Interesting article on msn yesterday about 3d - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 31 Old 06-14-2011, 11:39 AM - Thread Starter
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I saw this article on msn yesterday. Has some interesting point of view.

http://today.msnbc.msn.com/id/432296...entertainment/

Love sports, movies, and games. Slowly some day I'll add a projector and screen. Until then, I'll build up my library.
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post #2 of 31 Old 06-14-2011, 12:14 PM
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Originally Posted by lpnaz480 View Post

I saw this article on msn yesterday. Has some interesting point of view.

http://today.msnbc.msn.com/id/432296...entertainment/

just a bunch of haters...

nearly every article is the same chit!

stupid really. they keep on saying stuff like this.. it breeds haters.

like how in the gaming scene.. final fantasy xiii is the best thing to hate on... and it's "cool" to hate on it.. because all the reviewers constantly use it in their puns and everyone passes the buck onwards...

3d is the same.. people parrot everything they hear about it.

like the parrots of plasma.. too..

very stupid.

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post #3 of 31 Old 06-14-2011, 12:24 PM - Thread Starter
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I see some optimism in this article tho. There's no way 3d just vanishes. All the tv manufacturers have to much invested in it. Once these exclusives go away and people can freely buy any 3d movie at $30 the market will be open. My roommate and his girl watched avatar on my new tv last night and their argument was having to wear glasses but once the opening scene started their perspective totally changed.

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post #4 of 31 Old 06-15-2011, 05:30 AM
 
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I'd prefer to see a lot less conversions, and more natively filmed movies.
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post #5 of 31 Old 06-15-2011, 06:57 AM
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Originally Posted by lpnaz480 View Post

I saw this article on msn yesterday. Has some interesting point of view.

http://today.msnbc.msn.com/id/432296...entertainment/

Yikes. I can't speak for the cinemas and his figures are probably correct, but my home theater can't get enough 3D right now. Perhaps, in time, some of my enthusiasm will fade...but I hope not.
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post #6 of 31 Old 06-15-2011, 07:13 AM
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Originally Posted by lpnaz480 View Post

I see some optimism in this article tho. There's no way 3d just vanishes. All the tv manufacturers have to much invested in it. Once these exclusives go away and people can freely buy any 3d movie at $30 the market will be open. My roommate and his girl watched avatar on my new tv last night and their argument was having to wear glasses but once the opening scene started their perspective totally changed.

Exactly. Anyone who has invested in 3D at home knows how quickly ambivalence and complaints go out the window. When people are actually sitting on my couch watching my potato cod reference material tickle their nose, "don't like it", becomes "holy ****".
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post #7 of 31 Old 06-15-2011, 09:35 AM - Thread Starter
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Exactly. Anyone who has invested in 3D at home knows how quickly ambivalence and complaints go out the window. When people are actually sitting on my couch watching my potato cod reference material tickle their nose, "don't like it", becomes "holy ****".

Right?! It's going to be like every other new technology. The old timers who hate change. This has happened with cell phones, computers, now HDTV and blu ray. Once people experience it and the selection is better more positive opinions will come out

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post #8 of 31 Old 06-15-2011, 12:07 PM
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Don't see anything wrong with that article. I swore I would never buy a 3d tv. Well its really hard to find a medium to higher end tv these days that is not 3d, so the consumer is forced into it. So then I thought, oh well, I'm getting a 3d bluray player for free, I'll just sell it. I don't have any 3d glasses or 3d content so oh well. Then I was able to get the avatar starter kit for free with 2 glasses, so now I'm going to keep the 3d blu-ray player and sell my oppo non-3d blu-ray player. Will I ever buy another 3d movie? Probably not. There is next to zero 3d content available on TimeWarner, I refuse to spend $10 for their 3d pass to get 1 channel (espn3d which doesn't play much of anything anyways).

There are a lot of negatives to the whole 3d fad/craze/thing. If the studios are noticing that sales are down compared to the 2d releases then they will start cutting back on green lighting 3d movies. I just wish the manufacturers would have put the money they put into 3d tech into increasing the performance of the tv's and reducing costs of larger screens. Plus there is no standard! Samsung glasses don't work on panasonic tv's and the other way around. There needs to be a standard for transmission, I should be able to take my 2 panasonic glasses over to a friends house and use them on his mitsubishi tv. Otherwise what is the point? I don't consider this to be new tech anymore, it has been out for awhile and this stuff should be sorted out by now but its not.

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post #9 of 31 Old 06-15-2011, 01:41 PM
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Don't see anything wrong with that article. I swore I would never buy a 3d tv. Well its really hard to find a medium to higher end tv these days that is not 3d, so the consumer is forced into it. So then I thought, oh well, I'm getting a 3d bluray player for free, I'll just sell it. I don't have any 3d glasses or 3d content so oh well. Then I was able to get the avatar starter kit for free with 2 glasses, so now I'm going to keep the 3d blu-ray player and sell my oppo non-3d blu-ray player. Will I ever buy another 3d movie? Probably not. There is next to zero 3d content available on TimeWarner, I refuse to spend $10 for their 3d pass to get 1 channel (espn3d which doesn't play much of anything anyways).

There are a lot of negatives to the whole 3d fad/craze/thing. If the studios are noticing that sales are down compared to the 2d releases then they will start cutting back on green lighting 3d movies. I just wish the manufacturers would have put the money they put into 3d tech into increasing the performance of the tv's and reducing costs of larger screens. Plus there is no standard! Samsung glasses don't work on panasonic tv's and the other way around. There needs to be a standard for transmission, I should be able to take my 2 panasonic glasses over to a friends house and use them on his mitsubishi tv. Otherwise what is the point? I don't consider this to be new tech anymore, it has been out for awhile and this stuff should be sorted out by now but its not.

You're right. The industry does need to mature - from manufacturers using proprietary glasses to film makers bastardizing 3D for cheap gain.

But that doesn't mean 3D itself is a bad thing. It's the myopic producers and manufacturers causing the problem.
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post #10 of 31 Old 06-15-2011, 02:01 PM
 
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Originally Posted by 3Daddicted View Post

You're right. The industry does need to mature - from manufacturers using proprietary glasses to film makers bastardizing 3D for cheap gain.

But that doesn't mean 3D itself is a bad thing. It's the myopic producers and manufacturers causing the problem.

Putting on the manufacturers suit for a minute . . .

How would it be good for my business if my glasses work with another CEM's 3DTV? We are already in a price war for the TVs themselves, now we should get into a price war for the glasses too?

Selling a 3DTV also means selling the consumer our glasses. More money in our coffers.

When you buy a Gillete razor, do Schick blades fit it?
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post #11 of 31 Old 06-15-2011, 02:03 PM
 
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Originally Posted by MikeAlletto View Post

Don't see anything wrong with that article. I swore I would never buy a 3d tv. Well its really hard to find a medium to higher end tv these days that is not 3d, so the consumer is forced into it. So then I thought, oh well, I'm getting a 3d bluray player for free, I'll just sell it. I don't have any 3d glasses or 3d content so oh well. Then I was able to get the avatar starter kit for free with 2 glasses, so now I'm going to keep the 3d blu-ray player and sell my oppo non-3d blu-ray player. Will I ever buy another 3d movie? Probably not. There is next to zero 3d content available on TimeWarner, I refuse to spend $10 for their 3d pass to get 1 channel (espn3d which doesn't play much of anything anyways).

There are a lot of negatives to the whole 3d fad/craze/thing. If the studios are noticing that sales are down compared to the 2d releases then they will start cutting back on green lighting 3d movies. I just wish the manufacturers would have put the money they put into 3d tech into increasing the performance of the tv's and reducing costs of larger screens. Plus there is no standard! Samsung glasses don't work on panasonic tv's and the other way around. There needs to be a standard for transmission, I should be able to take my 2 panasonic glasses over to a friends house and use them on his mitsubishi tv. Otherwise what is the point? I don't consider this to be new tech anymore, it has been out for awhile and this stuff should be sorted out by now but its not.

So what increases in performance did you have in mind?

Your budget is $50. That's about how much the parts cost for the 3D feature.
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post #12 of 31 Old 06-15-2011, 02:03 PM
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Originally Posted by Lee Stewart View Post

Putting on the manufacturers suit for a minute . . .

Hhow would it be good for my business if my glasses work with another CEM's 3DTV? We are already in a price war for the TVs themselves, now we should get into a price war for the glasses too?

Selling a 3DTV also means selling the consumer our glasses. More money in our coffers.

When you buy a Gillete razor, do Schick blades fit it?

Lee hits the nail on the head .. again ..

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post #13 of 31 Old 06-15-2011, 02:27 PM
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Putting on the manufacturers suit for a minute . . .

How would it be good for my business if my glasses work with another CEM's 3DTV? We are already in a price war for the TVs themselves, now we should get into a price war for the glasses too?

Selling a 3DTV also means selling the consumer our glasses. More money in our coffers.

When you buy a Gillete razor, do Schick blades fit it?


If the glasses cost as little as a box of razors you'd have a point but they get really expensive really quickly. Furthermore, 3D is confusing enough for the average consumer. Between current cost and complexity, standardized glasses is the least the manufacturers can do.
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Originally Posted by 3Daddicted View Post

If the glasses cost as little as a box of razors you'd have a point but they get really expensive really quickly. Furthermore, 3D is confusing enough for the average consumer. Between current cost and complexity, standardized glasses is the least the manufacturers can do.

Since when has "the average consumer" purchased new CE technology? Isn't that the realm of the Early Adopter? And isn't the EA a more knowledgeable buyer than Joe Six Pack?

The idea from the manufacturer's standpoint is to produce a new high margin product because the margins have been shrinking selling HDTVs due to the price competition. Each year the prices fall. You think the manufacturing process gets cheaper each year?
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Originally Posted by Lee Stewart View Post

Putting on the manufacturers suit for a minute . . .

How would it be good for my business if my glasses work with another CEM's 3DTV? We are already in a price war for the TVs themselves, now we should get into a price war for the glasses too?

Selling a 3DTV also means selling the consumer our glasses. More money in our coffers.

When you buy a Gillete razor, do Schick blades fit it?

That's why I switched to a standard safety razor...
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post #16 of 31 Old 06-15-2011, 03:23 PM
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That's why I switched to a standard safety razor...

Ouch .. left those behind a long, long time ago ..

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post #17 of 31 Old 06-15-2011, 03:32 PM
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Originally Posted by 3Daddicted View Post

If the glasses cost as little as a box of razors you'd have a point but they get really expensive really quickly. Furthermore, 3D is confusing enough for the average consumer. Between current cost and complexity, standardized glasses is the least the manufacturers can do.

There are any number of proprietary goods out there, both in and outside the World of CE .. this phenomena, if you have not heard, is to force brand loyalty as well as beef up profits ..

I could make a list that would be the size of a dictionary ..

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post #18 of 31 Old 06-15-2011, 04:10 PM
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Originally Posted by MikeAlletto View Post

Don't see anything wrong with that article. I swore I would never buy a 3d tv. Well its really hard to find a medium to higher end tv these days that is not 3d, so the consumer is forced into it. So then I thought, oh well, I'm getting a 3d bluray player for free, I'll just sell it. I don't have any 3d glasses or 3d content so oh well. Then I was able to get the avatar starter kit for free with 2 glasses, so now I'm going to keep the 3d blu-ray player and sell my oppo non-3d blu-ray player. Will I ever buy another 3d movie? Probably not. There is next to zero 3d content available on TimeWarner, I refuse to spend $10 for their 3d pass to get 1 channel (espn3d which doesn't play much of anything anyways).

Perhaps you might enlighten us as to why you're posting in the 3D Content forum.

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Plus there is no standard! Samsung glasses don't work on panasonic tv's and the other way around.

Does a Samsung TV remote control work with a Panasonic TV? It doesn't? OMG, what a scam!!

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post #19 of 31 Old 06-15-2011, 06:28 PM
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That's where Ultimate 3d Heaven comes in. Why buy from the manufacturer of the tv if their 3d glasses cost more and aren't as good?
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If condescension is the best you can bring to a discussion, put me on your ignore list please.


@Lee

We're often on the same page but we disagree over this. I can be generous towards the manufacturers and I'm sure you can make a sound argument, but as a 3D consumer, proprietary and expensive glasses turn me off. If they were affordable enough to buy in quantity I would be more forgiving and I'm betting others would as well. But that's not the reality of it.

In 15 months their cost has dropped from $150 a pair to $50 a pair. The price will continue to drop like all CE products.
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post #21 of 31 Old 06-16-2011, 09:13 AM
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Perhaps you might enlighten us as to why you're posting in the 3D Content forum.

Oh I don't know maybe because I own a 3d tv and own 3d glasses and own a 3d blu-ray player but the only reason I have the tv is I don't really have a choice. I own the glasses and blu-ray player because they were free. This is about content is it not? There isn't much content, which is a problem which is one of the sticking points of the article, hence I'm completely on topic.

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So what increases in performance did you have in mind?

Who knows what they could have spent R&D on instead of the 3d tech? I don't make TV's or tv technology for a living so how am I supposed to know?

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Does a Samsung TV remote control work with a Panasonic TV? It doesn't? OMG, what a scam!!

Not valid. If you buy a samsung tv it comes with a samsung remote, if you buy a panasonic tv it will come with a remote. So why would you have a samsung tv and a panasonic tv in the same space wanting to be controlled by each others remotes? OMG makes no sense.

As far as the razor analogy I completely understand why one manufacturer would not want their glasses working on another, but at the same time there is a point where their needs to be standards. What if one manufacturers tv didn't work with a cable providers signal but only worked with Direct TV? Or what if a manufacturer decided that they were going to only support their proprietary version of HDMI that was not the same as everyone else? Presenting 3d to the user is just like hooking up a connecting cable, all the cables work among all manufacturers, so to should 3d glasses. They can do what they want with internal processing to make the display of 3d better than a competitor, use that as a selling point, but the glasses themselves should be universal. If they want to get into the glasses business then fine. Make a lighter more comfortable more stylish pair than your competitor. Make the battery life last months of use. There are a ton of things they can do that has nothing to do with how the glasses interact and display the image to the consumer that can be just as profitable to them.

As a consumer I do not care one bit about the manufacturers ability to make profit. Put out a good product and profit follows. If some company is having problems making money then either figure it out or close up shop. The proprietary 3d glasses just screams money grab.

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post #22 of 31 Old 06-16-2011, 12:46 PM
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You can buy universal 3D glasses from 3rd party vendors, just as you can buy universal remotes.

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post #23 of 31 Old 06-16-2011, 03:30 PM
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Not valid. If you buy a samsung tv it comes with a samsung remote, if you buy a panasonic tv it will come with a remote. So why would you have a samsung tv and a panasonic tv in the same space wanting to be controlled by each others remotes? OMG makes no sense.

As a consumer I do not care one bit about the manufacturers ability to make profit. Put out a good product and profit follows. If some company is having problems making money then either figure it out or close up shop. The proprietary 3d glasses just screams money grab.

So no one should have two different makes of TV in the same room .. ??

As well, there have been many, many good products unable to capture a profit .. good does not equate to profit ..

And all proprietary products are a money grab .. that's why they are proprietarty .. otherwise, we'd have standard universal everything .. no .. ??

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post #24 of 31 Old 06-26-2011, 03:32 PM
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Guys, history and the market always pan these matters out. Remember 8 track and cassette? Cassette won out. Remember Beta vs VHS? VHS won out. Remember HDDVD and BlyRay? BluRay won out.

It simply takes time for the dust to settle and the champion emerge. We, the early adopters, are just entering 2nd Gen 3d. "In time", and history proves this out, well have the 'standard'.

And, rest assured, once it's adopted the 'geewiz' boys will do it all over again. Technology is relentless.

Does anybody here really think we'll be embracing this technology 10 years from now?
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post #25 of 31 Old 06-26-2011, 03:48 PM
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Does anybody here really think we'll be embracing this technology 10 years from now?


You mean current 3D technology, or 3D in general?

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post #26 of 31 Old 06-26-2011, 07:16 PM
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You mean current 3D technology, or 3D in general?

Current, of course. Heck, a decade from now we might see 'roll up' or even holographic displays. Imagine 3D with no screen at all.
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post #27 of 31 Old 06-26-2011, 08:17 PM
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Current, of course. Heck, a decade from now we might see 'roll up' or even holographic displays. Imagine 3D with no screen at all.


Or maybe "Movie Implants"

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post #28 of 31 Old 06-27-2011, 03:13 AM
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I think its inevitable that theatre ticket sales for 3D movies will fall back over time but I don't see them dropping to a level where Hollywood will decide to stop releasing 3D movies altogether. There are too many of us that really like 3D!

They still have not learned the lesson that James Cameron mentioned way back when Avatar was released though which is that bad 2D-3D conversion will do nothing but damage 3D in the minds of the consumer.

Done well 3D presentations with the right genres bring in decent audience numbers, done badly they don't, its that simple in my opinion.
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post #29 of 31 Old 06-27-2011, 07:37 AM
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Originally Posted by cbcdesign View Post

I think its inevitable that theatre ticket sales for 3D movies will fall back over time but I don't see them dropping to a level where Hollywood will decide to stop releasing 3D movies altogether. There are too many of us that really like 3D!

They still have not learned the lesson that James Cameron mentioned way back when Avatar was released though which is that bad 2D-3D conversion will do nothing but damage 3D in the minds of the consumer.

Done well 3D presentations with the right genres bring in decent audience numbers, done badly they don't, its that simple in my opinion.


Exactly. People feel ripped off and rightly so, they have spent all this extra $$ on "3D" movies and they sit through them with glasses on and there is hardly any 3D to be seen. It really is amazing how Hollywood has screwed this up

3D needs to go back to being for special event movies only, like Transformers 3, The Hobbit, Avatar 2 etc.

I go down easy, but I come out fightin'!
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post #30 of 31 Old 06-27-2011, 08:17 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jb11 View Post

Exactly. People feel ripped off and rightly so, they have spent all this extra $$ on "3D" movies and they sit through them with glasses on and there is hardly any 3D to be seen. It really is amazing how Hollywood has screwed this up

If you think Hollywood screwed up 3D just take a look at what it did to 2D!
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