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post #1 of 23 Old 09-27-2014, 04:13 PM - Thread Starter
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4k 3d?

I'm wondering if there will be 4K 3D blu-rays next fall when 4K blu-ray hits?

4K is amazing. 3D is amazing. The two together (with active 3D at least) could be mind-blowing. . . .

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post #2 of 23 Old 09-27-2014, 11:15 PM
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Been wondering that too, but I doubt it. Mainly, I think we would have heard about it by now. Might be another couple of years.

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post #3 of 23 Old 09-28-2014, 08:58 AM
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It is amazing! I saw the Sony 4K 3D demos using their server system last year at CES. I have excellent internet here so I'm not concerned so much about Blu Ray 4K as I am just knowing the industry is cutting loose some good 3D 4K titles for those that have the 4K screens even if it is just downloaded to local server.
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post #4 of 23 Old 09-28-2014, 08:59 AM
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I don't think there are any specs for 4K 3D yet, if ever. I'm a big 3D fan so I certainly hope this comes to pass. We might have to be content upscaling to 4K to 4K monitors for the next few years. The new Epson LS10000 laser projector will upscale 1080p BD to simulated 4K (e-shift) but this option is greyed out for 3D.
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post #5 of 23 Old 09-30-2014, 11:13 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WheelHoss1 View Post
I'm wondering if there will be 4K 3D blu-rays next fall when 4K blu-ray hits?

4K is amazing. 3D is amazing. The two together (with active 3D at least) could be mind-blowing. . . .
You won't see 4K 3D anytime soon due of Blu Ray space & price. since 3D eat a ton of space, 4K non 3D movie 2hr plus is 120gb let say then times that by 2, you looking at at least 240gb movie in 3D, this will make 4K 3D Blu Ray cost more money due of the space.

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post #6 of 23 Old 10-03-2014, 06:43 PM
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... 4K non 3D movie 2hr plus is 120gb let say then times that by 2 ...
I thought the 3D BD compression methodology generated one of eye views by storing data representing only the differences between the two frames, and that given Left/Right eye frames would contain many areas that were similar, high compression ratios could achieved? If so I see no technical reason why 4K 3D couldn't be supported if the powers-that-be decide to do so.
I've never verified whether this is the case though.

Regarding the merits of 4K 3D... I have been quite impressed with the upscaling abilities of the LG 84UB9800 I recently purchased. More so than I expected to be. No, it doesn't look as good as true 4K (in 2D *or* 3D), it is definitely a noticeable improvement as oppossed to leaving the upscaling turned off. In 3D any verticle upscaling has less impact (excepting for objects close to the screen plane), but the horizontal upscaling seems to add sharpness to me eyes. And without too egregious edge-ringing at that as long as settings are kept in check. I am really liking it so far. I hope 3D in 4K gets supported in some way or another.
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post #7 of 23 Old 10-03-2014, 08:17 PM
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Originally Posted by ElGreat1 View Post
You won't see 4K 3D anytime soon due of Blu Ray space & price. since 3D eat a ton of space, 4K non 3D movie 2hr plus is 120gb let say then times that by 2, you looking at at least 240gb movie in 3D, this will make 4K 3D Blu Ray cost more money due of the space.

3D already costs more than 2D, nothing new here both in production and at the consumer end.

It will probably happen, but it won't be rolling out next year with 4K 2D. They'll produce larger discs to fit the content, which is why I'm waiting. You'll have to upgrade again to a 4K 3D player in about 3-5 years when they're released, baring some quiet announcement behind the 4K 2D in 2015. Remember they released 3D Blu ray players later, plus HDMI 1.4 cables. You'll need a 4K 3D BD player plus HDMI 2.1 or whatever they're at then.

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post #8 of 23 Old 10-04-2014, 09:54 AM
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I recently spent $525 to upgrade my LG 84" 4K 9600 to the new HDMI 2.0 standards so I can watch 4K streaming from Netflix. I also have some LG 4K 3D videos that I put on a USB 3 flash drive and they look terrific. But they are O/U so true 4K 3D should even be better.
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post #9 of 23 Old 10-06-2014, 07:51 AM
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Originally Posted by NSX1992 View Post
I recently spent $525 to upgrade my LG 84" 4K 9600 to the new HDMI 2.0 standards so I can watch 4K streaming from Netflix. I also have some LG 4K 3D videos that I put on a USB 3 flash drive and they look terrific. But they are O/U so true 4K 3D should even be better.
Why did you have to have it upgrade if it was already 4K? Curious how they could release a 4k display with no way to feed it 4k and then you have to pay to upgrade it?

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post #10 of 23 Old 10-06-2014, 08:31 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ElGreat1 View Post
You won't see 4K 3D anytime soon due of Blu Ray space & price. since 3D eat a ton of space, 4K non 3D movie 2hr plus is 120gb let say then times that by 2, you looking at at least 240gb movie in 3D, this will make 4K 3D Blu Ray cost more money due of the space.
3D doesn't double the size. It adds approximately 50%.
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post #11 of 23 Old 10-06-2014, 09:49 AM
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Originally Posted by tomtastic View Post
Why did you have to have it upgrade if it was already 4K? Curious how they could release a 4k display with no way to feed it 4k and then you have to pay to upgrade it?
The set was made in December 2012 before there were 4K standards established. It had HDMI 1.4 now HDMI 2.0 and .265 to enable Netflix 4K streaming. The set did previously upgrade everything to 4K (not true 4K) but 3D was excellent and I could use 4K in my pc games.
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post #12 of 23 Old 10-06-2014, 03:41 PM
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Ok, I know I've seen some cameras that were being released with a free update for h.265 when it was finalized this year being sold last year. Didn't realize you'd have to pay to get to were it should be, but I guess that's hardware upgrade too, not just software. Yikes, I'd be a little upset having to put money into it after it already depreciated in value, I'm sure they come standard now with 2.0, but that's the drawback to getting it early.

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post #13 of 23 Old 10-06-2014, 04:03 PM
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Originally Posted by blackssr View Post
3D doesn't double the size. It adds approximately 50%.

Then why are 3D movies 50GB discs vs. regular 25GB. And yes, its still has to send two 1080p images to each eye for true 1080p 3d. Remember when home 3d came out and HDMI had to be 1.4 to carry the twice the 1080p bandwidth for 3d?


There won't be True 4K 3D. This is why NHK and others wanted to skip 4K and go to 8K but as usual we settle on the lower quality that isn't capable of True 4K 3D. You have to be able to carry two 4K signals to have True 4K 3D. That's why I am pissed about 4K in away. We will not have The Hobbit Movies in true 4K 3D HFR(the way it was intended and shot) in home for 10 years if 4K keeps being adopted at its rate. Also, thank Sony and its bull crap Blu-Ray. We should be on something else i.e. holocube, cartridge/thumbdrive based format, not the limited Blu-Ray. Nope, everyone is stuck on 1080p passive, you know, the same thing DLP and Plasma owners have been doing for the last 5 years.

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post #14 of 23 Old 10-06-2014, 04:39 PM
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Then why are 3D movies 50GB discs vs. regular 25GB. And yes, its still has to send two 1080p images to each eye for true 1080p 3d. Remember when home 3d came out and HDMI had to be 1.4 to carry the twice the 1080p bandwidth for 3d?
There is a lack of understanding of how 3D frame packed works in the statement above: The frame packed format* uses the full 2D left eye image that is the same as used on the 2D disk and rather than add a full Right eye file, it encodes the right eye as a data difference file and instruction set. This reduces the size of the right eye file to a variable amount. I won't say 50% because it varies. The correct terminology is base file and dependent file. It depends on the encoding in that data file and the base 2D image file. Only the left eye is a true image file.

*Edit Note: The actual format is called MVC or multi view coding. That is, how it is stored on the disk. The frame packing is how the video is streamed from the player, in case my simple wording above was confusing to some detailed critics.


It is a misconception that 2D disks are 25Gb and 3D are 50Gb. The capacity of the disk is determined by the total file sizes of the content in the package. You might have a short film in 3D that is on a 25Gb disk and a 2D that is bundled with additional features on a 50 Gb disk. The size on the disks can vary between about 22Gb to 47 Gb for most movies.

HDMI 1.4 isn't a requirement for 3D. It is a requirement to handshake to a device that is 3D such as a 3D Blu Ray Player. Many people successfully used an HDMI pass through device to display 3D. But, this required a separate audio feed to the AVR. I believe HDMI 1.1 had enough bandwidth for 3D without the audio but I never tried that. Just use high speed HDMI cables.

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post #15 of 23 Old 10-06-2014, 07:38 PM
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Originally Posted by DRaven72 View Post
Then why are 3D movies 50GB discs vs. regular 25GB. And yes, its still has to send two 1080p images to each eye for true 1080p 3d. Remember when home 3d came out and HDMI had to be 1.4 to carry the twice the 1080p bandwidth for 3d?


There won't be True 4K 3D. This is why NHK and others wanted to skip 4K and go to 8K but as usual we settle on the lower quality that isn't capable of True 4K 3D. You have to be able to carry two 4K signals to have True 4K 3D. That's why I am pissed about 4K in away. We will not have The Hobbit Movies in true 4K 3D HFR(the way it was intended and shot) in home for 10 years if 4K keeps being adopted at its rate. Also, thank Sony and its bull crap Blu-Ray. We should be on something else i.e. holocube, cartridge/thumbdrive based format, not the limited Blu-Ray. Nope, everyone is stuck on 1080p passive, you know, the same thing DLP and Plasma owners have been doing for the last 5 years.
There will be 4k 3D for sure, Why? Because they want to sell it to you. And you'll buy it Why? Because you want it and can't live without it. At some point products become stale like HD TV's, so they release 3D, then after awhile 4k, so 4k 3D is next for sure.

Discs are cheaper than any of that other stuff you mentioned so Blu ray isn't going away and will continue to be the distribution medium for many years to come. It's basically a disposable product to manufacture, most of the cost is in handling and the rest goes to studios. Anding layers isn't that difficult for more capacity and they've already confirmed that throughput isn't an issue as the disc can spin faster if needed.

4k 3D aside, I've been enjoying passive 3D for the past 2 years, haven't felt like I needed to jump to full 1080p active or 4K passive yet.

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post #16 of 23 Old 10-14-2014, 06:39 PM
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Tried out passive 3D (Hoyts polarised lense) on a LG 4K panel the other day. 4K just might be the savior for the dying 3D market. Proper cinematic 3D with no drawbacks.

Native 3D 4K contents on the other hand... I wouldn't hold my breath for at least another 4yrs. Nope, I have very little faith in content distributors.
Just imagine The Hobbit in it's pure 4K48p passive 3D goodness! Straight from source DCP to your home.
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post #17 of 23 Old 10-19-2014, 11:16 AM - Thread Starter
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Tried out passive 3D (Hoyts polarised lense) on a LG 4K panel the other day. 4K just might be the savior for the dying 3D market. Proper cinematic 3D with no drawbacks.

Native 3D 4K contents on the other hand... I wouldn't hold my breath for at least another 4yrs. Nope, I have very little faith in content distributors.
Just imagine The Hobbit in it's pure 4K48p passive 3D goodness! Straight from source DCP to your home.
If it's passive, though, you wouldn't really be seeing a true 4K image, right? It'd be more like 1080p from my understanding.

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post #18 of 23 Old 10-19-2014, 02:33 PM
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And I'm not sure on 48p, people just can't get past the 24 frames for movies. You go higher than that it it looks like video. 48p didn't go over well for Hobbit. General public thought it looked like reality and not a movie.

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post #19 of 23 Old 10-20-2014, 06:43 PM
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If I really wanted to see a 'movie' I'll do 24p. But I wanted the Middle Earth 'immersion' experience in 3D, and the only way is the Peter Jackson way as intended. Screw the naysayers, they don't know what they're missing out.

My understanding is passive 3D halfs the vertical resolution each eye receives. With 4K I'd need around a 110" screen when sitting ~2.4m (a little under 8') from the screen to get the full benefit of native 4K in 2D. Sacrificing resolution for passive 3D means I'm back to needing only around 65" instead.


Either way, no 4K for me until 4K OLED 60"+ panels drops to consumer price, AND there's amples of native 3D 4K material to put on. I'm thinking at least 5yrs out.
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post #20 of 23 Old 10-20-2014, 07:25 PM
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3d 4k is alive and well courtesy of the Giant Screen Cinema Association, there are well over 60 titles some of them listed in these website.

It is an amazing thing to see, like looking out a window and the 4k blu ray format should accommodate it due to the large variety of content.
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post #21 of 23 Old 11-13-2014, 07:59 AM
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I wouldn't be surprised at all to see 4k 3D appear along 4k movies. There is a little more than a year to go before Christmas 2015. We will get updates on the 4k BD players just before and during CES 2015 to start. I'm hoping 4k 3D will be a feature.
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post #22 of 23 Old 11-23-2014, 12:23 AM
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Originally Posted by tomtastic View Post
And I'm not sure on 48p, people just can't get past the 24 frames for movies. You go higher than that it it looks like video. 48p didn't go over well for Hobbit. General public thought it looked like reality and not a movie.
The 48 fps version was the the most successful version - on IMAX at least.

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post #23 of 23 Old 11-23-2014, 12:25 AM
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Originally Posted by DRaven72 View Post
Then why are 3D movies 50GB discs vs. regular 25GB. And yes, its still has to send two 1080p images to each eye for true 1080p 3d. Remember when home 3d came out and HDMI had to be 1.4 to carry the twice the 1080p bandwidth for 3d?


There won't be True 4K 3D. This is why NHK and others wanted to skip 4K and go to 8K but as usual we settle on the lower quality that isn't capable of True 4K 3D. You have to be able to carry two 4K signals to have True 4K 3D. That's why I am pissed about 4K in away. We will not have The Hobbit Movies in true 4K 3D HFR(the way it was intended and shot) in home for 10 years if 4K keeps being adopted at its rate. Also, thank Sony and its bull crap Blu-Ray. We should be on something else i.e. holocube, cartridge/thumbdrive based format, not the limited Blu-Ray. Nope, everyone is stuck on 1080p passive, you know, the same thing DLP and Plasma owners have been doing for the last 5 years.
It was shot at 5K but the digital intermediate - what they used to show it in cinemas (and probably all CGI) was at 2K.
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