Is 3D about dead? - Page 13 - AVS Forum
Forum Jump: 
 7Likes
Reply
 
Thread Tools
post #361 of 418 Old 06-07-2014, 11:37 AM
AVS Special Member
 
tgm1024's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Posts: 5,815
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 90 Post(s)
Liked: 550

^^^Bingo!


Well Vinnie97, one of the kindest and most helpful and respected members here, got one of these. I wonder how much longer before I get such a message...
You have been banned for the following reason: No reason was specified.
Date the ban will be lifted: Never
tgm1024 is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #362 of 418 Old 06-08-2014, 08:12 PM
Advanced Member
 
Apostate's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Posts: 850
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 62 Post(s)
Liked: 121
Quote:
Originally Posted by cakefoo View Post

Popout will NOT save 3D!!!

But it sure is fun every now and then. biggrin.gif
Apostate is offline  
post #363 of 418 Old 06-09-2014, 06:46 AM
Member
 
ekaaaans's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2014
Posts: 33
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Liked: 21
Quote:
GRAVITY and AVATAR and HUGO and LIFE OF PI were pretty successful films because they had engaging plots, ample stereo strength, creative cinematography and seamless 3D+story integration. NOT because of objects invading personal space.

Every one of those movies featured pop-out 3D. Clearly the easy and cheap ploys didn't ruin the experience for you.

 

Citing these movies only undermines your bashing of objects leaving the screen. I will agree with you that saving 3D requires actual effort, but that would include intelligent use of 3D's most striking feature. Eschewing it altogether...would be the opposite of intelligent.

ekaaaans is offline  
post #364 of 418 Old 06-09-2014, 06:50 AM
AVS Special Member
 
tgm1024's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Posts: 5,815
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 90 Post(s)
Liked: 550
Quote:
Originally Posted by ekaaaans View Post
 
Quote:
GRAVITY and AVATAR and HUGO and LIFE OF PI were pretty successful films because they had engaging plots, ample stereo strength, creative cinematography and seamless 3D+story integration. NOT because of objects invading personal space.

Every one of those movies featured pop-out 3D. Clearly the easy and cheap ploys didn't ruin the experience for you.

 

Citing these movies only undermines your bashing of objects leaving the screen. I will agree with you that saving 3D requires actual effort, but that would include intelligent use of 3D's most striking feature. Eschewing it altogether...would be the opposite of intelligent.

 

"Opposite of intelligent"?  Look at your post above.

 

In that post you quoted, he clearly said that they were successful for reasons other than having the objects pop out.  He didn't say that those movies had none of it.  He was talking about what made them successful, and it wasn't popout that did it.

 

New poster, please be more careful.


Well Vinnie97, one of the kindest and most helpful and respected members here, got one of these. I wonder how much longer before I get such a message...
You have been banned for the following reason: No reason was specified.
Date the ban will be lifted: Never
tgm1024 is offline  
post #365 of 418 Old 06-09-2014, 06:58 AM
Member
 
ekaaaans's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2014
Posts: 33
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Liked: 21
Quote:
Originally Posted by tgm1024 View Post
 

 

"Opposite of intelligent"?  Look at your post above.

 

In that post you quoted, he clearly said that they were successful for reasons other than having the objects pop out.  He didn't say that those movies had none of it.  He was talking about what made them successful, and it wasn't popout that did it.

 

New poster, please be more careful.


Where does my post state he said that those movies had no pop-out? I'm new to posting, but not reading.

 

And what does "opposite of intelligent" have to do with anything you said afterwards? If you don't think pop-out should be eschewed altogether, the comment has nothing to do with you.

ekaaaans is offline  
post #366 of 418 Old 06-09-2014, 07:12 AM
AVS Special Member
 
Jedi2016's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Posts: 1,410
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 6 Post(s)
Liked: 43
Those movies would have been successful regardless of whether they had any pop-out... that is NOT what made audiences "ooh" and "aah" over them. Is that what you believe?

Welcome to Rivendell, Mister Anderson.
Jedi2016 is offline  
post #367 of 418 Old 06-09-2014, 07:16 AM
Member
 
ekaaaans's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2014
Posts: 33
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Liked: 21
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jedi2016 View Post

Those movies would have been successful regardless of whether they had any pop-out... that is NOT what made audiences "ooh" and "aah" over them. Is that what you believe?


Nope. But conversely, the pop-out did nothing to diminish the enjoyment of someone very critical of pop-out. Which supports the position of people like myself who think ALL aspects of 3D should be used.

Apostate likes this.
ekaaaans is offline  
post #368 of 418 Old 06-09-2014, 07:56 AM
AVS Special Member
 
tgm1024's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Posts: 5,815
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 90 Post(s)
Liked: 550
Quote:
Originally Posted by ekaaaans View Post
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by tgm1024 View Post
 

 

"Opposite of intelligent"?  Look at your post above.

 

In that post you quoted, he clearly said that they were successful for reasons other than having the objects pop out.  He didn't say that those movies had none of it.  He was talking about what made them successful, and it wasn't popout that did it.

 

New poster, please be more careful.


Where does my post state he said that those movies had no pop-out? I'm new to posting, but not reading.

 

And what does "opposite of intelligent" have to do with anything you said afterwards? If you don't think pop-out should be eschewed altogether, the comment has nothing to do with you.

 

Here is what you said:

 

Quote:

Quote:Originally Posted by ekaaaans View Post
 

Quote:
GRAVITY and AVATAR and HUGO and LIFE OF PI were pretty successful films because they had engaging plots, ample stereo strength, creative cinematography and seamless 3D+story integration. NOT because of objects invading personal space.

Every one of those movies featured pop-out 3D. Clearly the easy and cheap ploys didn't ruin the experience for you.

 

Citing these movies only undermines your bashing of objects leaving the screen.

 

How does citing those movies undermine his bashing of objects leaving the screen?  His statement had to do with what made them good, not what bad parts they may have had.


Well Vinnie97, one of the kindest and most helpful and respected members here, got one of these. I wonder how much longer before I get such a message...
You have been banned for the following reason: No reason was specified.
Date the ban will be lifted: Never
tgm1024 is offline  
post #369 of 418 Old 06-09-2014, 07:59 AM
AVS Special Member
 
tgm1024's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Posts: 5,815
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 90 Post(s)
Liked: 550
Quote:
Originally Posted by ekaaaans View Post
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jedi2016 View Post

Those movies would have been successful regardless of whether they had any pop-out... that is NOT what made audiences "ooh" and "aah" over them. Is that what you believe?


Nope. But conversely, the pop-out did nothing to diminish the enjoyment of someone very critical of pop-out. Which supports the position of people like myself who think ALL aspects of 3D should be used.

 

Fair enough.  This conversation has been repeated many times.  There always seems to be nuances that are misunderstood.

 

That gray area in the middle gets muddied quickly.


Well Vinnie97, one of the kindest and most helpful and respected members here, got one of these. I wonder how much longer before I get such a message...
You have been banned for the following reason: No reason was specified.
Date the ban will be lifted: Never
tgm1024 is offline  
post #370 of 418 Old 06-09-2014, 09:06 AM
Member
 
ekaaaans's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2014
Posts: 33
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Liked: 21
Quote:
How does citing those movies undermine his bashing of objects leaving the screen?  His statement had to do with what made them good, not what bad parts they may have had.

GRAVITY, AVATAR, HUGO and LIFE OF PI are great 3D in spite of their "bad parts"? I'm not sure that's what he meant, but I personally don't see how locking the visuals completely behind the window would have improved things. It just seems to me a post calling pop-out a cheap ploy, would cite movies that didn't have ANY noteworthy examples of it.(CARS 2 for instance) But I completely agree that 3D requires equal parts effort and intelligence

ekaaaans is offline  
post #371 of 418 Old 06-09-2014, 10:02 AM
AVS Special Member
 
superleo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: San Antonio, TX - USA
Posts: 2,127
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 14 Post(s)
Liked: 207
Matter of perspective...

I love 3D, even bad 3D -- although I rather say - not as good 3D compared to the great 3D content that comes out once in a while.
I'll watch not so good 3D and await for "THE ONE" awesome 3D when it happens. No problem here.

"Everybody is a genius. But if you judge a fish by its ability to climb a tree, it will live its whole life believing that it is stupid."
Screening Room - The Dream House
RPCRT-TV Overscan Reduction
Reference Blu-Ray Demo Disc

Reference 2: Blu-Ray Demo Disc

The Best of the Demo Discs Demo Disc

superleo is online now  
post #372 of 418 Old 06-09-2014, 12:19 PM
AVS Special Member
 
cakefoo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Phoenix
Posts: 1,801
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 10 Post(s)
Liked: 31
Quote:
Originally Posted by ekaaaans View Post

Every one of those movies featured pop-out 3D. Clearly the easy and cheap ploys didn't ruin the experience for you.
The claim was that popout would save 3D, not avoid offending me:
Quote:
Originally Posted by cinema13 View Post

But there should be moments! 3D should be an experience...THAT'S what people would remember and keep the format going.

My Videos

A movie with good 3D does not necessarily equal a good 3D movie!

cakefoo is online now  
post #373 of 418 Old 06-09-2014, 12:23 PM
AVS Special Member
 
cakefoo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Phoenix
Posts: 1,801
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 10 Post(s)
Liked: 31
Quote:
Originally Posted by ekaaaans View Post

3D's most striking feature
It's definitely not 3D's most versatile feature, or it's strongest storytelling technique. There has to be a good reason for it, other than eye candy. Hugo used it well the couple times it had floating heads, but other than that, I can't think of any good popout that made me feel more connected with the story. It might not be necessary most of the time, that's why it's not being used more. Just because someone WANTS popout, because that's what THEY think of when they think of 3D, doesn't mean their wants are what Hollywood should be doing to grow their income. For that question I would point to the general consensus of the most successful 3D films, and those people are showing that they don't mind movies being popout moment-free, as long as the 3D is strong and the cinematography is great.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ekaaaans View Post

It just seems to me a post calling pop-out a cheap ploy, would cite movies that didn't have ANY noteworthy examples of it.(CARS 2 for instance) But I completely agree that 3D requires equal parts effort and intelligence
I'm just saying the most successful 3D films are not known for their popout. Less that 1% of their runtime is blatant popout. So no, they don't need popout to make money. Just good cinematography. That's the common characteristic of all the movies I just mentioned.

My Videos

A movie with good 3D does not necessarily equal a good 3D movie!

cakefoo is online now  
post #374 of 418 Old 06-09-2014, 01:02 PM
AVS Special Member
 
tgm1024's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Posts: 5,815
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 90 Post(s)
Liked: 550

^^^I have a bit of a theory about this.  When watching a TV I sometimes think we "zoom our focus inward" to the screen.  This allows us to watch a smaller screen and a larger screen and much later on have a tough time remembering which was which.  Our focus essentially brings the TV to our mind's eye (or our focus forward, take your pick).

 

When you have negative parallax show up, for a quick moment that "zoom in" of your focus is pushed backward to make room for the 7 feet of video objects now entangled in your living room hovering over the dog.  This pushes you out of the movie storyline because the TV is suddenly slammed back again and you've left the movie and are back on your couch.

 

It's not a complete theory.


Well Vinnie97, one of the kindest and most helpful and respected members here, got one of these. I wonder how much longer before I get such a message...
You have been banned for the following reason: No reason was specified.
Date the ban will be lifted: Never
tgm1024 is offline  
post #375 of 418 Old 06-09-2014, 10:44 PM
Member
 
ekaaaans's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2014
Posts: 33
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Liked: 21
Quote:
Originally Posted by cakefoo View Post


The claim was that popout would save 3D, not avoid offending me:

Thing is...if movies with very noteworthy instances of pop-out 3D are among your favorites, there's really no good reason for filmmakers to resist using it. Large segments of the paying audience are walking in with an expectation of seeing it, and...evidently...detractors will tolerate it. Pop-out may not "save 3D" but it sure as hell won't do any harm. Boring, conservative, or all-around shoddy 3D is the real threat IMO.  

 

 

For the record, pop-out 3D almost NEVER has the effect of taking me out of a story. It's just another visual effect, with varying degrees of effectiveness.

ekaaaans is offline  
post #376 of 418 Old 06-09-2014, 11:32 PM
AVS Special Member
 
cakefoo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Phoenix
Posts: 1,801
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 10 Post(s)
Liked: 31
Quote:
Originally Posted by ekaaaans View Post

Pop-out may not "save 3D" but it sure as hell won't do any harm. Boring, conservative, or all-around shoddy 3D is the real threat IMO.
Improving the quality of an average 3D film would save the format, but there are only a handful of filmmakers out there who are motivated enough to blaze that trail. The rest are content to rest on their laurels and let the postconversion teams polish their turds, because to them it's just about the production, they get paid either way. If only they had a cash incentive, like a bonus for hitting certain 3D revenue share milestones.

My Videos

A movie with good 3D does not necessarily equal a good 3D movie!

cakefoo is online now  
post #377 of 418 Old 06-10-2014, 05:22 AM
AVS Special Member
 
tgm1024's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Posts: 5,815
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 90 Post(s)
Liked: 550
Quote:
Originally Posted by ekaaaans View Post

Pop-out may not "save 3D" but it sure as hell won't do any harm.
 
It sure "as hell" can.  Positive parallax done poorly is bad enough, but negative parallax done poorly is a killer to the movie.
 

Anyway, this discussion goes on and on and has been mooted: Thankfully there has been a strong weeding out of schlock-3D films of the heavy positive parallax kind and the latest crop of directors seem to know what they're doing.


Well Vinnie97, one of the kindest and most helpful and respected members here, got one of these. I wonder how much longer before I get such a message...
You have been banned for the following reason: No reason was specified.
Date the ban will be lifted: Never
tgm1024 is offline  
post #378 of 418 Old 06-10-2014, 05:38 AM
AVS Club Gold
 
Don Landis's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 1999
Location: Jacksonville, FL
Posts: 10,748
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 31 Post(s)
Liked: 104
Cakefoo- While that certainly sounds like a good idea to raise 3D revenues, you would probably see more directors gaming the system and giving the majority what they want in 3D, the gimmick slap in the face thrill of something different. 3D pop out to the extreme. smile.gif

You are too young to have been through this era of when stereo first hit the market from monaural sound in movies and records. What we experienced was a few years where the popular selling gimmick was to put in the gratuitous ping pong or table tennis and other hard left and right hole in the middle sound stages. Eventually, that popularity of the majority went away but it seemed producers of anything stereo had to show their audience the Left right left sound gimmicks. In those days even pianos were recorded with all the low notes on the left and highs on the right. It was rare that sounds came out of both left and right speakers because that detracted from "real stereo." There were those experiments that never caught on such as Hafler 3 Channel stereo but at the end of the day, we as a society just needed to evolve beyond the ping pong gimmicks for stereo just as we will evolve beyond the gratuitous slap in the face pop out.
Don Landis is online now  
post #379 of 418 Old 06-10-2014, 06:48 AM
Member
 
ekaaaans's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2014
Posts: 33
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Liked: 21
Quote:
It sure "as hell" can.

I'll take the dreaded quote punctuation to mean I've once again annoyed you.  I'm reasonably confident in my opinion on this subject, but I assure you my tone isn't meant to be confrontational tgm.

 

Quote:
Positive parallax done poorly is bad enough, but negative parallax done poorly is a killer to the movie.

Anything done poorly will negatively impact the final product. If I advocate using a particular visual tool, consider my hope that it be used intelligently a given.

ekaaaans is offline  
post #380 of 418 Old 06-10-2014, 07:04 AM
AVS Special Member
 
tgm1024's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Posts: 5,815
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 90 Post(s)
Liked: 550
Quote:
Originally Posted by ekaaaans View Post
 
Quote:
It sure "as hell" can.

I'll take the dreaded quote punctuation to mean I've once again annoyed you.  I'm reasonably confident in my opinion on this subject, but I assure you my tone isn't meant to be confrontational tgm.

 

No worries....didn't take it as offensive though I see why it looked like I was reacting that way.  I threw the punctuation in as an afterthought because I was just reusing the your emphasis and it seemed like the way to do it.


Well Vinnie97, one of the kindest and most helpful and respected members here, got one of these. I wonder how much longer before I get such a message...
You have been banned for the following reason: No reason was specified.
Date the ban will be lifted: Never
tgm1024 is offline  
post #381 of 418 Old 06-10-2014, 07:07 AM
Member
 
ekaaaans's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2014
Posts: 33
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Liked: 21
Quote:
You are too young to have been through this era of when stereo first hit the market from monaural sound in movies and records. What we experienced was a few years where the popular selling gimmick was to put in the gratuitous ping pong or table tennis and other hard left and right hole in the middle sound stages. Eventually, that popularity of the majority went away but it seemed producers of anything stereo had to show their audience the Left right left sound gimmicks. In those days even pianos were recorded with all the low notes on the left and highs on the right. It was rare that sounds came out of both left and right speakers because that detracted from "real stereo." There were those experiments that never caught on such as Hafler 3 Channel stereo but at the end of the day, we as a society just needed to evolve beyond the ping pong gimmicks for stereo just as we will evolve beyond the gratuitous slap in the face pop out.

I have a Jimi Hendrix CD where certain tracks will lose the vocals completely if one speaker goes down. So I know what you're talking about. In today's movies though, we hear highly directional sound on levels well beyond old school stereo. In GRAVITY I can literally hear George Clooney's voice moving from left to right behind my head in synch with the floating camera. The analogy I would draw is arguing that such audio trickery was cheesy nonsense that evolved audiences should disdain.

ekaaaans is offline  
post #382 of 418 Old 06-10-2014, 07:39 AM
AVS Club Gold
 
aaronwt's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: Northern VA(Woodbridge)
Posts: 20,707
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 202 Post(s)
Liked: 578
Quote:
Originally Posted by Don Landis View Post

Cakefoo- While that certainly sounds like a good idea to raise 3D revenues, you would probably see more directors gaming the system and giving the majority what they want in 3D, the gimmick slap in the face thrill of something different. 3D pop out to the extreme. smile.gif

You are too young to have been through this era of when stereo first hit the market from monaural sound in movies and records. What we experienced was a few years where the popular selling gimmick was to put in the gratuitous ping pong or table tennis and other hard left and right hole in the middle sound stages. Eventually, that popularity of the majority went away but it seemed producers of anything stereo had to show their audience the Left right left sound gimmicks. In those days even pianos were recorded with all the low notes on the left and highs on the right. It was rare that sounds came out of both left and right speakers because that detracted from "real stereo." There were those experiments that never caught on such as Hafler 3 Channel stereo but at the end of the day, we as a society just needed to evolve beyond the ping pong gimmicks for stereo just as we will evolve beyond the gratuitous slap in the face pop out.

But will 3D be around long enough to evolve?

39TB unRAID1--53TB unRAID2--36TB unRAID3
LED DLP
XBL/PSN: WormholeXtreme

aaronwt is online now  
post #383 of 418 Old 06-10-2014, 12:26 PM
AVS Special Member
 
Jedi2016's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Posts: 1,410
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 6 Post(s)
Liked: 43
Quote:
Originally Posted by ekaaaans View Post

In GRAVITY I can literally hear George Clooney's voice moving from left to right behind my head in synch with the floating camera.
Yeah, but that's done for a specific effect in a specific shot. He's talking about the entire movie being like that. And the vast majority of dialogue in the vast majority of movies these days comes from center channel, with only some minor bleedover into the front L/R channels. About the only time we get dialogue with zero center channel is when the actor isn't even in frame. Then it makes sense to push it off to the sides or the rear.

Welcome to Rivendell, Mister Anderson.
Jedi2016 is offline  
post #384 of 418 Old 06-10-2014, 02:43 PM
Advanced Member
 
Ricoflashback's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Posts: 932
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 14 Post(s)
Liked: 69
Quote:
Originally Posted by Don Landis View Post

Cakefoo- While that certainly sounds like a good idea to raise 3D revenues, you would probably see more directors gaming the system and giving the majority what they want in 3D, the gimmick slap in the face thrill of something different. 3D pop out to the extreme. smile.gif

You are too young to have been through this era of when stereo first hit the market from monaural sound in movies and records. What we experienced was a few years where the popular selling gimmick was to put in the gratuitous ping pong or table tennis and other hard left and right hole in the middle sound stages. Eventually, that popularity of the majority went away but it seemed producers of anything stereo had to show their audience the Left right left sound gimmicks. In those days even pianos were recorded with all the low notes on the left and highs on the right. It was rare that sounds came out of both left and right speakers because that detracted from "real stereo." There were those experiments that never caught on such as Hafler 3 Channel stereo but at the end of the day, we as a society just needed to evolve beyond the ping pong gimmicks for stereo just as we will evolve beyond the gratuitous slap in the face pop out.

Gee, how about "Quadrophonic?" Now there's a surround sound technology that never took off (but morphed into 5.1+) I believe "The Who" meant to record/release "Quadrophenia" in Quad but the mixer they had was horrible. I remember in the movie when Townsend said the mix sounded terrible.

As far as gimmicks go, I enjoyed Led Zeppelin's "Whole Lotta Love" with the sound ping ponging back and forth back in the day. Then again, it was hard to see the speakers from all the smoke in the room.... smile.gif

I enjoy 3D movies and I'm not ashamed to say that I enjoy the "pop-outs." I rent Bluray movies that entertain me and while most of them are 2D, I'm always on the lookout for an interesting 3D flick.

It would be great to have a "pop-out," 3D reference disc. Maybe a solid two hours of "in your face," slap happy scenes. That way you could always play it when you felt the 3D's you were watching didn't have enough pop outs.

I know there is an artistic side to this story, but I think that studios and manufacturers will also go for what is commercially successful. Cinemascope was launched in the 50's to keep people from being glued to their new TV sets. Back then, a 21" set was huge. I believe 3D's intent was to perk up big screen TV sales and drive an incremental revenue source.

I will still buy 3D movies and I hope the technology gets better and Samsung, Sony & Vizio still make 3D sets. If they could make it easier to view (active or passive) - - that would be a huge plus. The active glasses are a pain - - especially if you wear glasses to begin with. I'd love to find a place that makes active, prescription 3D glasses. I'd pay for those just to enjoy my current 3D movie collection.

My main point is that evolving also has a very close connection to what the market wants, i.e., what will sell. Gimmicks can work but only temporarily. At the end of the day, you have to be wowed or at least entertained - - motivated enough to buy.

Home Theater Setup
Samsung UN65ES8000 LCD/LED
BenQ W1080ST Projector
Pioneer SC65 (Pre-Amp)
Wyred4Sound MMC-7 Channel Amplifier, 221wpc
OPPO 103, Directv GENIE
Darbee Darblet
ALL Paradigm - 7.1 - Studio 60's, V.2 (FL/FR)
CC-690, V.5 (C)
ADP 590 V.5 (SS)
MilleniaOne 2.0 (BS) - Velodyne 810 Sub
Ricoflashback is online now  
post #385 of 418 Old 06-10-2014, 02:57 PM
AVS Special Member
 
cakefoo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Phoenix
Posts: 1,801
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 10 Post(s)
Liked: 31
Quote:
Originally Posted by Don Landis View Post

Cakefoo- While that certainly sounds like a good idea to raise 3D revenues, you would probably see more directors gaming the system and giving the majority what they want in 3D, the gimmick slap in the face thrill of something different. 3D pop out to the extreme. smile.gif
I doubt that Don. Directors only need to look to Gravity and Avatar, perfect examples of how to make money making 3D films, and they didn't have extreme popout. To save 3D more directors just need to carefully follow in the footsteps of Cameron, Scorsese, Cuaron, Lurhmann, and Ang Lee. These guys made traditional films where the 3D set the proper tone in every scenario, enhacing the spectacle, action, drama, adventure, and emotion. Notice these are some of the basic tentpoles in films dating back a hundred years, and this is what most people are used to cinema being, and that's why 3D is going to find the most success being a harmonious complement rather than being too present or not present enough. The problem with a lot of action movies is that they pile all the money into the action scenes, but the dialog scenes are undercooked. If Hollywood would just try harder for the ENTIRE movie, things would be gravy on the blockbuster action film front.

But Hollywood also needs to get away from the dangerous mindset that 3D is only suitable for action scenes in action movies. There needs to be more than just action movies in 3D. Adventure is sort of a progression away from action towards something more spectacle-oriented without relying on violence and shiny vehicles and buff superheroes. Hugo and Great Gatsby were great in 3D in my opinion, and I'd love to see The Prodigious TS Spivet if it ever comes to the US, and I'm looking forward to Ang Lee's boxing movie, which I'm sure will have a lot of engaging dialog scenes and immersive fight scenes.

3D provides a sense of presence and immersion, and these qualities can enhance ANY genre if the cinematography is done properly.

My Videos

A movie with good 3D does not necessarily equal a good 3D movie!

cakefoo is online now  
post #386 of 418 Old 06-10-2014, 03:15 PM
Advanced Member
 
Steve Tack's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2001
Location: Arvada, CO
Posts: 507
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 22
I sometimes wish that 3D movies didn't exist. I don't have an inherent problem with 3D and even enjoy it sometimes at the theater and at home, but there are some significant challenges.

When you want to go out to a movie and some of your party is anti-3D, you end up limiting your choices. In some cases you don't get to see the movie on the biggest screen in your theater that you used to like watching movies on. I don't have a strong preference one way or another, and I have to admit that I've rarely had the thought after watching the 2D version: "gee, I really feel like I missed out on something." There are a few "event" movies that I will be sure to see in 3D, however, Gravity being the latest.

The biggest issue though, is the lack of a consistent experience. I'm sure that's due to a huge number of variables, like how the movie was shot, what kind of hardware is used, how that hardware is set up, and a whole host of physical and psychological issues that differ by person. I find that the 3D in most content does not yield a very natural result (to me), is inconsistent in perceived depth, and sometimes is just way too dark. A big exception to that one is Hugo, which was just amazing from start to finish. So consistent.

Home hardware is all over the place. I have a JVC RS45 projector which has OK 3D capabilities, but does suffer from ghosting on certain high contrast content. It's fun to watch 3D movies sometimes (Madagascar 3 was fun!). Yet when both options are available on Blu-ray, I often get more enjoyment out of the more "relaxing", non-flickering, brighter, no-ghosting, no-eye strain, no-glasses 2D version.

I don't think 3D is near dead or anything, but I don't think it's ever going to really explode until the average quality of the experience goes way up.

Ideally there'd be some kind of quality rating applied to projection equipment, a specific theater's setup, and the content itself, but I have no idea how that'd work.
Steve Tack is offline  
post #387 of 418 Old 06-10-2014, 03:49 PM
AVS Special Member
 
mo949's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2012
Posts: 2,646
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 302
Looks like huge market in China for 3D. They've post converted Robocop and Noah and it seems to be doing more than well there.

http://celluloidjunkie.com/2014/03/12/robocops-3d-success-china-spells-trouble-imax/

They also are a big TV component supplier to the West
superleo likes this.
mo949 is offline  
post #388 of 418 Old 06-10-2014, 05:34 PM
AVS Special Member
 
andy sullivan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: sun city west AZ
Posts: 3,047
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 36 Post(s)
Liked: 131
Who decides if a movie will be shot in 3D? The director or the studio? I would think that if the studio wants 3D they would choose a director experienced in 3D and actually likes 3D.
andy sullivan is online now  
post #389 of 418 Old 06-10-2014, 05:50 PM
AVS Club Gold
 
aaronwt's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: Northern VA(Woodbridge)
Posts: 20,707
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 202 Post(s)
Liked: 578
Quote:
Originally Posted by andy sullivan View Post

Who decides if a movie will be shot in 3D? The director or the studio? I would think that if the studio wants 3D they would choose a director experienced in 3D and actually likes 3D.

Aren't most movies converted from 2D to 3D instead of being shot in 3D.

39TB unRAID1--53TB unRAID2--36TB unRAID3
LED DLP
XBL/PSN: WormholeXtreme

aaronwt is online now  
post #390 of 418 Old 06-10-2014, 06:29 PM
Member
 
ekaaaans's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2014
Posts: 33
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Liked: 21
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jedi2016 View Post


Yeah, but that's done for a specific effect in a specific shot. He's talking about the entire movie being like that. And the vast majority of dialogue in the vast majority of movies these days comes from center channel, with only some minor bleedover into the front L/R channels. About the only time we get dialogue with zero center channel is when the actor isn't even in frame. Then it makes sense to push it off to the sides or the rear.

My point had to do with the accepted use of directional sound, not voices in particular. The stereo sound analogy he was making happens to juxtapose nicely with the question of how available technology should be used in today's movies.

ekaaaans is offline  
Reply 3D Content

User Tag List

Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page


Forum Jump: 

Posting Rules  
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off