Xbox to make it work again


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That's weird. I had the same error message when I tried to play DTSHD and DTS:X format but never Atmos. I even have an HDMI hub between XBOX and the soundbar.
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That's weird. I had the same error message when I tried to play DTSHD and DTS:X format but never Atmos. I even have an HDMI hub between XBOX and the soundbar.


Just to be clear if we both are talking about the same option. The option for Atmos that forces you to download the Dolby access app, right?

I downloaded the app and when I try to switch to Atmos in settings, it says incompatible.

My Xbox is connected to soundbar directly, and soundbar is connected to TV using arc. I will try to contact Samsung and check. Xbox support couldn't help me with this.


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post #1584 of 2702 Old 05-25-2017, 04:49 PM
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Originally Posted by Tanmay Garg View Post
Just to be clear if we both are talking about the same option. The option for Atmos that forces you to download the Dolby access app, right?

I downloaded the app and when I try to switch to Atmos in settings, it says incompatible.

My Xbox is connected to soundbar directly, and soundbar is connected to TV using arc. I will try to contact Samsung and check. Xbox support couldn't help me with this.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Good news, it worked after restarting again and again and messing up with the access app. Thank you.


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post #1585 of 2702 Old 05-25-2017, 05:00 PM
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Originally Posted by Tanmay Garg View Post
Just to be clear if we both are talking about the same option. The option for Atmos that forces you to download the Dolby access app, right?

I downloaded the app and when I try to switch to Atmos in settings, it says incompatible.

My Xbox is connected to soundbar directly, and soundbar is connected to TV using arc. I will try to contact Samsung and check. Xbox support couldn't help me with this.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Good news, it worked after restarting again and again and messing up with the access app. Thank you.


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Yes the Dolby Access app is still a little buggy. Every time I switch it to or back from Atmos will give me problems that only rebooting can fix.
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post #1586 of 2702 Old 05-26-2017, 03:49 AM
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Can someone provide a link to the app?
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post #1587 of 2702 Old 05-26-2017, 04:02 AM
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If the rumoured DTS 5.1 update is real,
does this mean that DTS:X can also be added in a future firmware update ?
Or is it not possible to add with a firmware update ?

By the way, I've read on another forum that the rumoured update will come in June,
according to the FB page of Samsung Singapore.
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post #1588 of 2702 Old 05-26-2017, 05:42 AM
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Originally Posted by tearfalls View Post
It does not have to be an XBOX. With the new Creator Update on Windows 10, every HTPC, laptop or even tablet has the ability to transcode any sound format into ATMOS format and output it via HDMI into HWK 950. And also it is probably not likely but still possible for some of the Bluray players to have a firmware update to enable ATMOS output just like DD5.1 and DTS5.1 output option instead of Pass Through. And definitely possible and likely for some Android TV boxes to update and have this option. If what I suspect is right then it will be beneficial to lots of people when playing regular DD5.1 content.

Also, I have never said there is anything wrong with his setup. Nor have I said what I said is 100% proven correct. It's just a speculation and a possible way to explore a better way to use HWK950. If you are happy with the setup you have then it is good for you and honestly I don't find it necessary for you to come to this HWK950 section anymore. But for the rest of us who wants to explore more this forum should be an open place to discuss and argue in a civilized way.
Hi,

I think I understand what you mean. I have a theory that maybe can be compared to yours. My experience is when the source have DD5.1, surround sound works perfectly. Then I can also select effect modes on the soundbar like movie, music and so on. The rear speakers are loud. But when the source have DD5.1+, the rear speakers sound is low and I cant select effect modes. Manual says that effect modes are not available when the source is atmos. Therefore my theory is that the soundbar simulates atmos and does that badly and the rear speakers are low. They should remove simulate to atmos function from normal dolby source. This is just my theory so do not shoot me and sorry for my English
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post #1589 of 2702 Old 05-26-2017, 07:17 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kpiskin View Post
Can someone provide a link to the app?
https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/stor...s/9n0866fs04w8


This is the Windows version.
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post #1590 of 2702 Old 05-27-2017, 07:29 AM
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Ok, I have had occasional problems with the sub/surrounds connecting but always resolved with a reset. Last evening The Bride says lets watch a movie. Rears/Sub are dead, tried several times to do the reset, then the unplug and replug everything. Tried the manual re-sync procedures several times and gave up. Watched the movie with a lame soundbar and no sub.

So, project for the morning. Do it all again, countless times.

Had the Left surround that just blinked blue and would never go red. Finally it connected with sound but then the Right has now too gone to just blinking blue and will never go red.

Wifi disabled as well.

Software updated.

Unplugged everything totally, reconnected after like 15 minutes hoping the normal setup would work and same.

Right rear now just endless blinks blue instead of the Left one, but, "It don't work right".

Any new suggestions? To me the issue is the always blinking blue. When I go to reset it, it never goes red. Should go blinking blue to solid red/blue and then blinking blue.

Love it, until it doesn't work and I'm not loving it lately.

80' PiROD tower, RG11, nikiml's optimized DBH20 UHF, nikiml's GH6 VHF both KT-200, HDHomeruns, Samsung UN65KS9800, UBD-K8500 & HW-K950
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