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post #751 of 769 Old 07-02-2015, 11:10 AM
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Originally Posted by film113 View Post
Not the same thing. If I purchase, say, an extended version of a movie on disc, I don't have to worry about Best Buy or a studio coming to my house and taking it away from me, or changing the audio,or replacing it with a shorter version, That can (and has) happened with a digital version. You're at the mercy of any changes from the providers. Maybe if you burn it to a disc, but then you're back to physical.
LOL! Where do you live? Berlin, 1939? So they can take your HDD but not discs?

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post #752 of 769 Old 07-02-2015, 11:54 AM
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WTF???

No one has control over my digital media, other than me and that will not change. It's no different than physical media.
You tell that to the people who purchased the director's cut of BEDKNOBS & BROOMSTICKS and then found out later that it was replaced with the shorter theatrical cut. If you think that would also have happened if it were on disc, then that's your prerogative. Nor did I have control of a couple movies I had on CinemaNow that disappeared when Sony dropped the service. Or when the audio went from 5.1 to Dolby Pro-logic. The control you believe you have exists only as long as the companies allow it. Enjoy!
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post #753 of 769 Old 07-02-2015, 12:18 PM
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Originally Posted by film113 View Post
I suppose that is possible, but it's never happened to me with any disc, nor have I ever heard of it happening in all the years I've been getting BDs. However, I have heard of such cases happening to digital purchases and I myself have lost some films, and other movies have had access cut back to laptop only, due to services (CinemaNow) being dropped by hardware provider. But all my discs still are accessible, with all the original content/features and I feel confident they will remain that way. THAT'S how I prefer it when I purchase something. But that's just me.
So far I have yet to lose any digital movie/tv show purcahses(at least that I'm aware of). Even the first ones that were available from XBOX Live are still accessible to me.

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post #754 of 769 Old 07-02-2015, 01:13 PM
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You tell that to the people who purchased the director's cut of BEDKNOBS & BROOMSTICKS and then found out later that it was replaced with the shorter theatrical cut. If you think that would also have happened if it were on disc, then that's your prerogative. Nor did I have control of a couple movies I had on CinemaNow that disappeared when Sony dropped the service. Or when the audio went from 5.1 to Dolby Pro-logic. The control you believe you have exists only as long as the companies allow it. Enjoy!
Dolby Pro Logic is an analog decoding process based on phase differences in analog stereo 2 channel audio tracks. Your claim makes no sense. It is not possible for any content supplier to control the settings on your AVR to switch it from AC3 Dolby Digital to Dolby Pro Logic. AC3 Dolby Digital allows for both 5.1 channels and 2 channel stereo encoded in the original. Dolby Prologic can decode the 2 channel stereo to any number of 2 to 4 channel placements from the analog Left and right channels. My guess is you were thinking- the content provider can eliminate the 5.1 digital channels and leave the AC3 stereo but the audio is still digital AC3 encoded. Dolby Pro Logic works with VHS tape. Streaming any analog audio doesn't make sense.
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post #755 of 769 Old 07-02-2015, 01:43 PM
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You tell that to the people who purchased the director's cut of BEDKNOBS & BROOMSTICKS and then found out later that it was replaced with the shorter theatrical cut. If you think that would also have happened if it were on disc, then that's your prerogative. Nor did I have control of a couple movies I had on CinemaNow that disappeared when Sony dropped the service. Or when the audio went from 5.1 to Dolby Pro-logic. The control you believe you have exists only as long as the companies allow it. Enjoy!
Where was this content stored? On you're personal equipment or their's? If it's on their equipment it's not a digital download. Maybe you're categorizing streaming and digital as the same thing which they're not.

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post #756 of 769 Old 07-02-2015, 02:34 PM
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Dolby Pro Logic is an analog decoding process based on phase differences in analog stereo 2 channel audio tracks. Your claim makes no sense. It is not possible for any content supplier to control the settings on your AVR to switch it from AC3 Dolby Digital to Dolby Pro Logic. AC3 Dolby Digital allows for both 5.1 channels and 2 channel stereo encoded in the original. Dolby Prologic can decode the 2 channel stereo to any number of 2 to 4 channel placements from the analog Left and right channels. My guess is you were thinking- the content provider can eliminate the 5.1 digital channels and leave the AC3 stereo but the audio is still digital AC3 encoded. Dolby Pro Logic works with VHS tape. Streaming any analog audio doesn't make sense.
Yes, you are correct. I did not mean to imply that they changed the hardware settings,..that is just how the receiver now identifies what was previously 5.1. The change to the content would have come from CinemaNow. Perhaps I should have stated Dolby Stereo.
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post #757 of 769 Old 07-02-2015, 02:39 PM
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Where was this content stored? On you're personal equipment or their's? If it's on their equipment it's not a digital download. Maybe you're categorizing streaming and digital as the same thing which they're not.
They were Vudu digital purchases, stored on the Vudu site according to those who were affected. (I was not a purchaser.)
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post #758 of 769 Old 07-02-2015, 02:56 PM
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They were Vudu digital purchases, stored on the Vudu site according to those who were affected. (I was not a purchaser.)
So not stored locally?

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post #759 of 769 Old 07-02-2015, 03:21 PM
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So far I have yet to lose any digital movie/tv show purcahses(at least that I'm aware of). Even the first ones that were available from XBOX Live are still accessible to me.
That's great! And I hope that will always remain the case. Don't get me wrong, I'm not trying to say that this is a chronic situation...just that what I've experienced (and some issues that others have reported) indicates (to me) that digital is not the same as genuine ownership. I'm not trying to say that these cases are the norm. But a digital purchase can be changed, lost, or removed if the powers-that-be wish it. As Don Landis stated, even if it seems unlikely, it's best to be prepared for possible loss by backing-up your purchase if you opt to buy digital. Me, I'll just stick with the no-muss, no-fuss BDs. I don't have to ever worry that, say, My WATCHMEN Ultimate Cut will be replaced by the theatrical cut, just because Warners wants to. Nor do I have to back it up onto some other platform.

Hopefully, that will be the case with most digital purchases as well. But I do like paying less and getting the best audio/video performance available, without compromise, and secure that it will remain that way. (Especially if I ever have the equipment to fully take the best advantage of it...Atmos isn't even remotely on my horizon!) I would not have that confidence or performance with digital. But again, that's just my preference. Pay less and get more agrees with me.
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post #760 of 769 Old 07-02-2015, 04:19 PM
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So not stored locally?
Can't answer that, as there were many people complaining and I can't recall how or if they were stored outside of Vudu.
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post #761 of 769 Old 07-02-2015, 04:53 PM
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You may be referring to cloud based content which I would throw in with streaming. Same with Xbox Live or Sony. Even though the content might be stored locally (Xbox, PS3) in these cases it is controlled through their software. I know with Xbox I had purchased some digital games once and they would only show up if I was online and signed into Xbox live. Once I discovered that's the way they operated I ceased all purchasing with Xbox live. I know Playstation didn't do this at the time so I switched. Still, with movies I would never bother with these systems as it's under someone else's control.

Streaming and cloud service, I agree, they have control over that now and in the future. If you are a movie collector I wouldn't use those services. But I think you may be throwing digital into that category too, which it shouldn't be. There's virtually no difference between what a digital download is (as far as ownership) and what physical media is. There may be differences in quality and specs, I can't say in every case. And this is my main concern, for now I'm sticking with physical discs and making my own digital content. But discs won't be around forever. I would reason that since technology is always improving, there will be consumers that will demand equal quality content.

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post #762 of 769 Old Yesterday, 02:32 AM
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Actually, all vudu content is stored on Vudu's servers and is streamed whenever you access it. They do not use any digital download. Sony network does and will store a purchased movie on your PS3. I have a number of 3D games and a movie, that I purchased that are no longer available but I still have them as I chose to down load.

To archive any Vudu content, requires a special process not commonly known. Tom you know what I am talking about. Your original idea. Cloud is not necessarily a streaming only, it can be both.

The ONLY issue I have with disks, is non availability of any particular title. Those who stubbornly refuse to use streaming or other digital content when available to them, will have to do without anything, if streaming service is the only way to get it. There are some titles that are only available anywhere in the world by streaming. If you refuse that, then you are choosing to treat that title as if it doesn't exist. If a title is important to me, I will get it by the best option available. Then once I have that, I will make the effort to preserve that title against loss by creating my own backup.


film113- On the Dolby analog confusion. I kind of figured you were just a bit technically challenged on the details. Basically all digital is converted to analog for listening anyway. But, the loss of 5.1 in the AC3 encoded audio is a change that has to be done back at the supplier. There is no significant advantage to doing this but may be a way to limit the content to encourage purchase of the hard media. As for how your AVR handles the loss of 5.1, the way you describe is strange. I have only experience with three types of AVR's. Denon, Sony, and an old Techniques. All of them have options to set the default to stereo, Dolby Pro Logic ( and all the various flavors of DPL) as well as the DTS settings. My Denon is set to default to DTS 7.1 Master audio if available in the stream. On CD's and phono records the audio is set to default to Analog stereo. These options are something you usually can select in the setup menu's I suggest you consult your manual to learn how that is done. The Techniques I bought over 20 years ago and it allows different setups but none for digital as that AVR was pre-digital audio. I think if your AVR is a modern design you should be able to select a default to even Dolby Pro Logic decoded from source 2.0 to output 7.1. I have my Denon set up this way. It's not discrete audio, but takes advantage of your entire sound stage from just 2 channels.
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post #763 of 769 Old Yesterday, 08:52 AM
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Right, I looked up Vudu yesterday just to be clear, I see they are a cloud service. Even their disc to digital service is misleading. They don't actually use the data on your disc if I'm reading this correctly. They provide a service that a select number of titles are available for 2.00 if you have the disc. If it wasn't cloud based they could convert discs on the spot, but it's studio supported and only on titles they've approved so the data you're streaming isn't the data on the disc.

Were you able to get that method working? Send me a PM. There's been a few titles on Cine3D like Seventh Son, I think that one isn't on disc yet or locally on disc, but haven't bothered with them right now.

There's Digital HD from Amazon and iTunes. I know with iTunes there is DRM (see DRM Remove) Amazon may have their own too, haven't used yet, but I'm sure you can deal with it. Not sure about Sony and Xbox, I haven't used them for movies before but since they're closed systems I wouldn't for movies. This is the digital I'm referring to, not the cloud or streaming, which in those cases, yes I agree with film113 100 percent.

As a movie collector they would not fit within my collecting habits. I don't want to depend on internet speed or online issues to playback content. Yes, I could even see them changing the content on their end from the original version you bought. If you don't have it locally at time of purchase there's a big risk there. That just isn't the future for movie collecting for me. But I think iTunes and Amazon would work fine as they offer download. However one thing of note in many cases the Blu ray is far cheaper than the download, prices fall quicker on discs yet they remain the same for digital -the Digital versions don't reflect a competitive price to used discs.

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post #764 of 769 Old Yesterday, 09:25 AM
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Seventh Son is out on BD. I have it from Amazon.UK It's an OK movie but not worth the price. Wish I would have waited and rented from 3DBr. Just got the Jupiter's Landing in from them. Didn't think that one would be worth owning either. But, good for a one time view as a 3DBRr. Hope I'm not wrong or I may be ordering that one as well.
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post #765 of 769 Old Yesterday, 10:05 AM
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I read Jupiter wasn't great either, thanks for heads up on Seventh.

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post #766 of 769 Old Yesterday, 10:23 AM
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I've now exceeded 100 BR Disks in 3D and my cabinet is full. I have probably watched only a couple more than once, so I may be getting a bit picky these days on what I own on disk.
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post #767 of 769 Old Yesterday, 10:51 AM
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Good reason to go with 3D Blu-ray rental, try before you buy. I think I'm at 100 too or close to it, need to recount.

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post #768 of 769 Old Yesterday, 02:10 PM
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Yes, just wish the new titles wouldn't take almost a month to get here. Hopefully that will get resolved.

That other service, I looked over and it seems most of the titles are old.

Anyway, Jupiter Ascending is in the house and I'm looking forward to seeing it tonight.

I've rented 6 titles from Red Box this week. They keep sending me deals on rent one get one which makes my price about $1.25. can't beat that!
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post #769 of 769 Old Today, 08:26 AM
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Jupiter Ascending was a good action SciFi story that has an interesting twist. Explains the whole God is an Alien theory in the fiction. We enjoyed it but the first hour didn't make much sense as I did not know the story before. Now, I will watch it again before returning the rental as I think I will enjoy the 3D and visual and action scenes better.

It had excellent quality 3D, the image was a tad soft on my big screen. The sound was big, be sure to crank up the volume if your system has the power.


I would not have been disappointed had I purchased this title, but now that I've rented it it does not rise to the level of space on my shelf. Watching twice will be enough for me and then back it goes.

Thank you 3BR for finally getting this one shipped to me.
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