Assassin's Creed: Revelations in 3D - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 46 Old 11-18-2011, 10:57 PM - Thread Starter
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What could be better than climbing up a tall building in 16th century Constantinople and looking down with a true sense of depth? The Assassin's Creed series is a perfect candidate to get the 3D treatment. I was very excited to pop this in my PS3, set the 3D to framepacked, and get to it.

AC:Revelations does not render two camera views for true stereoscopic 3D. Instead, it renders one 2D image and in post processing produces the second view using that one image and the depth data contained in the game. This method is light on processing, so you're able to play the game at full 720p (to my eye) and no noticeable drop in frame rate.

On the other hand, there are artifacts. Most noticeable to me is a sort of halo around Ezio, where some of the background is in the same plane as him. This in fact happens on all edges. Looking over a cliff to see the ocean below, a sliver of the water is actually attached to the cliff. Another issue is enemies' health bars which are given no depth at all, so they appear in the same plane as your screen. While an enemy may be off in the distance, his health bar is far detached from him, much closer to you.

I found these artifacts to be very distracting. I really want to play this game in 3D, and it's certainly nice where it works, but I'm afraid I'll have to settle for 2D. What do others think?
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post #2 of 46 Old 11-19-2011, 05:04 AM
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I played a few missions in 3D last night.

I agree with what you said.

There are some times (the beginning snow level) where the effect is amazing.
But most of the time it just adds some depth.

It really isn't worth the loss of sharpness.

Also, on my Sammy plasma D8000, when it turns to night, its almost unplayable in some areas.

Still, I'll turn it on for goofing around and harassing guards but leave it off for the serious parts.
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post #3 of 46 Old 11-19-2011, 06:05 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Doug Schiller View Post

There are some times (the beginning snow level) where the effect is amazing.

Actually, it was right from the beginning snow level that I was bothered by the artifacts. As far as loss of sharpness, I was actually impressed with how sharp it was despite 3D (in other words, I didn't notice any resolution drop). Interesting how differently people perceive these things, isn't it?

Anyway, I'm not done experimenting with the 3D. However, I have spent the last two hours contently playing the game in 2D.
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post #4 of 46 Old 11-19-2011, 06:50 AM
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I wasn't aware that it was in 3D until I read it in the Eurogamer Digital Foundry article just now. Since I'm quite busy with Skyrim right now (initially PS3 version, but I've been playing the PC version instead the last several days), AC: Revelations hasn't been very high on my shopping list, even though I loved the previous games in the series.

The addition of 3D - which the aforementioned article also mentions has virtually no impact on performance (not surprising since it uses the same reprojection system as Arkham City) - just moved it up a few places on that list.
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post #5 of 46 Old 11-19-2011, 09:26 AM
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The reprojection system works better with some games than with others. On the Crysis games, the sense of depth is pretty well negligible for me, Batman: Arkham City has some depth but would never be mistaken for a true stereoscopic game and Assissin's Creed Revelations, artifacts notwithstanding, appears to have the strongest implementation so far with a nice sense of depth most of the time during my limited playtime.
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post #6 of 46 Old 11-21-2011, 10:26 AM
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I picked up the PS3 version today and I've been playing for a couple of hours. So far I've been pretty impressed by the 3D - I thought Arkham City did reasonably well with its reprojection system, and AC: Revelations definitely takes it a step or two further.
While individual objects and characters look flatter than with proper stereoscopic rendering - and things in the far distance also have a tendency to end up on the same "plane" - the 3D depth of the world often delivers some very impressive vistas that stretch far into the screen, starting from the very first minute of the game.

And while the reprojection 3D might have trade-offs in some of the aforementioned areas, as with Arkham City it comes with very few visual trade-offs (well, actually I don't know that as I forgot to check it out in 2D mode before I shut it down ten minutes ago ) or performance comprises. And, also like Arkham, there's absolutely zero visible crosstalk at highest depth setting, unlike almost every proper stereoscopic game I've played that have suffered from that to varying degrees even at medium depth settings.

With this and Arkham I'm really starting to think that reprojection 3D might be the best option for the most graphically intensive games on this aging console generation.
There are some stereoscopic games that manage to look phenomenal without turning into slideshows, but even Uncharted 3 isn't free of issues, such as a significantly lowered resolution (although they hide that much better than Killzone 3 did).
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post #7 of 46 Old 11-21-2011, 03:46 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Miths View Post

With this and Arkham I'm really starting to think that reprojection 3D might be the best option for the most graphically intensive games on this aging console generation.
There are some stereoscopic games that manage to look phenomenal without turning into slideshows, but even Uncharted 3 isn't free of issues, such as a significantly lowered resolution (although they hide that much better than Killzone 3 did).

I think the other advantage of reprojection is it's very easy to implement. My understanding is Trioviz brings in their technology and the game makers don't really have to much spend time getting 3D to work. Games like Gears 3 and Assassin's Creed can get 3D included late in development. Otherwise, I don't think we'd have 3D in these games at all. This is in contrast to Gran Turismo 5 or Uncharted 3, where it sounds like they spent a fair amount of time tinkering the game to get it looking good in 3D.

My own feeling is that Uncharted 3 is a far better 3D experience. You trade a little resolution to get this fantastic 3D experience. To me, it's a good, no-brainer trade. In Assassin's Creed though, it seems more like an even trade. You can get clean 2D, or 3D with artifacts. The 3D provides some great moments, but it also provides just as many distractions. I don't think this is what 3D should be. I think the net effect is it's less immersive.

That said, I'm happy that so many people don't see it that way and are enjoying it. My personal hope is developers work toward getting true stereoscopic 3D to look good within the hardware limitations over the easy reprojection solution. OR, I hope that reprojection can be significantly improved and refined. So far, that seems to be happening?

What I really need is a PC ...
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post #8 of 46 Old 11-21-2011, 10:04 PM
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?? Assassin's Creed ?? Is this playable in 3D on all platforms that the game is for sale on or only the PS3?
As I just purchased this game and got the 'OnLive' Cloud Gaming Console device [Note: I have only had this console for 2 hours and it seems to be a Xbox 360 with out the need for local storage?, as it can use the Xbox game controllers]

I just found out that I can play a game on my PC and pick up the game on the "OnLive" Console..
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post #9 of 46 Old 11-21-2011, 10:34 PM - Thread Starter
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Yes, it's playable in 3D on Xbox 360 as well.
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post #10 of 46 Old 11-22-2011, 04:17 AM
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Originally Posted by Airion View Post

...

What I really need is a PC ...

I've been contemplating hooking up my PC (starting to show its age but still doing well enough in most games with a quad core CPU and a Geforce GTX 260) to my 3D TV, but even though it's perfectly doable of course, I can't see it being done in my living room without annoyances and/or major discomfort.

Running a HDMI cable five meters across the floor - or more discretely around ten meters alongside walls - isn't a problem (though I'm not sure what the best way might be to handle the screen switching when I need to use the TV. Using a two screen setup tends to be an annoyance with different screen resolutions in my experience - not to mention that the TV would only be turned on for use on occasion - and neither is cloning).

(Wireless) mouse and keyboard use is pretty much out, as there's a rather strict limit to how long I would feel inclined to sit hunchbacked over a coffee table.

That leaves a wireless gamepad, which is obviously an option in quite a lot of PC games these days, but certainly not all of them, and not necessarily the way I would prefer to play PC games.
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post #11 of 46 Old 11-22-2011, 07:20 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Miths View Post

And, also like Arkham, there's absolutely zero visible crosstalk at highest depth setting, unlike almost every proper stereoscopic game I've played that have suffered from that to varying degrees even at medium depth settings.

The reprojection method necessarily limits depth to limit artifacts. The less depth, the less you can notice crosstalk. With my current PS3 settings, I get very realistic, deep 3D in Uncharted 3 with zero crosstalk. In Assassin's Creed with the same settings, the depth even at the max setting is small. I'm afraid that your satisfaction with reprojection is because it happens to hide the weaknesses of your 3D display.

As for your post about PCs and wireless devices, I totally agree, hence my unsimley facing a future of 3D on PCs only
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post #12 of 46 Old 11-22-2011, 10:39 AM
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I certainly don't think reprojection 3D is as impressive as full stereoscopic rendering, but it still sounds like I'm more impressed by it than you .
I think the general depth of scenery tends to extend impressively deep into the screen - so much that I really enjoy playing those games (so far Arkham and Revelations) in 3D.
Some of the main problems I notice, as I mentioned, is that individual objects and characters don't have the same depth and solidity to them as they do with stereoscopic 3D rendering.

Uncharted 3 does look spectacular in 3D, but even if I dial back the in-game depth setting to near the lowest (if I recall correctly I've settled for having it around medium) I do get crosstalk in certain cases on my Samsung D550 plasma. It almost always happens on objects in front of a very dark - near black - background. Sometimes those instances are fairly far apart, sometimes they happen frequently enough or last long enough that they become a fairly severe annoyance (although certainly not enough to make me consider switching to 2D mode).

For me the overall most impressive stereoscopic 3D game on PS3 is probably still God of War: Ghost of Sparta. Zero visible crosstalk unless I crank the depth slider all the way to the max, spectacular depth, and (thanks to this being a PSP port and thus a lot less resource demanding than something like UC3 or KZ3) very crisp visuals and smooth performance.
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post #13 of 46 Old 11-22-2011, 05:24 PM
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I've been playing through Assassins in 3D on my new Sony HMZ-T1 (3D head mounted display) and it looks amazing. Actually, all the games I've tried look great. (The new Batman, Gears of War 3, Uncharted 3). The depth on Gears is nice but it only had SBS as an option so the rez hit is a little more noticeable. But still extremely fun and immersive.

Doing a leap of faith in assassins w/ the head mounted display is pretty awesome.

The dual OLED screens make for one of the better pictures I've ever seen. Also, zero cross talk, because there is a screen for each eye (obviously). And the optics make you focus as if you are looking at large theater screen from a distance rather tiny ones in front of your eyes.
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post #14 of 46 Old 11-23-2011, 05:31 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Miths View Post

I certainly don't think reprojection 3D is as impressive as full stereoscopic rendering, but it still sounds like I'm more impressed by it than you .

Sounds like I need to give Assassin's Creed 3D another chance. Maybe I suffered from unreasonably high expectations.

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Originally Posted by Miths View Post

For me the overall most impressive stereoscopic 3D game on PS3 is probably still God of War: Ghost of Sparta. Zero visible crosstalk unless I crank the depth slider all the way to the max, spectacular depth, and (thanks to this being a PSP port and thus a lot less resource demanding than something like UC3 or KZ3) very crisp visuals and smooth performance.

No argument here, Ghost of Sparta is great in 3D. I would add to that the Prince of Persia HD collection and Shadow of the Colossus, all of them originally PS2 or PSP games. If it's a remake, the PS3 has the power to do great 3D. This just shows how it's a question of hardware. As for crosstalk, that's just luck of the draw as far as the game goes. TVs make crosstalk, not games.
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post #15 of 46 Old 11-23-2011, 06:29 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by blizaine View Post

I've been playing through Assassins in 3D on my new Sony HMZ-T1 (3D head mounted display) and it looks amazing. Actually, all the games I've tried look great. (The new Batman, Gears of War 3, Uncharted 3). The depth on Gears is nice but it only had SBS as an option so the rez hit is a little more noticeable. But still extremely fun and immersive.

Doing a leap of faith in assassins w/ the head mounted display is pretty awesome.

The dual OLED screens make for one of the better pictures I've ever seen. Also, zero cross talk, because there is a screen for each eye (obviously). And the optics make you focus as if you are looking at large theater screen from a distance rather tiny ones in front of your eyes.


Interested in purchasing this item. Where did you purchase; thank you.
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post #16 of 46 Old 11-24-2011, 05:28 AM
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...

No argument here, Ghost of Sparta is great in 3D. I would add to that the Prince of Persia HD collection and Shadow of the Colossus, all of them originally PS2 or PSP games. If it's a remake, the PS3 has the power to do great 3D. This just shows how it's a question of hardware. As for crosstalk, that's just luck of the draw as far as the game goes. TVs make crosstalk, not games.

The Digital Foundry analysis of Ico and Shadow of the Colossus suggested that the latter suffered from terrible framerate problems in 3D, all the way down below 20 fps on occasion if I recall correctly. Pretty unforgivable for an upgraded PS2 port.

The Splinter Cell HD remakes had similar problems (I only bought the latest of them from the PSN store, I heard the two earlier games were borderline unplayable in 3D) - although a rushed conversion job is something I would expect from Ubisoft.
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post #17 of 46 Old 11-24-2011, 04:11 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Miths View Post

The Digital Foundry analysis of Ico and Shadow of the Colossus suggested that the latter suffered from terrible framerate problems in 3D, all the way down below 20 fps on occasion if I recall correctly. Pretty unforgivable for an upgraded PS2 port.

Good point, objectively that's maybe not a good example of the PS3 handling 3D well. Subjectively though, my own personal experience with it, is it's fantastic in 3D. The occasional frame rate problems (which the PS2 version had as well) are a small price to pay I think.
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post #18 of 46 Old 11-24-2011, 05:14 PM
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Severe framerate problems (frequent dips down to the mid twenties or lower) is one of the trade-offs I simply can't accept with 3D. Or for that matter with 2D, as it's not exactly been an entirely uncommon problem throughout this entire console generation.
I'd rather have the visuals scaled back than having to suffer through framerate problems.
And as far as visual trade-offs go, I'm not a big fan of resolution drops as a near standard resolution image in 3D really isn't very pretty in most cases (Killzone 3 suffered terrible in that regard in 3D, Uncharted 3 supposedly also has a significant resolution drop in 3D, but somehow they've managed to make it a lot less apparent).

For proper stereoscopic 3D on the current aging (ancient ) console generation, the best option in my opinion are less graphically demanding games (not as heavy on the fancy shaders, real time lighting effects etc.) running at 1280x720 at a rock solid 30 fps or better.
GoW: Ghost of Sparta is a great example of this. Very smooth performance, very sharp visuals that obviously aren't as technologically advanced as eg. God of War 3 but still look artistically great, and phenomenal 3D depth.

But obviously THE best option would be a PS4/XBox 720 sooner rather than later .
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post #19 of 46 Old 11-25-2011, 01:09 AM - Thread Starter
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Severe framerate problems (frequent dips down to the mid twenties or lower) is one of the trade-offs I simply can't accept with 3D.

In any case, please don't stake too strong of an opinion on Shadow of the Colossus' 3D without having experienced it for yourself (or Uncharted 3 for that matter). Digital Foundry is great about giving numbers, but until you play it and see for yourself, it's just that. You might, or might not, be surprised.

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Sounds like I need to give Assassin's Creed 3D another chance.

And I did today for about an hour and a half. I spent that time going around the city looking for treasure, view points, and shops to open. The 3D seems to be at it's best when on rooftops, and it really is a nice effect. However, go down to street level, or add in some action, and it can get pretty bad. The more citizens walking by, the worse. It can really get into a pseudo-stereoscopic mess in narrow streets with lots of people.

So there's some fun to be had with the 3D, but I'll otherwise be sticking with 2D.
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post #20 of 46 Old 11-25-2011, 04:50 AM
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Assassins in 3D only gets a little messy for me when the 3D intensity is cranked up to 10. If I leave it at the default of 7 (or even 8 ) it looks beautiful. Even at street level.



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post #21 of 46 Old 11-25-2011, 05:33 AM
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In any case, please don't stake too strong of an opinion on Shadow of the Colossus' 3D without having experienced it for yourself (or Uncharted 3 for that matter). Digital Foundry is great about giving numbers, but until you play it and see for yourself, it's just that. You might, or might not, be surprised.
...

I've played through two thirds of the singleplayer campaign of Uncharted 3 in 3D (it's a bad habit of mine to almost never finish even the most compelling games - Mass Effect 1+2 are some of the rare exceptions in recent years. I hope to get around to completing UC3 one of these days though, but right now Skyrim is taking up most of my time).
It definitely looks spectacular and hides the resolution drop very well. My only noteworthy problem there is some crosstalk in very dark areas, but that's obviously display related.

I'm not sure if I'll ever get around to buying the Ico/SotC collection - I played a bit of both on PS2, but wasn't really a big fan of either. Although objectively I could certainly see why many would consider them masterpieces on that console.
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post #22 of 46 Old 11-25-2011, 09:39 AM - Thread Starter
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Assassins in 3D only gets a little messy for me when the 3D intensity is cranked up to 10. If I leave it at the default of 7 (or even 8 ) it looks beautiful. Even at street level.

I've had the 3D intensity cranked to 10 the entire time. Well damn, just when I had given up on the 3D, you've given me a good reason to try it again! Given the limits of reprojection, I could see how lower depth could mean less mess. On the other hand, even at 10 the depth is pretty low. Well, seeing is believing, I'll have to try. Thanks for the tip!
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post #23 of 46 Old 12-02-2011, 08:36 AM - Thread Starter
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Assassins in 3D only gets a little messy for me when the 3D intensity is cranked up to 10. If I leave it at the default of 7 (or even 8 ) it looks beautiful. Even at street level.

Okay, I tried this tonight. I had earlier played the game with 3D depth cranked to 10 and complained of messy artifacts. Trying the game with 3D intensity at 7, it was indeed less messy. Artifacts were still there, but less noticeable. Also less noticeable was depth. It's about 2.2D, and it's just not worth it. The game is better played in clean crisp 2D.

Craving some true steroscopic 3D, I put in Uncharted 3. The difference is light and day. While Uncharted 3 takes a modest resolution hit, the end result is a vastly superior, clean 3D experience. Assassin's Creed is clearly better in 2D, while Uncharted 3 is clearly better in 3D. While reprojection may be easy to implement, I hope developers will take the time to get their games running in decent stereoscopic 3D. I'm afraid that reprojection will only disappoint and turn people away from 3D gaming.

Assassin's Creed: Revelation's 3D is optional, a bonus of sorts, so it is difficult to criticize. I hate it when people call 3D a gimmick, and yet I can't help but think that the 3D in this game is a gimmick. As much as I want to praise Ubisoft for including 3D at all, I can't deny that I'm very disappointed.
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post #24 of 46 Old 12-04-2011, 09:46 AM
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I bought Revelations yesterday and got very concerned that the box had no mention of 3D while the PS3 did. I know the thread starter said it was but nobody who who made any comments had actually played on the 360. None of the official reviews mentioned 3D. I finally unwrapped the game after reading that Ubisoft announced on October 15th that 3D was supported on all platforms.

I am happy to report that it is true. The 3D looks great on my 92" DLP, no crosstalk even with maximum depth setting of 10. I got burned once with Call of Duty:Modern Warfare III when it was not in 3D while the Black Ops was.
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post #25 of 46 Old 12-09-2011, 04:34 PM
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I bought Revelations yesterday and got very concerned that the box had no mention of 3D while the PS3 did. I know the thread starter said it was but nobody who who made any comments had actually played on the 360. None of the official reviews mentioned 3D. I finally unwrapped the game after reading that Ubisoft announced on October 15th that 3D was supported on all platforms.

I am happy to report that it is true. The 3D looks great on my 92" DLP, no crosstalk even with maximum depth setting of 10. I got burned once with Call of Duty:Modern Warfare III when it was not in 3D while the Black Ops was.

Wow 92". I bet the 3d depth on that huge screen is amazing. Have you ever tried some PC gaming on there? High-end PC graphics with true 1080p 3d resolution would be something else....
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post #26 of 46 Old 12-09-2011, 06:20 PM
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post #27 of 46 Old 12-10-2011, 09:38 AM
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Wow 92". I bet the 3d depth on that huge screen is amazing. Have you ever tried some PC gaming on there? High-end PC graphics with true 1080p 3d resolution would be something else....

Yes I have my PC also hooked up to the TV and I bought Skyrim for the PC for better graphics and 3D through Nvdia Vision. But when I tried to play it it would not enable 3D as the Nvidia emitter would not turn bright green. On my previous 82" Mitsubishi (now in the bedroom) I could get 1080P in 3D (Just Cause 2 looked great). It turns out that Nvidia decided to support new 3D TVs with only 3DPlay. But 3DPlay limits you to only 720P in the game and the TV. The advantage is you use the TVs emitter and glasses and you don't have to physically change emitters. So now I play Skyrim in 720P. It still looks good but I miss 1080P.
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post #28 of 46 Old 12-16-2011, 07:36 PM
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Call me stupid, but how do you enable it? All I'm seeing is Inficolor and frame packing, is frame packing the right choice?
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post #29 of 46 Old 12-17-2011, 01:36 AM - Thread Starter
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Yep, frame packing is it.
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post #30 of 46 Old 12-17-2011, 07:14 AM
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Just found out this one will be under the tree! Yes!

Search or copy and paste-> Joe Rod Home Theater .Com <-to check out my latest Reviews.

Check out these new Lighted Cup Holders:
http://hstrial-jrodriguez996.homeste...=1402680301175
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