Lion King and Beauty and the Beast 3D Blu rays - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 27 Old 09-02-2010, 02:53 PM - Thread Starter
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According to BluRay.com there is talk of The Lion King and Beauty and the Beast coming to 3D Blu Ray in fall of 2011. Wouldn't it be cool if George Lucas just went ahead and converted all the Star Wars movies and releases in the 3D format now that would be cool. Enough with the animaton!
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post #2 of 27 Old 09-02-2010, 02:58 PM - Thread Starter
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Need more REAL 3D content to be released. Enough of this game that the studios are playing in regards to exclusives. Where's my incentive as someone who fully supports the format and spent the four grand to prove just how much I believe. The people that made the decision to do it this way are a bunch of Ds!
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post #3 of 27 Old 09-02-2010, 03:07 PM - Thread Starter
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Yeah yeah I know stop complaining because I knew going into this there wouldn't be much 3D content out there but now that I have my new tv and seen what it can do has made me extremely frustrated because I want to see more and more and can't! I hope these studios read this and realize the mistake they are making, Come on already, don't make fools out of all who believe in this new format and have spent the money already. Time to start giving back to the customer.
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post #4 of 27 Old 09-03-2010, 06:36 AM
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Originally Posted by Wellywell View Post

Yeah yeah I know stop complaining because I knew going into this there wouldn't be much 3D content out there

No no, I think we all expected limited content, but what we have here is *restricted* content. There is a decent amount of content out right now, but almost every release is locked into some silly exclusive hardware deal.

I've gone through the introduction to DVD, HD DVD and Blu-Ray and none of those formats were limited to one retail release after 6+ months after launch, with a slew of additional titles available bundled only with expensive hardware.

Those other formats offered free movie bundles, but they offered films you could also choose to buy at retail.
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post #5 of 27 Old 09-03-2010, 07:36 AM
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Rumor had it a few years back that Lucas was going to convert the SW movies to 3D and release them to theaters. I'm sure 3-5 years after that we'd get it on BD again
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post #6 of 27 Old 09-03-2010, 04:36 PM
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Rumor had it a few years back that Lucas was going to convert the SW movies to 3D and release them to theaters. I'm sure 3-5 years after that we'd get it on BD again

This is true. A few of the movies are done but I forget if he's waiting until all are converted before starting theater releases or if he's waiting for each group of 3 to be finished. I talked to a person who was working on some of these and had seen the final versions and he told me this but it was like a year ago....
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post #7 of 27 Old 09-03-2010, 04:44 PM
 
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Originally Posted by philnerd View Post

No no, I think we all expected limited content, but what we have here is *restricted* content. There is a decent amount of content out right now, but almost every release is locked into some silly exclusive hardware deal.

I've gone through the introduction to DVD, HD DVD and Blu-Ray and none of those formats were limited to one retail release after 6+ months after launch, with a slew of additional titles available bundled only with expensive hardware.

Those other formats offered free movie bundles, but they offered films you could also choose to buy at retail.

With all those home video formats (LD and VHS included) there were large populations (as in 10s of millions) of TVs that could display them. That isn't the case with 3D BD.

I remember when HDTV first was being broadcast in NYC - 1998 - (I lived on L.I) Fox refused to use either 720P or 1080i. All there "HD" broadcasts were 16x9 480P which is EDTV and not HDTV.
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post #8 of 27 Old 09-03-2010, 09:52 PM
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Originally Posted by Lee Stewart View Post

With all those home video formats (LD and VHS included) there were large populations (as in 10s of millions) of TVs that could display them. That isn't the case with 3D BD.

Well lets look at DVD, HD DVD and BD. Those required people to buy players to hook to one of those millions of TVs. Back in 1999 everyone I knew had a TV but almost no one had a DVD player. So really the player is generally the lowest denominator. When those formats had the same, or even fewer players, than what 3D has in the market now, there were movies for people to buy. And certainly 90%+ of available films were not tied exclusively to hardware bundles.
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post #9 of 27 Old 09-04-2010, 12:07 AM
 
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Originally Posted by philnerd View Post

Well lets look at DVD, HD DVD and BD. Those required people to buy players to hook to one of those millions of TVs. Back in 1999 everyone I knew had a TV but almost no one had a DVD player. So really the player is generally the lowest denominator. When those formats had the same, or even fewer players, than what 3D has in the market now, there were movies for people to buy. And certainly 90%+ of available films were not tied exclusively to hardware bundles.

1. DVD was concieved to replace VHS from the get go.

2. The studios and CEMs allowed a format war between HD DVD and BD that lasted almost 2 years.

3. You figure of 90% is not even close. It isn't even 50%:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1235684
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post #10 of 27 Old 09-04-2010, 08:29 AM
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Originally Posted by Lee Stewart View Post

2. The studios and CEMs allowed a format war between HD DVD and BD that lasted almost 2 years.

That raises an interesting question. Had there been no format war, would the single HD optical disc format have also launched with almost every film being tied to exclusive hardware bundles?


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3. You figure of 90% is not even close. It isn't even 50%:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1235684

I should have specified, I'm speaking form the perspective of the US market. As it stands right now, I can still only buy one 3D Blu-Ray at retail. But hardware bundled films include Coraline, Ice Age, Monsters/Aliens and now several IMax films (thanks LG and Warner for that one).

Still think its weird that Germany gets Grand Canyon so much earlier than the US and there's not even a hint of a domestic release for Clash of the Titans 3D. I mean, the US has more 3D BD players than Germany.. right??
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post #11 of 27 Old 09-04-2010, 12:13 PM
 
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Originally Posted by philnerd View Post

That raises an interesting question. Had there been no format war, would the single HD optical disc format have also launched with almost every film being tied to exclusive hardware bundles?

I strongly doubt it. June 2006 was the launch of HDM. That was over 8 years after HDTV was launched.

Keep in mind that they were doing HD transfers of movies for DVD long before HDM came out.

You can't compare 3D BD to HDM simply because the library of existing 3D films is tiny compared to movies shot on film, all of which can be used for HDM/BD. There are less than 300 films in 3D and that is over a 55 year period.

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I should have specified, I'm speaking form the perspective of the US market. As it stands right now, I can still only buy one 3D Blu-Ray at retail. But hardware bundled films include Coraline, Ice Age, Monsters/Aliens and now several IMax films (thanks LG and Warner for that one).

But we know additional 3D BDs are coming with I am sure, further announcements from Sony.

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Still think its weird that Germany gets Grand Canyon so much earlier than the US and there's not even a hint of a domestic release for Clash of the Titans 3D. I mean, the US has more 3D BD players than Germany.. right??

Germany is odd. I remember a few HD DVD releases that were different or never released in the USA (??).

It is evident that WB, DA and Fox really aren't interested in retail releases while Sony is and Disney is . . . sorta. Plus those companies that are licensing IMAX films (some of them).

I remind you that we are dealing with the greediest business entities on the planet - Hollywood Studios. I can't believe anyone is truly surprised at their actions.
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post #12 of 27 Old 09-04-2010, 12:46 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lee Stewart View Post

1. DVD was concieved to replace VHS from the get go.

2. The studios and CEMs allowed a format war between HD DVD and BD that lasted almost 2 years.

3. You figure of 90% is not even close. It isn't even 50%:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1235684

Just wanted to point out that DVD had a format rival, aka Divx, that required a different player...If I remember correctly, that format war was fueled by studios too.

thread closed
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post #13 of 27 Old 09-04-2010, 01:04 PM
 
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Just wanted to point out that DVD had a format rival, aka Divx, that required a different player...If I remember correctly, that format war was fueled by studios too.

It was. But it didn't come on day one and it only lasted 6 months. Plus some of the studios that supported DIVX also released movies on DVD.
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post #14 of 27 Old 09-04-2010, 04:24 PM
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I remind you that we are dealing with the greediest business entities on the planet - Hollywood Studios. I can't believe anyone is truly surprised at their actions.

Well that's certainly true. Doesn't mean they can stop me from complaining
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post #15 of 27 Old 09-05-2010, 01:00 AM
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What seems stupid to me is that the whole point of releasing a studios 3-D library is to make money, and there is certainly money to be made at this time on every 3-D title that is released. Due to the lack of content everyone who has a 3-D TV will more than likely pick up what ever title is released, regardless of quality or subject just to have something to view on their new set. I realize that there's a little extra expense in mastering the title to 3-D Blu-ray however, if you don't anticipate that 3-D will quickly go away then you can expect increased sales as time goes on so there's no real reason not to get more product out there unless you feel that 3-D won't be around long enough to make it profitable.

So, do the major studios think that the 3-D market will ever grow? At this point it doesn't look like it. Warner Bros. released a lot of 3-D movies in the 50s and if they were smart I would be putting together a small team to start mastering these old films to 3-D for first release to the DirecTV 3-D channel and then release on Blu-ray. There is money to be made here.

In the long run I believe that these 3-D re-masters will be more valuable than the current mass release of every third-rate TV series that is being put out on DVD. (Would you make more money on the DVD of the "Honey West" series or the 3D version of "House Of Wax"? ) I just hope the studios wake up soon and start giving us some content. I for one am a little disappointed that the TV manufacturers could not do a better job of talking the studios into providing content across the board rather than a bunch of small greedy little deals that are doing more to turn people off to buying a new 3-D TV.

I mean, what's the deal with releasing "Clash of the Titans" in Germany as a 3-D Blu-ray disc and only releasing it flat here. I didn't pick up a copy of the film on Blu-ray as I'm waiting for them to release it in 3-D and I'm sick and tired of being double dipped constantly on every high profile title that comes out. It just doesn't seem like they're using common sense to make their decisions in this area. I'm really happy that I bought a Samsung set that does 3-D conversion as this has turned out to be much more enjoyable than I thought it would and I have been watching a lot of content this way.
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post #16 of 27 Old 09-05-2010, 06:44 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by philnerd View Post

Well lets look at DVD, HD DVD and BD. Those required people to buy players to hook to one of those millions of TVs. Back in 1999 everyone I knew had a TV but almost no one had a DVD player. So really the player is generally the lowest denominator.

The problem is, to get 3D, you need a TV that costs way more than simply buying a player does - and those without a player need that, too. There isn't an existing glut of 3D TVs out there waiting to display 3D content.

For all those previous formats (including standard BD), the player could be hooked up to any existing TV, though a TV with only a coax input required the addition of a cheap RF converter.

3D is, so far, the only home video format that requires you to purchase a new TV to view it. Even BD can at least be downconverted to SD (and still appreciate the smaller amount of compression vs DVD) until someone upgrades to an HD set. While it may not look as good on that SD TV, it still lets you enjoy the purpose: to watch the movie.

3D isn't 3D if it's converted to 2D. You may as well just stick with 2D.
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post #17 of 27 Old 09-05-2010, 07:32 AM
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Originally Posted by NetworkTV View Post

The problem is, to get 3D, you need a TV that costs way more than simply buying a player does - and those without a player need that, too. There isn't an existing glut of 3D TVs out there waiting to display 3D content.

For all those previous formats (including standard BD), the player could be hooked up to any existing TV, though a TV with only a coax input required the addition of a cheap RF converter.

3D is, so far, the only home video format that requires you to purchase a new TV to view it.
Even BD can at least be downconverted to SD (and still appreciate the smaller amount of compression vs DVD) until someone upgrades to an HD set. While it may not look as good on that SD TV, it still lets you enjoy the purpose: to watch the movie.

3D isn't 3D if it's converted to 2D. You may as well just stick with 2D.

That's not exactly true. I have a TV that I bought at the end of 2008 that is capable of watching 3D (I also have a 2009 model year TV that can do it).

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Even BD can at least be downconverted to SD (and still appreciate the smaller amount of compression vs DVD) until someone upgrades to an HD set. While it may not look as good on that SD TV, it still lets you enjoy the purpose: to watch the movie.

And if you're going to use this argument, I think you should realize that 3D-BDs are supposed to play back in 2D when connected to a TV/player that can't handle 3D.

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post #18 of 27 Old 09-05-2010, 09:00 AM
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That's not exactly true. I have a TV that I bought at the end of 2008 that is capable of watching 3D (I also have a 2009 model year TV that can do it).

So you're personal situation applies to everyone?

Anyone who bought a TV before they were available (not that long) or didn't happen to buy one of the few models available that supported the current standard will have to buy a TV to view it. Better?

Further, no matter what, 3D requires a special TV to view 3D.


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And if you're going to use this argument, I think you should realize that 3D-BDs are supposed to play back in 2D when connected to a TV/player that can't handle 3D.

But not in 3D.

Viewing a BD movie on an HDTV may look better, but it's still the movie. 2D is 2D, regardless of resolution. Viewing a 3D movie in 2D changes it into a standard 2D movie.

SD vs HD is not the same experience as 3D vs 2D. It's a different event.
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post #19 of 27 Old 09-05-2010, 09:05 AM
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Originally Posted by NetworkTV View Post

So you're personal situation applies to everyone?

Anyone who bought a TV before they were available (not that long) or didn't happen to buy one of the few models available that supported the current standard will have to buy a TV to view it. Better?



But not in 3D.

Viewing a BD movie on an HDTV may look better, but it's still the movie. Viewing a 3D movie in 2D changes it into a standard 2D movie.

SD vs HD is not the same experience as 3D vs 2D. It's a different event.

No it doesn't but it applies exactly to what I bolded from your previous post. 3D movies and tv broadcasts are coming out this year, but I don't have to buy a new tv to view them. I'm not the only person who bought a Mitsubishi or Samsung DLP over the past 3 years.

Take issue with your wording if you disagree.

Viewing a 3D movie in 2D still accomplishes the same purpose: watching the movie. That was your argument for HD vs SD. It's the same damn argument, and just as true.

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post #20 of 27 Old 09-05-2010, 09:12 AM
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Originally Posted by pjb16 View Post

Viewing a 3D movie in 2D still accomplishes the same purpose: watching the movie. That was your argument for HD vs SD. It's the same damn argument.

Sorry, you're wrong.

VHS, Laser Disc, DVD, BD = all do the same thing regardless of TV.

3D only can be experienced with a 3D TV. It misses the whole point without it.

Further, try watching a dedicated 3D channel on a non-3D TV. There's no changing it to 2D in most cases - even through a box. You'll simply see a double image if the TV will accept the image at all. However, HD channels can be viewed on any TV, provided you have the box to downconvert it (digital converter box, cable/sat box, etc.).
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post #21 of 27 Old 09-05-2010, 09:13 AM
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Ok dude, whatever you say.

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post #22 of 27 Old 09-05-2010, 11:50 AM
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I had the foresight to buy a 3D ready 73" Mitsubishi (now in the bedroom) three years ago and then a 82" last year. For $400 or less for the adaptor and two pair of glasses we can enjoy 3D on the largest screens. Besides in time most TVs will be 3D.
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post #23 of 27 Old 09-05-2010, 12:30 PM
 
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Originally Posted by NetworkTV View Post

The problem is, to get 3D, you need a TV that costs way more than simply buying a player does - and those without a player need that, too. There isn't an existing glut of 3D TVs out there waiting to display 3D content.

For all those previous formats (including standard BD), the player could be hooked up to any existing TV, though a TV with only a coax input required the addition of a cheap RF converter.

3D is, so far, the only home video format that requires you to purchase a new TV to view it. Even BD can at least be downconverted to SD (and still appreciate the smaller amount of compression vs DVD) until someone upgrades to an HD set. While it may not look as good on that SD TV, it still lets you enjoy the purpose: to watch the movie.

3D isn't 3D if it's converted to 2D. You may as well just stick with 2D.

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Sorry, you're wrong.

VHS, Laser Disc, DVD, BD = all do the same thing regardless of TV.

3D only can be experienced with a 3D TV. It misses the whole point without it.

If you wanted to see color - you bought a Color TV. If you want to see HD, you buy an HDTV. In both instances, you need/needed a new TV to watch the new TV format. Each new TV format brought/brings new technology that increases the viewers viewing pleasure. Just like 3DTV does. No different.

VHS, Laser Disc, DVD, BD are nothing more than media platforms that contain a TV format
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post #24 of 27 Old 09-05-2010, 12:40 PM
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Originally Posted by NetworkTV View Post

The problem is, to get 3D, you need a TV that costs way more than simply buying a player does - and those without a player need that, too. There isn't an existing glut of 3D TVs out there waiting to display 3D content.

For all those previous formats (including standard BD), the player could be hooked up to any existing TV, though a TV with only a coax input required the addition of a cheap RF converter.

3D is, so far, the only home video format that requires you to purchase a new TV to view it. Even BD can at least be downconverted to SD (and still appreciate the smaller amount of compression vs DVD) until someone upgrades to an HD set. While it may not look as good on that SD TV, it still lets you enjoy the purpose: to watch the movie.

3D isn't 3D if it's converted to 2D. You may as well just stick with 2D.

how is this even a relevant argument? There's absolutely no demand to watch HD content on standard definition screens. While the fact that you can watch HD on an SD screen is true, it's pointless to bring up since no one wants to do it and more importantly, absolutely no one would pay extra for it.

in practice, HD demands new viewing technology just as much as 3D does.
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post #25 of 27 Old 09-05-2010, 01:29 PM
 
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IMO, Disney is not in a good position to provide 3D content. They never really embraced it in the past so they will have to do conversions like these two announced titles.
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post #26 of 27 Old 09-05-2010, 10:18 PM
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IMO, Disney is not in a good position to provide 3D content. They never really embraced it in the past so they will have to do conversions like these two announced titles.

To their credit, I think the cell animations will look really nice when going 2D->3D. Its one instance where a "layered" look will be perfectly acceptable since we intuitively understand the animation layers to be flat already. And conversions will probably take less time than live action films (the 80-85 minute runtimes will help there too).

If 3D does take off in a big way, Disney might have a nice cash cow on their hands with conversions. Knowing this it certainly makes sense for Disney to support 3D in a big way right now to ensure its success with releases like Toy Story 3D... oh wait. See I was able to squeeze in another complaint about studio support for 3D blu-ray
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post #27 of 27 Old 09-08-2010, 10:53 AM
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The one and only reason I was able to get into the 3D market was because the LED TV I bought less than 6 months ago took a dump on me and the store I bought it at had a policy to take it back if it couldn't be fixed. Thanks to the protection plan I purchased from them I was able to exchange the TV for the Samsung UN55C8000 with free 3D player and starter kit.

I am beginning to think Toshiba just doesn't make great products because not only did the tv go out and couldnt be fixed. My laptop is also acting up with the female power adapter unable to charge the laptop thus leaving it useless until I get the part ordered and installed, but the hassle of having to go through the fix process is annoying.

With Toshiba I had the 55 inch regza, it was a good tv until the issues came along. In the long run I am happy they did as I said before it allowed me to get into the 3D game. Now I wait for content, Directv is cool it provides some content but I want movies and I am willing to wait knowing my setup is complete.

I can understand the slowness of the content and agree that the urgency is just not there to get the content out because there really isnt alot of people out there who will upgrade to a 3D tv. I think the distributors of 3D content will release the content when they feel there is more demand out there for it. Right now there isn't, which means we wait.
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