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post #91 of 117 Old 05-23-2012, 11:51 PM
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I've just purchased this movie on blu-ray it's not in 3D but when I find a copy in 3d I'll purchase it
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post #92 of 117 Old 05-24-2012, 12:23 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bryceo View Post

I've just purchased this movie on blu-ray it's not in 3D but when I find a copy in 3d I'll purchase it

pre-ordered or purchased? i dont think its coming out for at lesat a few more months.
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post #93 of 117 Old 05-24-2012, 03:37 AM
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Originally Posted by wonka702 View Post

You sound a little bitter? Are you a cinematographer who applied but lost out on the job to Seamus?

If I wake up in the morning with a positive attitude I can have a positive day.
If I wake up all pissed off and decide im gonna be pissed I usually am all day long.

My point? You already don't want to even enjoy the 3d experience that is there and have decided, without seeing it, to make pre-determined conclusions.

Am I wrong?

Yes you are wrong.

The only thing I am bitter about is being consistently dissapointed with converted 2D movies! I am excited and thrilled to watch movies like Avatar, Hugo, Sanctum etc because the 3D is just so good but conversions never fail to dissapoint.

I am not a cinematographer. I am just a keen 3D enthusiast who simply dislikes conversions with a passion because, they just don't work!

In my opinion as nothing more than a fan of 3D, this is what is needed for a really good 3D experience:-

1. Depth in the scene with foreground, middleground and background elements in the shot. (It helps reinforce the sense of space)
2. In focus backrounds for the vast majority of shots with very sparce use of narrow depth of field reserved for close-ups only. (People like to look around)
3. All objects and characters in 3D. Actors in the shot must have shape and look real, like they do if they are stood in front of you. (Difficult with conversions)
4. 3D Consistency throughout the movie, no sudden loss of 3D between shots. (Difficult with copnversions)

A natively shot 3D movie meets every one of these requirements but not one conversion to date has ever been able to.

I was hopefull that Avengers would be different but reading the realvision article demonstrates that the same old issues continue to plague conversions, even this one.
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post #94 of 117 Old 05-24-2012, 05:02 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cbcdesign View Post


Yes you are wrong.

The only thing I am bitter about is being consistently dissapointed with converted 2D movies! I am excited and thrilled to watch movies like Avatar, Hugo, Sanctum etc because the 3D is just so good but conversions never fail to dissapoint.

I am not a cinematographer. I am just a keen 3D enthusiast who simply dislikes conversions with a passion because, they just don't work!

In my opinion as nothing more than a fan of 3D, this is what is needed for a really good 3D experience:-

1. Depth in the scene with foreground, middleground and background elements in the shot. (It helps reinforce the sense of space)
2. In focus backrounds for the vast majority of shots with very sparce use of narrow depth of field reserved for close-ups only. (People like to look around)
3. All objects and characters in 3D. Actors in the shot must have shape and look real, like they do if they are stood in front of you. (Difficult with conversions)
4. 3D Consistency throughout the movie, no sudden loss of 3D between shots. (Difficult with copnversions)

A natively shot 3D movie meets every one of these requirements but not one conversion to date has ever been able to.

I was hopefull that Avengers would be different but reading the realvision article demonstrates that the same old issues continue to plague conversions, even this one.

You read a review and you bash the 3d because it was post converted. Well giess what? It had depth, it had pop out, they didn't look like cardboard cutouts because 90% off this movie was cgi and post converting CGI is pretty decent because they just render the CGI in 3d. The 3d was fun and added to the overall experience. Maybe you should just try and enjoy yourself a little more and instead of reading someone else's opinion, read someone else's opinion and then see the source of the review and then write your own instead of just jumping on the negative bandwagon.
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post #95 of 117 Old 05-24-2012, 07:12 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wonka702 View Post

You read a review and you bash the 3d because it was post converted. Well giess what? It had depth, it had pop out, they didn't look like cardboard cutouts because 90% off this movie was cgi and post converting CGI is pretty decent because they just render the CGI in 3d. The 3d was fun and added to the overall experience. Maybe you should just try and enjoy yourself a little more and instead of reading someone else's opinion, read someone else's opinion and then see the source of the review and then write your own instead of just jumping on the negative bandwagon.

Agreed.

I wish some of these people who's first comment is always.."all conversions suck"...would actually watch some good ones without wanting to hate it just because it was converted. Critical thinking is a good thing, but the internet seems to full of negativity for no reason these days.
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post #96 of 117 Old 05-24-2012, 09:08 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by adpayne View Post

Agreed.

I wish some of these people who's first comment is always.."all conversions suck"...would actually watch some good ones without wanting to hate it just because it was converted. Critical thinking is a good thing, but the internet seems to full of negativity for no reason these days.

And I wish people would stop claiming conversions come close to native 3D shoots because they just don't, not yet anyway! Some aspects do but the really difficult stuff such as actual human characters never look quite right.

How about you point to just one conversion that actualy matches a movie shot using 3D rigs too? You claim that there are good ones so point them out!

Wonka, please don't accuse me of jumping on any bandwaggon. I have sound reasons why I dislike conversions based upon my observations of them up to now. This IS the Audio Video Science forum too where I would have thought reasoned opinions for or against 3D conversions would be expected!

As for the review, well the writer summed up very nicely what I notice in every 3D conversion I have seen so far but cannot express anywhere near as eloquently.
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post #97 of 117 Old 05-24-2012, 11:19 AM
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Avengers doesn't look native. Brave, Prometheus and Spiderman are all native, all trailers played before Avengers. All of them had a natural consistent sense of depth from near to far. Avengers, while one of the best conversions in terms of attention to cleanliness of edges, still has a certain compressed look to it. That's not to say the characters looked like cardboard cutouts-- they just looked unnatural. Titanic is the only conversion I've seen where the depth comes close to looking correct, but that was a major conversion project and Cameron was certainly trying to prove it could work well.


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A movie with good 3D does not necessarily equal a good 3D movie!

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post #98 of 117 Old 05-24-2012, 11:52 AM
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Yes, I would second that. Titanic was very good for a conversion, limited only by the narrow depth of field used in some of the shots and the odd scene that seemed to have been shot out of focus? A darn good effort though.

Very much looking forward to seeing Prometheus. These more "seasoned" directors and their DOP's seem to have a good handle on 3D!
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post #99 of 117 Old 05-24-2012, 12:02 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cbcdesign View Post

...This IS the Audio Video Science forum too where I would have thought reasoned opinions for or against 3D conversions would be expected!..

This is the point well put.. The "Science" forum. I've been making a similar point recently to Cinematographers and to a few respected Cinematographer forums on this one question: "How come Cinematographers are letting anomalies such as squashed human faces and other artifacts of conversion in a frame pass through, when in regular cinematography, the very thought of noise, (bad light, bad dynamic range) or lens aberrations would never be tolerated)


On a related note, creative usage of selective depth of field in a 3D shot *can* work in narrative scenes. It does need "thinking in 3D" to pull it off.

For the record, as I stated in my article, Avengers was a well done conversion (even if thanks to it being a Hybrid Film (mix of native stereo CG rendering))

Regards
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author: "Think in 3D"
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post #100 of 117 Old 05-25-2012, 07:59 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cbcdesign View Post

And I wish people would stop claiming conversions come close to native 3D shoots because they just don't, not yet anyway! Some aspects do but the really difficult stuff such as actual human characters never look quite right.

How about you point to just one conversion that actualy matches a movie shot using 3D rigs too? You claim that there are good ones so point them out!

Wonka, please don't accuse me of jumping on any bandwaggon. I have sound reasons why I dislike conversions based upon my observations of them up to now. This IS the Audio Video Science forum too where I would have thought reasoned opinions for or against 3D conversions would be expected!

As for the review, well the writer summed up very nicely what I notice in every 3D conversion I have seen so far but cannot express anywhere near as eloquently.

My point was many people like you have a built in predjudice against converted 3D. You are actively looking for flaws, instead of enjoying the film as most do.

This was just proven to me (not about you) when reading a UK review of 'Piranha 3DD'. The reviewer was quick to mention the shoddy conversion. He obviously was not aware the film was shot with Paradise 3D rigs.

(The review was from the new film, not the previous converted one.)

Yes. This is a "science" forum. My reasoned opinion was that I enjoyed Avengers in 3D. I've also enjoyed many other conversions such as Alice in Wonderland.
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post #101 of 117 Old 05-25-2012, 01:24 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by adpayne View Post

My point was many people like you have a built in predjudice against converted 3D. You are actively looking for flaws, instead of enjoying the film as most do.

Anybody who recognises the differences between converted 3D and native 3D is going to be prejudiced against conversions and rightly so, particularly on a science based forum!

As for your comments regarding an active search for flaws, not so!
Some of us are just more sensitive to inconsistencies in 3D and find the flaws jarring which it takes us out of the moment. It is these flaws that spoil the experience and reduce the enjoyment, not an in-built desire to find fault with the process. It's a bit like scratches on an vinyl LP, it just spoils the experience to some degree.

I certainly think that people who complain about problems with converted 3D are the ones helping to drive up standards too. A "good enough" attitude persuades studios to continue converting to 3D in post production instead of shooting native 3D to begin with.

I cannot comment on 'Piranha 3DD' other than to say that if the 3D is as terrible as the movie would appear to be, its not surprising it was mistaken for a conversion. It sounds utterly dreadfull frankly. You can give a paintbrush to a chimp but he isn't going to paint like monet with it is he?
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post #102 of 117 Old 05-25-2012, 11:45 PM
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I've been getting quite a few hits from this discussion thread (and from another site, blu-ray forums) to the Avengers and John Carter article on the realvision knowledgebase.

As it's clear that many of you are looking for more on the art of 3D storytelling, and not just sapping up 3D (which is what the lazy production studios and Directors want)... I feel it would be great to let the discerning public and AVS aficionados learn a bit more on what to look for, when watching a 3D film.

I've now updated the Google Books preview.
Happy reading. http://books.google.ae/books?id=s3li...page&q&f=false

And if it's interesting... by all means, find the book on Amazon.
Cheers.
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post #103 of 117 Old 05-26-2012, 01:23 PM
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Reading your book at the moment. Very interesting it is too.
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post #104 of 117 Old 05-27-2012, 12:00 AM
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Originally Posted by cbcdesign View Post

Reading your book at the moment. Very interesting it is too.

Thank you for the kind words Cbcdesign.
If you like, send me a name and a website of yours (either personal or business) and I'll link to the "People reading Think in 3D" section of the realvision knowledgebase

e m a i l is info at realvision dot ae
If you do have the time a review on Amazon would help spread the word.

Regards
Clyde
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post #105 of 117 Old 05-29-2012, 12:20 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cbcdesign View Post

As for your comments regarding an active search for flaws, not so!
Some of us are just more sensitive to inconsistencies in 3D and find the flaws jarring which it takes us out of the moment. It is these flaws that spoil the experience and reduce the enjoyment, not an in-built desire to find fault with the process. It's a bit like scratches on an vinyl LP, it just spoils the experience to some degree.

Fair enough. I'm interested in the subject, but am afraid the same would happen to me if I investigated further.

I'm very picky when it comes to my projector and audio equipment..but once it is set up and calibrated I just want to enjoy it.
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post #106 of 117 Old 05-29-2012, 05:18 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cbcdesign View Post

Yes you are wrong.

The only thing I am bitter about is being consistently dissapointed with converted 2D movies! I am excited and thrilled to watch movies like Avatar, Hugo, Sanctum etc because the 3D is just so good but conversions never fail to dissapoint.

I am not a cinematographer. I am just a keen 3D enthusiast who simply dislikes conversions with a passion because, they just don't work!

In my opinion as nothing more than a fan of 3D, this is what is needed for a really good 3D experience:-

1. Depth in the scene with foreground, middleground and background elements in the shot. (It helps reinforce the sense of space)
2. In focus backrounds for the vast majority of shots with very sparce use of narrow depth of field reserved for close-ups only. (People like to look around)
3. All objects and characters in 3D. Actors in the shot must have shape and look real, like they do if they are stood in front of you. (Difficult with conversions)
4. 3D Consistency throughout the movie, no sudden loss of 3D between shots. (Difficult with copnversions)

A natively shot 3D movie meets every one of these requirements but not one conversion to date has ever been able to.

I was hopefull that Avengers would be different but reading the realvision article demonstrates that the same old issues continue to plague conversions, even this one.

I'd like to add one more item to your must do in 3d list:
Don't break the frame with in-front-of-screen (pop out) objects!!!!

That is what killed Tahiti-Ultimate Wave for me. i.e. the board on top of the car, the wood snag on the beach. That and the over the hill surfers sitting and talking and the heads chopped off in surfing shots. Where's Bruce Brown when you need him.

My test for a bad 3d movie is if someone your showing it to asks if you paid money for it, then it's bad.
T-Ultimate Wave and Legends of Flight both met this criteria.
td
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post #107 of 117 Old 05-30-2012, 08:21 PM
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I saw the Avengers with my wife and 3 kids last weekend. I don't go out to the movies a lot, and usually when I do it's to see a 3D flick like Avatar, Transformers or Hugo. This time around I read the reviews, and just felt it wouldn't be worth the extra $$ and watched Avengers in 2D.

But now I'm starved for some good quality 3D. I need my fix. Looking forward to either Spiderman or that Prometheus next in 3D.
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post #108 of 117 Old 06-03-2012, 06:53 AM
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The pre-order for this is up at Amazon.com. No release date stated, but you can clip a coupon for $5 off.

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post #109 of 117 Old 06-03-2012, 09:59 AM
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Just ordered my copy. I saw the movie yesterday and I was really impressed. Good 3D, lots of action and some humor. While on Amazon I was notified that my $6,000 92" Mitsubishi that I bought for $4,800 was now $3,000. That is a great deal for great 3D experiences.
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post #110 of 117 Old 06-08-2012, 04:53 AM
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I have per-ordered this one now in 3D - can't wait smile.gif. I'm in Australia and we have a BR release date of 29th August. hdmoviesource.com has the US release date as 25th September.
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post #111 of 117 Old 06-08-2012, 10:52 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by johnny905 View Post

But now I'm starved for some good quality 3D. I need my fix. Looking forward to either Spiderman or that Prometheus next in 3D.
Go see Prometheus!


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post #112 of 117 Old 06-08-2012, 01:30 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by johnny905 View Post

I saw the Avengers with my wife and 3 kids last weekend. I don't go out to the movies a lot, and usually when I do it's to see a 3D flick like Avatar, Transformers or Hugo. This time around I read the reviews, and just felt it wouldn't be worth the extra $$ and watched Avengers in 2D.


But now I'm starved for some good quality 3D. I need my fix. Looking forward to either Spiderman or that Prometheus next in 3D.

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Go see Prometheus!

Having seen all of Prometheus and the trailer for Spiderman at IMAX, I'm going to say that Spiderman should be the one to go to for fun 3d. Prometheus 3d wasn't very impressive to me, considering it was shot natively. I want to be blown away and immersed into the action, and not just come out of the movie thinking "it was so natural, I barely noticed it".
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post #113 of 117 Old 06-08-2012, 08:55 PM
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If you want a fun 3D movie, take the kids to Madagascar 3. That one should look great when it hits 3D Blu-ray.


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post #114 of 117 Old 06-08-2012, 09:41 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by maintman View Post

Having seen all of Prometheus and the trailer for Spiderman at IMAX, I'm going to say that Spiderman should be the one to go to for fun 3d. Prometheus 3d wasn't very impressive to me, considering it was shot natively. I want to be blown away and immersed into the action, and not just come out of the movie thinking "it was so natural, I barely noticed it".
Prometheus looked right, a sci-fi horror shouldn't be chock full of 3D moments like ninja throwing stars and flying axes. That's for 13 year old boys.


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post #115 of 117 Old 06-09-2012, 11:23 PM
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I dont find it very interesting in 3D. My expectations were lot higher than what we got actually. Highly disappointed.
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post #116 of 117 Old 06-10-2012, 01:13 AM
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Prometheus looked right, a sci-fi horror shouldn't be chock full of 3D moments like ninja throwing stars and flying axes. That's for 13 year old boys.

If looking right equals looking like it's barely in 3d, and viewers would not miss much watching the 2d version, then I guess I'll be fine with having adolescent tastes. I've seen it twice now (did not want to go the second time, but I let my family talk me into it since tickets were already pre-purchased) on IMAX, and I was hoping it would be better since we had better/optimal seats. But that still wasn't the case. I did a lot of glasses on and off tests during the second viewing, and still feel that the 3d just doesn't add a lot. There are a few scenes with slight exceptions though, I guess.
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post #117 of 117 Old 06-10-2012, 02:04 AM
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I'm the opposite. I thought there were only a few scenes where it was too subtle.


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