Seriously... are they TRYING to kill Bluray 3D, or are they just stupid? - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 137 Old 10-06-2011, 04:16 AM - Thread Starter
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So you get all invested in 3D, right? Build a super system, lay the deck out...

And ALL you want to do is be able to COUNT on the fact, that when they make a new Bluray release of some wildly dramatic and popular 3D movie, that they will release the Bluray 3D also.

After all, we are paying a premium for this, RIGHT?

[rant] But NOOoooooo..... Here we have Harry Potter and Transformers being released as BLURAY ONLY, with no 3D for me and you, the ONLY people who have actually already BOUGHT the format and are SUPPORTING IT....

So Transformers looks to be Michael Bay wanting to have a "special 3D" release and he's "not ready yet" - so I get to wait another 5 months till its totally stale, and everyone else has already watched the regular 2D version on DVD, Bluray, Apple TV, Netflix, you name it....

And Harry Potter is now exclusive to Sony, so the only way an EXISTING Bluray 3D supporter can get it is to buy another 3 system from Sony, or scrounge eBay or Amazon.co.uk ... "New Customers Only"

ENOUGH ALREADY!

This is the Netflix business model (the new BAD one) where you pay MORE but get to wait MONTHS longer than everyone else because you already bought into and supported the format.

**** this...

Message to studios - If you're not ready to release the 3D Bluray on the same date as the regular Bluray then you are an idiot. But rolling it back a few extra months after the regular Bluray release just says you don't give a Damn about those already supporting the format - and essentially means you don't care much about the format itself either!

[/rant]
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post #2 of 137 Old 10-06-2011, 04:42 AM
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Transformers 3 will be released in december, 3 months, not 5. It was released in theaters only 4 months ago btw.

As for Harry Potter...it was converted. If I were equipped with 3D, I wouldn't get anything other than 3d native films, but that's just me.
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post #3 of 137 Old 10-06-2011, 05:05 AM
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Not even close to 5 months, but just over 2 assuming the early Dec date is correct.

As for HP, I could not care less since that movie will be so dark in general I have no interest viewing in 3d.

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post #4 of 137 Old 10-06-2011, 05:11 AM
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Yes 3D is treated as a gimmick by the studios, and because of that treatment it won't shake that stigma of gimmickry.

The proper setting for sharpness is always0.
Also my Oppo BDP-103D is region free.
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post #5 of 137 Old 10-06-2011, 05:19 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Morpheo View Post

As for Harry Potter...it was converted. If I were equipped with 3D, I wouldn't get anything other than 3d native films, but that's just me.

I'm starting to go this route also, although The Lion King is an impressive convert.

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post #6 of 137 Old 10-06-2011, 05:39 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rdjam View Post

So you get all invested in 3D, right? Build a super system, lay the deck out...

And ALL you want to do is be able to COUNT on the fact, that when they make a new Bluray release of some wildly dramatic and popular 3D movie, that they will release the Bluray 3D also.

After all, we are paying a premium for this, RIGHT?

[rant] But NOOoooooo..... Here we have Harry Potter and Transformers being released as BLURAY ONLY, with no 3D for me and you, the ONLY people who have actually already BOUGHT the format and are SUPPORTING IT....

So Transformers looks to be Michael Bay wanting to have a "special 3D" release and he's "not ready yet" - so I get to wait another 5 months till its totally stale, and everyone else has already watched the regular 2D version on DVD, Bluray, Apple TV, Netflix, you name it....

And Harry Potter is now exclusive to Sony, so the only way an EXISTING Bluray 3D supporter can get it is to buy another 3 system from Sony, or scrounge eBay or Amazon.co.uk ... "New Customers Only"

ENOUGH ALREADY!

This is the Netflix business model (the new BAD one) where you pay MORE but get to wait MONTHS longer than everyone else because you already bought into and supported the format.

**** this...

Message to studios - If you're not ready to release the 3D Bluray on the same date as the regular Bluray then you are an idiot. But rolling it back a few extra months after the regular Bluray release just says you don't give a Damn about those already supporting the format - and essentially means you don't care much about the format itself either!

[/rant]

I think the reason why you think 'they' are killing 3-D is they see little chance of revenue in this gimmickry. They're going to bail before they lose even more money.

I think it is a theater only thing... and better serves gamers.

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post #7 of 137 Old 10-06-2011, 05:48 AM
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They want it to be punitively difficult outside the theater, and I understand that.

The proper setting for sharpness is always0.
Also my Oppo BDP-103D is region free.
That makes me awesome.
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post #8 of 137 Old 10-06-2011, 06:09 AM
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I almost wrote a post on this when I saw Transformers 3 wasn't getting a 3D release day and date with the 2D. I decided to hold off on watch/purchasing because of this too...

So do studios really want to push 3D?

1) 3D titles that are not day and date released with the 2D --- ESPECIALLY when it's a native 3D shot film.. this is just plain wrong. If someone buys the 2D version, they are less likely to buy the 3D version ... so this slows sales. Avatar, Transformers 3, Alice in Wonderland, Toy Story 3, Megamind, etc
2) High prices - how often do you see sales on 3D titles from major studios? Even new releases are typically $28-30.
3) Exclusives --While the studios can get a guaranteed paycheck for a 3D title by Samsung and Panasonic, it doesn't help someone who pays 2-3K for a TV and then has nothing to watch.
4) Exclusives pt 2 - So after being exclusive to Samsung/Panasonic/Sony, titles then become store exclusive which keeps prices above $30... mainly Dreamworks.

With Movie theaters, Sony said they'd stop providing the 2D polarized glasses -- movie theaters have to purchase their own... this means the price of 3D movies will go up. In return, people will less likely choose the 3D option... end result... 3D may disappear again...

With TVs, there's the whole active shutter vs passive glasses... incompatible active shutter glasses (though they are working on this i think).

The other thing is that the 2D conversions are probably killing 3D as well.. Who wants to pay an extra 3-5 bucks for 3D when a good amount of them aren't even true 3D? The Lion King was well done, but even as much money as was put into this, it still looked 2.5D to me. And that was one of the better ones... Thor, Green Lantern, Captain America, etc all had conversions which weren't done very well... Even a good chunk of Transformers 3 isn't true 3D.

What will probably happen is 3D will stick around but be limited to major movies.. this may be a good thing though assuming they actually release the 3D version on blu-ray!!

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post #9 of 137 Old 10-06-2011, 06:39 AM
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Having had to wear a pair of glasses for practically my whole adult life, I never understood the fascination people have of wanting to put on a pair while watching a movie for a measly effect.


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post #10 of 137 Old 10-06-2011, 06:52 AM
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1) 3D titles that are not day and date released with the 2D --- ESPECIALLY when it's a native 3D shot film.. this is just plain wrong. If someone buys the 2D version, they are less likely to buy the 3D version ... so this slows sales. Avatar, Transformers 3, Alice in Wonderland, Toy Story 3, Megamind, etc

And if somebody wants the 3D version, they are not likely going to settle for a 2D....Why is Alice in Wonderland on this list? If they didn't release on exactly the same day, it was pretty close.
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post #11 of 137 Old 10-06-2011, 06:57 AM
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Originally Posted by stumlad View Post

I almost wrote a post on this when I saw Transformers 3 wasn't getting a 3D release day and date with the 2D. I decided to hold off on watch/purchasing because of this too...

So do studios really want to push 3D?

1) 3D titles that are not day and date released with the 2D --- ESPECIALLY when it's a native 3D shot film.. this is just plain wrong. If someone buys the 2D version, they are less likely to buy the 3D version ... so this slows sales. Avatar, Transformers 3, Alice in Wonderland, Toy Story 3, Megamind, etc
2) High prices - how often do you see sales on 3D titles from major studios? Even new releases are typically $28-30.
3) Exclusives --While the studios can get a guaranteed paycheck for a 3D title by Samsung and Panasonic, it doesn't help someone who pays 2-3K for a TV and then has nothing to watch.
4) Exclusives pt 2 - So after being exclusive to Samsung/Panasonic/Sony, titles then become store exclusive which keeps prices above $30... mainly Dreamworks.

With Movie theaters, Sony said they'd stop providing the 2D polarized glasses -- movie theaters have to purchase their own... this means the price of 3D movies will go up. In return, people will less likely choose the 3D option... end result... 3D may disappear again...

With TVs, there's the whole active shutter vs passive glasses... incompatible active shutter glasses (though they are working on this i think).

The other thing is that the 2D conversions are probably killing 3D as well.. Who wants to pay an extra 3-5 bucks for 3D when a good amount of them aren't even true 3D? The Lion King was well done, but even as much money as was put into this, it still looked 2.5D to me. And that was one of the better ones... Thor, Green Lantern, Captain America, etc all had conversions which weren't done very well... Even a good chunk of Transformers 3 isn't true 3D.

What will probably happen is 3D will stick around but be limited to major movies.. this may be a good thing though assuming they actually release the 3D version on blu-ray!!

1) Maybe, maybe not. People do double dip and not everyone buys movies on release week. Remember we have about three more months of HEAVY shopping in the U.S. Besides most 3D movies have had a day and date release day like Thor, GL, Lion King, Beauty and the Beast, Captain America, etc.

2) High prices was a complaint for DVDs, Blu rays and now 3D Blu rays. Can you guess the trend. They will go down in price and currently I have bought my 3D blu rays for only like 3 to four dollars more then the 2D counterpart. And places like Disney with Best Buy made it possible to buy Lion King and BatB for 42 dollars for both with coupons and bundle buys.

3 and 4) Yes exclusives suck but this is not 2008. In 2011 we have a much larger selection of 3D summer blockbusters that are not exclusive. With only movies like Avatar, Kung Fu Panda 2 and the Shrek collection exclusive I would not make it a huge deal. Those movies are great but they will come eventually and we have seen them freed like HTTYD, MvA, Narnia, Megamind, etc.

And no, them being exclusive at BB is not keeping them above 30 dollars. For one they release for 29.99 initially which is actually great for a 3D Blu ray and for two other companies aren't and haven't been releasing recent 3D movies for 16 dollars or anything like that. The price is usually 26-29 dollars upon release week or so and then after that they shoot up to 34 or so everywhere.

Yes it sucks that Sony isn't paying for the glasses anymore but prices in the theaters have always gone up and have only been getting more expensive so I am pretty sure they can bite the bullet on that one, especially when even going to see a 2D movie with a date can be close to 40 dollars with popcorn, drinks and snacks.

Conversions will not be the death but actually the life support for 3D. Conversions aren't bad, POOR conversions are bad. The same logic goes for High Def, not every conversion is great and how many posts were made about Gladiator or other big movies that were poorly converted to HD.

3D conversions will keep people interested because native 3D shot movies is limited to upcoming movies but with 3D conversions movie studios can cash in on movies with an established fanbase and consumers can enjoy their favorite movie in a whole new way. This is a huge plus for 3D and without conversions the catalog for 3D movies would be even smaller. I am not against 3D conversions just lazy poor quality ones.
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post #12 of 137 Old 10-06-2011, 07:01 AM
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Originally Posted by iamian View Post

Having had to wear a pair of glasses for practically my whole adult life, I never understood the fascination people have of wanting to put on a pair while watching a movie for a measly effect.

If you are truly into movies why wouldn't you want to be even more immersed in it. That's why we want bigger and better TVs, better and better picture quality and now an extra dimension.

I find it funny that people make such a huge deal over the glasses. People where sunglasses all the time and don't complain about it being heavy or goofy and even more people where prescription glasses. I were glasses and contacts and have used both with my 3D glasses and to me it's fine. I am not insecure about how I look with them in my own home and playing video games and watching movies in 3D is a blast.
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post #13 of 137 Old 10-06-2011, 07:23 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Morpheo View Post

Transformers 3 will be released in december, 3 months, not 5. It was released in theaters only 4 months ago btw.

As for Harry Potter...it was converted. If I were equipped with 3D, I wouldn't get anything other than 3d native films, but that's just me.

I'm not going to disagree, since you may have information that I don't.

Instead, could you post a link to that information?

Nowhere I've looked has any date listed for the release of the 3D version, and certainly nothing I've seen on high def digest or bluray.com is showing a confirmed date for the 3D release.

Just sayin'

And the Harry Potter wasn't a bad conversion - I saw it in theaters, and it at least was a lot better than, say, The Last Airbender - which was hilariously bad.


But I think as others here have intimated, the Bluray 3D format was not just launched for theaters - and it is a more expensive option for those who have willingly committed to it.

We didn't commit to it to be getting short shrift and get our version of the movie AFTER everyone else who DIDN'T upgrade their systems.

As an analogy, can you imagine if, back when DVD was starting out, they had chosen to release the DVD version of new movies AFTER the VHS versions?

No, they wouldn't have, because it's idiotic.

Enough is enough - there needs to be a commitment from the studios (AND, for that matter, from the manufacturers, ALSO) to get the 3D versions of these films to market at the same time as the 2D versions.

Otherwise, those watching on the sidelines who HAVEN'T yet converted are going to see an obvious disincentive at play - and the BD 3D format may then end up as another D-VHS.. Which I, for one, do not want to see happen.
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post #14 of 137 Old 10-06-2011, 08:03 AM
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Originally Posted by rdjam View Post

As an analogy, can you imagine if, back when DVD was starting out, they had chosen to release the DVD version of new movies AFTER the VHS versions?


It's funny that you use that analogy because it's actually true. They DID release DVDs after the VHS release and sometimes they weren't even listed on the TV commercial for the movie release. Then over time DVD prices went down and people started buying more DVDs. Then the TV commercials had the VHS in front of the DVD version on the commercials. Then DVD got even more popular and cheaper and then next thing you know the DVD version is the only version advertised on the commercials.

The same exact thing is happening with DVD and Blu ray releases. They didn't always release day and date with each other and the Blu ray version got less media attention, but know that's not the case.

Be patient, it's new tech and your still an early adaptor.
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post #15 of 137 Old 10-06-2011, 08:34 AM
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Originally Posted by iamian View Post

Having had to wear a pair of glasses for practically my whole adult life, I never understood the fascination people have of wanting to put on a pair while watching a movie for a measly effect.

It's fine if you don't like 3d, I appreciate that. Just state it outright. But this argument doesn't hold any water with me.

"I enjoy skiing, but I don't like wearing the goggles."
"I love going to the beach, but I can't stand wearing sunglasses."
"I don't mind filling the chlorine tank for the spa, but those safety glasses really bug me."
"I really enjoy like scuba diving, but I wish they'd invent a with a way to do it without the mask and tank."
"That rollercoaster was a blast, I just wish that darned safety bar wasn't in my way."

There are plenty of recreational/entertainment activities that require equipment to enjoy properly, but 3d seems to be the only one that gets flack for it.
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post #16 of 137 Old 10-06-2011, 08:36 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Javy3 View Post

It's funny that you use that analogy because it's actually true. They DID release DVDs after the VHS release and sometimes they weren't even listed on the TV commercial for the movie release. Then over time DVD prices went down and people started buying more DVDs. Then the TV commercials had the VHS in front of the DVD version on the commercials. Then DVD got even more popular and cheaper and then next thing you know the DVD version is the only version advertised on the commercials.

The same exact thing is happening with DVD and Blu ray releases. They didn't always release day and date with each other and the Blu ray version got less media attention, but know that's not the case.

Be patient, it's new tech and your still an early adaptor.

Re: the DVD vs VHS releases - only on movies that they were playing catchup on. Once they were up to speed on DVD production, the two versions were always released together. There is no production issue at play with this 3D release issue - only "marketing tricks" and "politricks".

And as to the promotion tag, you are right about DVD not getting heavy promotion in the home-release ads until it started to get some users, as VHS was where the money was at - but it didn't mean they held back the DVD release, tho.

And to extend that point a little further, Bluray has enjoyed MUCH greater support in the home release ads, right alongside DVD, from all Bluray Studios, such as Disney and Sony, even from the early launch of the format.

If the studios are to continue to build confidence in Bluray 3D, they need to show they are committed to treating that format with just as much attention as the 2D version of Bluray. Not this, "bah, we'll get to the 3D version later - heck it's only a couple of percent of the market anyway..." nonsense.
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post #17 of 137 Old 10-06-2011, 09:17 AM
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Originally Posted by rdjam View Post

Re: the DVD vs VHS releases - only on movies that they were playing catchup on. Once they were up to speed on DVD production, the two versions were always released together. There is no production issue at play with this 3D release issue - only "marketing tricks" and "politricks".

And as to the promotion tag, you are right about DVD not getting heavy promotion in the home-release ads until it started to get some users, as VHS was where the money was at - but it didn't mean they held back the DVD release, tho.

And to extend that point a little further, Bluray has enjoyed MUCH greater support in the home release ads, right alongside DVD, from all Bluray Studios, such as Disney and Sony, even from the early launch of the format.

If the studios are to continue to build confidence in Bluray 3D, they need to show they are committed to treating that format with just as much attention as the 2D version of Bluray. Not this, "bah, we'll get to the 3D version later - heck it's only a couple of percent of the market anyway..." nonsense.

Once again you are mistaken. Every movie and movie studio is different just like now. Not every DVD was released day and date with a VHS release even when DVD production was high because still studios didn't wanna invest too much into a movie they didn't know would sell well on two formats. There was still many people on the fence when DVD came out and some new releases played it safe and waited on a DVD release.

You are still making a huge deal over nothing. Movies double dip and it's not like Transformers will not be getting a 3D release it's just that movie studios want to get more money. Why do you think they offer a 10 coupon? To give double dippers that extra incentive or even gifters.

As I have said 99% of the 3D movies like Thor, GL, Lion King, Capt. America, etc.. are all being released at the same time as the Blu ray version. Transformers is a rare case and it's a marketing tool like rereleasing an extended version later. The truth is they wanted to give christmas shoppers something to tide them over until they rerelease it with more bonus content. They probably couldn't justify a bare bones 3D release, which is why it is coming out as the same time as the special edition.
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post #18 of 137 Old 10-06-2011, 09:26 AM
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Originally Posted by thebard View Post

It's fine if you don't like 3d, I appreciate that. Just state it outright. But this argument doesn't hold any water with me.

"I enjoy skiing, but I don't like wearing the goggles."
"I love going to the beach, but I can't stand wearing sunglasses."
"I don't mind filling the chlorine tank for the spa, but those safety glasses really bug me."
"I really enjoy like scuba diving, but I wish they'd invent a with a way to do it without the mask and tank."
"That rollercoaster was a blast, I just wish that darned safety bar wasn't in my way."

There are plenty of recreational/entertainment activities that require equipment to enjoy properly, but 3d seems to be the only one that gets flack for it.

+1

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post #19 of 137 Old 10-06-2011, 09:26 AM
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Originally Posted by Javy3 View Post

1) Maybe, maybe not. People do double dip and not everyone buys movies on release week. Remember we have about three more months of HEAVY shopping in the U.S. Besides most 3D movies have had a day and date release day like Thor, GL, Lion King, Beauty and the Beast, Captain America, etc.

2) High prices was a complaint for DVDs, Blu rays and now 3D Blu rays. Can you guess the trend. They will go down in price and currently I have bought my 3D blu rays for only like 3 to four dollars more then the 2D counterpart. And places like Disney with Best Buy made it possible to buy Lion King and BatB for 42 dollars for both with coupons and bundle buys.

3 and 4) Yes exclusives suck but this is not 2008. In 2011 we have a much larger selection of 3D summer blockbusters that are not exclusive. With only movies like Avatar, Kung Fu Panda 2 and the Shrek collection exclusive I would not make it a huge deal. Those movies are great but they will come eventually and we have seen them freed like HTTYD, MvA, Narnia, Megamind, etc.

And no, them being exclusive at BB is not keeping them above 30 dollars. For one they release for 29.99 initially which is actually great for a 3D Blu ray and for two other companies aren't and haven't been releasing recent 3D movies for 16 dollars or anything like that. The price is usually 26-29 dollars upon release week or so and then after that they shoot up to 34 or so everywhere.

Yes it sucks that Sony isn't paying for the glasses anymore but prices in the theaters have always gone up and have only been getting more expensive so I am pretty sure they can bite the bullet on that one, especially when even going to see a 2D movie with a date can be close to 40 dollars with popcorn, drinks and snacks.

Conversions will not be the death but actually the life support for 3D. Conversions aren't bad, POOR conversions are bad. The same logic goes for High Def, not every conversion is great and how many posts were made about Gladiator or other big movies that were poorly converted to HD.

3D conversions will keep people interested because native 3D shot movies is limited to upcoming movies but with 3D conversions movie studios can cash in on movies with an established fanbase and consumers can enjoy their favorite movie in a whole new way. This is a huge plus for 3D and without conversions the catalog for 3D movies would be even smaller. I am not against 3D conversions just lazy poor quality ones.

Yeah, I agree that it's better now than last year... but it's ridiculous when Transformers 3 which is probably the 2nd biggest 3D title aside from Avatar, is not day and date. I am glad that it's coming out in December, and not next year. Just don't understand why they are doing this. With Avatar, they at least had somewhat of a valid reason --- had to create the extended version... (edit: i guess transformers will as well!?)

Beauty and the Beast is not day and date. It was released last year in 2D). So was Toy Story 1, 2 and 3 as well as Alice in Wonderland... Alice in Wonderland was probably the fastest to go from exclusive to general availability. Bolt is just now going to be released after being an exclusive. Then there's obviously all the recent Dreamworks... but look how long they have been exclusive! Some were exclusive for over a year!

The studios could have sold barebones 3D copies of these movies to Panasonic/Samsung/Sony to give away with their tvs. At the same time, they could have sold non-bare-bones copies to the general public. I don't think someone chose a TV because of a free movie.

I'll agree that the floodgates seem to be opening, but it still seems we're far away from making 3D mainstream.

As for 3D conversions, I just worry that the bad ones will turn people off to 3D. Even though I said Lion King wasn't great, it was definitely good enough IMO...Hopefully Titanic is done well...

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post #20 of 137 Old 10-06-2011, 09:33 AM
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Originally Posted by ThePrisoner View Post

I'm starting to go this route also, although The Lion King is an impressive convert.

These hand-drawn film-cell 3d jobs will always fall into a different category than normal 2d-3d live-action film conversions. Afterall, they can't be "filmed" in 3d--the process they're doing now is pretty much what they'd do if it was going to be in 3d to be begin with.
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post #21 of 137 Old 10-06-2011, 09:37 AM
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Just don't understand why they are doing this. With Avatar, they at least had somewhat of a valid reason --- had to create the extended version... (edit: i guess transformers will as well!?)

Not real sure what you're going for here... Avatar 1) isn't yet available for general release (though it's easy to get one) 2) the extended cut doesn't have a 3d version yet, exclusive deal or not.
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post #22 of 137 Old 10-06-2011, 09:41 AM
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People just do not care about 3D that much. The numbers at the movies tell us so (outside of Avatar). I am not a 3D hater, but it is a compromise technology in its current state. The manufacturers are trying to push it as the next advancement ie: black&white---color----HD----3D, but its not. Outside of the generally annoying glasses (honestly, who would prefer them over not needing them) the picture is generally compromised compared to a quality 2D picture. Besides the darker and generally less sharp look, not having believable "mass" in the 3d objects on screen is noticable; it reminds me of a children's pop-up book most of the time. I am all for 3D when it is actually not a compromise, until then I will not invest in it.

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post #23 of 137 Old 10-06-2011, 09:50 AM
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Yeah, I agree that it's better now than last year... but it's ridiculous when Transformers 3 which is probably the 2nd biggest 3D title aside from Avatar, is not day and date. I am glad that it's coming out in December, and not next year. Just don't understand why they are doing this. With Avatar, they at least had somewhat of a valid reason --- had to create the extended version... (edit: i guess transformers will as well!?)

Beauty and the Beast is not day and date. It was released last year in 2D). So was Toy Story 1, 2 and 3 as well as Alice in Wonderland... Alice in Wonderland was probably the fastest to go from exclusive to general availability. Bolt is just now going to be released after being an exclusive. Then there's obviously all the recent Dreamworks... but look how long they have been exclusive! Some were exclusive for over a year!

The studios could have sold barebones 3D copies of these movies to Panasonic/Samsung/Sony to give away with their tvs. At the same time, they could have sold non-bare-bones copies to the general public. I don't think someone chose a TV because of a free movie.

I'll agree that the floodgates seem to be opening, but it still seems we're far away from making 3D mainstream.

As for 3D conversions, I just worry that the bad ones will turn people off to 3D. Even though I said Lion King wasn't great, it was definitely good enough IMO...Hopefully Titanic is done well...

People are taking the Transformers move so hard. It's simple marketing. They are releasing a bare bones to make sure the movie makes it in time for Peak Holiday shopping and with the bare bones copy they are giving you a 10 dollar coupon to buy the 3D version coming later for yourself or a friend closer to or after Christmas. Either way they are both available during huge shopping months.

Transformers claim to fame is special effects and this third one was said to rival Avatar for it's 3D quality. That is a lot of pressure and if they do a poor 3D and 2D transfer in PQ they will be screwed because people don't buy this kind of eye candy movie for it's plot. That's probably why they are taking their time.

As for your assesment of exclusives helping manufacterers, of course they do. I have seen people posting who are in the market for a new Blu ray player choose a Panasonic not because they compared quality but because the possibility of being one of the few with a copy of Avatar 3D is too enticing.

The same goes for Samsung and their bundles where you got the Shrek collection and Megamind with two pairs of glasses. Every company is trying to offer an exclusive, otherwise what seperates them from their competition. Walmart had the EXCLUSIVE IMAX edition of Transformers 2, Target has special slips or custom cases for movies like Batman Begins, Ironman, etc. and Best Buy has been snagging up Exclusive ability to sell certain 3D Blu ray titles like it's going out of style. Do you think all these companies would invest money on exclusives if they don't work, it works, for them, but for some consumers it becomes a pain in the butt.
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post #24 of 137 Old 10-06-2011, 10:00 AM - Thread Starter
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As I have said 99% of the 3D movies like Thor, GL, Lion King, Capt. America, etc.. are all being released at the same time as the Blu ray version. Transformers is a rare case and it's a marketing tool like rereleasing an extended version later. The truth is they wanted to give christmas shoppers something to tide them over until they rerelease it with more bonus content. They probably couldn't justify a bare bones 3D release, which is why it is coming out as the same time as the special edition.

I won't go into the rest, but suffice to say I don't agree that I'm making a big deal out of nothing.

However, I will state again that this is not the same as double-dipping.

"They probably couldn't justify a bare bones 3D release"...? Justify to WHO, exactly. I would have bought a bare-bones 3D release, just as I have bought a bare-bones 3D release of various other 3D titles out this year.

Again, if they want a fancied up director's edition later on, then tuck another 3D version in a 3 disk all-in-one director's re-release later on - instead of holding back on the regular 3D version now and disenfranchising the current supporters of the format.

It's pissing off Bluray 3D owners and supporters... and that's the point being made here.
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post #25 of 137 Old 10-06-2011, 10:02 AM
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Originally Posted by Matman1970 View Post

People just do not care about 3D that much. The numbers at the movies tell us so (outside of Avatar). I am not a 3D hater, but it is a compromise technology in its current state. The manufacturers are trying to push it as the next advancement ie: black&white---color----HD----3D, but its not. Outside of the generally annoying glasses (honestly, who would prefer them over not needing them) the picture is generally compromised compared to a quality 2D picture. Besides the darker and generally less sharp look, not having believable "mass" in the 3d objects on screen is noticable; it reminds me of a children's pop-up book most of the time. I am all for 3D when it is actually not a compromise, until then I will not invest in it.

That's not true. 3D movie sales vary from movie to movie and crappy movies sell crappy on 3D as well while good movies with good 3D sell better.

I don't think 3D is a compromise and I think it's silly for people to wait for technology that is many many years and breakthroughs away like glasses less 3D TVs.

Everyone always complains that 3D PQ is not as sharp or as bright or as nice as 2D. Well that's not 100% true. At home you can make it as sharp or as bright as you need it.

Let's also be frank about what kind of set ups people have. I know all these people that rag on 3D PQ don't have the top of the line HDTV with the best PQ, calibrated perfectly in the perfect room with the perfect lightening. Most are using an HDTV they got on sale with factory settings or settings they eyeballed. Pretty much a situation where they are already not taking full advantage of HD.
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post #26 of 137 Old 10-06-2011, 10:10 AM
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+1

"I enjoy sky-diving, but it'd be so much more fun without having to wear a damned parachute."

Well, you can do it that way once...



Back on the subject of glasses: doesn't bother me to wear them. I wear sunglasses 90% of the time I'm outside during the day, and I wear reading glasses when the squiggly black lines don't quite focus.

Yeah, it would be better to not need 3D glasses, but only if the quality of the 3D image wasn't compromised. Since I don't see a way for that to happen anytime soon (autostereoscopic displays are not all that impressive to me, and have a huge number of compromises), I will wear glasses and enjoy the 3D experience.

IMHO, YMMV,

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post #27 of 137 Old 10-06-2011, 10:22 AM
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I won't go into the rest, but suffice to say I don't agree that I'm making a big deal out of nothing.

However, I will state again that this is not the same as double-dipping.

"They probably couldn't justify a bare bones 3D release"...? Justify to WHO, exactly. I would have bought a bare-bones 3D release, just as I have bought a bare-bones 3D release of various other 3D titles out this year.

Again, if they want a fancied up director's edition later on, then tuck another 3D version in a 3 disk all-in-one director's re-release later on - instead of holding back on the regular 3D version now and disenfranchising the current supporters of the format.

It's pissing off Bluray 3D owners and supporters... and that's the point being made here.

How is it not the same as double dipping? They give you a coupon in the 2D bare bones version to buy it again in 3D for 10 dollars cheaper. If that's not encouraging double dipping I don't know what is.

3D is just the incentive to rebuy the movie, most won't double dip for another release with boring bonus features but a rerelease in 3D or with more footage usually gets people to double dip. If they released a bare bones 3D and a bare bones 2D version this month the sales for the rerelease in Decemeber would be next to nothing unless they just discontinue the bare bones releases. That's what I mean by justify a bare bones release, justify it financially.

With this marketing strategy they sell the bare bones release to many unsuspecting consumers who open it up to find a discount for a 3D release for a movie they probably watched and enjoyed in 3D. Then after Christmas with possibly a newly bought 3D HDTV thanks to the holiday sales they will rebuy Transformers in 3D to enjoy it the way they did in the theater, especially with all the hype of it rivaling Avatar in 3D.

As for the rest of us 3D owners who know about the rerelease, some will still KNOWINGLY double dip because they "can't wait" (go to the Transformers thread for proof) and others like me will sit on top of my big pile of 3D movies this year and enjoy them until December. So this strategy has sold these movies twice to many consumers. If they released both versions as a bare bones version this month I can guarantee the double dipping would be significantly lower which means less money overall which is the whole point.
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post #28 of 137 Old 10-06-2011, 10:22 AM
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My optometrist said that at least 10% of the population has poor or no depth perception. I am one of them. Sadly, 3D is useless to me, glasses or no glasses.

I do feel that a parachute would be useful to 100% of the population.

I blame it all on Famous Monsters of Filmland!
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post #29 of 137 Old 10-06-2011, 10:31 AM - Thread Starter
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People are taking the Transformers move so hard. It's simple marketing.

The point is it's BAD marketing, and it's "bass-ackwards".

Look, you and I both want Bluray 3D to succeed, so we're not enemies here, we just have a different viewpoint at the moment about whether this tactic is creating ill-will in their target market.

You clearly don't seem to be very fussed about the really good titles being with-held for a "new customers only" kind of approach - others have a very different tolerance level for that tactic which is not the same as yours. C'est la vie - but it is causing ill-will, that is for sure.

Now - what's a good approach to manufacturers still having a carrot to sell new players and TV's?

The answer is blindingly obvious: Package a few 3D releases on a non-exclusive basis, that give a new buyer a starter library. It is up to the manufacturer whether they want those to be blockbusters, or just good examples of 3D, depending on how much money the studio wants for that.

After all, during the format war, Toshiba made a LOT of headway, but giving away free HD DVDs with the players.

But did they with-hold those titles from all other HD DVD owners and PREVENT them from being able to enjoy them?? HELL NO - because that would have been stupid, and would have hurt the format in the bigger picture.

Yet that is exactly what these manufacturers are doing now. It has GOT to stop! Let them make some deals on including a starter library for new buyers - it'll probably cost them less than these STUPID exclusive deals, anyway, and EVERYONE will be happy, including both new buyers and current owners.

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Do you think all these companies would invest money on exclusives if they don't work, it works, for them, but for some consumers it becomes a pain in the butt.

Ahhh, but the point is just because they get a few extra sales DOESN'T make it right.

I contend that they will still get extra sales by including some starter titles, and avoid pissing off current owners by p'eeing all over them.

And if they want to play the exclusivity game, they can make deals with the studios that no other manufacturer can package the same films - but the existing owners are not barred from buying the titles themselves whenever they choose.

So Samsung would still benefit from their arrangement with Dreamworks - without disenfranchising other owners (including Samsung owners who bought earlier, I might add).
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post #30 of 137 Old 10-06-2011, 10:35 AM
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To the OP - good post.

To everyone else who felt the need to comment on "not being interested in 3D" or "being annoyed at having to wear glasses" - what are you doing in this thread?
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