Transformers: Dark of the Moon 3D excessive crosstalk? - Page 2 - AVS Forum
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post #31 of 60 Old 02-10-2012, 04:15 PM - Thread Starter
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Ugh such a shame. I've emailed Rafael Pacheko at Panasonic/Hartland Services, since I dealt with him when I had seriously color uniformity issues with my PT-AE4000. He eventually took care of things.., so hopefully he'll take care of my PT-AE7000U because right now it's a complete disaster.
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post #32 of 60 Old 02-10-2012, 04:47 PM
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Take a look at Zombie's comparison thread. Great shots of tough scenes showing none to a little to a lot of cross-talk between the various projectors. Too bad Jason didn't have a Panasonic in the shootout. By and large the DLPs have the lowest incidence (next to none) of ghosting. The Epson 5010 and the 2012 Sonys are also very good. The JVCs show more problems than the others. I use both a DLP and an Epson 6010 for 3D. I'll take a look at Transformers 3 (you owe me big time since I do not like this movie at all) and see how the Epson fares. Do not give up on 3D because your projector has a problem. It may be defective or else everyone else who owns one just pretends its not there. Hear no evil, see no evil, speak no evil.

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1382091
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post #33 of 60 Old 02-11-2012, 01:36 PM - Thread Starter
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Well after testing the Epson 5010, it's clear my Panasonic is just broken. They should be very similar in 3D, and the Epson provides a great 3D image whereas my Panasonic is just borked. And I used my Panasonic 3rd generation glasses with the Epson, too. *sigh*

Warranty repair/replacement here we go!
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post #34 of 60 Old 02-12-2012, 01:13 PM
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they really need to address the brightness issue. especially since the 3d version comes with a 2d disc that clearly shows the difference!!!!!!!
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post #35 of 60 Old 02-12-2012, 04:50 PM
 
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I have the Epson 3010...and Transformers 3 3d...is the only movie ive watched that I couldn't see any crosstalk at all....ive watched arleast 30 3d movies and can see crosstalk on everyone except TF3 3D
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post #36 of 60 Old 02-12-2012, 05:02 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by quickfire View Post

I have the Epson 3010...and Transformers 3 3d...is the only movie ive watched that I couldn't see any crosstalk at all....ive watched arleast 30 3d movies and can see crosstalk on everyone except TF3 3D

Reduce the brightness on your projector so white is more of a dark limey urine color, and your other movies should improve in the crosstalk category too.


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A movie with good 3D does not necessarily equal a good 3D movie!

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post #37 of 60 Old 02-12-2012, 05:30 PM
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DLP for the win! No cross talk on anything for me (yet).


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post #38 of 60 Old 02-13-2012, 03:32 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cakefoo View Post

Reduce the brightness on your projector so white is more of a dark limey urine color, and your other movies should improve in the crosstalk category too.

I don't see crosstalk thru out the the entire movies that ive watched....some have very little...some have a lot.
The Epsson 3010......does a great job with 3d .....TRANSFORMERS 3 3D.....is near perfect...if it could of had some popout moments...it would be the perfect 3d reference disc...but that's my opinion.
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post #39 of 60 Old 02-13-2012, 04:33 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cakefoo View Post

Reduce the brightness on your projector so white is more of a dark limey urine color, and your other movies should improve in the crosstalk category too.

When I use the DLP-Link emitter on my rear-projection DLP Mits, that's pretty much exactly what happens to the color. The Mits does it automatically, using its other internal emitter produces more natural colors with Mits 3D glasses by Xpand. When you wear the DLP-Link glasses, the color change is offset correctly.

Agree with the poster above, not much in the way of "out there" pop out but it seems the term "good 3D" currently labeled by the industry means more depth into the screen than out I guess.

P.S. I saw this in a 3D theater and the Blu-ray 3D looks the same to my eyes. I wanted to see if 'current' 3D in the theaters popped out more but this wasn't the best movie to judge it.


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post #40 of 60 Old 02-13-2012, 05:42 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wesley Hester View Post

When I use the DLP-Link emitter on my rear-projection DLP Mits, that's pretty much exactly what happens to the color. The Mits does it automatically, using its other internal emitter produces more natural colors with Mits 3D glasses by Xpand. When you wear the DLP-Link glasses, the color change is offset correctly.

The tint is blue, right? I own a Mitsubishi and have put it in DLP Link mode to record at 600fps what happens with DLP Link Flash. It may look like the images are tinted but it's actually displaying 3 separate images- the left eye, the right eye, and then a solid blue frame.

You can catch it at the :37 mark - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fTnfqOw_BkE

The earlier part is about why rainbows happen on DLP. All research I did for myself to investigate how DLP tech works. :P


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post #41 of 60 Old 02-13-2012, 07:28 PM
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Originally Posted by miahallen View Post

DLP for the win! No cross talk on anything for me (yet).

You KNOW it BROTHA!!!
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post #42 of 60 Old 02-14-2012, 08:03 AM
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I watched over the weekend on my Samsung 55UNC8000 and the beginning had tons of crosstalk but it cleared up after 20-30 minutes. I didn't notice the brightness issue because I was so relieved to have the crosstalk issue resolved!
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post #43 of 60 Old 02-14-2012, 12:02 PM
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I am using a 65hx929 and I didn't notice any crosstalk.
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post #44 of 60 Old 02-14-2012, 12:32 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by miahallen View Post

DLP for the win! No cross talk on anything for me (yet).

I'm sure DLP's are great, but they won't work in everyone's environment.

I have a small room with a big screen. Anything but a Panny, will not throw a big enough picture, or has terrible SDE (including the EPSONs).
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post #45 of 60 Old 02-14-2012, 03:15 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rach View Post

I watched over the weekend on my Samsung 55UNC8000 and the beginning had tons of crosstalk but it cleared up after 20-30 minutes. I didn't notice the brightness issue because I was so relieved to have the crosstalk issue resolved!

Did you let your TV warm up first before viewing the movie in 3D?
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post #46 of 60 Old 02-14-2012, 04:47 PM
 
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Originally Posted by almostinsane View Post


Did you let your TV warm up first before viewing the movie in 3D?

It's an LED/LCD...letting it warm up won't accomplish anything.
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post #47 of 60 Old 02-14-2012, 05:41 PM
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Originally Posted by RedOctober205 View Post

It's an LED/LCD...letting it warm up won't accomplish anything.

Actually being an LCD screen warming it up for an hour at least depending on the ambient temperature of the room helps reduce crosstalk significantly. Try watching a 3D Blu-ray scene after a cold boot from the TV and try watching the scene again after letting it heat up after at least an hour an you'll notice far less crosstalk. Whenever I intend on watching a 3D movie on my Sony HX800 I either turn on my TV early and have it on some random TV channel for a while or play a game. Here's what a Panasonic rep had to say about Plasma vs LCD 3DTV's.
Quote:


Wagenseil also highlighted another factor which affects crosstalk in LCD panels, which is heat.

As an LCD TV heats up, the liquid crystals in the panel become less viscous and are thus more agile.

This means a cold panel cannot perform as well as a hot panel, because the liquid crystals cannot twist as quickly, which causes crosstalk issues.


"Another thing you don't have with plasma is that you have no run-in time in terms of heat," says Wagenseil.

"3D LCDs need a run-in time of between 60 and 90 minutes in order to achieve a reasonable quality, but with plasma you can just switch it on and it's maximum quality straight away."

http://3dradar.techradar.com/3d-tech...-tv-09-09-2010
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post #48 of 60 Old 02-15-2012, 07:24 AM
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Unfortunately, the LED warm time is accurate...which is the reason I had significant crosstalk in the first part of T3.
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post #49 of 60 Old 02-28-2012, 06:02 AM
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I'm on a Samsung PN50C680 plasma, and I didn't notice any ghosting/crosstalk at all in any scenes. Not even the one where Deep Wang (lol.... that was a great name for the character) was holding the guns up at the bird robot thing and they were coming out of the screen. The worst I've ever seen it on my display has been with Piranha 3D, when they were diving down to the underwater lake when the girl was coming out of the screen (great 3D effect aside from that though) and in My Bloody Valentine, with the hand hanging down from the gurney at the beginning of the movie. I'm using my PS3 as the blu-ray player.
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post #50 of 60 Old 04-07-2012, 10:24 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rach View Post

I watched over the weekend on my Samsung 55UNC8000 and the beginning had tons of crosstalk but it cleared up after 20-30 minutes. I didn't notice the brightness issue because I was so relieved to have the crosstalk issue resolved!

I also have a 55UNC8000 LED and finally watched this last night (not expecting much), and was very impressed. Zero crosstalk, zero eyestrain made this a very enjoyable 3D experience. Nice depth. If it had a couple more major pop out effects it would be at the top of my list.
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post #51 of 60 Old 04-07-2012, 11:55 AM
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The only dissapointing thing for me was that there were instances where characters in the foreground were not in 3D! I removed my glasses and sure enough, just bog standard 2D characters displayed on screen.

The 3D effect is lost to some degree when they don't keep both foreground and backround elements in 3D because you end up seeing flat 2D characters against 3D backrounds. I guess it was their first go at a 3D film and they will get better given time to learn how to use this new tool.

No ghosting though.
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post #52 of 60 Old 04-07-2012, 06:07 PM
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I am using Optoma hd33,and was seeing ghosting ocassionaly with the the VIP dlp link glasses.I ordered the optoma z201 second gen dlp glasses and ghosting is now nonexistent in transformers.Also 3d picture was improved with better blacks and contrast.I never thought glasses made that much of a difference.Source is the oppo 93.
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post #53 of 60 Old 04-07-2012, 06:41 PM
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I am using Optoma hd33,and was seeing ghosting ocassionaly with the the VIP dlp link glasses.I ordered the optoma z201 second gen dlp glasses and ghosting is now nonexistent in transformers.Also 3d picture was improved with better blacks and contrast.I never thought glasses made that much of a difference.Source is the oppo 93.

Quit copying me, lol. I did the exact same thing with the exact same glasses. I'm convinced that the VIPs suck big time. Sadly, I have 6 pairs of them, but I let my guests use them tee-hee. The 201s are pure win.

My problem with TF3 wasn't the crosstalk, but the nauseating action scenes. There was too much separation of the 3D in those scenes on my setup (Optoma HD3300). My eyes couldn't resolve what was going on and often I'd have to turn away. My guests did the same. Weird how some movies do that and some, like Hugo, don't bother me at all. Granted, there wasn't much action in Hugo, but when there was action, it didn't bother my eyes.

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post #54 of 60 Old 04-07-2012, 06:53 PM
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Watched this on my Sammy e8000, no xtalk at all. I was also intently looking for brightness issue but it didn't seem to change any for me - that I noticed. I would also like to reccomend the Imax under the sea 3d movie (the one with Jim Carey) If you can view all those tiny fish swimming around in 3d with no xtalk your tv is doing its job well. I think that is the most challenging 3d movie yet.(as far as all those little fish moving around so quickly). Loved the part with the eel swimming towards you - it really looked like it was in between the tv and me - Gets my vote for best 3d scene.

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post #55 of 60 Old 04-07-2012, 10:11 PM
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Loved the part with the eel swimming towards you - it really looked like it was in between the tv and me - Gets my vote for best 3d scene.

Hrrmm. Potato Cod scene wins it for me. I paused it at that scene, pet the fish, then kept going. Seriously, that scene is pure win for 3D popout.

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post #56 of 60 Old 04-08-2012, 06:59 AM
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Originally Posted by blastermaster View Post

Quit copying me, lol. I did the exact same thing with the exact same glasses. I'm convinced that the VIPs suck big time. Sadly, I have 6 pairs of them, but I let my guests use them tee-hee. The 201s are pure win.

My problem with TF3 wasn't the crosstalk, but the nauseating action scenes. There was too much separation of the 3D in those scenes on my setup (Optoma HD3300). My eyes couldn't resolve what was going on and often I'd have to turn away. My guests did the same. Weird how some movies do that and some, like Hugo, don't bother me at all. Granted, there wasn't much action in Hugo, but when there was action, it didn't bother my eyes.

count me in with the "201's fixing everything crowd". these things eliminate ALL crosstalk even in the most problematic scenes and do seem to improve depth and contrast. not the most attractive glasses, but they do the job. i am also using the HD3300 projector. i would highly recommend these optoma dlp link glasses for everyone has dlp link as an option.
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post #57 of 60 Old 04-25-2012, 01:17 AM
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I have Epson 3010 and I have noticed that when i cold start my projector I dont see any crosstalk and it starts appearing after 10-15 minutes of warm up and once 3010 is heat up, crosstalk becomes permanent. Is there any fix for this issue.
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post #58 of 60 Old 04-25-2012, 10:07 PM
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i can 100% confirm that as the film goes on it gets darker and darker, which the last hour or so is almost unbearable (if your 3d display is already not super bright). whether this is an error, or whether they did this to "reduce" crosstalk by lowering the contrast i have no clue, but it should be recalled.
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post #59 of 60 Old 04-25-2012, 11:14 PM
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Originally Posted by mankhan View Post

I have Epson 3010 and I have noticed that when i cold start my projector I dont see any crosstalk and it starts appearing after 10-15 minutes of warm up and once 3010 is heat up, crosstalk becomes permanent. Is there any fix for this issue.

Get a passive 3d display, watched it with zero crosstalk
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post #60 of 60 Old 11-19-2012, 11:41 AM
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Originally Posted by wonka702 View Post


Get a passive 3d display, watched it with zero crosstalk

Nonsense! Just got rid of my Panny L55ET5B due to really bad xtalk. Might be ok for some things but it will show up eventually.
Was the worst for me when 3d gaming with any setting over 15% depth. Not so bad in movies but still there none the less.

The reason I got a passive was I heard it supposedly had zero xtalk, but no, it certainly does. And if you tilt your head a few degrees to right or left, parts of the image turn purple.

DLP is the only tech available that can give you zero xtalk.

Getting a HD33 and a 100" screen for the same price that I paid for the Panny, so that should be much better.

Regarding the guys that mentioned the new DLP glasses for the optoma pj's, how do they compare to the RF ones for xtalk performance and brightness?
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