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post #91 of 418 Old 12-07-2013, 01:45 PM
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Originally Posted by Dr_jitsu View Post

Next, the actual 3D material is not that impressive (and hence the "underwhelmed comment). Movies have more depth, but no other advantages over 2D. In fact the darkness often more than counters any benefit from being 3D.


I do not like wearing the glasses. I bought into the 3D hype 3 years ago, in the hope that 3D would grow, the opposite of what has actually happened. The money spent (can't remember if it was $300 or $500) was a lesson I should already know (don't be an early adopter).

Thankyou for finally answering the question and as for my grammar, I was deaf until I was just under ten and my written English has always suffered as a result. I have worked incredibly hard at improving in this area and still do, but those years are rather vital and something I was not fortunate enough to benefit from. Just try and remember that some people that you scrutinize have worked extremely hard to get there English to where it currently is but for various reasons it isn't as easy for very real reasons for some as it is for others.

3d has grown by 40% each year for the last four years, if you where expecting larger growth then fair enough, but it has exceeded my expectations (I know some where expecting a massive boom but I never thought that was realistic or would happen anytime soon). Glasses don't bother me but is a fair complaint and one that should be addressed shortly. Brightness at home shouldn't really be an issue anymore as long as you buy the right equipment. With that being said the initial wave of 3d display devices where nearly all terrible for displaying 3d with both brightness and crosstalk issues. Can I presume that when you can get a glasses free display without brightness issues your interest will be present again? (as that is the direction for home that seems to be the next step for 3d).
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post #92 of 418 Old 12-07-2013, 02:12 PM
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If the film looks dark, then you're doing something wrong with your setup. A properly mastered 3D movie playing back on a properly calibrated TV should look nearly as bright as its 2D counterpart. Replies in bold. I installed everything, and had the TV (Mitsu 82 inch DLP) professional calibrated. The main reasons were for picture quality and the 9 large speakers and 6 18 inch subs.

If you had watched a movie that was designed with 3D in mind (just about any of the Imax features, Pacific Rim, House of Wax, etc.) you'd see that there is A LOT more to 3D than just enhanced depth. Those titles use the 3D to really pull you into the presentation.
As someone who has had to wear prescription glasses since I was five years old, I never have any sympathy for the "glasses wearing" argument. If you're sitting in front of a TV to watch a movie then I don't see how wearing plastic glasses that weigh next to nothing can be such a chore. I was fortunate enough to have good eyesight until about 4 years ago...Please don't hate. My hair has gone gray, if that helps:rolleyes:

If you are trying to multitask while watching a 3D movie (ie talking to your friends, moving about the room, cooking dinner, etc.) then you really should not be watching the movie at all.You are preaching to the choir my friend. I put together my whole system (and then had it tuned/calibrated). If you count the kick ass American made seats and the cheap Chinese seats My system ran over $35K ....I built it over 6 months and got many things on sale. I put put heart and soul into this system. and that was before hiring a pro to tune.Multitasking and 3D do not co-exist well together and I think a lot of the complaints about 3D stem from people who try to do exactly this while the movie is playing. In my experience, most movie fans - you know, people who actually sit down and watch the movie instead of having it basically be background noise while they do other stuff - enjoy it. I don't budge, when I watch a movie, nothing else matters. I don't even eat.

Also, what possible kind of 3D rig could you have gotten for $300-$500? Three years ago, just the BluRay players were going for close to that amount.

I have an OPPO, phenomenal unit. It was $500 and given the upscaling well worth it. The $300- 500...now that I think about it, it was $300 for the accessories and the glasses, which are not light, BTW.
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post #93 of 418 Old 12-07-2013, 02:30 PM
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Originally Posted by FilmReverie View Post

Thankyou for finally answering the question and as for my grammar, I was deaf until I was just under ten and my written English has always suffered as a result. I have worked incredibly hard at improving in this area and still do, but those years are rather vital and something I was not fortunate enough to benefit from. Just try and remember that some people that you scrutinize have worked extremely hard to get there English to where it currently is but for various reasons it isn't as easy for very real reasons for some as it is for others.

3d has grown by 40% each year for the last four years, if you where expecting larger growth then fair enough, but it has exceeded my expectations (I know some where expecting a massive boom but I never thought that was realistic or would happen anytime soon). Glasses don't bother me but is a fair complaint and one that should be addressed shortly. Brightness at home shouldn't really be an issue anymore as long as you buy the right equipment. With that being said the initial wave of 3d display devices where nearly all terrible for displaying 3d with both brightness and crosstalk issues. Can I presume that when you can get a glasses free display without brightness issues your interest will be present again? (as that is the direction for home that seems to be the next step for 3d).

OK, now I feel like a big jerk. Those 10 years are critical, and I am very sorry you had them taken from you. My son is 6 and seems to learn new things everyday.

Please accept my Olive branch.

Having said that, I am again taken back to my original position; 3D still needs extensive development, Hopefully it will eventually become an option that requires nothing special beyond choice of TV and 3D/ Blu-Ray player. As Tony notes, the first iteration of 3D capable set ups had.have many problems.
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post #94 of 418 Old 12-07-2013, 03:38 PM
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OK, now I feel like a big jerk. Those 10 years are critical, and I am very sorry you had them taken from you. My son is 6 and seems to learn new things everyday.

Please accept my Olive branch.

Having said that, I am again taken back to my original position; 3D still needs extensive development, Hopefully it will eventually become an option that requires nothing special beyond choice of TV and 3D/ Blu-Ray player. As Tony notes, the first iteration of 3D capable set ups had.have many problems.

Have you seen Hugo, if so what do you think of its use of 3d? I agree many films are not embracing 3d, they are utilizing it but not truly embracing it as part of the medium. Hugo to me is a great example that does this.
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post #95 of 418 Old 12-07-2013, 04:00 PM
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I have an OPPO, phenomenal unit. It was $500 and given the upscaling well worth it. The $300- 500...now that I think about it, it was $300 for the accessories and the glasses, which are not light, BTW.

Gotcha; based on your original post it read like you'd spent $300-500 on a TV and that just didn't make sense to me.

As FilmReverie has said Hugo is another great example of 3D serving the story and enhancing the experience. Life of Pi does that as well and, when it is released on home video, I'm sure Gravity will be another great 3D experience. Yes there are a lot of cash grab duds out there but there are also some real gems.
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post #96 of 418 Old 12-08-2013, 01:39 AM
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Originally Posted by FilmReverie View Post

Have you seen Hugo, if so what do you think of its use of 3d? I agree many films are not embracing 3d, they are utilizing it but not truly embracing it as part of the medium. Hugo to me is a great example that does this.

Yes, I saw HUGO, but it was standard Blu-Ray. I believe I had netflix back then. Beautiful movie and story (Borat and Ghandi in one movie:D)

My TV is a 3d ready 82 inch Mitsu I bought 3 years ago. There was a 3D package that I paid for. To be honest, I am pretty happy w/ my system (9 free standing Klipsch 6 Chase HT 18 inch subs) Onkyo, Emotiva amp, etc.) and watching Blu-Ray for now.

I am not a refined audiophile like many here who would not even consider a non-tube amp made in China, or Klipsch, but for me, w/ a 7.1 audio, my system blows me away. Klipsche can be a bit too sharp for some, but for movies I love them. And the RF 7's are American made. One thing I need not worry about is the WAF, my wife watches more TV than I do. I told her that our house does not let that vile Kardashian crap in but she watches it anyway. mad.gif

I just get tired of the constant struggle for quality movies....I pretty much have to buy them, or use red box which rarely has what I want.

I used to love NetFlix, but nearly every movie I put in my Que became "unavailable" by the time it was to be mailed out.

Has Net flix gotten better?

I think someone mentioned another source, so I will go back and look for their suggestions. 3-4 good Blue-Ray movies a week will keep a simple man like me happy. Someday, I may seek out more 3d material. I have taken some huge financial hits these last 2-3 years so I am going to be happy w/ what I have. One of my financial hits was of my own making. I sunk $140 k into a race car and sold it for $65k. Very expensive hobby. The beauty of building a good HT system is it holds value and gives incredible entertainment in the meantime.
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post #97 of 418 Old 12-08-2013, 02:38 AM
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Originally Posted by Dr_jitsu View Post

Yes, I saw HUGO, but it was standard Blu-Ray. I believe I had netflix back then. Beautiful movie and story (Borat and Ghandi in one movie:D)

My TV is a 3d ready 82 inch Mitsu I bought 3 years ago. There was a 3D package that I paid for. To be honest, I am pretty happy w/ my system (9 free standing Klipsch 6 Chase HT 18 inch subs) Onkyo, Emotiva amp, etc.) and watching Blu-Ray for now.

I am not a refined audiophile like many here who would not even consider a non-tube amp made in China, or Klipsch, but for me, w/ a 7.1 audio, my system blows me away. Klipsche can be a bit too sharp for some, but for movies I love them. And the RF 7's are American made. One thing I need not worry about is the WAF, my wife watches more TV than I do. I told her that our house does not let that vile Kardashian crap in but she watches it anyway. mad.gif

I just get tired of the constant struggle for quality movies....I pretty much have to buy them, or use red box which rarely has what I want.

I used to love NetFlix, but nearly every movie I put in my Que became "unavailable" by the time it was to be mailed out.

Has Net flix gotten better?

I think someone mentioned another source, so I will go back and look for their suggestions. 3-4 good Blue-Ray movies a week will keep a simple man like me happy. Someday, I may seek out more 3d material. I have taken some huge financial hits these last 2-3 years so I am going to be happy w/ what I have. One of my financial hits was of my own making. I sunk $140 k into a race car and sold it for $65k. Very expensive hobby. The beauty of building a good HT system is it holds value and gives incredible entertainment in the meantime.

Indeed, so it is more its use. Not an actual flaw in how the 3d is presented from a technical stand point (outside of the inconvenience of glasses). I only watch blu-rays and the occasional dvd or vhs (for films not available on blu-ray) and where I live we have quickflix (Australia) which is like netflix but netflix has much better streaming but quickflix has a much better mail out system from what I can gather. If you get a chance check out films like Coraline, Gravity, Hugo, Life of Pi, Avatar, Avengers (especially the last battle) or some imax documentaries etc on a nice 3d display (preferably large as well, personally anything less then 50" really doesn't work in 3d all that well unless your sitting really close [and yes I know yours is large but I assume you may also watch films elsewhere smile.gif]). It's a shame that so many afterthought conversions are done as they very rarely work (the only one that to me is exceptional is Star Trek Into Darkness. Conversions like The Wolverine, Painted Skin 2, Thor 1 and 2, Iron Man 3, Clash of the Titans and anything that essentially never has any moments that benefit from 3d (and even worse have several moments that are hindered by 3d) need to stop as they really are hurting the medium and slowing it from progressing.

You are using a dlp which is perfect for 3d as well (though brightness may be lower then desirable in 3d from what I am told).

[edit: I wouldn't expect quality 3d streaming to be available to most any time soon, 2d streaming is already barely good enough and the extra bandwidth needed for 3d just makes it unfeasible for most. Also I didn't know about the Kardashians until I read your post and googled it...... damn you, and what has been seen cannot be unseen That is all I can say].
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post #98 of 418 Old 12-08-2013, 08:26 AM
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I had my BenQ MW519 showing Despicable Me 3D in my living room on a sunny day. I found the active 3d glasses darken the movie to be good rather than terrible. The iceberg hitting the RMS Titanic in Titanic 3D the darkness of the active glasses were not as good as my passive glasses. I watched Titanic later that evening.
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post #99 of 418 Old 12-08-2013, 09:37 AM
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I am an early adaptor. I still remember when my 73" Mitsubishi DLP finally had 3D material and to see 3D at home was exhilarating. Then I moved on to Mitsubishi 82" and 92" sets which did not have any crosstalk issues only dimming due to the active glasses. My current setup is an 84" 4K LG that I bought for $13,000 and now can be bought for less than $10,000 online. The upscaling negates the passive resolution reduction resulting in 3D better than the theaters. So I totally disagree with those waiting for better 3D. It is here now. Passive glasses are very easy to use, no recharging, cheap and light. 4K sets are the answer with 65" sets available for less than $5,000.

I have a vast library of 3D material including my home 3D videos. In my opinion almost every movie is better in 3D.
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post #100 of 418 Old 12-08-2013, 11:42 AM
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Do you really believe that? You want me to 'just answer the question", but based upon what was asked it is not possible to do so. The inconsistency between subject and verb makes it impossible ferret out the question. Grammar is not secondary, it is not a "garnish," it is fundamental to understanding.

Let me illustrate the larger problem. Oh, and BTW, English was my worst subject. You have an idea, you write that idea down. It is now once removed. Someone reads it, it is twice removed. If it was well written, then the reader should have a pretty good idea about your idea. If we are heuristically sloppy, then by the time the reader reads the majority of your meaning is lost. The sentence "Just how it is often being used or other technical reasons?" Illustrates the problem. I simply have no idea what this question means, and how I can "just answer it."

I do. Language is a living thing that constantly evolves and changes. As such, grammar is flexible. Do you have trouble understanding Southern dialect, so-called Ebonics or even pidgin English spoken by various immigrant groups because they don't use correct grammar? Heck, even UK English is different than American English. Do you have trouble understanding a Brit? If you do, that would explain why English was your worst subject. It's not the English language, it's you, buddy.
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post #101 of 418 Old 12-08-2013, 11:54 AM
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The sentence "Just how it is often being used or other technical reasons?" Illustrates the problem. I simply have no idea what this question means, and how I can "just answer it."

I took it as he wants to know how you view your 3D, I.e., is it in a light-controlled environment, how far do you sit from the screen, is it active or passive, etc. etc. etc. You know... technical aspects of your viewing.

I know it's hard but try to use your noodles once in a while. I hear it can delay an onset of dementia later on in your life. Nothing but good can come from using your noodles. wink.gif
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post #102 of 418 Old 12-08-2013, 12:48 PM
 
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I know it's hard but try to use your noodles once in a while. I hear it can delay an onset of dementia later on in your life. Nothing but good can come from using your noodles. wink.gif

Well said.
If we all put as much effort into understanding as we do in trying to make our own view understood we'd get a lot further. The point is to enjoy, not to just feel "right".
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post #103 of 418 Old 12-08-2013, 01:07 PM
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I do. Language is a living thing that constantly evolves and changes. As such, grammar is flexible. Do you have trouble understanding Southern dialect, so-called Ebonics or even pidgin English spoken by various immigrant groups because they don't use correct grammar? Heck, even UK English is different than American English. Do you have trouble understanding a Brit? If you do, that would explain why English was your worst subject. It's not the English language, it's you, buddy.

Wow, thank you for the tutorial on linguistics. Is dissension in the Mid-East and famine in Africa also on "you, [me] buddy?"


Yes, English was my weaker area, and in part responsible for me being a HS drop out. However, today I have a doctorate (went back to JC and did well). I'm sorry, Apostate, if my request for hermenutical clarity made you sad, angry or ruined your day - if it did, you might want to tell me what adaptations I need to make to understand recent "garnishments."

I don't want to have to continue making the point (this is the third time) Apostate. The point was/is that human communication is not just a garnishment. Please go back to my posts, but this time, try and keep up.

Back to the OT, we have a trend. Supporters of 3D who believe that eventually the format will redeem itself, and those that that think it is a dying technology. Personally I am in the middle, as my early adoption was a turn off. What the future holds, I do not know.
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post #104 of 418 Old 12-08-2013, 01:25 PM
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The doctor keeps digging his own hole. He's making a worthwhile discussion unappealing to take part in with his attitude. I actually agree with him as an early adopter who has been more disappointed than impressed with 3d implementation overall, yet I have zero interest in discussing this matter with him. And I know I did just that, before he points that out with a snarky reply. He is a doctor, in case he hasn't reminded you guys of that again.
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post #105 of 418 Old 12-08-2013, 06:33 PM
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Wow. Keep digging !

( I see that he's already updated his reply twice and since deleted his post)

I've been a member of this forum for almost 12 years and have seen people who play this way around here have short lives on the boards. Doc's first reply to the poster who he thought fell short of his grammar standards should have been fair warning ... Even given his half hearted apology. But your latest post goes into "report" territory so I can't wait for it to show up again.
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post #106 of 418 Old 12-08-2013, 08:13 PM
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One of my financial hits was of my own making. I sunk $140 k into a race car and sold it for $65k. Very expensive hobby.

Merlin?

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post #107 of 418 Old 12-08-2013, 09:42 PM
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I'm a late adopter, in fact I only have a $700 projector that just happens to do a phenomenal job with 3D. So I hope it sticks around, while I think studios have abused 3D a bit causing over-saturation, I still find it enhances a lot of movies: Life of Pi and Gravity come to mind first and foremost. Actually, I think Gravity did a lot of good in reinvigorating people's interest in the format.
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post #108 of 418 Old 12-08-2013, 10:03 PM
 
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I'm a late adopter, in fact I only have a $700 projector that just happens to do a phenomenal job with 3D. So I hope it sticks around, while I think studios have abused 3D a bit causing over-saturation, I still find it enhances a lot of movies: Life of Pi and Gravity come to mind first and foremost. Actually, I think Gravity did a lot of good in reinvigorating people's interest in the format.
+1
I've found a number of films that are improved with 3D. Avatar, Wizard Of Oz, and some that aren't as good, but are still pleasant to watch: Star Trek, Into Darkness and Jurassic Park; and that's all I've seen so far.
I have Life Of Pi, Hugo, Pacific Rim and Lion King here and will soon watch.

I am glad 3D got as popular as it did, and hope it continues to grow.

I also look forward to the issuance of Gravity since we saw it twice at different venues in 3D and thought the 3D effect was intelligently utilized.
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post #109 of 418 Old 12-09-2013, 06:22 AM
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even if you aren't a fan of the film, I highly recommend watching TITANIC. It's by far the best post-conversion I've seen and actually vastly improved the movie itself IMHO.
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post #110 of 418 Old 12-09-2013, 07:23 AM
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Wow, thank you for the tutorial on linguistics. Is dissension in the Mid-East and famine in Africa also on "you, [me] buddy?"

You're quite welcome. That lesson was given to me by a person who taught linguistics at an Ivy League university. So you actually are getting a high quality "learning." Also I will ignore your clumsy attempt at red herring. Dissension and famine indeed. rolleyes.gif
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Yes, English was my weaker area, and in part responsible for me being a HS drop out. However, today I have a doctorate (went back to JC and did well). I'm sorry, Apostate, if my request for hermenutical clarity made you sad, angry or ruined your day - if it did, you might want to tell me what adaptations I need to make to understand recent "garnishments."

I don't want to have to continue making the point (this is the third time) Apostate. The point was/is that human communication is not just a garnishment. Please go back to my posts, but this time, try and keep up.

Oh, where to begin. Let's take a holistic approach. You acknowledge English is your worst or weaker area. You show numerous spelling and punctuation errors in your posts. Yet you berate others on grammar? Is that irony or hypocrisy? Or is it simply chutzpah?

Let me tell you about doctorate degrees. Only people who refer to themselves as a "doctor" are medical doctors and dentists; and only in a professional setting. I thought that was a bit pompous and asked my doctor friends. They all replied that it was to give reassurance to the patients that they were in qualified "good hands." I know several PhDs and they never refer to themselves as "doctors." Did you know that lawyers were "doctors?" JD is doctorate degree. Heck, by your standard, I should call my wife a doctor. She's a pharmacist and she has a doctorate degree. Also, please keep in mind that all those online school doctorate degrees are not real doctorate degrees even if they call it as such.

It's been my experience that only people who tout their doctorate degrees are usually insecure and crave/demand recognition as a compensation for their insecurity. I admit your path to your doctorate degree is rather unusual. I don't know a single "doctor" who went to decent schools took the path that you did. Is that the source of your insecurity? That you went to a no-name school? Or your doctorate degree was in a vocational subject? You do know that doctorate in massage therapy is not really a doctorate degree, right?

While I pity your psychological projections in your post, I have to point out that you used "hermenutical" wrong. Also garnishment has a quite different meaning from a garnish. Roget is only your friend if you take the time to look up the actual meaning of his synonyms instead of just taking the first synonym that pops up. I am a bit surprised by your level of writing since all the "doctors" I know were decent writers (since they all had to write so many research papers and what not).

I just want you to know that it's okay. You don't have to always try to seem intelligent. Just accept yourself. You don't have to look like something that you are not.
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post #111 of 418 Old 12-09-2013, 07:46 AM
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Apostate - you didn't even get to see the doozie he directed towards me. It was quickly deleted.
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post #112 of 418 Old 12-09-2013, 07:59 AM
 
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even if you aren't a fan of the film, I highly recommend watching TITANIC. It's by far the best post-conversion I've seen and actually vastly improved the movie itself IMHO.

An economically necessary oversight. I'm waiting for the price to come down to where I will purchase it.
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post #113 of 418 Old 12-09-2013, 08:17 AM
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Originally Posted by Cyrano View Post

An economically necessary oversight. I'm waiting for the price to come down to where I will purchase it.

when the time comes, you won't be disappointed. i really disliked the film back when it first came out. this 3d presentation is breathtaking especially once the action gets going, and truly adds to the emotional impact of the film.
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post #114 of 418 Old 12-09-2013, 08:50 AM
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I think the rental market is delaying widespread acceptance. Starting with Alice in Wonderland, my wife and I have seen almost every movie that comes out in 3D in the 3D IMAX theater near us. We finally bought a 3D projector to bring this experience into our home. We've watched 3-5 3D movies in our home the last 6 months since installing it.

So here are two people who are not quite early adapters, but ahead of the mainstream who took the leap, and even we aren't watching 3D at home with any regularity.

Why? Because we don't buy movies. We purchase 3 to 5 movies per year. We do have Netflix 2 DVD plus streaming and we rent a redbox movie most weekends. But 3D isn't an affordable option.

We have actually discovered recently that Starz has 3D movies OnDemand and have watched a few that way, so our viewing may increase (I really hope). We can rent 3D movies through Xfinity on Demand or through PSN, but at $5-8 per rental, we can't justify it for more than a special occasion. We certainly aren't about to drop $40 to buy a combo-pack.

In essence, it appears we are still in the early stage of the supply demand equation where early adopters burden the cost of low demand. How long will we be satisfied with the status quo? If our patience wanes before the mainstream jumps in, 3D will die.
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post #115 of 418 Old 12-09-2013, 09:10 AM
 
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Originally Posted by oleus View Post

when the time comes, you won't be disappointed. i really disliked the film back when it first came out. this 3d presentation is breathtaking especially once the action gets going, and truly adds to the emotional impact of the film.

I had friends who felt the same as you about the film. (Though, perhaps not for the same reasons; I can't know that.) I loved it. I still have the laserdisc.
It may be a clinched love story with villains too broadly drawn and heroes too good to be true, but I sat in my theater seat and bought the whole thing.
At the end when old Rose traveled in her final (?) slumber's dreams to connect once again with the source of her life's inspiration I was moved.

I think Cameron's Avatar is easily criticized as was Titanic. And I cannot disagree with the observation that there are clinched elements. But he has a strong vision and is not afraid to "go for it".

As for Titanic, I own the large DVD version, and the Blu-ray version and will enjoy the 3D version I am sure.

Last Christmas I saw it come down to $20.
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post #116 of 418 Old 12-09-2013, 11:40 AM
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Originally Posted by oleus View Post

even if you aren't a fan of the film, I highly recommend watching TITANIC. It's by far the best post-conversion I've seen and actually vastly improved the movie itself IMHO.

I can see how that could happen, I will have to check it out. The most impressive post-conversion for me is still Gravity, that was pretty awesome.
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post #117 of 418 Old 12-09-2013, 11:51 AM
 
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Originally Posted by Seihaku View Post

The most impressive post-conversion for me is still Gravity, that was pretty awesome.

I did not know it was a was a post-conversion. I saw it twice in two different theatres. Both times in 3D. What a great movie and what excellent use of the 3D technology.

I look forward to the disc release. I'll have to watch the 2D version at least once for comparison sake.
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post #118 of 418 Old 12-09-2013, 11:53 AM
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It's sort of a cheat I suppose, since the movie is 90% CG.
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post #119 of 418 Old 12-09-2013, 11:57 AM
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Read most of this thread... I'm having second thoughts about posting since grammar and correct English use (or is it usage) will be scrutinized tongue.gif .

Anyone with any kind of disability has my full support, no matter how old you are (just see my avatar).

Now for the fun part... we just started enjoying 3D. I would say that I like it and if I can watch it 3D or is available in 3D that would be my preference. However, my wife hates it, finds it rather annoying having to wear grasses and she feels the picture is to dim, nevertheless she plays along and watches 3D once in a while.

The greatest obstacle I see is that content, good or bad, is way too expensive. I believe 3D will not be widely accepted until we can buy a 3D movie for $15 or better yet we can rent a 3D movie (physical media) anywhere for $2, otherwise is a novelty of the few.
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Reference Blu-Ray Demo Disc

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post #120 of 418 Old 12-09-2013, 12:00 PM
 
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It's sort of a cheat I suppose, since the movie is 90% CG.
You say that like it's a bad thing. smile.gif
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