IMAX 3D to Dwindle in North America - Page 2 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #31 of 303 Old 07-28-2017, 02:19 PM
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Originally Posted by MCharlie View Post
My #1 son bought a high dollar 4k TV, and candidly, I just don't (can't!) see $4000.00 worth of difference from my $1800.00 3D HD TV.

That said, I love 3D. If the movie I want to see is available in 3D, I buy it. (I don't go to theaters for movies, the seats are uncomfortable, and I can't pause the movie when I want to get a snack, or when I go make room for more liquid refreshments! .

I told my wife that I need to buy a 65 to 84" 3D tv now before they become extinct.

So, needless to say, I am very sad to see 3D to go the way of Sony's BetaMax tape!

MC
For the most part I agree with you; however some producers don't know what to do with 3D.
Cars< life of PI, Superman didn't look much better than 2D. I saw a Harry Potter film in IMAX 3D and was really disappointed , especially at $18.00 a ticket.
I was going to but an LG 3D OlED before they were gone; but now I'm thinking I'll wait to see what the other options that come available are.
I'll enjoy my plasma 3D from Oppo 103!
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post #32 of 303 Old 07-28-2017, 02:19 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by javanpohl View Post
I'm curious as to what the reference for "Avengers Infinity Wars Parts 1 and 2" using the specified camera is as there are no longer any announced movies using those names. Marvel dropped those titles last year.
This is from The Hollywood Reporter's story about IMAX nixing 3D, posted two days ago:

"Marvel's Avengers: Infinity War – Parts 1 and 2, from directors Joe Russo and Anthony Russo, will use the Imax/Arri 2D digital camera to capture the entire two-part installment of the global franchise. The move marks the first time a Hollywood feature film will be shot only using Imax cameras and its exclusive aspect ratio."

Here's a piece about Infinity War on Digital Spy, posted last week:

http://www.digitalspy.com/movies/the...-need-to-know/

From Marvel's own website:

http://marvel.com/movies/movie/223/a...ity_war_part_1

It seems the title is far from dropped.
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post #33 of 303 Old 07-28-2017, 02:20 PM
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Originally Posted by vtanious View Post
3D seen on a good screen is a wonderful experience. Watching movies or documentaries that were shot in 3D and viewed on a good screen (LG Oled TV) is not to be missed. I remember show casing both 3D and HDR to friends and family on the OLED LG 55e6p and seeing their reaction. While all react favorably to HDR (once I go in the long explanation of what it is), their jaw just drops when watching good 3D.

In the early days of 3d after Avatar, James Cameron pointed out that commercial theaters and the studios will kill 3D by showing movies in theaters that are poorly equipped and shooting movies in 2d and then converting them to 3d. Not to mention the added ticket price whereby it became a novelty.

3D has depth while HDR has image quality.

Do yourself a favor and buy these discs while you still can.

David Attenborough: The 3D Collection [Blu-ray]
Step Up (Blu-ray 3D + Blu-ray + DVD + Digital Copy)
James Cameron's Avatar / Titanic Blu-ray 3D Double Pack
Thanks for the tip on the David Attenborough 3D collection. Looks like there is a Volume 2 as well.

I agree with your take on 3D. I have an LG OLED as well, and the 3D is absolutely stunning. Both my wife and I wear glasses, but we also have RealD and IMAX 3D clipons that we use (and take to the theater when we go), and they solve the "2 pairs of glasses" problem.

When watching "The Walk" in 3D, you actually get a sense of being near the edge of the top of the World Trade Center while the characters are moving around setting up the tightrope cable.

As others have said, dropping 3D IMAX will only make me go to the theater less than I do, as that is one of the main draws for us.

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post #34 of 303 Old 07-28-2017, 02:21 PM
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Right. Consumers hate 3D because of glasses yet are completely willing to spend thousands to strap a VR headset to their face. Clowns.

3D is better than 4K. You have 2 eyes, use them.

Unfortunately for IMAX, they have been struggling for relevance since they started deluting their brand and providing horrendous support to their theater partners.

IMAX 3D is the best there is. It's bright and beautiful. Removing that is just one less thing that differentiates them.

Congratulations IMAX, you have now fully equated yourself to more expensive tickets for nothing more than a big screen and loud sound.
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post #35 of 303 Old 07-28-2017, 02:23 PM
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Originally Posted by MCharlie View Post
My #1 son bought a high dollar 4k TV, and candidly, I just don't (can't!) see $4000.00 worth of difference from my $1800.00 3D HD TV.

That said, I love 3D. If the movie I want to see is available in 3D, I buy it. (I don't go to theaters for movies, the seats are uncomfortable, and I can't pause the movie when I want to get a snack, or when I go make room for more liquid refreshments! .

I told my wife that I need to buy a 65 to 84" 3D tv now before they become extinct.

So, needless to say, I am very sad to see 3D to go the way of Sony's BetaMax tape!

MC

3D has been dying for years , it's the longest Hollywood death of all time, still a work in progress apparently . With well over 60 movies in queue into 2018 , the death will continue and most of us who fully enjoy the increased immersion will have plenty of options for years to come . There are 43, 3D titles listed for 2017 alone, IMax is not going to signal the death of 3D nor will any other single franchise . Maybe when humans stop seeing stereoscopically ( aka 3D) and desire to see movies like they see in real then we will loose the desire . I like hearing sound in stereo, one dimensional sound doesn't work for me . When 3D is glasses free it will be more easier to accept, even now with the right set up as it is in my theatre and with descent content, 3D is simply incredible. Avatar is only going to help put the technology in a better place, looking forward to it .


There may be a death, probably IMAX not 3D. I don't bother any cinemas actually, all movies are better at home. I see the movie Franchisees as being on the rocks to be honest, people just have it better at home .
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post #36 of 303 Old 07-28-2017, 02:26 PM
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Originally Posted by Exist_To_Resist View Post
There are several issues that plagued the 3D industry, and you can chalk them all up to laziness.
When you direct a 3D film it has to be directed more like a stage play vs current method used to entertain the ADHD audience.
In 3D you have to use long shots, and slow pans, you can not zoom and pan move from shot to shot the likes of a Michael Bay film.
You can chalk that mistake to the lazy directors and Hollywood in general.

Then you have the issue with the fact that most 3D movies weren't even filmed in 3D but the 3D was added in post production.
This resulted in bad depth and many people failed to see the merit of a 3D film.
Also a lot of 3D post production work resulted in a film with convergence issues.
Again, chalk it up to the lazy studios.

Seeing a proper movie in 3D is a treat, and a 2D rendition of it is lack luster compared to some films out there.
The funny thing is this technology will make a full circle in about 5 years time and it will be back in the theater.
Glasses free TV is on it's way to a theater near you, it will be used in displays and advertisements.
Sorry to disappoint those naysayers, but 3D is going dormant, taking a break, and then it's coming out swinging again.
Have you seen Titanic in 3D? Wasn't directed for 3D, and it's a conversion. The result is spectacular. Same for Jurassic Park, and even Wizard of Oz.

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post #37 of 303 Old 07-28-2017, 02:27 PM
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Originally Posted by Dreamliner View Post
Right. Consumers hate 3D because of glasses yet are completely willing to spend thousands to strap a VR headset to their face. Clowns.
That fact that you compare 3D to what one experiences inside of the HTC Vive or Oculus Rift shows your ignorance on the topic. They aren't even comparable. Those who have taken the step into VR are willing to put up with 'Generation one' of the fit of these devices for an experience that utterly transforms what you would see on a flat screen. It is a completely different experience. Using Google Earth alone in VR is worth the investment.

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post #38 of 303 Old 07-28-2017, 02:31 PM
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The other reason is converted 3D is being used on 90 percent (or more) of the movies released these days. 3D came back with a bang when Avatar released in 2009 because it was visually stunning in 3D, because it was filmed the old fashioned way: in native 3D. Converted 3D has gotten better but it will never look as good as native.
Not that I've seen. Directors that have shot native 3D go to converted once they realize they can control the exact depth of an object in the frame. Why else do so many go through the expense of post conversion now?
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post #39 of 303 Old 07-28-2017, 02:31 PM
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Originally Posted by studio3d View Post
Really? Citing 2 movies from the early days of conversion is the best you can do to bolster your argument? And actually passive 3D is much better than active... especially 4k passive. Yes, you can't be higher or lower than the screen, but in line there is very little ghosting. My Sony 3D 4K is amazing. Maybe you know more than I about 3D, I've only been doing it since 1980, most of that professionally.
My 2016 65" E6P OLED from LG which supports 3D is also amazing.
TV 3D is better than the HFR 3D in the theater too, a lot less issues with headaches due to the added frame rates.
I went out and bought it because it was going to be the last OLED with 3D for a while.

Some amzing 3D movies I own.
Hobbit Series, Avatar, Pacific Rim, Kong Skull Island... to name a few.
I have quite a few in my collection.
Your mileage may vary based on experience though.
I'd rather have 3D than HDR. again personal preference.

OLED is a game changer.
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post #40 of 303 Old 07-28-2017, 02:32 PM
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Originally Posted by PeterTHX View Post
Not that I've seen. Directors that have shot native 3D go to converted once they realize they can control the exact depth of an object in the frame. Why else do so many go through the expense of post conversion now?
Cost, the almighty dollar.

OLED is a game changer.
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post #41 of 303 Old 07-28-2017, 02:33 PM
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My local AMC theater got Spiderman Homecoming in only 2D IMAX. I saw it at another IMAX theater that was showing it in 3D. I called my local theater to see what happened and they said they were getting lots of complaints about it and ticket sales were noticeably down. 2 weeks later, they were able to get the 3D IMAX DCP...which is 2 weeks too late.

IMAX knows 3D helps sell tickets. Their incompetence will be their demise. Dolby Cinema is proof that IMAX has weakened themselves in the premium theater experience market.
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post #42 of 303 Old 07-28-2017, 02:33 PM
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Originally Posted by studio3d View Post
Have you seen Titanic in 3D? Wasn't directed for 3D, and it's a conversion. The result is spectacular. Same for Jurassic Park, and even Wizard of Oz.
Same with Kong: Skull Island, but those are a few exceptions, not the rule.
Have you seen Ghost in the Shell in 3D? It is terrible.
Most post 3D conversions are bad and lack depth and have convergence issues.

OLED is a game changer.
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post #43 of 303 Old 07-28-2017, 02:34 PM
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Cost, the almighty dollar.
As I was saying the better post conversions are *more* expensive than shooting native.
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post #44 of 303 Old 07-28-2017, 02:42 PM
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Originally Posted by PeterTHX View Post
As I was saying the better post conversions are *more* expensive than shooting native.
How great would it be if every blockbuster was shot completely on those new digital IMAX 3D cameras.

Nolan films are better served on 70mm IMAX though, but lets count the amount of real IMAX screens...shall we?
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post #45 of 303 Old 07-28-2017, 02:42 PM
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My 2016 65" E6P OLED from LG which supports 3D is also amazing.
TV 3D is better than the HFR 3D in the theater too, a lot less issues with headaches due to the added frame rates.
I went out and bought it because it was going to be the last OLED with 3D for a while.

Some amzing 3D movies I own.
Hobbit Series, Avatar, Pacific Rim, Kong Skull Island... to name a few.
I have quite a few in my collection.
Your mileage may vary based on experience though.
I'd rather have 3D than HDR. again personal preference.
You might be interested in my online 3D movie review... largest review of 3D movies on the planet.
http://www.studio3d.com/pages2/3d_movie_ratings.html

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post #46 of 303 Old 07-28-2017, 02:44 PM
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blaming low ticket sales in 3D?! seriously? its not like an imax ticket costing 25$us had anything to do with poor sales right?

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post #47 of 303 Old 07-28-2017, 02:45 PM
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Same with Kong: Skull Island, but those are a few exceptions, not the rule.
Have you seen Ghost in the Shell in 3D? It is terrible.
Most post 3D conversions are bad and lack depth and have convergence issues.
Kong: Skull Island is modern, so I'm guessing there was 3D in mind during production (unlike the ones I cited). Have yet to see it or Ghost... still catching up on 3D Blu Rays...

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post #48 of 303 Old 07-28-2017, 02:48 PM
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Originally Posted by Scott Wilkinson View Post
This is from The Hollywood Reporter's story about IMAX nixing 3D, posted two days ago:

"Marvel's Avengers: Infinity War – Parts 1 and 2, from directors Joe Russo and Anthony Russo, will use the Imax/Arri 2D digital camera to capture the entire two-part installment of the global franchise. The move marks the first time a Hollywood feature film will be shot only using Imax cameras and its exclusive aspect ratio."

Here's a piece about Infinity War on Digital Spy, posted last week:

http://www.digitalspy.com/movies/the...-need-to-know/

From Marvel's own website:

http://marvel.com/movies/movie/223/a...ity_war_part_1

It seems the title is far from dropped.
... this is just getting confusing.
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post #49 of 303 Old 07-28-2017, 02:49 PM
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I think that 3D is being killed, rather than dying. Do you notice how every time there is something negative about 3D, writers on A/V websites jump on the news quickly and spread it quickly with big strong headlines, such as this one (no offense, Scott). However, when there is something positive about 3D or a 3D movie, you don’t hear about it unless you stumble on it by accident.

For example, people who own Ghost in the Shell are reporting that the 3D version is far superior to the 4K version. I have both versions, and I agree with this wholeheartedly – the 3D version completely blows away the 4K UHD version on my OLED sets. A few days ago (I haven’t checked today) the 3D version of that movie was #8 seller on Amazon.com, the 4K UHD version was #25. Nobody reports this – you don’t hear instances of when 3D outsells 4K, but you darn sure hear it if 4K outsells 3D. It seems that there is a spin put on the news in regard to 3D, and you won’t hear the good news, but you won’t be able to avoid the bad news. (Kong: Skull Island is another new release where the 3D version is superior to the 4K version –compare them side by side if you haven’t on an OLED or top of the line LCD).

I found it amusing also when over 15,000 people signed the petition to LG, begging them to keep at least one 3D model in their lineup moving forward. I was in communication with the creator of that petition and he had to really work and beg authors of A/V sites to cover any news about the petition. And when they did, most of them put a negative stance on it instead of reporting on the thousands and thousands of positive comments that people were leaving on the petition in support of 3D. These comments were coming from directors, museums that use 3D televisions in displays, schools, and of course thousands upon thousands of regular folks who just happened to be 3D fans. Now, the thing is, with so little publicity no one really knew about the petition unless they happened to be someone who heard about it from a friend or who happened to read one of the few web stories about it. So, it is likely that for every 1 person that signed it, there are many more that would have supported it, had they known what was happening.

In contrast, when the petition to LG to support Dolby Atmos appeared, A/V sites and authors jumped on it like it was the most important thing in the world. Already “over 1000 people” have signed it! Now, that petition still hasn’t met 2,000 signatures but not terribly long ago I had a story pushed to my phone about it, making it seem like it was the most important thing in the world for Dolby Atmos to be added, and encouraging everyone to support the petition. I never had a story pushed to my phone about the 3D petition! Yet, almost 15 times as many people were in support of the 3D petition as opposed to the Dolby Atmos position.

It is just my opinion (and we all have one), but I just don’t see how anyone thinks that a 2D 4K HDR image can beat the immersive factor of a good 3D image, even a 1080P 3D image. I’ve compared almost every release that has come out so far in both 3D and 4K on my LG OLED, and the 3D wins every time. Every single person I’ve demoed 3D and 4K to agree as well, the 3D image is more realistic, more immersive, and draws you into the movie like a flat image simply cannot do.

I believe that when manufacturers finally realized that 3D was a niche market, and that not EVERYONE wanted to watch EVERYTHING in 3D, they quickly came out with 4K HDR, leaving 3D specs out to try to move everyone to one format. That way, they could resell their entire catalog, yet again. Back off advertising of 3D, pull all 3D technology so that even discs you currently own cannot be played on future televisions, and force everyone into 4K – that way, they hope to push the fans that truly prefer 3D into 4K and resell to them yet again. Of course, by the time they kill 3D entirely and try to cram a not-very-well planned 4K HDR agenda down everyone’s throats, we can expect 8K to follow on its heels.

It’s a darn shame – there is plenty of room for both 3D and 4K in the market. At least I’ll be saving some money, because I bought almost every 3D release to date – I definitely will NOT be doing that for 4K.
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I like passive 3D in theaters with my OWN comfortable glasses, not those horrible disposable RealD glasses they hand out. I like IMAX 3D, also with my home glasses that I bought from eBay last year. I actually bought 4 of those (only sold on Amazon by an enthusiast who has been getting them made on a small scale and selling them online) for not cheap so disappointed to say the least that they may be obsolete soon. I used them for Rogue One several times and it was so awesome.

At home, on my Epson 5040UB I don't enjoy (active) 3D because the experience doesn't look theatrical, is not comfortable physically (even with the expensive Epson active glasses) or visually and generally is too dark. The exception is animation (mostly Pixar with a few Disney titles plus Peanuts the Movie and the Lego movies). I have every Pixar movie and all the 3D ones, including some that are Region B (like Ratatouille and Frozen), and they are all pretty good to great. I love the 3D conversion of old hand painted animation movies like the Little Mermaid too.

Back to the point, though, I'm disappointed that IMAX will be moving away (and presumably getting rid of completely) 3D. Kind of surprising since they had been rolling out the new laser 3D at some IMAX theaters in the past couple years. We all know Nolan loves IMAX and hates 3D but hopefully that doesn't mean that IMAX phases it out completely. Guess I better list those IMAX glasses on ebay soon.
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post #51 of 303 Old 07-28-2017, 02:55 PM
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Originally Posted by Fox1966 View Post
It is just my opinion (and we all have one), but I just don’t see how anyone thinks that a 2D 4K HDR image can beat the immersive factor of a good 3D image, even a 1080P 3D image. I’ve compared almost every release that has come out so far in both 3D and 4K on my LG OLED, and the 3D wins every time. Every single person I’ve demoed 3D and 4K to agree as well, the 3D image is more realistic, more immersive, and draws you into the movie like a flat image simply cannot do.
I double dip on every single movie that's available in UHD and 3D and in almost all cases, end up preferring the 3D version for the sense of immersion it provides on many of these titles.




We have a real IMAX theater within an hour from here, saw many 3D movies including Jame's Cameron's Ghosts of the Abyss back in 2005.

No chance of a re-visit to spend that kind of $$ on a 2D presentation.
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post #52 of 303 Old 07-28-2017, 02:57 PM
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Originally Posted by Exist_To_Resist View Post
Same with Kong: Skull Island, but those are a few exceptions, not the rule.
Have you seen Ghost in the Shell in 3D? It is terrible.
Most post 3D conversions are bad and lack depth and have convergence issues.
I very much beg to differ with your opinion about Ghost in the Shell 3D. What kind of tv did you watch the 3D version on? Or did you just see it in a theater? 3D in theaters can vary wildly, depending on their equipment.

Go to some other forums, read what people are saying that have seen both the 4K and 3D versions. The 3D version is strongly preferred by people that have seen both - and it is outstanding. We watched it last night on OLED set, and I felt like I was there. Everyone that watched it with me thought it was beautiful.
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Originally Posted by zombie10k View Post
I double dip on every single movie that's available in UHD and 3D and in almost all cases, end up preferring the 3D version for the sense of immersion it provides on many of these titles.




We have a real IMAX theater within an hour from here, saw many 3D movies including Jame's Cameron's Ghosts of the Abyss back in 2005.

No chance of a re-visit to spend that kind of $$ on a 2D presentation.
Thank you for sharing this! It's wonderful to meet a kindred spirit!
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post #54 of 303 Old 07-28-2017, 03:06 PM
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Give me a Holo-Deck! I get why 3D is failing, but technology either moves forwards or reverts back to what works better. I don't think its quite over for 3D gaming yet... Never been a fan of it seeing a good movie in 3D, because to me it had too many limitations versus benefits.
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post #55 of 303 Old 07-28-2017, 03:10 PM
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I am here and going to give my 2 cents. Glasses free 3D already exists and most of you already have seen it and even held in your hands, and most of you already own some of the products, what is it I am talking about ? = Lenticular slip covers for your movies. now try to picture a 52 foot wide and 25 feet high lenticular movie screen, that's your glasses free 3D. in other words it is not gonna work in our lifetime. in order for 3D to work, your eyes have to be lied to, one at a time. there will be no pop out 3D effects because you aren't wearing glasses. the reason it works now is you are wearing glasses, so the 3D image looks like it is coming at you. if you aren't wearing glasses, well, not gonna work, go ahead, try rebutting this, when Avatar 2 comes out, it will not be in glasses free 3D. most likely just 2D.

lets see, Wonder Woman just surpassed Guardians of the Galaxy pt.2 as the biggest movie of the summer. actually if you add up all the movies that came out so far, someone explain how they are losing money? lol

here is something that may interest you about 3D, they are releasing Terminator 2, it is going in theatres in 3D and most likely 2D as well. right after that they are releasing Terminator 2 in 4K, 3D, 2D and I believe SD........however, the 3D version is only for sale in the UK, not here in USA.
same thing happened with Resident Evil Final chapter, The Wall and Underworld Blood Wars. they all had 3D release in theatres, but movie studios only let the overseas distributors get the 3D movies. in the words, or tone of John Wick, Yeah, I think I am Pissed lol

there is one more important thing I would like to add.
has to do with selling and demoing 3D TV's...........the only stores that were demoing 3D tvs were electronics stores like best buy. Walmart, Target, to name a few didn't, not even sure they sold 3D tvs lol
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post #56 of 303 Old 07-28-2017, 03:17 PM
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Done right, 3D rules

My experience has been that 3D at home on a 130 inch screen with all factors tweaked with excellent software is stunning. The scale of the screen relative to the room creates the illusion of being able to step into the scene.

That just doesn't happen in the theater. The screen is large but far away, the image is dull and contrast is poor. Colors suffer. The 3D depth can be OK but often isn't.

Every so often I put Avatar on the wall and I still marvel at the image, the depth, the ambience. The deep image plays into the surround sound field and the effect is immersive and convincing.

The glasses are dorky -- OK -- but I don't have to look at myself wearing them and I don't spend much time looking at my guests because, well -- I'm watching the dang movie.

I hope 3D holds on in some fashion, and Cameron may well have an Ace up his sleeve but only time will tell.
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post #57 of 303 Old 07-28-2017, 03:29 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zombie10k View Post
We have a real IMAX theater within an hour from here, saw many 3D movies including Jame's Cameron's Ghosts of the Abyss back in 2005.

No chance of a re-visit to spend that kind of $$ on a 2D presentation.
I've brought it up to IMAX and the theaters directly multiple times: IMAX and theaters in general, need to replay more movies. During the middle of the week, or if a movie is performing poorly, they need to rotate in another title from that same studio. Could you imagine if every week they had a "Throwback Thursday" or something where they replayed great movies from the last decade or so?

Last year, AMC & IMAX had 'space week' where they played the IMAX space documentaries during the day (like Hubble 3D & Space Station 3D) then every night they played a different movie: Gravity, Interstellar, Star Trek 09, Star Trek Into Darkness, Star Trek Beyond, The Martian, etc. I bought the unlimited pass and was there every single day that week.
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post #58 of 303 Old 07-28-2017, 03:53 PM
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I look for movies in non-3D theaters. It just doesn't do anything for me, the disadvantages outweigh the benefit. The main disadvantage I see as reduced color saturation, followed by being dimmer. Although I can see the 3D effect it just doesn't add to the experience and is mostly an annoying distraction that takes away more from the story than it adds. 3D on an LG OLED is another story, it looks great.

3D movie tech is improving, the last iteration just didn't work at all for me. This current tech works for me but isn't compelling enough to seek out in the theater. Maybe the next iteration will finely be meaningful to me.

I think HDR and WCG in the theater is more important than 3D at this point.

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post #59 of 303 Old 07-28-2017, 04:12 PM
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The problem with Imax is that they have allowed any theatre to call it Imax with a screen size well deficient to what Imax used to be all about. In our local area one cinema has installed Imax and projects it on a screen about 15-20 larger than the other screens in the complex. That is not Imax!! When they get back to what Imax is really all about, their sales will increase also.
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post #60 of 303 Old 07-28-2017, 04:17 PM
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The studios ruined 3-D by troweling out FAKE crap year after year.

If it wasn't shot in 3-D, it shouldn't be shown in 3-D or advertised as 3-D.

Once again, media conglomerates work overtime to ensure their own extinction.
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