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post #1 of 15 Old 10-27-2012, 01:32 PM - Thread Starter
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The only scene I have seen that gives proper popout is the chainsaw guy on youtube.

I remember when I saw avatar in the cinema, at the parts where, he was doing the video log, when there were subtitles and when there were the 3d maps etc. on screen , they were popping right off the screen.
On my set they are at the screen level and everything else is setback behind them.
Is there any player with controls to shift the screen depth so I could set it so as lets say sully is at the screen level but the subtitles are projected out of the screen?

The depth and everything looks great but I definitely remember more popout in the cinema.
Is it even possible to shift this plane in a player?

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Mark.

Screen is Panasonic L55et5B by the way, and using TMT to play blurays on the pc with an LG bluray player/burner.
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post #2 of 15 Old 10-27-2012, 02:19 PM
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There is a depth slider in the TMT 3D menu.
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post #3 of 15 Old 10-27-2012, 02:33 PM - Thread Starter
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Doesn't seem to do anything? Does this only work on the registered version, as I am using the free trial.
Assumed that was for 2d-3d conversion?
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post #4 of 15 Old 10-27-2012, 04:42 PM
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Not conversions, blu-ray 3D. Also in the 3D menu, try switching the L/R eye sync. I had that problem with movies not looking right and it looked fine after swapping the eye sync.
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post #5 of 15 Old 10-27-2012, 09:24 PM - Thread Starter
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Thanks for the reply. Eye swap is ok, just tried.
So is the fact that the depth and also the colour adjustments do nothing, to do with it being a trial?
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post #6 of 15 Old 04-14-2013, 06:00 PM
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Where the 3D image sits relative to the screen plane is called the convergence point. Sure, many setups allow to adjust this, but setting the convergence of each stereo shot is a decision made by the stereographers during the post-production process. And where a character, vehicle, building, etc sit relative to the screen plane affects it's scale in stereo. A Transformer coming out of screen looks smaller than if it's behind the screen. That's just one example, but the point is that the stereographer makes a creative decision on where to play the depth so changing this after the fact can go against the original filmmaker's intentions. But it's fun to do as a gag with certain types of content.

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post #7 of 15 Old 04-14-2013, 07:32 PM
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SOS Planet has the best 3d pop out I've ever seen. In the beginning it shows the earth rotating for solid 2 mins, it looks like it was floating in my living room I could reach out and touch it.
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post #8 of 15 Old 04-15-2013, 12:11 PM
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I am quite impressed with the ROV grab mechanism that pops out of the screen in Ghosts of the Abyss.
I remember having real difficulty focussing on it when I saw the theatrical presentation at our local Imax but in the 3D Blu-ray its really good, right in front of your face and easy to focus on.
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post #9 of 15 Old 04-15-2013, 12:39 PM
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The PS3 has an option whereby you can choose screen size. If you want more depth on your 60" tv, for example, set the screen size to something smaller. I believe there will come a point at which it really messes with your eyes, so you kinda have to play with the setting. Check your blu ray player and see if it has something similar. My Samsung BD6700 has it also.

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post #10 of 15 Old 04-15-2013, 02:55 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jj2446 View Post

Where the 3D image sits relative to the screen plane is called the convergence point. Sure, many setups allow to adjust this, but setting the convergence of each stereo shot is a decision made by the stereographers during the post-production process. And where a character, vehicle, building, etc sit relative to the screen plane affects it's scale in stereo. A Transformer coming out of screen looks smaller than if it's behind the screen. That's just one example, but the point is that the stereographer makes a creative decision on where to play the depth so changing this after the fact can go against the original filmmaker's intentions. But it's fun to do as a gag with certain types of content.
Is this you? Justin Jones? It's nice to have an industry expert around.

I think the OP is more concerned that the shot with the holographic computer screens popped out in the theater but doesn't pop out on his TV at home. To my knowledge, Blu-rays have slightly different convergence scripts than theatrical copies of the same movie in order to compensate for the smaller screens and closer seating distances people have at home. Shifting further into positive parallax helps increase the sense of depth and scale.

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post #11 of 15 Old 04-15-2013, 07:21 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cakefoo View Post

Is this you? Justin Jones? It's nice to have an industry expert around.

I think the OP is more concerned that the shot with the holographic computer screens popped out in the theater but doesn't pop out on his TV at home. To my knowledge, Blu-rays have slightly different convergence scripts than theatrical copies of the same movie in order to compensate for the smaller screens and closer seating distances people have at home. Shifting further into positive parallax helps increase the sense of depth and scale.

Yes. And I'm very familiar with the operation center in Avatar as I was on the VFX team for those sequences. I don't remember whether Cameron did a separate convergence pass for blu-ray but he typically sets convergence to follow the focus. Which is why the graphics pop out so much as the image is converged and focused on the operator or someone else deeper in the room. And you're correct in that the 3D effect is lessened in the home environment. It all has to do with the pixel offset between the eye images, screen size, and viewing distance. I have the math somewhere but basically the bigger you go, the wider the image separation creating more depth.

Depth should absolutely be set differently depending on the intended size screen but that rarely happens. It's usually designed for largest format (theatrical) and left as-is for the home release. You can change the convergence on a TV but as I said before, bringing the image out of screen makes things look smaller in stereo. Just sit closer wink.gif

Also be in the darkest possible environment so the frame disappears. Especially in a release that utilizes virtual floating/sinking windows (black bars in one eye).

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post #12 of 15 Old 04-23-2013, 10:56 AM
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When James Cameron spoke at Blu-Con a few years ago (around the time that the Panasonic exclusive 3D copy of Avatar came out), someone in the audience asked him whether he adjusted the 3D convergence for home viewing. He stated that he didn't, because he didn't believe that was necessary, and he felt that the same convergence worked well enough on all screen sizes.

This isn't to say that other Blu-rays don't adjust the convergence, but Cameron said that Avatar didn't.

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post #13 of 15 Old 04-23-2013, 05:23 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jj2446 View Post

...the point is that the stereographer makes a creative decision on where to play the depth so changing this after the fact can go against the original filmmaker's intentions.
Thank you. It bugs me that people feel they have to fiddle with the convergence setting on 3D movies to get what they want to see. I haven't even bothered finding where the options are on my TV for adjusting that.

You bring up another good point, too.. point of convergence on point of focus. The fact is, every 3D movie has some degree of pop-out, even the ones that people say have "zero" pop-out, because the negative parallax is only occurring on foreground objects that aren't what the viewer is looking at. That's why I personally tend to view such things as gimmicks, because they're referring specifically to the focal object jumping out at the viewer as opposed to just everyday negative parallax like we experience all the time (I'm focusing on my monitor as I'm typing right now, my convergence point, ergo the keyboard and Coke Zero are in negative space and thus "popping out" until I focus on them).

Personally I prefer only when it's done for a specific effect. The two examples that come to mind are the dogs chasing the heroes in Up, where the dog snaps at the camera and comes out of the frame, and the scene at the end of Men in Black 3 where Just-Boris throws one of his hand-darts at the camera. The convergence point is actually in the center of the dart, rather than behind it, I thought it was an interesting way of comping it.. the shot is clearly focused on the dart, but there's a definite pointy-thing-in-your-face thing going on. It's done for effect in that one shot, and not splattered all over the film, which I'm grateful for.

I had to figure all this stuff out when I started creating stereoscopic CG renders. smile.gif

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post #14 of 15 Old 04-23-2013, 10:28 PM
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You can shift the convergence into a positive value to give the illusion of a larger 3D screen.

And even if a film's convergence has been specifically tweaked for the Blu-ray, there's still a need for consumers to have custom convergence settings; for instance a 42-inch owner is more likely to want to shift positive for bigger scale, while a projector owner might want to leave it at default or push it a little negative.

My view on popout is that it's fine as long as it enhances the story, just like 3D in general.

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post #15 of 15 Old 04-24-2013, 06:28 PM
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From what I've read, DreamWorks used to shift convergence positive for Blu-ray 3D movies prior to Madagascar 3. This was done to compensate for the removal of floating windows. However, since M3, they have been leaving the windows and using the theatrical convergence.
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