"I'm here to keep 3D alive." - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #1 of 40 Old 04-26-2017, 01:12 PM - Thread Starter
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"I'm here to keep 3D alive."

Micheal Bay vows to keep 3D alive in the best way possible by shooting native 3D. I'll admit I'm a little burned out on Transformers but I like his attitude on shooting these with the traditional 2 camera system. I was worried he went converted with using the new Red Dragon but it seems the A camera is still the IMAX 3D rig.

With the decline of 3D in the flat panel market it's good to see there are directors still wanting 3D for their movies.


Transformers: The Last Knight releases June 23.
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post #2 of 40 Old 04-26-2017, 01:15 PM
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it won't die in theaters, but home use might since there is no 4k 3d standard
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post #3 of 40 Old 04-26-2017, 03:10 PM
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Originally Posted by darkangelism View Post
it won't die in theaters, but home use might since there is no 4k 3d standard
I'm not convinced there needs to be a 4K 3D standard as the 3D content I see on my LG C6P 55" OLED screen at a normal viewing distance of ~ 10 feet is routinely jaw dropping! Now if you are talking about improving the home 3D experience for projection systems you may have a point, but as I said LG's passive 1080p per eye 3D solution is borderline miraculous IMHO.
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post #4 of 40 Old 04-26-2017, 03:13 PM
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Originally Posted by RickD_99 View Post
I'm not convinced there needs to be a 4K 3D standard as the 3D content I see on my LG C6P 55" OLED screen at a normal viewing distance of ~ 10 feet is routinely jaw dropping! Now if you are talking about improving the home 3D experience for projection systems you may have a point, but as I said LG's passive 1080p per eye 3D solution is borderline miraculous IMHO.
I just worry about the future, at some point bluray will be like VHS
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post #5 of 40 Old 04-26-2017, 04:06 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by darkangelism View Post
I just worry about the future, at some point bluray will be like VHS
I disagree. I think there are more out there that will never upgrade to 4K. They might have the TV for it if they have to buy a new one, because that's all there will be at some point, but purchasing 4K content over HD I don't see taking over any time soon. Most are fine with HD given the option to pay extra to get 4k.
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post #6 of 40 Old 04-26-2017, 04:26 PM
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Originally Posted by RickD_99 View Post
I'm not convinced there needs to be a 4K 3D standard as the 3D content I see on my LG C6P 55" OLED screen at a normal viewing distance of ~ 10 feet is routinely jaw dropping! Now if you are talking about improving the home 3D experience for projection systems you may have a point, but as I said LG's passive 1080p per eye 3D solution is borderline miraculous IMHO.
There's also the upgrade when using a 4K set like the LG, you get full resolution per eye on the passive glasses now.
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post #7 of 40 Old 04-27-2017, 06:52 AM
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I disagree. I think there are more out there that will never upgrade to 4K. They might have the TV for it if they have to buy a new one, because that's all there will be at some point, but purchasing 4K content over HD I don't see taking over any time soon. Most are fine with HD given the option to pay extra to get 4k.
It is hard to buy a not 4k tv now, finding 1080p models takes work. So even if they don't care about 4k they end up buying one. Plus it isn't like the existing TV user base really cared about 3D movies. 3D usage was low and more people are replacing 3D capable TVs with non 3D capable TVs.
http://4k.com/news/4k-tvs-are-popula...ve-them-18306/
"in 2016, 24% were 4K models (those 10 million units sold). In 2017, the expectation of 40% of all units sold to be 4K models is pretty much guaranteed to pan out or even be surpassed."

Only 8 new 3D movies have been released this year. Last year there were 21. http://www.blu-ray.com/movies/search...leasetimestamp
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post #8 of 40 Old 04-27-2017, 08:10 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by darkangelism View Post
It is hard to buy a not 4k tv now, finding 1080p models takes work. So even if they don't care about 4k they end up buying one. Plus it isn't like the existing TV user base really cared about 3D movies. 3D usage was low and more people are replacing 3D capable TVs with non 3D capable TVs.
http://4k.com/news/4k-tvs-are-popula...ve-them-18306/
"in 2016, 24% were 4K models (those 10 million units sold). In 2017, the expectation of 40% of all units sold to be 4K models is pretty much guaranteed to pan out or even be surpassed."

Only 8 new 3D movies have been released this year. Last year there were 21. http://www.blu-ray.com/movies/search...leasetimestamp
Yes, I mentioned lack of 1080p TV's at some point in my previous post, we're not there yet, but some day 4K will be it as far as what's available to buy, but 4k content is more like 3D than it is HD: it's niche, I only know one person that has a 4K TV so far personally. There are still SD cable channels which outnumber HD channels. 4K isn't going away but it's not like it's taking over either. 3D can't be compared to 4K because it's a different viewing experience. 4K can be 3D too. They just need to make it happen.

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post #9 of 40 Old 04-27-2017, 08:16 AM
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I absolutely love 3D, and buy the 3D disc every time I have that option. I think having 3D available at home makes the movie a little more special. With all of the 3D is dead talk over the past year or so, I'm not sure it'll survive, but I certainly hope it will.
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post #10 of 40 Old 04-27-2017, 08:41 AM
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I have never even seen a 3d movie.

Just 'cause you're right doesn't mean I'm wrong
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post #11 of 40 Old 05-01-2017, 01:33 AM
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I have never even seen a 3d movie.
You don't know what you're missing.
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post #12 of 40 Old 05-03-2017, 05:43 PM
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Just got an LG OLED77G6 and now, for the first time, we really enjoy 3D. In the past our only way to watch 3D was with an LCOS projector. The image was always too dim, and the glasses were seldom charged up, so it just wasn't worth the effort.

Now we're all fired up, and 3D is on the top of our viewing list. The passive glasses are lighter and no charging needed. Actually more enjoyable than in the theaters. Hopefully the new big panels will restore interest in 3D.

-Roger
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post #13 of 40 Old 08-04-2017, 07:30 PM
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I just bought the oled65c6p and the 3D is amazing on it. I actually prefer 3D to 4K uhd with HDR for example Kong skull island, Ghost in the shell, and all other recent releases. I want 3D to continue so I have been buying all the great 3D blu Rays I can get for good price or have been importing them from Amazon uk. I must have bought over 50 3D movies in the last couple weeks anticipating my purchase of new tv.

I just wish they would have implemented 3D better like lg has done with passive glasses. Experience is so amazing. I can't only imagine what 77" would be like.

I have been saving up for 77" or bigger Oled in hopes that they go down in price with 3D still but all that changed when TVs are no longer supporting it and had to get it before it was too late.
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post #14 of 40 Old 08-04-2017, 07:41 PM
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Originally Posted by darkangelism View Post
it won't die in theaters, but home use might since there is no 4k 3d standard
Also a new beginning: finally not seen as marketing ploy, pushed by these manufacturers who are always so readily assuring everyone about how they can't do anything wrong - wholeheartedly underpinning the "companies behave like psychopaths" meme.
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In the movie “The Corporation” they use the personality diagnostic checklist DSM-IV to test corporations for pathological symptoms:

Callous disregard for the feelings of others. Check.

Incapacity to maintain enduring relationships. Check.

Reckless disregard for the safety of others. Check.

Deceitfulness: repeated lying and conniving others for profit. Check.

Incapacity to experience guilt. Check.

Failure to conform to social norms with respect to lawful behaviors. Check.
Result? Corporations are Psychopaths.

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post #15 of 40 Old 08-29-2017, 09:21 AM
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I absolutely love 3D, and buy the 3D disc every time I have that option. I think having 3D available at home makes the movie a little more special. With all of the 3D is dead talk over the past year or so, I'm not sure it'll survive, but I certainly hope it will.
I have no doubts 3D will survive here. In fact it is expanding from flat screen 3D to adding 360 VR 3D. Plenty of room to grow in VR. While I agree that flatscreen 3D in the home makes for the best experience, the industry R&D is now focused on improving 360VR to include 3D. This will have an entirely new way of experiencing stories and movies. 3D is just a part of the experience as it is a part of the movie making business.

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post #16 of 40 Old 08-29-2017, 02:36 PM
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Originally Posted by gridleak View Post
Just got an LG OLED77G6 and now, for the first time, we really enjoy 3D. In the past our only way to watch 3D was with an LCOS projector. The image was always too dim, and the glasses were seldom charged up, so it just wasn't worth the effort.

Now we're all fired up, and 3D is on the top of our viewing list. The passive glasses are lighter and no charging needed. Actually more enjoyable than in the theaters. Hopefully the new big panels will restore interest in 3D.
I'm at the crossroads between a 77" OLED LG (passive 3D), and a VPL-VW675ES Sony projector (active 3D) with a 118" screen. 3D is a big deal for me and my son. I can't see 3D on the projector, because they don't keep the glasses on site.
I don't mind charging glasses, and I get the technical differences between passive and active, but I don't have the actual first hand experience. Can you tell me more about your story between the two? Would a better projector help? Or is it the active technology that makes it too dark compared to passive?
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post #17 of 40 Old 08-29-2017, 03:00 PM
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I'm at the crossroads between a 77" OLED LG (passive 3D), and a VPL-VW675ES Sony projector (active 3D) with a 118" screen. 3D is a big deal for me and my son. I can't see 3D on the projector, because they don't keep the glasses on site.
I don't mind charging glasses, and I get the technical differences between passive and active, but I don't have the actual first hand experience. Can you tell me more about your story between the two? Would a better projector help? Or is it the active technology that makes it too dark compared to passive?
The OLED 77 with passive 3D will blow the VPL-Vw675es out of the water. You will not get true blacks with the projector, and active 3D can cause more eye strain and flicker can occur as well while you are watching it. the OLED will not only allow for a more relaxed 3D viewing, but the OLED will create the 3D effect to perfection like no movie theater really can. Also, since 3D is 1080p only, the smaller 77" inch screen will be sharper than the 118" when viewing the same material depending on how close or far you sit. If it was me, I would get the 77" and experience a one of a kind experience watching 3D.

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post #18 of 40 Old 08-29-2017, 09:34 PM
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Originally Posted by AudioQuestions View Post
I'm at the crossroads between a 77" OLED LG (passive 3D), and a VPL-VW675ES Sony projector (active 3D) with a 118" screen. 3D is a big deal for me and my son. I can't see 3D on the projector, because they don't keep the glasses on site.
I don't mind charging glasses, and I get the technical differences between passive and active, but I don't have the actual first hand experience. Can you tell me more about your story between the two? Would a better projector help? Or is it the active technology that makes it too dark compared to passive?
This is the size difference between a 77" and 118" image.

it depends on what effect you are going for, there are a number of very good 3D projectors out there including the VW675.






I have several 3D projectors on a 142" screen and even the biggest TV's look small in comparison.


77" vs. 142"

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post #19 of 40 Old 08-29-2017, 09:37 PM
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I'm trying to preorder this movie in Amazon, and the 3D description keeps disappearing in the cart. I don't want the 2D only, nor the hassle of returning it if it is 2D only.
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post #20 of 40 Old 08-29-2017, 09:45 PM
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Zombie10K, I know it's a huge difference. I was leaning to the 118" 16:9 or the ~150" 2.35:1 version which keeps the same height between the 16:9 and 2.35:1.
Without the experience it's hard to order the projector and screen. I have some apprehensions: 3D active tech, ambient light, ALR screens.

Then there is the argument do I prefer washed out black or a perfect reflection of every light source (interior and exterior) behind me. Sunlight peeping through the window blinds ruins a movie with a reflection inside an otherwise dark room.
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post #21 of 40 Old 08-29-2017, 10:31 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tomtastic View Post
Micheal Bay vows to keep 3D alive in the best way possible by shooting native 3D. I'll admit I'm a little burned out on Transformers but I like his attitude on shooting these with the traditional 2 camera system. I was worried he went converted with using the new Red Dragon but it seems the A camera is still the IMAX 3D rig.

With the decline of 3D in the flat panel market it's good to see there are directors still wanting 3D for their movies.


Transformers: The Last Knight releases June 23.
As far as directors supporting 3D, James Cameron is another director who is also a 3D enthusiast I suppose.
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post #22 of 40 Old 08-29-2017, 10:56 PM
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Like I said, Bay actually thought 3D was a gimmick. But James Cameron (they are apparently good friends) lent him his rig (the one Cameron invented to film Avatar) to play with. From then Bay became a convert - what was a gimmick turned into a new dimension of filmmaking for Bay. He pushed it through to use it on Transformers 2 even though it was originally planned for 2d only.

From what I can tell, Bay still uses the Cameron rig to film.

(And for what it's worth, apparently Bay has a unique filmmaking style that goes beyond Bayhem. It's enough that other directors have tried and failed to copy it because they never capture Bay's intent for the shot.)
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post #23 of 40 Old 08-29-2017, 11:31 PM - Thread Starter
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He pushed it through to use it on Transformers 2 even though it was originally planned for 2d only.

From what I can tell, Bay still uses the Cameron rig to film.

(And for what it's worth, apparently Bay has a unique filmmaking style that goes beyond Bayhem. It's enough that other directors have tried and failed to copy it because they never capture Bay's intent for the shot.)
Actually, it was Transformers 3, I think for 3D. Cameron got him started, right. He used his rigs and Sony F23's and F35 cameras and some smaller cameras for the wing suit jumpers on their helmets. Only about 60 percent of Dark of the Moon was shot in 3D, then 15 percent digital which is native 3D, the rest was 2D and converted. Then with Age of Extinction he went with the IMAX Digital 3D rig. It's a fixed interaxial system compared to the Fusion rigs and I believe he used the IMAX rig again for the Last Knight.

Interview with Micheal Bay (in response to shooting 2D or 3D): "Well, that's the gamble. But what's happening right now is there are so many 3D movies that are done badly, that are just post-converted so quickly, that you can tell some movie audiences are just getting turned off to the 3D because it's bull**** 3D."

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post #24 of 40 Old 08-30-2017, 12:49 AM
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Originally Posted by AudioQuestions View Post
I'm at the crossroads between a 77" OLED LG (passive 3D), and a VPL-VW675ES Sony projector (active 3D) with a 118" screen. 3D is a big deal for me and my son. I can't see 3D on the projector, because they don't keep the glasses on site.
I don't mind charging glasses, and I get the technical differences between passive and active, but I don't have the actual first hand experience. Can you tell me more about your story between the two? Would a better projector help? Or is it the active technology that makes it too dark compared to passive?
My previous experience with 3d was with two JVC DILA projectors (RS60 and then an RS57), and an Elite Pro 70x5 LCD panel, all with active glasses. Projection was to a 120" diagonal Stewart screen with a gain of 1.3. The RS60 had lamp problems and got dim very quickly. The RS57 was a slight improvement in terms of brightness, but both projectors exhibited noticeable crosstalk. The LCD panel was brighter, with less crosstalk, but seemed to produce a lot of eye strain, probably from the flicker. My wife and I just gave up on 3d.

When I upgraded to 4k, I decided on the G6 version simply because we had a lot of 3d BD's and I didn't want to loose all 3d capability. Just for kicks we tried Avatar and it blew us away -- no crosstalk, very bright, no flicker, and very little eye fatigue. I've started chasing after 3d BD's and we watch 3d a couple times a month. I have also upgraded the projector to RS620, and 4k hdr on that thing is pretty delicious, so 3d has serious competition in our house. The RS620 does not come with glasses or emitter, so I haven't tried 3d, but with our past experience with active glasses, it's just not worth the effort.

-Roger
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post #25 of 40 Old 08-30-2017, 01:47 AM
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My previous experience with 3d was with two JVC DILA projectors (RS60 and then an RS57), and an Elite Pro 70x5 LCD panel, all with active glasses. Projection was to a 120" diagonal Stewart screen with a gain of 1.3. The RS60 had lamp problems and got dim very quickly. The RS57 was a slight improvement in terms of brightness, but both projectors exhibited noticeable crosstalk. The LCD panel was brighter, with less crosstalk, but seemed to produce a lot of eye strain, probably from the flicker. My wife and I just gave up on 3d.

When I upgraded to 4k, I decided on the G6 version simply because we had a lot of 3d BD's and I didn't want to loose all 3d capability. Just for kicks we tried Avatar and it blew us away -- no crosstalk, very bright, no flicker, and very little eye fatigue. I've started chasing after 3d BD's and we watch 3d a couple times a month. I have also upgraded the projector to RS620, and 4k hdr on that thing is pretty delicious, so 3d has serious competition in our house. The RS620 does not come with glasses or emitter, so I haven't tried 3d, but with our past experience with active glasses, it's just not worth the effort.
I researched for months before I bought the LG LM7600, a passive 3D set as I knew the active ones had all the problems you described. I'm just miffed at LG and puzzled as to why they jumped off the 3D train when their set offered imo the perfect 3D experience with passive technology. It's not like there is no future 3D content out there as studios are still producing them for home viewing. I mean, it could be LG WOW factor if they kept the 3D at least for OLED sets as other tv manufacturers don't carry them anymore.
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post #26 of 40 Old 08-30-2017, 12:20 PM
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. The RS620 does not come with glasses or emitter, so I haven't tried 3d, but with our past experience with active glasses, it's just not worth the effort.
The 3D on the RS620 is going to be an substantial improvement over the RS60 and RS57 for brightness and x-talk.

This $50 kit includes the RF transmitter and 1 pair of Xpand 105 RF glasses if you want to see the improvements.

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B009ZW7SR2?psc=1
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post #27 of 40 Old 08-30-2017, 04:34 PM
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The 3D on the RS620 is going to be an substantial improvement over the RS60 and RS57 for brightness and x-talk.

This $50 kit includes the RF transmitter and 1 pair of Xpand 105 RF glasses if you want to see the improvements.

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B009ZW7SR2?psc=1
I sense my arm being slightly twisted. I'll give it a try my friend.

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post #28 of 40 Old 08-30-2017, 08:03 PM
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I sense my arm being slightly twisted. I'll give it a try my friend.
I'd like your opinion too.
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post #29 of 40 Old 08-30-2017, 08:05 PM
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Originally Posted by gridleak View Post
I sense my arm being slightly twisted. I'll give it a try my friend.
As Zombie mentions, crosstalk has definitely made a BIG improvement since the 40/50/60. I own the 45 still and owned the RS40 as well and had a RS520 here for 3 months. I don't remember the 40/45 3d brightness (I use a DLP now for 3d and haven't fired up 3d on the 45 in years) so I cant say how much better the 520 is there, but I can say it wasn't any brighter than my Benq W7000 DLP, but I wasn't expecting it to be. I will say though that flicker has made ZERO improvement since the 40/50/60. Not sure how much flicker bothers you on the 60, but if this is an issue just be aware it is no better on the new models unfortunately.

I do agree that you should give 3d another shot on the 620 though and decide for yourself. Dark 3d films where flicker doesn't rear it's ugly head are excellent on the 520/620, but bright 3d will probably disappoint if your sensitive to flicker on your 60. Not trying to be a downer, just trying to keep your expectations in check. I was a bit disappointed with 3d on the 520 due to flicker if you cant tell after all the hype I read on the newer JVCs, but hopefully you fair better.
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post #30 of 40 Old 09-06-2017, 06:08 PM
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Originally Posted by AudioQuestions View Post
I'm at the crossroads between a 77" OLED LG (passive 3D), and a VPL-VW675ES Sony projector (active 3D) with a 118" screen. 3D is a big deal for me and my son. I can't see 3D on the projector, because they don't keep the glasses on site.
I don't mind charging glasses, and I get the technical differences between passive and active, but I don't have the actual first hand experience. Can you tell me more about your story between the two? Would a better projector help? Or is it the active technology that makes it too dark compared to passive?
I own several 3D projectors (120" screen) and two E6 OLEDs. The OLEDs produce the very best 3D I've seen and a 77" would be very nice. Just turn off the lights and move your seat closer for an immersive experience.

As a very nice bonus the LG OLEDs have very good 2D to 3D conversion if you customize it -- go into 3D settings and change point-of-view to minus 6 or minus 7 and depth to plus 14 or plus 15. I've now lost all interest in 4K.

OLED = ghost-free very bright passive 3D with infinite contrast -- it doesn't get any better than this!
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Last edited by Deja Vu; 09-06-2017 at 06:17 PM.
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