Best 3d Bluray Movie so far????3d effects - Page 46 - AVS Forum
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post #1351 of 1882 Old 08-25-2013, 11:45 AM
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Originally Posted by Jedi2016 View Post

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The funny part is that if you go back to the first 3D in the 50s, it was all depth-based, with very little pop-out (basically, the same way JC did with Avatar).

I disagree that people "want to know they're watching 3D". While such people do exist (obviously), I think they're the minority. Like many other opinionated minorities, though, they're very vocal, which makes them seem far more numerous than they actually are. If you consider why the "average consumer" thinks that 3D is a failure, it's because they think it's a "gimmick", which perfectly describes the in-your-face pop-out experience that's brought to you courtesy of the '80s. The "gimmick" argument typically far outweighs the "it doesn't add anything" argument that the pop-out crowd likes to use when talking about depth-based 3D. I think depth-based "subtle" 3D very much adds to the experience.

Any time you're reminded that you're watching 3D, it pulls you out of the story, which IMO is a complete failure and the worst possible thing you can do. The best 3D (again, IMO) is the kind where you forget you're watching 3D. Not because it isn't there, but because it's so natural that it just pulls you in, and you become so immersed in the experience that it just is. You want 3D to bring your audience into the movie, not pull them out of it. Taking Prometheus as an example, I've heard from multiple people, who typically aren't fans of 3D, talking about how intense the movie was, even though they couldn't really explain why when they thought about it after the fact. It was because the 3D pulled them in, and it was so natural that they weren't even aware it was happening. That's successful 3D, right there, and it's clear that the movie is meant to be seen this way, despite people saying it "adds nothing" just because it doesn't have monsters jumping out at the audience.


There is a VERY fine line between "natural" and conservative though Jedi and 3d far too often falls on the side of conservative IMO. Avatar has often been described as "naturaI" while I would say it falls on the side of conservative. I personally find watered down "natural" 3d more distracting vs aggressive strong depth 3d because I am trying to figure out if I am viewing a 3d film or not. With strong clear depth, I don't have to keep trying to tell myself I am watching 3d since its obvious and I can just focus more on the presentation at that point. If you have to constantly try to figure out why you are wearing glasses during a film, what's the point? Might as well watch the 2d version from my perspective if the 3d is THAT conservative. The 3d in Prometheus was so "natural" a lot of the time it was hardly worth dealing with the glasses. That is one film on my 9' wide screen that I could enjoy just as much in 2d as 3d due to how safe they played it most of the time.

I would argue that "natural", conservative 3d as far as depth goes is more distacting and has more potential to remove you from a film vs clear aggressive depth 3d which always sucks me in.

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post #1352 of 1882 Old 08-25-2013, 12:03 PM
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Originally Posted by Jedi2016 View Post

Any time you're reminded that you're watching 3D, it pulls you out of the story, which IMO is a complete failure and the worst possible thing you can do. The best 3D (again, IMO) is the kind where you forget you're watching 3D. Not because it isn't there, but because it's so natural that it just pulls you in, and you become so immersed in the experience that it just is

I don't think that kind of 3D actually exists...the glasses are a major reason but also because the immersion is not anywhere close to the level of watching a 2D movie...2D is seamless...3D in its current form is distracting no matter how good or bad the 3D is...I always prefer watching a movie in 2D first for the story and video/audio...then I will watch it in 3D because I do not get the same seamless experience...a good movie can immerse you in 2D...a good 3D movie will always call attention to itself in terms of 3D depth or pop-out

Prometheus was fantastic in 2D but I didn't get that same feeling in 3D...Avatar is the only movie I've seen which actually looked and felt a bit better in 3D versus 2D...but even then I never got the impression that I was looking out a window into another world...it looked like a technology/gimmick projecting an image...3D will never be the mainstream way to watch movies ever...if the technology and experience was there then 3D would be the standard way to watch all movies (with no 2D option)...so in that respect yes, people do need a reason to watch 3D and they do need to know that what they are watching has value
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post #1353 of 1882 Old 08-25-2013, 01:23 PM
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Jedi, that was perfect! Couldn't have said it better myself!

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post #1354 of 1882 Old 08-25-2013, 02:11 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jedi2016 View Post

Any time you're reminded that you're watching 3D, it pulls you out of the story, which IMO is a complete failure and the worst possible thing you can do. The best 3D (again, IMO) is the kind where you forget you're watching 3D.

Let me ask you a question. Would you also prefer it if all color movies desaturated their colors to the point that they were just barely discernible from black & white? Would you rather watch The Wizard of Oz entirely in sepia, like the opening scenes? After all, you wouldn't want color to call attention to itself. You should forget that you're watching color, because for all intents and purposes you're practically not watching color anymore.

I just don't understand what the point is of making a movie in 3D if the 3D is so subtle and restrained that it looks indistinguishable from 2D. Why force audiences to wear 3D glasses if you're not going to give them any 3D?

I haven't seen the Prometheus Blu-ray (you would literally have to put a gun to my head to force me to watch that p.o.s. again, and even then I'd probably opt for death), but when I saw it in IMAX 3D, the movie basically stopped being 3D in the second half. The first half of the movie had some decent depth, but the last half was entirely flat and two-dimensional, as if Ridley Scott got bored with the 3D and didn't bother anymore. I took my 3D glasses off and could see no parallax offset in the images on screen at all. I do not consider that to be good 3D. I consider that to be a complete waste of my time.

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post #1355 of 1882 Old 08-25-2013, 02:20 PM
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Let me ask you a question. Would you also prefer it if all color movies desaturated their colors to the point that they were just barely discernible from black & white?

That's exactly the point. We watch color movies all the time and it doesn't call attention to itself.

Watching the Barclay Championship as I type I never once 2nd guessed the beautiful landscapes...

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post #1356 of 1882 Old 08-25-2013, 02:45 PM
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That's exactly the point. We watch color movies all the time and it doesn't call attention to itself.

Watching the Barclay Championship as I type I never once 2nd guessed the beautiful landscapes...

I don't agree with that. Good color, good sound, good PQ, good 3d all catch my eye or ear frequently in films that are impressive in one or more of these areas, especially if you have a passion for the technical side of movies which I would think most AVSers do to some degree. Good color does not catch your eye????? Good color has always been impressive to me, especially since getting into calibration where you really appreciate this particular aspect among other things. It's not unusual at all for non HT people to comment on eye catching color now that I think about it. I can think of numerous times over the years giving demos of my setup where someone will comment on various aspects of the presentation including color.

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post #1357 of 1882 Old 08-25-2013, 03:08 PM
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Good color doesn't distract or pull me away from the presentation. Bad color will ruin it though. Especially LCD's that cant display black or horrible neon greens during a golf tournament...

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post #1358 of 1882 Old 08-25-2013, 03:20 PM
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I think there is room for both types of 3D being argued here with extreme popout more appropriate for comedies and animation and some action and horror movies. P.S. I thought Hugo was a snorefest
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post #1359 of 1882 Old 08-25-2013, 04:03 PM
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Originally Posted by Tom Grooms View Post

Good color doesn't distract or pull me away from the presentation. Bad color will ruin it though. Especially LCD's that cant display black or horrible neon greens during a golf tournament...

Agreed, but neither does good 3d, good audio, good PQ, etc..... Of course as evidenced by even the posts here today, what good 3d actually is will depend on who you ask. I will just say that for me strong aggressive 3d pulls me in much more than taking me out while conservative 3d like Prometheus will commonly take me out of the presentation.

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post #1360 of 1882 Old 08-26-2013, 05:52 PM
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We watched two 3D movies over the weekend (four of us). We all thought that Men in Black 3 was pretty weak and John Carter was excellent. From the eyes of four 65+ year olds.
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post #1361 of 1882 Old 08-27-2013, 06:59 AM
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We watched two 3D movies over the weekend (four of us). We all thought that Men in Black 3 was pretty weak and John Carter was excellent. From the eyes of four 65+ year olds.

That is interesting because both movies were 2D to 3D conversions. I guess some conversions are better than others.

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post #1362 of 1882 Old 08-27-2013, 03:52 PM
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I know from reading reviews that John Carter was a very high budget movie with a lot of CG shots. Some of the long distance 3D shots were amazing. A lot of depth but little pop out effect. Amazon reviewers have the movie itself rated 4 stars which is pretty good for a movie that kind of flopped at the box office. Very entertaining.
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post #1363 of 1882 Old 08-28-2013, 04:36 AM
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Has anyone seen The Great Gatsby in 3D? I'm contemplating on getting the 3D version or just the 2D version. I've read mixed reviews up until now.

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post #1364 of 1882 Old 08-28-2013, 04:55 AM
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If there is a 3d version of a title available that I'm interested in, I always buy it. If nothing else to support the technology. I'm sure its only a few bucks more. Grab it!

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post #1365 of 1882 Old 08-28-2013, 11:20 AM
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I haven't screen 3d Gatsby yet, I received my pre-order that I totally forgot about yesterday. Probably screen it Friday night. I'll report back.
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post #1366 of 1882 Old 08-28-2013, 12:47 PM
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Get the 3D version. The Great Gatsby has excellent 3D and you will love his mansion and parties in 3D.
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post #1367 of 1882 Old 08-28-2013, 03:32 PM
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Has anyone seen The Great Gatsby in 3D? I'm contemplating on getting the 3D version or just the 2D version. I've read mixed reviews up until now.
I'll echo NSX1992. I saw Gatsby in 3D a week ago and it is stunning if you can handle the constant, split-second jumpcuts Baz Lurhman puts in several places. The 3D depth in even the simplest static dialogue scenes is really impressive. It is truly an almost dream-like 3D world, not in stuff flying out at you so much but rather the rich depth of field throughout nearly every scene in the entire movie.
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post #1368 of 1882 Old 08-28-2013, 03:35 PM
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I'll echo NSX1992. I saw Gatsby in 3D a week ago and it is stunning if you can handle the constant, split-second jumpcuts Baz Lurhman puts in several places. The 3D depth in even the simplest static dialogue scenes is really impressive. It is truly an almost dream-like 3D world, not in stuff flying out at you so much but rather the rich depth of field throughout nearly every scene in the entire movie.

I saw it in IMAX 3D and like some many 3D films was a WASTE OF MONEY
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post #1369 of 1882 Old 08-28-2013, 03:44 PM
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I didn't think the 3d was great.
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post #1370 of 1882 Old 08-28-2013, 04:03 PM
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I did. It was obvious that the director had depth in mind throughout. It was effective, and I wouldn't bother with a flat version.
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post #1371 of 1882 Old 08-28-2013, 04:05 PM
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I ended up picking up the 3D version today, I can't help myself. Probably watch it tonight.

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post #1372 of 1882 Old 08-28-2013, 08:43 PM
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Originally Posted by andy sullivan View Post

We watched two 3D movies over the weekend (four of us). We all thought that Men in Black 3 was pretty weak and John Carter was excellent. From the eyes of four 65+ year olds.
I haven't seen John Carter in 3D, but as for MiB3, I thought the 3D was actually done pretty well. While it is a conversion, it was shot with the eventual 3D in mind, so everything was framed and positioned in ways that would allow the effect to work. I thought the result was far better than the ones where they just shoot it as a straight-up 2D movie, with no thought for 3D framing, and then slap the conversion on after the fact. Those can sometimes work, but it's generally better if it's planned from the start.

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post #1373 of 1882 Old 08-29-2013, 04:19 AM
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I haven't seen John Carter in 3D, but as for MiB3, I thought the 3D was actually done pretty well. While it is a conversion, it was shot with the eventual 3D in mind, so everything was framed and positioned in ways that would allow the effect to work. I thought the result was far better than the ones where they just shoot it as a straight-up 2D movie, with no thought for 3D framing, and then slap the conversion on after the fact. Those can sometimes work, but it's generally better if it's planned from the start.

MIB3 wasn't too bad for 3d but John Carter 3D was not very good, pity as I really enjoy that movie.
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post #1374 of 1882 Old 08-29-2013, 02:33 PM
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I see I pre-ordered Star Trek Into Darkness as well..... Being a trekker I am sure I will find it OK. Nobody I know, seen it in 3D at the theater though... Is it a conversion or natively shot 3D title? Or a mixture? I can see the CGI stuff being native perhaps?
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post #1375 of 1882 Old 08-29-2013, 03:10 PM
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Originally Posted by JOHNnDENVER View Post

I see I pre-ordered Star Trek Into Darkness as well..... Being a trekker I am sure I will find it OK. Nobody I know, seen it in 3D at the theater though... Is it a conversion or natively shot 3D title? Or a mixture? I can see the CGI stuff being native perhaps?

I saw it in IMAX 3D - on OPENING DAY - I am a Trekkie Fan.

I can not wait to receive my 3D Copy. I pre-ordered when it
was still in the movies.
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post #1376 of 1882 Old 08-29-2013, 08:06 PM
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Originally Posted by JOHNnDENVER View Post

I see I pre-ordered Star Trek Into Darkness as well..... Being a trekker I am sure I will find it OK. Nobody I know, seen it in 3D at the theater though... Is it a conversion or natively shot 3D title? Or a mixture? I can see the CGI stuff being native perhaps?

It's a conversion, but I thought it was excellent in IMAX 3D. One of the few movies I can think of where the 3D really did add a ton to the experience. I saw it again in 2D later and it just wasn't the same. Yeah, I assume the CGI would be native (it'd be pretty insane otherwise).
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post #1377 of 1882 Old 08-30-2013, 09:19 AM
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saw Life of Pi 3D last night...after hearing a lot of great things about the 3D I was very disappointed...it didn't have consistent depth...it looked great in spots and the water depth was impressive at times but overall I felt it very lacking...even taking the glasses off during many of the scenes it appeared to have little to no effect...there were a few nice pop-outs (flying fish, sticks coming out of the screen etc) but again not too many...the very first scenes showed impressive depth (when they showed the various animals in the zoo) so I was expecting a reference level 3D experience but after that it fizzled out...the promos referred to Life of Pi as the new Avatar but not even close when it comes to overall 3D
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post #1378 of 1882 Old 08-30-2013, 09:32 AM
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saw Life of Pi 3D last night...after hearing a lot of great things about the 3D I was very disappointed...it didn't have consistent depth...it looked great in spots and the water depth was impressive at times but overall I felt it very lacking...even taking the glasses off during many of the scenes it appeared to have little to no effect...there were a few nice pop-outs (flying fish, sticks coming out of the screen etc) but again not too many...the very first scenes showed impressive depth (when they showed the various animals in the zoo) so I was expecting a reference level 3D experience but after that it fizzled out...the promos referred to Life of Pi as the new Avatar but not even close when it comes to overall 3D

Maybe the 1st 20 minutes when they were on LAND was Good.

After that - on the water - NO 3D.
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post #1379 of 1882 Old 08-30-2013, 11:25 AM
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It's a conversion, but I thought it was excellent in IMAX 3D. One of the few movies I can think of where the 3D really did add a ton to the experience.

Conversely, I didn't think the 3D added much at all to Star Trek. The few times when the ship jumped to warp were cool, but otherwise the movie didn't make much attempt to do anything interesting with the 3D. It was clearly an afterthought.

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post #1380 of 1882 Old 08-30-2013, 04:30 PM
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Conversely, I didn't think the 3D added much at all to Star Trek. The few times when the ship jumped to warp were cool, but otherwise the movie didn't make much attempt to do anything interesting with the 3D. It was clearly an afterthought.

When I watched STID at the theater, other than a few FX shots, I kind of forgot the movie was in 3D as it went along. Some people think that kind of non-intrusive presentation is good 3D, I think it means the effect was too subtle and thus largely pointless (if I forget I'm watching a 3D movie, I may as well just watch the 2D version). I'll be curious to see if the 3D is any more pronounced at home as my LG allows me to tweak the 3D effect while still minimizing occurrence of ghosting.
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