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post #721 of 769 Old 06-29-2015, 02:00 PM
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That is strange, particularly given one of the selling points is you don't have to wait 28 days like Netflix or Redbox...
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post #722 of 769 Old 06-29-2015, 11:45 PM
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Most of the titles I wanted to see were on wait. This would probably be the most common among all subscribers but I think for subscription service there really needs to be an improvement here overall. As a result I would only rent from in stock titles.

The other issue was that certain titles were priced higher than the included membership price which as I understand it, the cost is higher to purchase these titles such as Lion King or Noah.
I believe that some titles like NOAH, BEOWULF, SEVENTH SON, etc. are priced higher because they are not available in the US. So the company would have to import them from Italy (or wherever) at higher costs (including shipping). Given that, I expect those to cost more to rent. (It IS a business, after all.) I do wish they carried BOOGIE, but that is the only import title I miss. I'm actually quite content that I can see those movies without the hassle/cost of buying the imports.

I think folks should also keep in mind that everyone wants to see the new releases first, so those can be on a WAIT status. But the rental price drops after demand subsides, going down to about $4.99 - $5.99. And of course, the wait times are shorter at that point. It's just the whole supply-and-demand thing, that's all. Doesn't anyone else remember the days when Netflix subscribers would be screaming about new releases always being on a long-wait status, and that sometimes it would take months for a new release sitting in their queue to be shipped!? There were even a few times that a movie would hit cable and NF still hadn't shipped me one. I've never had to wait that long for a 3DBR title.
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post #723 of 769 Old 06-30-2015, 06:33 AM
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Some titles are only licensed for digital media in the US. Beowulf is on Netflix3D and Seventh Son is on Vudu3D. I bought NOAH from overseas.
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post #724 of 769 Old 06-30-2015, 08:06 AM
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I believe that some titles like NOAH, BEOWULF, SEVENTH SON, etc. are priced higher because they are not available in the US. So the company would have to import them from Italy (or wherever) at higher costs (including shipping). Given that, I expect those to cost more to rent. (It IS a business, after all.) I do wish they carried BOOGIE, but that is the only import title I miss. I'm actually quite content that I can see those movies without the hassle/cost of buying the imports.

I think folks should also keep in mind that everyone wants to see the new releases first, so those can be on a WAIT status. But the rental price drops after demand subsides, going down to about $4.99 - $5.99. And of course, the wait times are shorter at that point. It's just the whole supply-and-demand thing, that's all. Doesn't anyone else remember the days when Netflix subscribers would be screaming about new releases always being on a long-wait status, and that sometimes it would take months for a new release sitting in their queue to be shipped!? There were even a few times that a movie would hit cable and NF still hadn't shipped me one. I've never had to wait that long for a 3DBR title.
I can't say I have that issue with Netflix. For new releases, if it's in my queue a week before release, 95% of the time the titles arrive in my mailbox on that Tuesday, the actual release day of the title.

I have been very pleased with 3d-blurayrental. Using them and Netflix together has worked very well. With the occasional Redbox rental sprinkled in there(for that small percentage of titles that Netflix doesn't get to me on release day)

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post #725 of 769 Old 06-30-2015, 08:32 AM
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I can't say I have that issue with Netflix. For new releases, if it's in my queue a week before release, 95% of the time the titles arrive in my mailbox on that Tuesday, the actual release day of the title.
NF is a much bigger entity now, with deeper pockets. But in prior years, it was a problem for many. 3DBR is not the behemoth that NF has become. Given that, the 3DBR wait times for some titles is not as bad as NF had previously been.
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post #726 of 769 Old 06-30-2015, 11:33 AM
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I believe that some titles like NOAH, BEOWULF, SEVENTH SON, etc. are priced higher because they are not available in the US. So the company would have to import them from Italy (or wherever) at higher costs (including shipping). Given that, I expect those to cost more to rent. (It IS a business, after all.) I do wish they carried BOOGIE, but that is the only import title I miss. I'm actually quite content that I can see those movies without the hassle/cost of buying the imports.

I think folks should also keep in mind that everyone wants to see the new releases first, so those can be on a WAIT status. But the rental price drops after demand subsides, going down to about $4.99 - $5.99. And of course, the wait times are shorter at that point. It's just the whole supply-and-demand thing, that's all. Doesn't anyone else remember the days when Netflix subscribers would be screaming about new releases always being on a long-wait status, and that sometimes it would take months for a new release sitting in their queue to be shipped!? There were even a few times that a movie would hit cable and NF still hadn't shipped me one. I've never had to wait that long for a 3DBR title.
I've had disc Netflix service since about 2009, never had to wait that long unless you're referring before that. Usually within a week it would ship maybe two at the most. As for the higher priced discs, I understand it costs more, but there's no benefit to being a member and ordering those discs. You're paying the same price as non members. Most of the titles I wanted to view weren't new releases either. I didn't even bother with those.

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post #727 of 769 Old 06-30-2015, 11:37 AM
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I can't say I have that issue with Netflix. For new releases, if it's in my queue a week before release, 95% of the time the titles arrive in my mailbox on that Tuesday, the actual release day of the title.

I have been very pleased with 3d-blurayrental. Using them and Netflix together has worked very well. With the occasional Redbox rental sprinkled in there(for that small percentage of titles that Netflix doesn't get to me on release day)
Agreed, this has been my experience with Netflix too. Usually if I have something first in my queue new release it gets shipped that day of release about 95 percent for me too. Not expecting 3DBlurayrental to match that, just saying there were far too many titles on wait and not just new releases. Some improvement is needed for a subscription model to work.

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post #728 of 769 Old 06-30-2015, 01:17 PM
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NF is a much bigger entity now, with deeper pockets. But in prior years, it was a problem for many. 3DBR is not the behemoth that NF has become. Given that, the 3DBR wait times for some titles is not as bad as NF had previously been.
I've been with Netlflix since 1999. When they still had an option to pay an individual title rental. They actually forced me into the the all you can rent plans by eliminating the those old per title payment options. But they had growing pains too. It was the same issue with Netflix back in 1999/2000 for me as with 3d-blurayrental. With titles coming from the West Coast while I lived on the East Coast. So it took a bunch of days to receive my titles. But eventually Netflix opened up more shipping centers so I got my titles quicker. Of course now Netflix is in the process of closing many of those centers. And I guess they might even end all disc rentals within a couple of years.

But I hope 3d-blurayrenatl stays around and continues to grow. Because with the way things are going I have been relying on them more than ever now. And if/when Netflix gets out of the disc rental game, 3d-blurayrental will become even more important for my entertainment.
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post #729 of 769 Old 06-30-2015, 03:33 PM
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I've been with Netlflix since 1999. When they still had an option to pay an individual title rental. They actually forced me into the the all you can rent plans by eliminating the those old per title payment options. But they had growing pains too. It was the same issue with Netflix back in 1999/2000 for me as with 3d-blurayrental. With titles coming from the West Coast while I lived on the East Coast. So it took a bunch of days to receive my titles. But eventually Netflix opened up more shipping centers so I got my titles quicker. Of course now Netflix is in the process of closing many of those centers. And I guess they might even end all disc rentals within a couple of years.

But I hope 3d-blurayrenatl stays around and continues to grow. Because with the way things are going I have been relying on them more than ever now. And if/when Netflix gets out of the disc rental game, 3d-blurayrental will become even more important for my entertainment.
Discs aren't going anywhere. According to HMV, Netflix execs have stated that 70% of their streaming is...episodic TV! You heard that right. You think NF will drop access to theatrical movies on disc just to concentrate on re-runs and their own original series and occasional movie pick-up. Sure, if they ever get a cableTV channel berth like FX, AMC, etc. But I don't see them saying "We won't be offering FURY ROAD, but here...have some old season of CHARMED instead." With theatricals currently accounting for just 30% of their streaming, I think that JURASSIC WORLD Part 6 will still find a disc berth at NF (and in 3D via 3DBR...hopefully!)
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post #730 of 769 Old 06-30-2015, 03:39 PM
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Discs aren't going anywhere. According to HMV, Netflix execs have stated that 70% of their streaming is...episodic TV! You heard that right. You think NF will drop access to theatrical movies on disc just to concentrate on re-runs and their own original series and occasional movie pick-up. Sure, if they ever get a cableTV channel berth like FX, AMC, etc. But I don't see them saying "We won't be offering FURY ROAD, but here...have some old season of CHARMED instead." With theatricals currently accounting for just 30% of their streaming, I think that JURASSIC WORLD Part 6 will still find a disc berth at NF (and in 3D via 3DBR...hopefully!)
When Netflix no longer makes money on discs(or drops below a certain revenue level), thats when I expect disc rentals to be dropped. And if their rate of decline for disc revenue continues at the same pace, that should happen within a couple of years.

Less than ten percent of Netflix subscribers rent discs now.

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post #731 of 769 Old 06-30-2015, 05:25 PM
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When Netflix no longer makes money on discs(or drops below a certain revenue level), thats when I expect disc rentals to be dropped. And if their rate of decline for disc revenue continues at the same pace, that should happen within a couple of years.

Less than ten percent of Netflix subscribers rent discs now.
Not surprised, as there is also Redbox (VERY successful!). And then there's OnDemand, Vudu, iTunes, etc. When there are multiple platforms, everything is spread around. If more people were buying movies at Vudu prices than are getting discs, those companies would be crowing, It would be interesting to know the sales figures to see how many buy digitally over disc. But the last report I read some months back indicated that digital purchasing is way behind disc sales.

And if NF drops discs years from now, who knows...maybe 3DBR will be the new Netflix!
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post #732 of 769 Old 06-30-2015, 08:38 PM
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I believe that some titles like NOAH, BEOWULF, SEVENTH SON, etc. are priced higher because they are not available in the US. So the company would have to import them from Italy (or wherever) at higher costs (including shipping).
I don't doubt this per se, but if true I find it surprising. Wouldn't rental services be under different release rules than the dics for joe-home-user?

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post #733 of 769 Old 06-30-2015, 10:42 PM
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I think it's around 14 percent if my math is correct. Roughly 41 million streaming vs 5.56 million by mail. 6 million is still a pretty strong business. I doubt there's any other by mail service as strong. But discs are on their way out. Looking at the chart I'd say more than two years away. Maybe in 5 years they'll close it out or sell it off. It may level off too a bit; the decline could slow and level out around 4.5 million. Many don't have a choice between streaming and by mail. By mail may be their only choice with internet speed limits.
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post #734 of 769 Old 07-01-2015, 06:37 AM
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I think it's around 14 percent if my math is correct. Roughly 41 million streaming vs 5.56 million by mail. 6 million is still a pretty strong business. I doubt there's any other by mail service as strong. But discs are on their way out. Looking at the chart I'd say more than two years away. Maybe in 5 years they'll close it out or sell it off. It may level off too a bit; the decline could slow and level out around 4.5 million. Many don't have a choice between streaming and by mail. By mail may be their only choice with internet speed limits.
I thought Netflix was up to 60+ million subscribers now?

Plus that chart is only the subscribers, not the revenue which also needs to be factored. Disc revue accounts for smaller and smaller portion every quarter. And they are already closing more and more distribution centers which has already affected delivery in certain areas. Then add the Post office changes and a large percentage of people have had delivery changes. And all those will affect people leaving. Plus They probably have a certain threshold calculated out to be reached for them to exit the disc rental business. Once the disc revenue gets below a certain percentage or number they will just decide to cede disc rentals to the other players in the markter SInce it takes up a smaller and smaller percentage every quarter.

I guess when that does happen that could be good news for companies like 3d-blurayrental.

Just recently, in Q1 2015, Netflix added 4.9 million streaming subscribers(62.3 million total subs). That number, in one quarter, comes close to equaling all their remaining disc subscribers.

http://variety.com/2015/digital/news...q1-1201473151/

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Netflix Adds Record 4.9 Million Subscribers in Q1

Subscription VOD leader ends quarter with 62.3 million subs, cites original series as fueling better-than-expected U.S. growth

Todd Spangler
NY Digital Editor
@xpangler
Netflix blew past subscriber-growth expectations for the first quarter of 2015, packing on 4.9 million new streaming customers in the period — a record for the company................

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post #735 of 769 Old 07-01-2015, 08:43 AM
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Correct, aaron. The increase in streaming and decrease in mail order disks, to include the rising cost per disk, is what I used to project the negative profit as early as January 2016. However, it is not a foregone conclusion that Netflix will drop the mail order disk business when it is no longer producing profits. It's likely they will make every effort to move these remaining disk customers to streaming before kicking them out the door, even if it becomes a loss on the books.

I don't see 3DBRr seeing any significant gain from a Netflix shutdown of the disk business. Red Box certainly will see a little gain. Most will finally move to streaming, kicking and screaming! 3DBRr is just too small and they don't have enough presence to the general public exposure so nobody knows who they are. I don't even think they are big enough to win an investor on Shark Tank to fund an ad campaign. It's a great mom&pop level business that is benefiting from being one of the remaining mom&pop's left in a dying business model. As such, I will continue to support it because it's the only game in the world for this product, i.e. 3D Blu ray disk rentals.
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post #736 of 769 Old 07-01-2015, 10:01 AM
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Correct, aaron. The increase in streaming and decrease in mail order disks, to include the rising cost per disk, is what I used to project the negative profit as early as January 2016. However, it is not a foregone conclusion that Netflix will drop the mail order disk business when it is no longer producing profits. It's likely they will make every effort to move these remaining disk customers to streaming before kicking them out the door, even if it becomes a loss on the books.

I don't see 3DBRr seeing any significant gain from a Netflix shutdown of the disk business. Red Box certainly will see a little gain. Most will finally move to streaming, kicking and screaming! 3DBRr is just too small and they don't have enough presence to the general public exposure so nobody knows who they are. I don't even think they are big enough to win an investor on Shark Tank to fund an ad campaign. It's a great mom&pop level business that is benefiting from being one of the remaining mom&pop's left in a dying business model. As such, I will continue to support it because it's the only game in the world for this product, i.e. 3D Blu ray disk rentals.
what about 3dparty.org? i've never used them myself. it looks like they're a dollar more than 3d bluray rental.
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post #737 of 769 Old 07-01-2015, 10:08 AM
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I thought Netflix was up to 60+ million subscribers now?

Plus that chart is only the subscribers, not the revenue which also needs to be factored. Disc revue accounts for smaller and smaller portion every quarter. And they are already closing more and more distribution centers which has already affected delivery in certain areas. Then add the Post office changes and a large percentage of people have had delivery changes. And all those will affect people leaving. Plus They probably have a certain threshold calculated out to be reached for them to exit the disc rental business. Once the disc revenue gets below a certain percentage or number they will just decide to cede disc rentals to the other players in the markter SInce it takes up a smaller and smaller percentage every quarter.

I guess when that does happen that could be good news for companies like 3d-blurayrental.

Just recently, in Q1 2015, Netflix added 4.9 million streaming subscribers(62.3 million total subs). That number, in one quarter, comes close to equaling all their remaining disc subscribers.

http://variety.com/2015/digital/news...q1-1201473151/
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When Netflix no longer makes money on discs(or drops below a certain revenue level), thats when I expect disc rentals to be dropped. And if their rate of decline for disc revenue continues at the same pace, that should happen within a couple of years.

Less than ten percent of Netflix subscribers rent discs now.
I believe this was current as of Q1 2015 41 million streaming subscribers and 5.56 by mail. I did not look up sales figures, I do not know if they exist for pubic, I only posted number of subscribers because it is a relevant figure and something you directly posted as well.

The big question is how many by mail subscribers also have streaming service? Because Hastings already has said they will not cut off by mail quickly they will let it linger as long as possible. Pissing off customers isn't something they will rush into like they did back in 2011 with Qwikster. The drop in subscribers will likely slow at some point because like I said many don't have a choice and can't stream. Also another important factor is that only a small percentage of content is available for streaming. If you want the majority of their access you still need at least one disc at a time access to pick up the content you can't get by streaming. When you factor in not loosing customers by cutting off by mail and free advertising for streaming service, they can afford to run the by mail service at no profit or at a loss for awhile longer. They don't spend a dime on advertising for by mail and every dvd customer is a potential streaming customer.

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post #738 of 769 Old 07-01-2015, 10:11 AM
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Never heard of them. Thanks for the tip.
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The big question is how many by mail subscribers also have streaming service?
Bingo!

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post #740 of 769 Old 07-01-2015, 12:57 PM
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The big question is how many by mail subscribers also have streaming service?
That was answered. The number of DVD subscribers also includes those who have both services. Therefore the number of DVD only is much less than the total they list. In other words the total is not the sum of the two services. Same goes for the streaming number. Adding the two together would result in a total that is artificially higher. They do not divulge the DVD only subscribers. I think its a way of hiding the real numbers which aren't as high as some think. There is a good reason for them to play this game. Their valuation is based on number of subscribers, not $ profit.
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post #741 of 769 Old 07-01-2015, 07:16 PM
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When Netflix no longer makes money on discs(or drops below a certain revenue level), thats when I expect disc rentals to be dropped. And if their rate of decline for disc revenue continues at the same pace, that should happen within a couple of years.

Less than ten percent of Netflix subscribers rent discs now.
I didn't even know that Netflix still rented discs. I assumed they had phased that out by now.
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post #742 of 769 Old 07-01-2015, 07:32 PM
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That was answered. The number of DVD subscribers also includes those who have both services. Therefore the number of DVD only is much less than the total they list. In other words the total is not the sum of the two services. Same goes for the streaming number. Adding the two together would result in a total that is artificially higher. They do not divulge the DVD only subscribers. I think its a way of hiding the real numbers which aren't as high as some think. There is a good reason for them to play this game. Their valuation is based on number of subscribers, not $ profit.
I know it includes both, hence the question. If it's a large percentage of the 5.56M, Netflix won't be so quick to end DVD by mail. If that percentage begins to lean towards DVD only, they may act sooner as their core customers won't cancel streaming out of spite like they did in '11.

Here's one graph I found showing revenue (see attachment), which Netflix still gets a ton of cash from the DVD side. The revenue is still quite strong, they've built up a name in the DVD business with little competition unlike streaming where they have to compete aggressively. Subscribers have fallen at about 4 percent per quarter while profit has only dropped about 1 percent.

As we all agree it's a dying business. Something will happen in the next five years, hopefully it can hang on awhile longer.
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As we all agree it's a dying business. Something will happen in the next five years, hopefully it can hang on awhile longer.
When/if physical media is gone, that will be the end of genuine consumer movie ownership. (Digital is not ownership, no matter what anyone says. I found that out first-hand.) That will be a sad day for film buffs and collectors.
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When/if physical media is gone, that will be the end of genuine consumer movie ownership. (Digital is not ownership, no matter what anyone says. I found that out first-hand.) That will be a sad day for film buffs and collectors.
Consumers don't own movies, copyright holders do. We just purchase a license to view it at our discretion (non public, home use). Digital downloads offer the same level of discretion while streaming is dependent on a number of factors out of our direct control (i.e. content availability, connection speed). I'd have no problem with digital downloads if it wasn't for my slow ip and monthly data cap which would fall way short of my intake of media. And that's just with CD's, DVD's and BD's to say nothing about the upcoming ultra HD discs.

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post #745 of 769 Old 07-02-2015, 06:37 AM
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Originally Posted by tomtastic View Post
Consumers don't own movies, copyright holders do. We just purchase a license to view it at our discretion (non public, home use). Digital downloads offer the same level of discretion .
Not the same thing. If I purchase, say, an extended version of a movie on disc, I don't have to worry about Best Buy or a studio coming to my house and taking it away from me, or changing the audio,or replacing it with a shorter version, That can (and has) happened with a digital version. You're at the mercy of any changes from the providers. Maybe if you burn it to a disc, but then you're back to physical.
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post #746 of 769 Old 07-02-2015, 07:39 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by film113 View Post
Not the same thing. If I purchase, say, an extended version of a movie on disc, I don't have to worry about Best Buy or a studio coming to my house and taking it away from me, or changing the audio,or replacing it with a shorter version, That can (and has) happened with a digital version. You're at the mercy of any changes from the providers. Maybe if you burn it to a disc, but then you're back to physical.
They could still take it away from you if they require an update to something from the Internet. So I guess as long as the player is never connected to the internet then there could be no issues. But if the playe ris connected to the internet, then there is a way to eliminate playback with a disc.

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post #747 of 769 Unread 07-02-2015, 09:15 AM
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They could still take it away from you if they require an update to something from the Internet. So I guess as long as the player is never connected to the internet then there could be no issues. But if the playe ris connected to the internet, then there is a way to eliminate playback with a disc.
I suppose that is possible, but it's never happened to me with any disc, nor have I ever heard of it happening in all the years I've been getting BDs. However, I have heard of such cases happening to digital purchases and I myself have lost some films, and other movies have had access cut back to laptop only, due to services (CinemaNow) being dropped by hardware provider. But all my discs still are accessible, with all the original content/features and I feel confident they will remain that way. THAT'S how I prefer it when I purchase something. But that's just me.
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post #748 of 769 Unread 07-02-2015, 10:02 AM
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they may act sooner as their core customers won't cancel streaming out of spite like they did in '11.
Tom, IIRC, the mass exodus of subscribers when Netflix threatened to drop DVD mail was mostly analysts making predictions and then press reports based on thiose predictions. In reality the level of subscribers lost hardly amounted to more than just normal loss gain for any month. Later there were much greater losses when Netflix raised it's prices, but even that loss was short lived. The real problem with Netflix is the stock has run up much faster than the real value of the company. BUT, the product offered is in a league all it's own. They are giving the consumer a value that is not equaled, except Amazon comes a distant second. For me it has been a great money maker, trading it with the wide swings of over value - under value.

As for the service of streaming, I find the quality best of breed and best of all, if I get caught with nothing of interest on TV, my library, or Redbox, Netflix always has something I have never seen before that is presented in excellent quality worthy of my home theater and entertains.

The graph you posted leaves lots to question, missing info. Usually I don't like basing my choices on these, rather the actual numbers. On the chart I con't determine if the lines represented gross or net profit. Based on the Netflix CFO statements, the DVD business has a growing cost that far exceeds the streaming per title. That is why in the recent quarterly report they stated that to keep the DVD business in the Black, price increases may become significant and this may have a serious affect on the number of subscriber losses further exacerbating the decline of that revenue stream.
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The distribution of media is not just digital streaming and hard media. It also includes digital downloads. While streaming can disappear on you, unless you stream and use your own capture device to save it to your own hard storage, digital downloads are directly saved to your own storage. Presently the latest 4K media from Sony, I know works on this principle.

I think, all media has a level of vulnerability for loss and it's up to you to be prepared for that. Some preservation insurance is more complex than others but I know of no streaming or digital downloads that puts one at the mercy of the supplier snatching it back if you protect your purchase. If you value your streaming license for lifetime titles, best to insure those titles are stored on your own media. How you do that is a matter of technology.
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post #750 of 769 Unread 07-02-2015, 11:02 AM
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Originally Posted by film113 View Post
Not the same thing. If I purchase, say, an extended version of a movie on disc, I don't have to worry about Best Buy or a studio coming to my house and taking it away from me, or changing the audio,or replacing it with a shorter version, That can (and has) happened with a digital version. You're at the mercy of any changes from the providers. Maybe if you burn it to a disc, but then you're back to physical.
WTF???

No one has control over my digital media, other than me and that will not change. It's no different than physical media.

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