3DTV gaming on PC....the good, the bad, the ugly. - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 63 Old 03-29-2013, 06:53 AM - Thread Starter
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Finally got a PC capable of playing games in 3D (using an nvidia card). A few thoughts....first, the good:

On a properly supported game, its simply the most amazing thing I've ever seen. 3D games on console are stuck at low resolution with poor frame rates. The difference between 30 and 60fps in 2D is huge, but 30 and 60 FPS in 3D is indescribable. Everything people hate about 3D is gone, the image is so super clear in motion, you just feel like you're there. I never want to play a game any other way, ever again. On an HDMI 1.4TV you're still limited to 720p if you want 60fps in 3D, but you barely notice the difference (especially with good AA). It's very impressive that they can do a decent job converting 2D games into true stereoscopy (not crap reprojection) purely at the driver level. Performance is similar to running the game in 1080p. Most games aren't perfect, but a little tweaking gets you 95% of the way there. I dig how you have full control not only over depth, but also convergence, so you can choose to have as much pop as you want.

The bad: Its still incredibly fiddly. Haven't played a game yet that worked out of the box without a little tweaking. It helps a great deal that it overlays some instructions on exactly what features to turn off, and what errors to expect, but still annoying that you can never seem to have it all. UIs are a particular problem - the game itself might have great depth, but the UI is stuck on the plane of the screen, and it can lead to some really odd looking stuff. And some games just don't work at all (bioshock infinite included frown.gif )

The ugly: Nvidia wants $40 (!!!) to enable you to output 3D to a TV. It's a completely artificial barrier. A 3D monitor is free, 3DTV....pay up. It's absolutely outrageous. I just spent $200 on a video card, and you seriously want me to pony up more to remove a completely artificial and arbitrary barrier? Wtf??

All said and done the experience is so amazing that its worth every cent and all the time spent tweaking. I can't believe it took me this long to step up to 3D on PC, it absolutely crushes the experience you get on console.

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post #2 of 63 Old 03-29-2013, 06:11 PM
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Check out Helix Mod's site:
http://helixmod.wikispot.org/

They have a lot of fixes for 3D Vision games. I know you're using 3DTV Play from nVidia but it should work the same. If you don't mind old drivers (early 300's and before I think) there's an 3D emitter emulator that'll unlock 3DTV Play for free. I had to buy the 3D Vision kit and use EDID overrides to get 1080p 3D @ 60hz so I was out $140 extra... Anyway the games rated 3D Vision Ready and Excellent shouldn't need fiddling with.

Here's some games that look great in 3D:

Batman Arkham Asylum
Batman Arkham City
Just Cause 2
Trine
Trine 2 (seriously the BEST 3D I've seen)
Sleeping Dogs
Dark Souls (needs Helix Mod)
Darksiders 2 (needs Helix Mod)
Borderlands 2 (needs Helix Mod)
Crysis 2 (supposedly this is reprojection but it still looks good IMO)
Skyrim
Tomb Raider (the new one, some things are off like the cross hairs...)

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post #3 of 63 Old 03-29-2013, 07:37 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bd2003 View Post

The ugly: Nvidia wants $40 (!!!) to enable you to output 3D to a TV. It's a completely artificial barrier. A 3D monitor is free, 3DTV....pay up. It's absolutely outrageous. I just spent $200 on a video card, and you seriously want me to pony up more to remove a completely artificial and arbitrary barrier? Wtf??
Wait, seriously? How would the system even know? I'm already fooling 3D Vision into sending out a passive signal, I just assumed it would work equally well going to my TV, since it's the exact same tech. But I'm not paying for the privilege if I ever decide to hook my PC up to the big-screen.. I expect it to treat it exactly the same way, like a really big monitor.

Incidentally, 3D Vision over passive can support 1080p @ 60fps, because it's only carrying a single 60fps stream instead of a 120fps equivalent for active. I played the entirety of Arkham Asylum like that. Bear in mind that, because of the way passive works, the game's rendering resolution must exactly match the resolution of the monitor. So for 3D games, I have no choice but to play 1080p. Woe is me. wink.gif

I can't quite get 60fps in Arkham City, though.

I can get about 45-50fps in Just Cause 2, but holeee crap. That is the only way to play this game. The sheer scale and depth of the environment is staggering, and the game works perfectly with 3D Vision right out of the box. And, it's only three bucks on Steam right now. GO GET IT. I really hope they pull off the same 3D implementation in the next game, because that one is incredible.

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post #4 of 63 Old 03-29-2013, 08:47 PM
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iZ3D had a very efficient passive system (Zalman optimized) that really stretched the ability of graphics cards. Sadly they are no longer in business, as I would have liked to see what they would have done with dx11.
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post #5 of 63 Old 03-30-2013, 01:47 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bd2003 View Post

The ugly: Nvidia wants $40 (!!!) to enable you to output 3D to a TV. It's a completely artificial barrier. A 3D monitor is free, 3DTV....pay up.

To play 3D Vision on a monitor you have to buy the 3D Vision kit, which includes glasses and an emitter, for $200. So even with a monitor, you have to pay for access to the 3D driver. It's an artificial barrier, yes, but these things are nothing new. It's basically Nvidia's one-time 3D premium surcharge. Might it make more sense for Nvidia to allow access for free and potentially sell more video cards? Yes, it might. But it's perfectly fair for them to try to make a little money off of 3D. Otherwise, why should they even offer us the technology?
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post #6 of 63 Old 03-30-2013, 07:34 AM
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Nvidia Vision on a computer monitor is not free.
You need to buy the Nvidia Vision emitter and glasses, the drivers are included.
Some monitors come with nvidia glasses and buitl-in nvidia emitter, but you are still payiing for it in the price of the monitor.

If you want the drivers for 3DTV Play only, and don't have Vision kit, you need to pay $40. Not so bad really.
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post #7 of 63 Old 03-30-2013, 07:38 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by obveron View Post

Nvidia Vision on a computer monitor is not free.
You need to buy the Nvidia Vision emitter and glasses, the drivers are included.
Some monitors come with nvidia glasses and buitl-in nvidia emitter, but you are still payiing for it in the price of the monitor.

If you want the drivers for 3DTV Play only, and don't have Vision kit, you need to pay $40. Not so bad really.

I guess a slap in the face isn't so bad when the alternative is a punch in the nuts. tongue.gif

For some reason I thought it was free, probably because I'd think they'd just want to have it as a selling point for their cards. It seems like AMD has basically given up on 3D, so Nvidia kind of has everyone who wants 3D by the balls. Sony and Microsoft didnt have the audacity to charge for it when they enabled it on their consoles. A paid and DRMed driver update....come on.

Anyway, enough griping about it, still playing skyrim with it....completely game changing. I hope the vocal minority of 3D haters don't ruin it for the rest of us, there's so much potential here.

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post #8 of 63 Old 03-30-2013, 11:41 AM
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I'm interested in getting 3D gaming going on my PC, but I'm not sure where to start. I have read plenty on the subject and still don't understand what exactly I need to buy. I have a Panasonic GT50 3D active TV, and a more than capable graphics card and HTPC set up. Do I need to buy additional 3D glasses or does it have something to do with the RF emitter? I know there's something incredibly simple I'm missing, but can't seem to figure it out.

Thanks. smile.gif
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post #9 of 63 Old 03-30-2013, 11:45 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by obveron View Post

Nvidia Vision on a computer monitor is not free.
You need to buy the Nvidia Vision emitter and glasses, the drivers are included.
Sorry, but that's BS. The 3D Vision drivers are included in the GeForce driver downloads, not alongside the hardware.

I don't own any 3D Vision hardware, nor any NVidia hardware of any kind beyond the GPU itself, I've never paid NVidia a penny, and I can play games in 3D Vision any time I want.

So yes... 3D Vision is free. At least it is for me. And they can go straight to hell if they think I'm paying them extra to play 3D PC games on my TV that I already paid a boatload of money for.

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post #10 of 63 Old 03-30-2013, 11:55 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JSpectre88 View Post

I'm interested in getting 3D gaming going on my PC, but I'm not sure where to start. I have read plenty on the subject and still don't understand what exactly I need to buy. I have a Panasonic GT50 3D active TV, and a more than capable graphics card and HTPC set up. Do I need to buy additional 3D glasses or does it have something to do with the RF emitter? I know there's something incredibly simple I'm missing, but can't seem to figure it out.

Thanks. smile.gif

First, you'll need glasses specific to your TV (or a universal pair).

Then you'll the 3DTV play software, available for $40 from nvidia (there's a 2 week free trial)....This enables you to output 3D directly to your TV over HDMI. This is assuming you have an nvidia card.....if you don't, trade in your AMD one and get nvidia, the 3d support from AMD is even worse than Nvidia's.

You'll need a keyboard/mouse handy nearby to deal with inevitable configuration that you can't do with a controller....one of those remote sized all in one devices are worth every penny.

And you'll need to make sure your receiver supports 3D (otherwise plug directly into the TV). And you'll need to be using high speed HDMI cables.

Should be pretty simple from there. In 3d mode HDMI can currently handle 720p/60hz or 1080p/24hz. You'll find that 720p/3D gives you a frame rate very similar to 1080p/2D, so it works out.

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post #11 of 63 Old 03-30-2013, 05:36 PM
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Quote:
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So yes... 3D Vision is free. At least it is for me. And they can go straight to hell if they think I'm paying them extra to play 3D PC games on my TV that I already paid a boatload of money for.

This sounds fishy.

What's wrong with Nvidia making a little extra money off of 3D? It surely wasn't free for them to develop the driver or to support it through driver updates. I'd rather it be free too, but I don't see what's unfair about it. Things cost money.
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post #12 of 63 Old 03-30-2013, 07:47 PM
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I can already play 3D on my PC. Why pay more to play it on a different monitor? I object to that practice by refusing to buy it. Simple as that. If you want to, knock yourself out.

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post #13 of 63 Old 03-30-2013, 08:03 PM
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You should explain how you're getting it to work for free. The only way I know of is using old drivers with the emitter emulator.

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post #14 of 63 Old 03-30-2013, 09:23 PM
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Passive monitor, so no emitter. 3D Vision isn't all active-shutter, you know.

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post #15 of 63 Old 03-31-2013, 12:44 PM
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I have Nvidea Vision and the 2 pair of Nvidea active glasses with their emitter and used originally when using my 92" Mitsubishi DPL. It was a pain to plug the emitter in my TV for games and unplug if I wanted to watch a 3D bluray movie. When Play came out I was forced to reduce the resolution to 720p but at least I could use my Mitsubishi glasses and emitter. Now I bought the new LG 84" 4K Ultra HD TV passive set. The Nvidea control panel now will not let me adjust the depth as it is preset at about 15% but I have the tv 3D set at maximum. But by setting the game and tv resolution at 1920x1080 I have the best 3D ever using passive glasses. Just Cause 2 (which I had not played for over a year) looks fantastic as well as Skyrim. Maybe this is due to upscaling to 4K before the drop due to passive.
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post #16 of 63 Old 04-05-2013, 10:05 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JSpectre88 View Post

I'm interested in getting 3D gaming going on my PC, but I'm not sure where to start. I have read plenty on the subject and still don't understand what exactly I need to buy. I have a Panasonic GT50 3D active TV, and a more than capable graphics card and HTPC set up. Do I need to buy additional 3D glasses or does it have something to do with the RF emitter? I know there's something incredibly simple I'm missing, but can't seem to figure it out.

Thanks. smile.gif
Try Mass Effect on it. Its really amazing. Metro 2033 is another favorite. Skyrim, the list goes on and on.... But Mass Effect has some really amazing scenery that drops the jaw when 3D lays it all out in front of you correctly on the 3rd axis. You just need 3DTV Play, which also has a trial. So does Tridef, another 3D software enabler. Both have their positives and negatives.

To adjust the 3D correctly, adjust the separation between the elements of a scene that are very far away to match your IPD (interpupilary distance) and then adjust convergence (enable in 3D hotkey settings) until things in front of you and beyond look correct.

Actually, if interested you can sample what Mass Effect looks like in 3D if you click the top link in my signature and watch the ME video i made.
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post #17 of 63 Old 04-06-2013, 09:49 AM
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I tried your video but it sais an error occured to try later.
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post #18 of 63 Old 04-06-2013, 10:04 AM
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post #19 of 63 Old 04-06-2013, 11:29 AM
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Except for the aiming reticle... 3D doesn't mean much if you can't hit anything. As impressive as the 3D is in the new Tomb Raider, for example, I won't use it until they fix the reticle. Helix might be able to do it at some point (probably already have for ME3).

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post #20 of 63 Old 04-06-2013, 02:23 PM
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I always turn the reticule off for immersion. Im now used to aiming between the doubled reticules. In games that don't use the sights of the weapon, like skyrim, its a little difficult to do that.
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post #21 of 63 Old 04-06-2013, 03:23 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
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I always turn the reticule off for immersion. Im now used to aiming between the doubled reticules. In games that don't use the sights of the weapon, like skyrim, its a little difficult to do that.

Hopefully other games pick up on what blops 2 did....when you sight in, the depth flattens....easy to aim, no double sights.

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post #22 of 63 Old 04-06-2013, 05:15 PM
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Makes sense, since you're technically aiming with only one eye at that point.

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post #23 of 63 Old 04-06-2013, 06:39 PM
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Helixmod won't be able to fix Tomb Raider. DX9 games are fixable but D11 ones are all on the developer from what I understand.

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post #24 of 63 Old 04-06-2013, 07:41 PM
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No Helix mod needed for Tomb Raider. The developer fixed the 3D reticule in a patch a few weeks ago.
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post #25 of 63 Old 04-07-2013, 02:27 PM
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Good to know, I'll have to give it another go. Right now I'm working through Bioshock: Infinite (which doesn't support 3D at all that I'm aware.. has some of the severe shading/lighting errors like Assassin's Creed III has). I actually don't play FPS in 3D, generally. Not the best fit for a passive monitor with limited viewing angles.

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post #26 of 63 Old 05-31-2013, 12:30 PM
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Hi i currently have a gforce 470 gtx, a acer 3d tv and nvidia stereo 3d vision glasses and emiter,i also have sony hmzt1.
Im trying to get hmzt 1 working in 3d stereo in my games through hdmi.
Ive seen on forums that you get 3dtv play software free as an upgrade if you have stereo 3d vision pack , where can i get the free upgrade as when i download the software it asks for trial or serial.
I have tried clicking trial but progrme closes and i cant seem to start the software do i have to have an older driver for my card to work with the trial.
also how do i get the upgrade free it isnt very clear on nvidia site.
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post #27 of 63 Old 06-01-2013, 10:45 AM
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All I know that you must have the emitter plugged in to your pc to enable tvplay. I can't remember how I downloaded tvplay.
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post #28 of 63 Old 10-12-2013, 11:54 PM
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So, do I need to use the Nvidia glasses even if my 3d TV came with its own glasses?
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post #29 of 63 Old 10-13-2013, 06:43 AM
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No. If you have a 3D TV, pay to activate 3D TV Play, then use your TV's glasses.
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post #30 of 63 Old 10-13-2013, 04:13 PM
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Or, just output directly from 3D Vision without having to pay anything. I don't even get the point of 3D TV Play.

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