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post #91 of 123 Old 11-16-2011, 02:15 PM
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Originally Posted by dojoman View Post

Does changing the TV size improve crosstalk?

I would probably increase it unfortunately.


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post #92 of 123 Old 11-16-2011, 02:26 PM
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Originally Posted by chaosemerald View Post

Well from what I'm reading setting it larger will minimize the 3d effect, and should likely minimize crosstalk, while setting it smaller seems to increase the 3d effect and should increase crosstalk in vulnerable sets.

BTW, has anyone tried this on sharp's quattron 3d sets? I'm wondering if there are any issues with crosstalk in this set.

I've fully testing the Sharp LE835U and the amount of crosstalk was so low compared to my 2010 Sony NX711, that I took the opportunity to play Mirrors Edge, which is full of high contrast scenery and was just too much on the Sony. Not only that, but the brightness was much, much higher than the Sony. I had to return the Sharp though since there was a weird image processing problem which ruined detail when in 2D mode. I use a 46" 3DTV as a desktop, so i have unusual requirements. I have done a lot of research though and based on it, the Sharp, Toshiba wx800u and the Phillips 9000 series have the least crosstalk, which the Phillips having amounts approaching plasma, with a very nice 500 cd/m2 brightness level.

Edit: just remembered i already pretty much said this in this thread...


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post #93 of 123 Old 11-16-2011, 05:28 PM
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Originally Posted by tory40 View Post

I've fully testing the Sharp LE835U and the amount of crosstalk was so low compared to my 2010 Sony NX711, that I took the opportunity to play Mirrors Edge, which is full of high contrast scenery and was just too much on the Sony. Not only that, but the brightness was much, much higher than the Sony. I had to return the Sharp though since there was a weird image processing problem which ruined detail when in 2D mode. I use a 46" 3DTV as a desktop, so i have unusual requirements. I have done a lot of research though and based on it, the Sharp, Toshiba wx800u and the Phillips 9000 series have the least crosstalk, which the Phillips having amounts approaching plasma, with a very nice 500 cd/m2 brightness level.

Edit: just remembered i already pretty much said this in this thread...

Didn't notice the sharp set was also quattron.


Well samsung d8000 led was said to surpass even panasonic plasmas in 3d quality. I know that at least in brightness sharp likely beats plasmas. From that list I can get toshibas and sharps easy, but philips I'd need to order online. Toshiba and Sharp tend to be very low cost, so that's a plus.

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post #94 of 123 Old 11-17-2011, 11:31 AM
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Originally Posted by chaosemerald View Post

Well from what I'm reading setting it larger will minimize the 3d effect, and should likely minimize crosstalk, while setting it smaller seems to increase the 3d effect and should increase crosstalk in vulnerable sets.

BTW, has anyone tried this on sharp's quattron 3d sets? I'm wondering if there are any issues with crosstalk in this set.

I changed my TV screen size to default 65", I have 46" and i noticed less crosstalk. I think I will keep it this way, crosstalk is definitely less annoying than less depth. Does everyone have 65" as default when you first setup display? I was thinking maybe PS3 was smart enough to give the right TV size to use to minimized crosstalk?
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post #95 of 123 Old 11-17-2011, 01:31 PM
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Originally Posted by chaosemerald View Post

Didn't notice the sharp set was also quattron.


Well samsung d8000 led was said to surpass even panasonic plasmas in 3d quality. I know that at least in brightness sharp likely beats plasmas. From that list I can get toshibas and sharps easy, but philips I'd need to order online. Toshiba and Sharp tend to be very low cost, so that's a plus.

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Do you have a true 3d interface desktop or do you run regular 2d desktop on the 3d hdtv

Yeah, i can't even see where to buy the Phillips unfortunately. The Samsung D8000's crosstalk test photos on Digitalversus don't see too bad, but they do match my 2010 NX711, which i consider to have a ton of crosstalk. But screens can be very different in "crosstalk uniformity", so to say. My NX711 increases crosstalk drastically going the further from the horizontal center you go. The Sharp LE835 seemed to have completely even amounts of crosstalk across the screen, it was great, relatively speaking. The Sharp also had very low input lag in 2D and 720p60 3D, but keep in mind i returned it because it had a weird image processing problem in 2D where it killed all the little details, a 40" and a 60" had the problem too. Before getting the Sharp i recommend taking a usb disk with some photos your very familiar with and look at them on the TV and see what you think. Somehow this problem went away when i enabled 3D in the Nvidia control panel and changed to a 3D compatible rez.....

I use the 46" screen as a 3D gaming monitor to replace my 30" Dell 3007wfp-hc which had a 2560-1600 resolution. I rate this 3D setup higher and more immersive than the Dell, even despite playing at 720p60, which i have to, since HDMI can't handle 1080p60 yet. I can barely see the pixel structure, which is surprising to me.


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post #96 of 123 Old 12-03-2011, 01:00 AM
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Just set up my PS3 to my DLP projector and threw in Uncharted 3. Holy crap, this is really, really good 3D! There's not a snowball's chance in hell 2D could compare to this. As far as crosstalk is concerned, I haven't seen it, even in the cutscenes. Seriously, if this is a sign of things to come, I am sooo glad I'm a gamer.

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post #97 of 123 Old 12-04-2011, 03:15 AM
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Just set up my PS3 to my DLP projector and threw in Uncharted 3. Holy crap, this is really, really good 3D! There's not a snowball's chance in hell 2D could compare to this. As far as crosstalk is concerned, I haven't seen it, even in the cutscenes. Seriously, if this is a sign of things to come, I am sooo glad I'm a gamer.

It's a really good game in 3D
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post #98 of 123 Old 12-04-2011, 05:35 AM
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Originally Posted by blastermaster View Post

Just set up my PS3 to my DLP projector and threw in Uncharted 3. Holy crap, this is really, really good 3D! There's not a snowball's chance in hell 2D could compare to this. As far as crosstalk is concerned, I haven't seen it, even in the cutscenes. Seriously, if this is a sign of things to come, I am sooo glad I'm a gamer.

Your post made me throw Uncharted 3 in last night after my wife nodded off. I'm only to Chapter 6 or so - the jungle level. There's no going back to 2D when it is done so amazingly well like in this game. WOWOWOWOWOWOW!!!
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post #99 of 123 Old 12-04-2011, 06:55 AM
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Now THESE comments are starting to sound like the feeling i had when i loaded up a 3D game on my 46" 3DTV from a meter away for the first time.


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post #100 of 123 Old 12-06-2011, 07:04 AM
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I stopped playing Uncharted 3 in 3D. It had the exact same problem that Killzone 3 did -- monstrous crosstalk during cutscenes. In the game it's fine, but there is a ton of cutscenes in this particular game and the crosstalk is too much. I have the 3D slider at about 70% and there's rarely crosstalk. Does the slider not adjust the cut scenes? For me, it was really unbearable. The game itself was also a huge disappointment compared to the excellent Uncharted 2, which remains my favorite game this generation.

I'm using a 50" Panasonic plasma. I forgot the model number. It was the most expensive 2010 model in that size and received CNET's TV of the year, or something like that.
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post #101 of 123 Old 12-06-2011, 09:23 AM
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Originally Posted by barb1978 View Post

I stopped playing Uncharted 3 in 3D. It had the exact same problem that Killzone 3 did -- monstrous crosstalk during cutscenes. In the game it's fine, but there is a ton of cutscenes in this particular game and the crosstalk is too much. I have the 3D slider at about 70% and there's rarely crosstalk. Does the slider not adjust the cut scenes? For me, it was really unbearable. The game itself was also a huge disappointment compared to the excellent Uncharted 2, which remains my favorite game this generation.

I'm using a 50" Panasonic plasma. I forgot the model number. It was the most expensive 2010 model in that size and received CNET's TV of the year, or something like that.

we have the game and the cut scenes are excellent in 3d.the game is also amazing in 3d with a bit of resolution downgrade.i would think it must be something with your setup.we have samsung dlp with mits converter.
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post #102 of 123 Old 12-06-2011, 01:51 PM
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we have the game and the cut scenes are excellent in 3d.the game is also amazing in 3d with a bit of resolution downgrade.i would think it must be something with your setup.we have samsung dlp with mits converter.

I have seen no crosstalk at all on any PS3 games. I was initially skeptical about even getting 3D with all the "crosstalk" talk. Maybe I am just missing something, but the only place where 3D looks odd was on deBlob 2 when set at maximum 3D, there is just too much 3D. Take that down to 6 and it's perfect.

As for Uncharted 3 and Killzone 3, I find both to be exceptional 3D.

I tried the Resistance 3 demo and while there was no crosstalk or ghosting, the game just looked like pure ass, so I didn't even bother. That's really the one game where I noticed a resolution drop where it really hurt the experience.

Edit: forgot to mention - I am running a 3D DLP projector through the Viewsonic converter.
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post #103 of 123 Old 12-06-2011, 01:53 PM
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I am running a 3D DLP projector

...and THIS is why you have no crosstalk.

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post #104 of 123 Old 12-06-2011, 04:15 PM
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Too often games get evaluated for how much crosstalk they "have." However, what's really being evaluated is the TV. For example, it's not that the game shows crosstalk in cutscenes, it's that the TV can't handle the game's cutscenes. The game deserves exactly 0% of the blame. That said, if you're stuck with a lousy 3D display, the fact is there will be more or less crosstalk on different kind of games and scenes. It legitimately impacts your experience, and by all means discuss which games your TV can and cannot handle. Just please be careful not to blame the game. It's misleading otherwise (see Billbofet's initial skepticism), will make people wary of jumping into 3D games, and will ultimately hurt 3D gaming.
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post #105 of 123 Old 12-06-2011, 04:28 PM
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Originally Posted by Airion View Post

Too often games get evaluated for how much crosstalk they "have." However, what's really being evaluated is the TV. For example, it's not that the game shows crosstalk in cutscenes, it's that the TV can't handle the game's cutscenes. The game deserves exactly 0% of the blame. That said, if you're stuck with a lousy 3D display, the fact is there will be more or less crosstalk on different kind of games and scenes. It legitimately impacts your experience, and by all means discuss which games your TV can and cannot handle. Just please be careful not to blame the game. It's misleading otherwise (see Billbofet's initial skepticism), will make people wary of jumping into 3D games, and will ultimately hurt 3D gaming.

Exactly. For anyone unconvinced take any of your ghost heavy discs and try them on a DLP

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post #106 of 123 Old 12-06-2011, 04:40 PM
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Anyone play this on a passive set and still get "crosstalk"?
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post #107 of 123 Old 12-06-2011, 08:18 PM
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Originally Posted by Airion View Post

Too often games get evaluated for how much crosstalk they "have." However, what's really being evaluated is the TV. For example, it's not that the game shows crosstalk in cutscenes, it's that the TV can't handle the game's cutscenes. The game deserves exactly 0% of the blame.

What a bunch of garbage. Uncharted 3, from what I've read, has terrible crosstalk in the cutscenes on all but DLP. At the same time, there is ZERO crosstalk on movies on my television. None. Not to mention, the cutscenes featured in the ADS for Uncharted 3 have NO crosstalk - even the same scenes that have crosstalk in the actual game - on the SAME TV and SAME PS3. So it is something they do (or don't do) with the settings in the actual game. Maybe they should just put, "3D for DLP owners, only." Some games do 3D perfectly with no crosstalk (Arkham City, Super Stardust HD, most of Motorstorm), so it is very possible. And if it doesn't work with Uncharted 3 or Killzone 3 -- especially when the PS3 3D trailers for the same games show NO crosstalk, I would say at least some fault falls on the game (I would actually say 100%, but that's me).

I'm getting a little tired of DLP owners saying, "We have a DLP -- we are smart. You mere mortals made a huge mistake with your purchase." We get it. There's no crosstalk on your DLP. For my purposes plasma was better and the 3D works great for anything but lazy games with poor cutscenes. For other people, LED works best for their purposes. For you DLP worked. But I feel like DLP owners are almost rubbing it in with their constant, "We have NO crosstalk" comments in every single one of these threads.
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post #108 of 123 Old 12-06-2011, 08:49 PM
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I dont own a DLP.......I own an RS45 and it is far from ghost free. A good friend of mine owns a Acer DLP projector that I have seen numerous times now and there is simply no ghosting. If you are getting any ghosting it is the fault of your display, period. DLP is the only tech with fast enough refresh to give ghost free 3d right now.

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post #109 of 123 Old 12-06-2011, 08:51 PM
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What a bunch of garbage. Uncharted 3, from what I've read, has terrible crosstalk in the cutscenes on all but DLP. At the same time, there is ZERO crosstalk on movies on my television. None. Not to mention, the cutscenes featured in the ADS for Uncharted 3 have NO crosstalk - even the same scenes that have crosstalk in the actual game - on the SAME TV and SAME PS3. So it is something they do (or don't do) with the settings in the actual game. Maybe they should just put, "3D for DLP owners, only." Some games do 3D perfectly with no crosstalk (Arkham City, Super Stardust HD, most of Motorstorm), so it is very possible. And if it doesn't work with Uncharted 3 or Killzone 3 -- especially when the PS3 3D trailers for the same games show NO crosstalk, I would say at least some fault falls on the game (I would actually say 100%, but that's me).

I'm getting a little tired of DLP owners saying, "We have a DLP -- we are smart. You mere mortals made a huge mistake with your purchase." We get it. There's no crosstalk on your DLP. For my purposes plasma was better and the 3D works great for anything but lazy games with poor cutscenes. For other people, LED works best for their purposes. For you DLP worked. But I feel like DLP owners are almost rubbing it in with their constant, "We have NO crosstalk" comments in every single one of these threads.

Haha my sentiment exactly. Who wants to hang those fridge size DLP TV on the wall anyway. Even with good 3d experience I still prefer 2d with better frame rate over 3d.
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post #110 of 123 Old 12-06-2011, 09:11 PM
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Originally Posted by barb1978 View Post

What a bunch of garbage.

I was afraid this would happen.

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Uncharted 3, from what I've read, has terrible crosstalk in the cutscenes on all but DLP. At the same time, there is ZERO crosstalk on movies on my television. None. Not to mention, the cutscenes featured in the ADS for Uncharted 3 have NO crosstalk - even the same scenes that have crosstalk in the actual game - on the SAME TV and SAME PS3. So it is something they do (or don't do) with the settings in the actual game.

Maybe you can clarify what you're talking about here. You say Uncharted 3 has crosstalk in cutscenes from what you've read. This suggests you haven't played the game, but you also point out that your TV has zero crosstalk on movies. I think it's important to ask here, what causes crosstalk? My understanding is that on a set which is prone to crosstalk, there are two main factors. One is bright objects on a dark background. Perhaps this is part of the problem in Uncharted, where you often have brightly lit faces against a dark background. The other factor is how much separation there is between the left and right images. In other words, how much depth there is. Movies generally have much less depth than games, so you're less likely to see crosstalk there in the first place. Uncharted 3's cutscenes have quite a bit of left/right separation if you crank up the depth. A 3D ad for the game however would likely be set to a much lower depth, less left/right separation, and therefore less crosstalk.

There's really not much a game can do to reduce crosstalk other than have less depth or be less contrasty. The PS3 provides a left and right image in frame packed 720p60hz as per HDMI specifications, and the TV does the rest. There's no magical settings game makers can fiddle with.

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Some games do 3D perfectly with no crosstalk (Arkham City, Super Stardust HD, most of Motorstorm), so it is very possible. And if it doesn't work with Uncharted 3 or Killzone 3 -- especially when the PS3 3D trailers for the same games show NO crosstalk, I would say at least some fault falls on the game (I would actually say 100%, but that's me).

I think the reasons I stated above accounts for all of this. Different amounts of depth (especially Arkham City, which has far less depth than you can get out of Uncharted 3) and contrast. And again, 3D trailers would be set to a lower depth than you might set the game to once you actually play it.

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I'm getting a little tired of DLP owners saying, "We have a DLP -- we are smart.

I might be guilty of this. I researched a ton and now I've got a crosstalk free 3D image at a low price. Nothing for me to be ashamed about. My hope is TV makers get their act together and eliminate crosstalk in all displays, because no one should ever have to struggle with it. People associate 3D with things like crosstalk and dimness, and it's a shame, because it doesn't have to be.

It's not just DLP by the way, there are plenty of displays out there that have no or very minor crosstalk. TVs are getting better and better in this regard. The future is one of zero crosstalk, DLP just happened to get there first. Let's at least future-proof our criticisms of 3D content.
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post #111 of 123 Old 12-06-2011, 10:13 PM
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I'm getting a little tired of DLP owners saying, "We have a DLP -- we are smart. You mere mortals made a huge mistake with your purchase." We get it. There's no crosstalk on your DLP. For my purposes plasma was better and the 3D works great for anything but lazy games with poor cutscenes. For other people, LED works best for their purposes. For you DLP worked. But I feel like DLP owners are almost rubbing it in with their constant, "We have NO crosstalk" comments in every single one of these threads.

I think there just trying to let people know just to inform. I been scouring forums on 3dtvs and gaming for almost a year and i've never come across anything even remotely like your saying. BTw, i run LCD and i just get used to ignoring it, i've got 500 hours of 3d gaming on a crosstalk prone LCD and i still rate it better than a 2560x1600 30" in 2D.


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post #112 of 123 Old 12-07-2011, 08:31 AM
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I don't think anyone is stating they are superior for having DLP, but if the game shows no crosstalk on some displays, how is that lazy game design?

Not claiming to be an expert on 3D at all, but there are so many components in the chain for it to work, it's no shock that there are issues here and there between glasses, transmitters, displays, etc. I just don't think it's the content 90% of the time.

Plus, it's irritating to read reviews on 3D content where "crosstalk" is a major component of the review. Makes it seem more subjective than objective.
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post #113 of 123 Old 12-07-2011, 08:45 AM
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This game on 3D looks great on my Sony XBR55 HX929!

Sony XBR-55HX929 review

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post #114 of 123 Old 12-07-2011, 08:52 AM
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It also looks amazing on my Sony HMZ-T1. But that couldn't have crosstalk/ghosting even if it tried
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post #115 of 123 Old 12-07-2011, 02:36 PM
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It's not just DLP by the way, there are plenty of displays out there that have no or very minor crosstalk. TVs are getting better and better in this regard. The future is one of zero crosstalk, DLP just happened to get there first. Let's at least future-proof our criticisms of 3D content.

^That. I sometimes read Blu-Ray reviews talking about minor crosstalk in scene x in a certain 3D movie and it makes me want to pull my hair out. Reviewers should, by default, be expected to do their testing on a DLP setup with the disclaimer that other technologies may exhibit some crosstalk.

At any rate, many setups are getting better. The new LCD projectors are running at 480hz and have very minimal crosstalk, if any in certain games/movies. Unfortunately, they are playing catch up with DLP.

Really, though, to the OP, if you hate the crosstalk so much, just don't play it. But blame the technology, not the game.

When people cry foul on crosstalk on various movies and games, I'm concerned that it will shy potential newcomers away from 3D. That's the last thing I want, as I want it to thrive and get better.

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post #116 of 123 Old 12-07-2011, 09:02 PM
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I think the frustrating thing for many people is the unpredictibility when it comes to crosstalk. I have a Sony LCD 3DTV that is prone to crosstalk. Killzone was pretty bad, yet I found very little crosstalk at all in Uncharted 3. I have no idea what people are talking about when they're complaining about crosstalk in the cutscenes. I didn't notice any. Go figure...
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post #117 of 123 Old 12-07-2011, 09:45 PM
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Originally Posted by amoney805 View Post

Anyone play this on a passive set and still get "crosstalk"?

I have a Vizio E3d420vx and have only played the MP beta so far (plan on getting the retail game for Christmas).

I only got noticeable crosstalk when I lowered the screen-size setting in the PS3 XMB to increase the depth. At regular 42" and maximum in-game depth, I was never distracted by ghosting. I'm sure you could find some minor instance if you were constantly looking for it and trying to place your character in blue-on-white or black-on-white backgrounds.

There was never enough to catch my eye though. Even when I examined treasures, which pop completely out of the screen, from the main menu, there was still no crosstalk. It was one of the best 3D gaming experiences I've had.
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post #118 of 123 Old 12-08-2011, 02:53 PM
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I really don't understand all the crosstalk rumblings with this game. I played it all the way thru in 3D on my 2010 Samsung 3D plasma (model PN63C8000) and once I adjusted the 3D viewpoint it (and just about all my other PS3 games) had negligible crosstalk in both the gameplay and cutscenes.

I think people need to realize that what works for one title or even type of media (ie: BluRay movie vs. PS3 game) will not necessarily work for another. On my TV setting the 3D viewpoint to 0 works great for movies but leads to significant crosstalk in games; tweaking the setting to -3 has all but eliminated crosstalk in nearly all my games. I even went back to play some older ones like Tron: Evolution and was amazed at the difference, even with the depth cranked all the way to max via the in-game settings.
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post #119 of 123 Old 01-11-2012, 05:50 PM
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I game with depth and stereo at max(nvidia settings) on the 3d sony playstation display. Crosstalk is virtually zero, except in high contrast scenarios.

I was watching the Under the Sea Blu ray which has very strong stereo, depth, and pop out. The fish comes out of the screen about a foot in one portion, again no crosstalk with my settings.

That said, the contrast on Uncharted 3 is too high in some areas(vast difference in brightness, the high brightness is what's particularly problematic as it seems likely to be what's causing it by passing through the glasses in the dark shutter block state.).

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post #120 of 123 Old 01-11-2012, 06:02 PM
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^That. I sometimes read Blu-Ray reviews talking about minor crosstalk in scene x in a certain 3D movie and it makes me want to pull my hair out. Reviewers should, by default, be expected to do their testing on a DLP setup with the disclaimer that other technologies may exhibit some crosstalk.

At any rate, many setups are getting better. The new LCD projectors are running at 480hz and have very minimal crosstalk, if any in certain games/movies. Unfortunately, they are playing catch up with DLP.

Really, though, to the OP, if you hate the crosstalk so much, just don't play it. But blame the technology, not the game.

When people cry foul on crosstalk on various movies and games, I'm concerned that it will shy potential newcomers away from 3D. That's the last thing I want, as I want it to thrive and get better.

I played uncharted on dlp projector and see cross talk during some cut scenes with background images. Example is light bulbs in the background exhibit cross talk very minor but it's there and this is on a dlp setup
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