2010 ESPN 3D NCAA College Football - Page 8 - AVS Forum
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post #211 of 238 Old 01-11-2011, 07:47 AM
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Originally Posted by j.m. View Post

For me at least, the flicker (black flash) issue is still very much present on Comcast ESPN3D during the BCS NC game on right now. Anyone else still seeing it? As noted, it can be seen with or without glasses on, so it is not a glasses issue.

[EDIT - I would also note, as further evidence it is in the feed and not a hardware issue, that when the guide is on screen only the game video in the small preview window flickers. The guide does not flicker.]

Still had the black flash flicker in my Comcast ESPN 3D viewing.
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post #212 of 238 Old 01-11-2011, 09:26 AM
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Originally Posted by WirelessGuru View Post


Let me tell you one thing about ESPN. They were one of the first to broadcast in HD and they are just about the only ones broadcasting in 3D. ESPN is footing the bill to push technology and give us offerings. Are they in it for the money? Sure they are but at least the have the balls to put up and help perfect a technology through the growing pains rather than sit back like CBS and offer nothing in wait until it's profitable for them.

?

3D from OTA broadcasters:

CBS - PGA (2 days) & US Tennis Open (6 days)
FOX - MLB All Star Game (1 day)
NBC - Nothing
ABC - Nothing

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post #213 of 238 Old 01-11-2011, 02:44 PM
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I'm also on comcast, and I definately saw the black frame every so often.

I thought it was pretty good. I felt like I was at the game, because there mimimal ads in the broadcast. you had to wait throught the really long tv time outs just like the people there.

What I remembered most was the play at almost the end when Auburn scored that last TD, and they were reviewing it to whether the runner's knee was down before the ball crossed the goal line. The great part was depth of the 3d broadcast. Of course I can see the ball didn't cross, which would have been harder to see on 2d.

What I was wondering, did the replay officials in the box have access to the 3d angels?

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post #214 of 238 Old 01-11-2011, 03:27 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ken H View Post

?

3D from OTA broadcasters:

CBS - PGA (2 days) & US Tennis Open (6 days)
FOX - MLB All Star Game (1 day)
NBC - Nothing
ABC - Nothing

I probably didn't make it clear but I making a comparison to the introduction of HD broadcasting. CBS was one of the last networks to broadcast regularly in HD and are now widely considered to have the best HD picture when broadcasting sports. CBS sat back and waited for other pioneers to make the technology affordable and offered nothing. My point was that instead of bashing ESPN for offering poor 3D content, at least they are making an investment to push the technology.

BTW.... I too experience the occasional black frame dropout on ESPN 3D live broadcasts. These have been occurring since the first Ohio State game this season (maybe earlier) and I also saw it during the Harlem Globetrotters broadcast. I do not experience this when watching the Comcast on demand content.

Also...... U N S T I C K Y

Last Watched 3D: Oz the Great and Powerful

It should be called Violet-Ray

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post #215 of 238 Old 01-11-2011, 03:33 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WirelessGuru View Post

I probably didn't make it clear but I making a comparison to the introduction of HD broadcasting. CBS was one of the last networks to broadcast regularly in HD and are now widely considered to have the best HD picture when broadcasting sports. CBS sat back and waited for other pioneers to make the technology affordable and offered nothing. My point was that instead of bashing ESPN for offering poor 3D content, at least they are making an investment to push the technology.

This just is not true. CBS was one of the pioneers with regard to early HD. They showed some NFL games and college football games back in 98/99. They also showed the first Final Four in HD back in 1999. Now maybe you local station waited around before making the jump to HD but that is a different issue.

See this recent thread in the HD Programming Forum for more HD history:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1304794

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post #216 of 238 Old 01-11-2011, 05:00 PM
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Originally Posted by JDCJ View Post

Still had the black flash flicker in my Comcast ESPN 3D viewing.

So, since folks with DirecTV apparently do not have this issue, is Comcast at fault? If so, it is odd that neither OnDemand 3D nor Xfinity 3D have the flicker.


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post #217 of 238 Old 01-15-2011, 05:34 AM
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hey everyone just thought I'd chime in on 3d college football.

I have no technical problems watching at all.
Slo Mo replays looked really cool. The usual higher angle doesn't seem to provide very much depth and seems to take away from the ball though. My buddy and I both had trouble seeing where the ball was alot. It seemed like the cameras were focusing on the wrong part of the picture. I would imagine this will improve with time but as for now I'm pry gonna watch games that are important to me in HD, and leave the 3d to ones I'm not so excited about.

I def. think movies and video games are gonna be the medium 3d is best for right now. I want sports to be awesome; unfortunately, for me, right now sports has the occasional WOW factor with replays, but mostly has little depth effect and makes it harder to see whats happening in the actual play.
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post #218 of 238 Old 01-15-2011, 08:41 AM
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I read recently that ESPN-3D gives their affiliates the choice of receiving 3D content can receive it in either 720p SbS format or 720p TnB format. It was stated that DirectTV has selected 720p SbS and that Comcast has selected 720p TnB. This may explain the different user raactions to the football and basketball ESPN-3D broadcasts.
Can anyone who is using a Mits 3D adapter confirm either of these using 3D Mode selection on their adapter?
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post #219 of 238 Old 01-15-2011, 10:22 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by walford View Post

I read recently that ESPN-3D gives their affiliates the choice of receiving 3D content can receive it in either 720p SbS format or 720p TnB format. It was stated that DirectTV has selected 720p SbS and that Comcast has selected 720p TnB. This may explain the different user raactions to the football and basketball ESPN-3D broadcasts.
Can anyone who is using a Mits 3D adapter confirm either of these using 3D Mode selection on their adapter?

You may be onto something. My Comcast ESPN3D feed is definitely 720p TnB. Perhaps the SbS feed doesn't have the black flash/flicker issue.


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post #220 of 238 Old 01-15-2011, 11:35 AM
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j.m.
Waht make/model of 3D TV do you have and what devices if any are between your Comcast STB and the TV?
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post #221 of 238 Old 01-15-2011, 04:34 PM
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I watched the bcs championship On espn 3d on directv and I enjoyed thoroughly. The depth was great, little ghosting but only on close up sideline shots and only a few. Otherwise the telecast was great. I personally thought it was a much better experience than the hd broadcast.
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post #222 of 238 Old 01-16-2011, 04:33 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by walford View Post

j.m.
Waht make/model of 3D TV do you have and what devices if any are between your Comcast STB and the TV?

On the 3D side:
Motorola DCH-3400 STB->Denon AVR-3310ci AVR->Monoprice 4x2 HDMI Switch->Mitsubishi 3DA-1->Samsung HL-67A750 (HDMI3)

On the normal side:
Motorola DCH-3400 STB->Denon AVR-3310ci AVR->Monoprice 4x2 HDMI Switch->Samsung HL-67A750 (HDMI1)

The black flicker/flash issue is present on both sides. It only happens on ESPN3D and only in the actual video feed (the guide overlay does not flicker). When I rewind, the black flash always occurs in the same spot. To me, this all points to a feed issue.


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post #223 of 238 Old 01-17-2011, 09:55 AM
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On the 3D side is your TV set to receive Checkdeboard format and is the 3D mode on the Mits adapter set to SbS? Did you have to modify the EDID data for your Samsung to get the adapter to output checkeboard to it?
Yes is is apparent that the problem is with the receipt since it is in the same place in the recording.
Is there anything unusual about the content that is being received such as a lot of fast motion, panning of the sporting venu, or high contrast scenes?
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post #224 of 238 Old 01-17-2011, 10:43 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by walford View Post
On the 3D side is your TV set to receive Checkdeboard format and is the 3D mode on the Mits adapter set to SbS? Did you have to modify the EDID data for your Samsung to get the adapter to output checkeboard to it?
Yes x3.

Quote:
Yes is is apparent that the problem is with the receipt since it is in the same place in the recording.
Is there anything unusual about the content that is being received such as a lot of fast motion, panning of the sporting venu, or high contrast scenes?
3D works fine other than the intermittent blink on ESPN3D (only), which seems to occur at regular intervals of approximately 30 seconds. The black flash is literally a blink, just a few milliseconds long (probably one or two frames at most).


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post #225 of 238 Old 01-17-2011, 10:56 AM
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It appears that the adapter is having trouble converting the 720p 3D TnB format from Comcast ESPN-3D programs to checkerboard and is not haveing trouble converting 1080i SbS 3D from othe other channels. If you modified the Samung's EDID data to work with the adapter I actually would suspect a possible problem with the new EDID data.
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post #226 of 238 Old 01-17-2011, 03:41 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by walford View Post
It appears that the adapter is having trouble converting the 720p 3D TnB format from Comcast ESPN-3D programs to checkerboard and is not haveing trouble converting 1080i SbS 3D from othe other channels. If you modified the Samung's EDID data to work with the adapter I actually would suspect a possible problem with the new EDID data.
I just don't think so. As I noted above, the black flash is present even when I am viewing ESPN3D on the normal (non-3D) output side where neither the 3DA-1 nor the EDID-modified HDMI3 are involved.


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post #227 of 238 Old 01-17-2011, 03:53 PM
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Also, the black flash/flicker happens even on the looped banner screen that indicates when the next broadcast airs. It is happening right now, every 30-32 seconds (and does not coincide with the loop repeating). Again, this is on the normal side, not the 3D side. When I watch it with the guide pulled up so that the ESPN3D video is only in the small window in the upper right, only the ESPN3D video flickers, not the guide.

[EDIT - After some careful slow motion FF/RW and frame-by frame DVR work, I have determined there are actually 4 black frames in each flash. Well, the first of the 4 frames isn't completely black--a small strip of the video remains visible at the top--but the other 3 frames are.]


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post #228 of 238 Old 01-18-2011, 08:16 AM
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Do you have any problems on a ESPN HD broadcast? on HDMI 1?
I didn't realize that you could watch an ESPN-3D broadcast in 2D by supplying the standard EDID over HDMI1. Since the ESPN-3D broadcast is an HDMI 1.4a 720p SbS format which in 2D would show as 2 SbS frames.
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post #229 of 238 Old 01-18-2011, 06:32 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by walford View Post

Do you have any problems on a ESPN HD broadcast? on HDMI 1?
I didn't realize that you could watch an ESPN-3D broadcast in 2D by supplying the standard EDID over HDMI1. Since the ESPN-3D broadcast is an HDMI 1.4a 720p SbS format which in 2D would show as 2 SbS frames.

No problems on ESPN HD. ESPN3D is in TnB format here, not SbS. When viewing on the 2D side, it obviously just displays the two video frames one on top of the other. My point is that the black flicker still occurs there, just as it does when the TnB frames are combined on the 3D side.

My understanding is that in some markets (eventually all) Comcast broadcasts in mpeg4. Perhaps that feed is in SbS format and doesn't have the flicker problem. When I tried to trade my DCH series box for a DCX one (only the latter supports mpeg4), I was told it is not available in my market yet (which may be good because I have seen a lot of people report HDMI issues with the DCX).


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post #230 of 238 Old 01-18-2011, 06:48 PM
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..I'd love to watch College Football on ESPN 3D on my new 3D Samsung, but since I have Verizon FIOS I am SOL!
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post #231 of 238 Old 01-19-2011, 01:01 PM
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I am using Mits c9 w/ adaptor and directv's feed of espn3d is side by side
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post #232 of 238 Old 01-22-2011, 06:46 AM
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Any update on Comcast flicker issue. I have both Direct TV and Comcast feed into my Panny VT25. No flicker at all on the Direct TV signal. Continuous 30 second flicker on Comcast. Definitely a Comcast problem. Called Comcast and they said call ESPN and visa versa. Sent email to ESPN asking them to try and get Comcast to resolve this issue. Have not heard from them.
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post #233 of 238 Old 01-22-2011, 08:56 AM
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Since Comcast broadcasts ESPN-3D in 720p TnB format and DirecTV broadcasts ESPN-3D in 720p SbS format the problem may be in your VT25s handling of 720p TnB formatted 3D content
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post #234 of 238 Old 01-22-2011, 10:48 AM
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"Since Comcast broadcasts ESPN-3D in 720p TnB format and DirecTV broadcasts ESPN-3D in 720p SbS format the problem may be in your VT25s handling of 720p TnB formatted 3D content"

Not sure if this is the cause, as the flashing occurs on all of my non 3D sets as well, whenever I tune to ESPN's 3D display announcing upcoming games. When I tune to the other Comcast 3D channel it is fine.
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post #235 of 238 Old 01-22-2011, 05:22 PM
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I wrote ESPN today and this is the email I received. Tried it out and the flicker is gone! Can't wait until the next broadcast of the Winter Games to check it out!

Dear Robert,

Thanks for contacting ESPN and bringing this to our attention.

Comcast resolved this issue at 3:10PM ET today. Please contact us again if you continue to have issues.

Sincerely,

Chris
ESPN Viewer Response

--------------- Original Message ---------------

I notice a flicker about every 30 seconds on all of your 3D broadcasts ONLY on Comcast. I am located in Windsor, CT. I also have Direct TV and when I watch ESPN 3D on Direct TV no flicker. Have changed out cable boxes and called Comcast they have no answer. Can you please get Comcast to straighten this out. Looking forward to your 24/7 3D on 2/14/02011. Thanks


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post #236 of 238 Old 01-22-2011, 07:54 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CTBob View Post

I wrote ESPN today and this is the email I received. Tried it out and the flicker is gone! Can't wait until the next broadcast of the Winter Games to check it out!

CTBob, thank you for taking the initiative to do something about this frustrating issue. I can confirm that the flicker appears to be gone here, too! I knew it was something on either Comcast's or ESPN's end and not our respective hardware. I am amazed that they actually listened to you and fixed the problem so quickly!


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post #237 of 238 Old 01-22-2011, 08:32 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WirelessGuru View Post

I probably didn't make it clear but I making a comparison to the introduction of HD broadcasting. CBS was one of the last networks to broadcast regularly in HD and are now widely considered to have the best HD picture when broadcasting sports. CBS sat back and waited for other pioneers to make the technology affordable and offered nothing.

You could not be more wrong. Please do at least some homework before making such sweeping incorrect statements.

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post #238 of 238 Old 01-22-2011, 08:35 PM
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Regarding the flicker issue on Comcast, please take further discussion to the Comcast 3D topic: http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1255915

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