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post #511 of 532 Old 08-30-2014, 05:05 PM
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Originally Posted by cinema13 View Post
Very laudable sentiments...I do wish we lived in a world like that. Unfortunately, the soul of Disney passed back in the 1960s. And regrettably, it is now run by greed merchants for whom great profits are just not enough.

And to add to your comment about residences, it also not possible for everyone to spend hundreds on another BD player just to play 2 or 3 discs. Disney may have deep pockets, but most consumers do not.
1. Talk to Don here about this & that. ...See what he has to say...he has a valid theory, his own reality.

2. True, some people (kids) have nothing, not even a roof, and no water.
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post #512 of 532 Old 08-30-2014, 05:09 PM
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Originally Posted by wuther View Post
I gotta wonder if you are joking. Ratatouille had the most disappointing BO take of all the pixar movie which is probably why disney is in little hurry to release it.
Too bad because in my opinion 'Ratatouille' is the best PIXAR film animation of all times.
...Right up there with 'Up' and 'The Incredibles'.

I don't care about money; I care about real value, the one in our soul.
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post #513 of 532 Old 08-30-2014, 05:24 PM
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Originally Posted by NorthSky View Post
1. Talk to Don here about this & that. ...See what he has to say...he has a valid theory, his own reality.

Indeed. I've read them and I understand his POV. But keeping product out of the consumers' hands will not increase their stock. Actually, if FROZEN had been released and became the biggest-selling 3D title to date, it might even have caused the stock to rise a point! But his take on the Disney actions only illustrates the greed aspect. Disney thinks that by withholding product that could be profitable, only to (MAYBE) release it later when demand has eased or been minimized by using other options is a the way to "maximize profits". So...if a 3D FROZEN appears later, sales will be lighter than it would have been otherwise. The Disney marketing "geniuses" will then say "Well, we did eventually release it but sales were weak" and use it as an excuse to continue withholding 3D. (As they probably felt with OZ, when it was their own botched release that did it.) Probably wouldn't even enter their dim minds that many people have obtained it already...one way or the other. And if they do know, they won't pay it no mind anyway.

Disney has some of the worst marketing ever. Remember the great job they did with JOHN CARTER. Sheesh, you'd think they'd at least have put something like "From Edgar Rice Burroughs--Creator of Tarzan" in the advertising. Or even mention Mars! As if they thought EVERYONE would know the name John Carter.) Disney successes primarily come from the brand name and NOT from their incompetent marketing personnel. They couldn't market cheese to a mouse. So they play games instead to justify their undeserved positions.


True, some people (kids) have nothing, not even a roof, and no water.
Yep. Even the least well-off of us are luckier than others
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Last edited by cinema13; 08-30-2014 at 05:52 PM.
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post #514 of 532 Old 08-30-2014, 05:36 PM
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Cinema, I totally agree with your line of thinking and sharing.
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post #515 of 532 Old 08-30-2014, 06:19 PM
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The problem with Don Landis' position is that he believes we, the consumers, should cater to Disney's business strategy, which I find absolutely baffling. The entertainment industry makes its money by catering to the consumers, not the other way around. If Don believes that Disney's strategy is correct... well, I hope Don gets out of his position in time because Disney's stance will eventually come around and bite them in their ass sooner or later.

I completely agree that Disney's long term strategy is to get out of physical media business all together. I believe what Disney is doing is shaping consumers' expectations and buying habits. Disney is actively trying to steer consumers' to online streaming which means fatter profit margin and more control for them. As others have said it's all about greed. As consumers, the only and most powerful weapon we have is our wallet. For 3D programs, I will only buy blu rays. If Disney refuses to provide for my need then they simply won't get my money.

For casual viewing, I love the convenience of streaming but for ownership, I want physical media. To me, physical media such as blu ray gives me better A/V quality and control. The problem with owning movies in the cloud is that there is no guarantee that what you paid for is what you end up with; the ultimate control is with whichever company that holds the movies for you. The company can take away your movies' features to fit their situation. Even worse, you can end up losing your movies. You are held hostage to the company's vagaries and you have no recourse. With the movies in the cloud, the fact that the movies you paid for and own are not really your own bothers the heck out of me. It's downright un-American.
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post #516 of 532 Old 08-30-2014, 06:38 PM
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Originally Posted by Don Landis View Post
... I finally hauled all my DVHS videos to the trash...
Can DVHS videos be recycled? It'd be a shame if you couldn't and had no choice but to throw them away. There is so much stuff that can be recycled, reused, or reclaimed for parts/materials that gets thrown away because we have no option or don't know what to do with them. I have obsolete electronic and computer gears sitting in my garage. It drives my wife crazy but I don't feel right throwing them away, filling up landfills and causing pollution. We need a better, more comprehensive and clearer recycling program in this country.
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post #517 of 532 Old 08-30-2014, 06:44 PM
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Originally Posted by jmschirmer View Post
There is a development in the pipeline by DDD S.A. de C.V. to develop a holographic 3D video system which does not require glasses nor creates headaches. The Star Wars scene with the princess being displayed into the space of the other actors is an example of holographic 3D. DDD has created a transform to carry as many as 100 views simultaneously which this requires.
A prototype is being built and tested without funding from any of the big consumer electronics or content providers to keep the technology neutral.
Is this the one that uses lasers? Isn't there some issues with lasers that are used being too powerful and can possibly injure people?
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post #518 of 532 Old 08-30-2014, 06:52 PM
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Originally Posted by Don Landis View Post
Actually, for the moment, Netflix is trying hard to be like a HBO. But, I think you are onto something, they most certainly would like to try to have first run content as high priced PPV say right after the theatrical premiere week. They could never, based on other PPV businesses, replace the core bread and butter business and become a PPV only. No reason you should fret if Netflix offers this.
What I fret is Netflix favoring its PPV business (if that becomes reality), dedicating more resources, i.e., bandwidth, over its core bread and butter business. Netflix streaming can get pretty bad on some days as it is.

What I fret is Netflix spending money building out its new business, spending money it can use to get better and more programming for its core bread and butter business.

What I fret is Netflix raising its price, citing infrastructure or whatever cost as the reason, while cutting back the programming (like 3D) for its core bread and butter business.
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post #519 of 532 Old 08-30-2014, 07:05 PM
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Originally Posted by cinema13 View Post
You'd need to buy a Region-Free player in order to view the region-locked Disney discs. (Which will not work on standard U.S. BD players)
Ok thanks, that clears it up for me. I've never even considered buying a region-free player, but I can see there are pros and cons. Not really worth it for me personally to shell-out the bucks for one because if I can't get the USA version of a 3D BD, then I just go on to some other title. Most likely, the film will get released here sooner or later. We're just too big of a market to totally ignore.

As for Disney...I live pretty close to Mickey Land, and know how this entertainment corporation can gouge its customers. I've seen this progression go on for the past 25 years, and it's been a bit sad to witness. All that being said, Disney runs the best theme parks bar none. It's just very expensive, and you do have this feeling that you're over-paying for everything from the price of attendance to anything you eat & drink while at their parks.

For decent Mickey movies, Pixar or not, if Disney offers the 3D BD, then I'll probably rent it. If not, I'll shed a few crocodile tears and move on to better things. Fortunately, there are just too many great titles out there (past, present & future) for me to even worry about it.
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post #520 of 532 Old 08-30-2014, 07:10 PM
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Originally Posted by jmschirmer View Post
There is a development in the pipeline by DDD S.A. de C.V. to develop a holographic 3D video system which does not require glasses nor creates headaches. The Star Wars scene with the princess being displayed into the space of the other actors is an example of holographic 3D. DDD has created a transform to carry as many as 100 views simultaneously which this requires.
A prototype is being built and tested without funding from any of the big consumer electronics or content providers to keep the technology neutral.
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Is this the one that uses lasers? Isn't there some issues with lasers that are used being too powerful and can possibly injure people?
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post #521 of 532 Old 08-30-2014, 09:19 PM
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That is just too cool. I can't believe technology stuff you only saw in sci-fi movies is becoming everyday reality. Maybe I'll see a flying car in my lifetime after all.
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post #522 of 532 Old 08-30-2014, 10:51 PM
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The problem with Don Landis' position is that he believes we, the consumers, should cater to Disney's business strategy, which I find absolutely baffling. The entertainment industry makes its money by catering to the consumers, not the other way around. If Don believes that Disney's strategy is correct... well, I hope Don gets out of his position in time because Disney's stance will eventually come around and bite them in their ass sooner or later.

I completely agree that Disney's long term strategy is to get out of physical media business all together. I believe what Disney is doing is shaping consumers' expectations and buying habits. Disney is actively trying to steer consumers' to online streaming which means fatter profit margin and more control for them. As others have said it's all about greed. As consumers, the only and most powerful weapon we have is our wallet. For 3D programs, I will only buy blu rays. If Disney refuses to provide for my need then they simply won't get my money.

For casual viewing, I love the convenience of streaming but for ownership, I want physical media. To me, physical media such as blu ray gives me better A/V quality and control. The problem with owning movies in the cloud is that there is no guarantee that what you paid for is what you end up with; the ultimate control is with whichever company that holds the movies for you. The company can take away your movies' features to fit their situation. Even worse, you can end up losing your movies. You are held hostage to the company's vagaries and you have no recourse. With the movies in the cloud, the fact that the movies you paid for and own are not really your own bothers the heck out of me. It's downright un-American.

1. Not my position entirely. My position is you don't have to accept the business motive, but you should understand it. Disney, like most SUCCESSFUL public businesses work for the benefit of it's owners, not for an altruistic benefit of the world's population. Those who understand my position understand that I do not have the same rules as a user of products as I do as an investor. As I user, I want to have the products I want and I want them at the lowest price and most convenient way. As an investor, I want the company to make products that the people will buy and generate the company the most profit. I may love Disney products forever, but as an investor, when they cease to make profits and grow fast enough, I will indeed sell, take my money and move on to the next successful business. Trust me, I learned the hard way, not to ride a company all the way up and right back down, losing it all. Today, I'm always taking a little off the table and spending it ( a little to the tax man too) so when the day comes, I can even sell a little at a loss and still know I had a fun ride along the way. The entertainment industry makes it's money and is a success by UNDERSTANDING the consumer spending habits, not by giving him everything he wants when he wants, where he wants it, it for a price he wants to pay.

2. By present trends, media companies see where we are heading in the distribution business, hard media distribution day's are numbered. There is a better way. The trick is timing the transition. I agree with you that you have a choice not to buy what Disney is selling, at least until you change your mind. Disney, on the other hand is they remain true to a successful business strategy ( you call greed) will adjust it's business along the way that works to maximize profits. Michael Eisner said, " We will raise our gate price for the parks 10% per year until the business falls off 10%". It was an oversimplification of a successful business model.

3. There will come a day when streaming meets your high standards. Fact is streaming has no permanent upside for delivery quality. The limit we have today is just temporary. I agree with you that Owning a COPY of a moviein the cloud is with greater risk of loss of control than the hard media but both are subject to loss unexpectedly. The best defense against this is redundancy. That's why I have two copies of Frozen 3D. One on Blu Ray for permanency subject to physical damage and a playback hardware failure. And on the cloud, because it was available immediately, and is quicker access from many locations. Un-American???? What is that? Maybe by your definition, but the only thing I find truly "American" is our constitutionally guaranteed freedoms that supposedly guarantees our freedom and even there many "Americans" work hard every day to take those freedoms away. There is no constitutional guarantee that you can have everything you want, when you want it, and where you want it at the expense of others including businesses. You are guaranteed the freedom to choose not to do business with them, that is all. And even in some areas of commerce those rights have been taken away by our "American" government. Nobody is holding you hostage, except yourself and your own limitations you place on yourself.
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Can DVHS videos be recycled?
Maybe but here, unless the item has a recycle logo imprinted on it, our state recycling laws won't allow it. I tried once putting a carton of VHS blank tape out as it has no resale value and the recycle pickup people refused to take it because it doesn't have the authorization symbol. Sony has their internal recycling program where they grind up surplus CD and DVD stock and make cases for new products from that. The HDR TD30 3D camcorder and my new Region free modified 3D BD player is made from recycled CD's.
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What I fret is Netflix,,,
As I said, don't worry about them only doing PPV That business model needs to change drastically to make it popular enough for Netflix to jump in 100% unless Reed goes on a suicide mission.

Netflix is spending money currently on increasing it's subscribers numbers world wide. Secondly, it is spending on doing original programming to augment licensed content. Both of these have been shown to work for the success of the business.

Netflix could triple it's subscription price and still be the best deal on the block. As an investor I would favor that as it would fatten the bank and put the company in a price to earnings multiple similar to Apple and Microsoft. BUT, the mainstream media would berate them and users would cut off their nose to spite there face and the plan would flop. Consumers trip over dollars to pick up pennies all the time. Netflix already made the mistakes of raising prices to match their nearest competitor before and won't do that again. They will remain a fantastic deal, way under the competition. Kind of like Red Box does.

Last edited by Don Landis; 08-30-2014 at 11:20 PM.
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post #523 of 532 Old 08-30-2014, 11:19 PM
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I am glad that whatever works for you, works for you, Don. You are already aware of the conflict of interest inherent in your POV so I won't get into that. Just know that your POV is not the only POV nor is it necessarily the correct POV.

As to your other ramblings, I can tell you of companies which the profit or "greed" is not the only nor primary motivation. I can tell you what Michael Eisner is saying is of the most basic economic concept of supply and demand. I can tell you what American means as our Founding Fathers intended. But then I would be rambling.

You do your thing and enjoy. We'd do our thing and enjoy as well. Live and let live. Now that's American.
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post #524 of 532 Old 08-30-2014, 11:35 PM
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We'd do our thing and enjoy as well.
Just remember, I'm not the one complaining, and not the one feeling being ripped off by businesses. I don't enjoy feeling being ripped off. I'm having fun. Some people do enjoy being miserable and not happy unless they are complaining about everything.
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post #525 of 532 Old 08-30-2014, 11:36 PM
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That is just too cool. I can't believe technology stuff you only saw in sci-fi movies is becoming everyday reality. Maybe I'll see a flying car in my lifetime after all.
This has been around for the last four years and more; there are a bunch of holographic music concert shows here in California, Japan, overseas, ... and many of them on youtube. ...Just google around.
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post #526 of 532 Old 08-30-2014, 11:37 PM
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Just remember, I'm not the one complaining, and not the one feeling being ripped off by businesses. I don't enjoy feeling being ripped off. I'm having fun. Some people do enjoy being miserable and not happy unless they are complaining about everything.
With Disney, I am even worse than being miserable. I am completely apathetic. I do not care anymore. You are right though... some people do enjoy being miserable. Schadenfreude!
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post #527 of 532 Old 08-30-2014, 11:42 PM
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This has been around for the last four years and more; there are a bunch of holographic music concert shows here in California, Japan, overseas, ... and many of them on youtube. ...Just google around.
Four years, what? Dang, I am getting old. I don't know what the young whipper-snappers are doing anymore.
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post #528 of 532 Old 08-30-2014, 11:50 PM
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Originally Posted by Don Landis View Post
Consumers trip over dollars to pick up pennies all the time. Netflix already made the mistakes of raising prices to match their nearest competitor before and won't do that again. They will remain a fantastic deal, way under the competition. Kind of like Red Box does.
Ha! That's true. People don't blink twice about paying $5 coffee a day and get outraged at $1 or 2 per month increase in their Netflix charge. I don't know about three times but I do agree that even at twice the current rate, Netflix would still be one heckuva deal.
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post #529 of 532 Old 08-31-2014, 12:08 AM
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Don, I know what you're saying, and I just don't follow that philosophy.
All my life I was an investor, in many technologies, and for the best of humanity. I am no longer a money investor.
I've seen enough deceptions to make me sick that I can die over and over @ perpetuity and it won't heal anything @ all.

I simply don't believe in beneficial investments. @ the end it's always about dirty money, since the very beginning when money (trade) was invented.

And nothing is going to change this world of capitalism, materialism, consumption, corruption, disease, and financial greed and power.

Best investment is in the people, families, children; their welfare, their sanity, their balance, their love and life values; peace, liberty, freedom, independence, in touch with the wild, with the nature, with the senses, with the planet, with the earth, with each other in harmony.

All the money in the world is its own virus towards total destruction of man's own soul.
The cure is to give. ...To the ones without access to simple life necessities; water, warm clothes for the cold days, a roof to protect against the rough nights, and a chance @ peace. ...Food.

Disney they can do whatever with their 3D Blu-ray movies; I just don't really care about them. They are certainly not ruling my life.
I'll take the good from them, I'll buy it; and leave the rest to themselves so that they can rot in hell with it. After all, that's exactly what they're good at; giving us some good stuff, and denying us access to their world by making us pay more than we have to. ...The greed, the corporations, the monsters of extreme capitalism @ the service of the riches from the head of their headquarter's strategists. ...Wrong strategy; they are already the biggest losers of them all in the view of us all so many.

And I'm saying that in total numbness and calmness. ...Disconnected of it all, without having anything to do with it.

I will simply keep appreciating the good they bring, and that's all.

And if ever 3D die (I know it won't); I'll be blaming them a little, for sure.

* The words mean nothing without seeing their speakers.

If you think that I am complaining, you are mistaking; I am simply giving you my honest straight opinion in the now. Life is beautiful; and the world can be a much better place without Disney's money strategists.
Dreamworks is doing just fine. ...Warner Brothers too. ...And Columbia not bad @ all. ...Universal: ok.
Criterion: Chapeau! ...FOX: Forget it.

Last edited by NorthSky; 08-31-2014 at 12:23 AM.
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post #530 of 532 Old 08-31-2014, 12:30 AM
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Originally Posted by Don Landis View Post
Just remember, I'm not the one complaining, and not the one feeling being ripped off by businesses. I don't enjoy feeling being ripped off. I'm having fun. Some people do enjoy being miserable and not happy unless they are complaining about everything.
Internet's perception/deception/interpretation big time; much more often than not.
What we read is not always what it truly appears to be. ...All in our mind, all in our own mind.
When we judge is when we fail. ...Who is truly complaining after all; the one who sat quietly @ distance,
or someone else.
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post #531 of 532 Old 08-31-2014, 10:51 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Apostate View Post
Can DVHS videos be recycled? It'd be a shame if you couldn't and had no choice but to throw them away. There is so much stuff that can be recycled, reused, or reclaimed for parts/materials that gets thrown away because we have no option or don't know what to do with them. I have obsolete electronic and computer gears sitting in my garage. It drives my wife crazy but I don't feel right throwing them away, filling up landfills and causing pollution. We need a better, more comprehensive and clearer recycling program in this country.
I was recycling for years, or at least a few years recently and I've been scraping stuff like crt's and computer parts but now I'm going the other direction with plastic bottles and other household stuff. I wouldn't have a problem continuing to recycle, IF we actually saw some cost benefit to it. First, you have to pay more for recycling, the extra container plus the extra pickup, when they make money off the contents they receive. Now if it didn't cost more and they gave you a discount, I would jump all over it.

Next, since all those materials are being reused, then you have the raw materials there that should save cost for future purchases which you don't ever see. And I actually don't have the option of recycling now where I live, it's just not offered, and I'm not hauling everything off myself, so it's just going to the landfill and I'm going to burn some of the trash, maybe even some of the plastic. But I agree, we need something, but there has to be an incentive or no one will do it, including myself.

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Originally Posted by Apostate View Post
Ha! That's true. People don't blink twice about paying $5 coffee a day and get outraged at $1 or 2 per month increase in their Netflix charge. I don't know about three times but I do agree that even at twice the current rate, Netflix would still be one heckuva deal.
Explanation- I used 3X because I currently pay $7.99 per mo. That would put me at $24 per month. I subscribbed to Blockbuster subscription service last at $35 per month for about the same number of movies before they went bust. Today I have 3DBR and get maybe 3 disks a month for about $20. Hulu+ I hardly watch it since there is never anything I'm interested in. I need to drop the subscription. Amazon Prime is good as it is free since I use Prime for free shipping. I watch a couple titles on Prime a month.

My suggestion would be- Gladly pay 2 or even 3 times for 3D streaming titles as they are released to disk. Would there be enough like me to make it work? I doubt it because most people are too cheap to see the benefit. The others would complain that the streaming doesn't work for them or if it does, they would miss out on the director's comments because they need those to complete their film school class assignment. ( This last excuse I just learned exists from these threads, I must admit, it's different.)
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