Panasonic 65 inch VT50 release date and price? - Page 9 - AVS Forum
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Old 05-15-2012, 07:57 PM
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Originally Posted by TommmyJ View Post

Someone at a smaller A/V dealer in town says that end of June is what he is seeing at his store. I have mostly heard middle to end of May other places. Hopefully not end of June though for Canada.

Was in Future Shop today and the 65GT50s have arrived, which is a good sign as they were scheduled to arrive this week. The 65VT50s are shown to be en route to hit the warehouse next week. 60 units are coming into the eastern warehouse, not sure how many are destined to the central or western locations. I don't work for the company, just keeping tabs on the movements of my ordered 65VT50 - one of those 60 currently on a road trip .
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Old 05-15-2012, 07:58 PM
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After calibrating the basic settings on both using the AVS HD 709:


I still feel as though the image is crisper on the Samsung and has brighter whites and more vibrant colors. The detail in the darks is a lot better on the panasonic but I'm curious if its because the overall panel isn't as bright.
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Old 05-15-2012, 08:24 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by natetheskate View Post

After calibrating the basic settings on both using the AVS HD 709:


I still feel as though the image is crisper on the Samsung and has brighter whites and more vibrant colors. The detail in the darks is a lot better on the panasonic but I'm curious if its because the overall panel isn't as bright.

I'm so glad that it helped! As I suspected, Panasonic has some catching up to do with regards to factory settings. Not everyone can be expected to do a calibration. Either Samsung is at least doing some sort of "loose" calibration in the factory, or their variances between sets are much smaller. That said, it looks like you've taken one big step towards getting your VT50 dialed in.

As for white, when comparing against an LED LCD, pure white will almost always look better on the LED LCD. Conversely, black will almost always look better on the plasma. I owned the D-series 8000 Samsung LED and like you had issues with corner clouding, as well as a host of other issues. And like you, I was blown away at how crisp the set looked and how pure and clean white looked. It's a tradeoff of technology, at this point in time. The white on the VT50 will never look as good as the ES8000, and the black/shadow detail, as well as black uniformity on the ES8000 will never look as good as the VT50. At the same time, the UNES8000's "pop" to a certain extent is likely to be considered "inaccurate". I found that my UND8000 was extremely blue, which next to a properly calibrated set would make the other set look too warm/red. Of course beauty is in the eye of the beholder, but just keep this in mind when comparing them side by side as your eye can do funny things when trying to compare white balance. I think that was somewhat close to the point that Rogo was trying to make.

However, the white can still definitely be cleaned up some by a good calibration. You've already forked over a ton of cash for the VT50, so I understand that it might be hard to stomach paying for a calibration, but after using it for ~100 hours or so I would go ahead and just have it done. The great thing about the VT50 (vs. the GT50 or the ST50) is that it has all of the fine detailed controls for a calibrator to properly set the white balance. You cannot do this on your own without equipment and software, so don't even think of playing with the WB controls unless you take that dive. If you're interested in calibrating yourself, see the link in my sig. It details my first experience with calibrating, ironically on the Samsung UND8000 LED LCD that I returned. Ultimately, however, to get the best result you'd want it calibrated by a pro (like D-Nice or ChadB).

Let us know what you decide.

Calibration Equipment:

Meters: X-rite i1 Pro 2, X-rite i1 Display Pro

Software: Spectracal Calman DIY, ControlCAL

 

Televisions:

Panasonic TC-P65VT50 (currently own)
Samsung UN55D8000 (returned) Calibration and Settings Thread

 

Plasma IR Removal:

Post 1 - Post 2 - Post 3

 

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Old 05-15-2012, 08:33 PM
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Look at how overblown the whites are. There's so much white detail being clipped. There's no doubt an LCD will be capable of getting brighter, but you probably have the backlight and contrast cranked on the LCD. If that's what you like, then LCD is for you.

If both were calibrated to ~45fL, which is bright enough for almost any viewing environment, they should look far more similar than that. If you're going for maximum brightness and brighter whites, then go for an LCD.
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Old 05-15-2012, 08:39 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tempest261 View Post

I'm so glad that it helped! As I suspected, Panasonic has some catching up to do with regards to factory settings. Not everyone can be expected to do a calibration. Either Samsung is at least doing some sort of "loose" calibration in the factory, or their variances between sets are much smaller. That said, it looks like you've taken one big step towards getting your VT50 dialed in.

As for white, when comparing against an LED LCD, pure white will almost always look better on the LED LCD. Conversely, black will almost always look better on the plasma. I owned the D-series 8000 Samsung LED and like you had issues with corner clouding, as well as a host of other issues. And like you, I was blown away at how crisp the set looked and how pure and clean white looked. It's a tradeoff of technology, at this point in time. The white on the VT50 will never look as good as the ES8000, and the black/shadow detail, as well as black uniformity on the ES8000 will never look as good as the VT50. At the same time, the UNES8000's "pop" to a certain extent is likely to be considered "inaccurate". I found that my UND8000 was extremely blue, which next to a properly calibrated set would make the other set look too warm/red. Of course beauty is in the eye of the beholder, but just keep this in mind when comparing them side by side as your eye can do funny things when trying to compare white balance. I think that was somewhat close to the point that Rogo was trying to make.

However, the white can still definitely be cleaned up some by a good calibration. You've already forked over a ton of cash for the VT50, so I understand that it might be hard to stomach paying for a calibration, but after using it for ~100 hours or so I would go ahead and just have it done. The great thing about the VT50 (vs. the GT50 or the ST50) is that it has all of the fine detailed controls for a calibrator to properly set the white balance. You cannot do this on your own without equipment and software, so don't even think of playing with the WB controls unless you take that dive. If you're interested in calibrating yourself, see the link in my sig. It details my first experience with calibrating, ironically on the Samsung UND8000 LED LCD that I returned. Ultimately, however, to get the best result you'd want it calibrated by a pro (like D-Nice or ChadB).

Let us know what you decide.

Another well written and helpful post! Thanks so much for taking the time to explain those subtle differences between the 2! It makes total sense seeing them side by side and I can easily see the trade off. as for getting a pro calibration done I always planned on doing that on whatever TV I settled on however we just went under contract on a house and will likely be moving in the next 2-3 months so I figure its a waste of money to have it done here only to move and have all the viewing conditions change (townhouse with windows everywhere to a regular house).

I'm now strongly considering keeping it. It looks so much better now and so much better at night since I have so many windows. The new house has a lot darker living room and it will be wall mounted so I think it would work better in the new place.

Thanks again!
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Old 05-15-2012, 09:17 PM
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DrRx, awesome news. Amazon.ca has the 65gt50 now too. I am getting anxious and almost ready to snag a gt but will hold off I guess. Thanks for the update.
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Old 05-15-2012, 09:18 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by natetheskate View Post

Another well written and helpful post! Thanks so much for taking the time to explain those subtle differences between the 2! It makes total sense seeing them side by side and I can easily see the trade off. as for getting a pro calibration done I always planned on doing that on whatever TV I settled on however we just went under contract on a house and will likely be moving in the next 2-3 months so I figure its a waste of money to have it done here only to move and have all the viewing conditions change (townhouse with windows everywhere to a regular house).

I'm now strongly considering keeping it. It looks so much better now and so much better at night since I have so many windows. The new house has a lot darker living room and it will be wall mounted so I think it would work better in the new place.

Thanks again!

Glad I could help! Yes, if you're moving I'd definitely wait. You want to wait until ~100+ hours of usage anyhow before getting it calibrated.

I'm glad that you're leaning on keeping the set. Keep in mind that this is the set that several calibrators in this forum are salivating for. It is probably the closest thing to "reference", short of a Sharp Elite LED-LCD, that we'll see in a while. Even still, the VT50 will have much better viewing angles than the Sharp Elite, and the Elite still exhibits blooming artifacts, all the while costing a fortune. You have a great set on your hands, and you'll likely be extremely pleased with it once a calibrator gets to work on it.

Calibration Equipment:

Meters: X-rite i1 Pro 2, X-rite i1 Display Pro

Software: Spectracal Calman DIY, ControlCAL

 

Televisions:

Panasonic TC-P65VT50 (currently own)
Samsung UN55D8000 (returned) Calibration and Settings Thread

 

Plasma IR Removal:

Post 1 - Post 2 - Post 3

 

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Old 05-15-2012, 09:48 PM
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Not to mention the Sharp Elite has color issues and DSE. I would rather have a VT50 than a Sharp Elite. The VT50 has a close enough contrast ratio that the positives outweigh the negatives. I wouldn't even consider the Sharp Elite to be the best LCD... I'd give that to the Sony HX929. Even LG's upcoming full-array local dimming model might surpass it for a fraction of the price.
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Old 05-15-2012, 10:03 PM
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Originally Posted by rahzel View Post

Not to mention the Sharp Elite has color issues and DSE. I would rather have a VT50 than a Sharp Elite. The VT50 has a close enough contrast ratio that the positives outweigh the negative. I wouldn't even consider the Sharp Elite to be the best LCD... I'd give that to the Sony HX929. Even LG's upcoming full-array local dimming model might surpass it for a fraction of the price.

There are owners reporting DSE on the VT50 as well as the Panasonic rep over at HDJ admitting that there is dse due to the Kuro like filter they are using. I have a client who is on his second unit with DSE.

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Old 05-15-2012, 11:49 PM
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Nate, return the plasma. So long as you keep viewing both at the same time, you will believe the LCD is better. What you believe is all that matters.

There is no difference in HDMI cables. If you can see the picture without visible dropouts or sparklies, the cable is working at 100%. No other cable will display a better version of that picture. You're simply wrong if you think there is a better digital cable than one that is already working. (Oh, and plasma didn't die because of logistics problems, nor does OLED ship in big boxes because it comes from Korea.)
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Old 05-16-2012, 05:15 AM
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Old 05-16-2012, 06:28 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by natetheskate View Post

After calibrating the basic settings on both using the AVS HD 709:

I still feel as though the image is crisper on the Samsung and has brighter whites and more vibrant colors. The detail in the darks is a lot better on the panasonic but I'm curious if its because the overall panel isn't as bright.

It appears you have contrast too high on the Samsung. Your photos say to me you're losing a lot of detail.

Under the railing with the shot of the girl, look at the reflection shown in the marble floor from the hand railing, plasma vs the LCD.

Then the shot /w johnny dep. look at the white floor tiles. All of them are missing details.

That "punchy" look you're talking about is from contrast being set to high and it's real bright. But it's also dropping a lot of details to make that happen. There's a ton more examples if you look at the shots you took more.

Of course it's possible your pictures just aren't showing what it's like in person. Hard to say much more without seeing how the gamma and color is performing with a meter on both sets. There's also some interesting color differences between the photos.

Anyway, good luck with your decision. I would drop the contrast down on the LCD until it comes closer to matching the plasma so your eyes can compare other aspects of the picture quality besides sheer brightness. The eyes are easily fooled... almost everyone thinks the punchy pic looks better at 1st, but after awhile most realize it's not balanced out right.

-SiGGy
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Old 05-16-2012, 06:45 AM
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Originally Posted by SiGGy View Post

It appears you have contrast too high on the Samsung. Your photos say to me you're losing a lot of detail.

Under the railing with the shot of the girl, look at the reflection shown in the marble floor from the hand railing, plasma vs the LCD.

Then the shot /w johnny dep. look at the white floor tiles. All of them are missing details.

That "punchy" look you're talking about is from contrast being set to high and it's real bright. But it's also dropping a lot of details to make that happen. There's a ton more examples if you look at the shots you took more.

Of course it's possible your pictures just aren't showing what it's like in person. Hard to say much more without seeing how the gamma and color is performing with a meter on both sets. There's also some interesting color differences between the photos.

Anyway, good luck with your decision. I would drop the contrast down on the LCD until it comes closer to matching the plasma so your eyes can compare other aspects of the picture quality besides sheer brightness. The eyes are easily fooled... almost everyone thinks the punchy pic looks better at 1st, but after awhile most realize it's not balanced out right.

+1... Very well said.
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Old 05-16-2012, 07:17 AM
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Originally Posted by SiGGy View Post

It appears you have contrast too high on the Samsung. Your photos say to me you're losing a lot of detail.

Under the railing with the shot of the girl, look at the reflection shown in the marble floor from the hand railing, plasma vs the LCD.

Then the shot /w johnny dep. look at the white floor tiles. All of them are missing details.

That "punchy" look you're talking about is from contrast being set to high and it's real bright. But it's also dropping a lot of details to make that happen. There's a ton more examples if you look at the shots you took more.

Of course it's possible your pictures just aren't showing what it's like in person. Hard to say much more without seeing how the gamma and color is performing with a meter on both sets. There's also some interesting color differences between the photos.

Anyway, good luck with your decision. I would drop the contrast down on the LCD until it comes closer to matching the plasma so your eyes can compare other aspects of the picture quality besides sheer brightness. The eyes are easily fooled... almost everyone thinks the punchy pic looks better at 1st, but after awhile most realize it's not balanced out right.

Makes sense. I know that neither of them are dialed in to the optimal settings. I was more following Tempist's direction and attempting to get the brightness and basic settings to somewhat of a standard on both for a better comparison. That being said I now realize how important getting a good calibration is and how easily eyes can be fooled. The Samsung is getting picked up today so no more side by sides (rogo's will be happy lol). I am calling Amazon today and am going to keep the VT50 and continue to read more about the calibrations I can do at home until I move and have a professional come do it (hopefully there is a good calibrator near Orlando, FL).

I do have one more question, what is DSE?
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Old 05-16-2012, 08:10 PM
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A person can sell at what ever price they like when they are back ordered........

Amen....add shipping to provantage price and you have heckuva deal .

coz...

Shipping is over $600 .
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Old 05-16-2012, 10:29 PM
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Thanks DrRX ..... Good to know how you did it as I was wondering how you got them to price match

Yup, it can be a struggle with the pricing up in Canada.

Oh, did you buy their extended warranty?
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Old 05-16-2012, 11:07 PM
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Thanks DrRX ..... Good to know how you did it as I was wondering how you got them to price match

Yup, it can be a struggle with the pricing up in Canada.

Oh, did you buy their extended warranty?

They offered it to me, but I want to review it first. Apparently I can purchase it any time before delivery. What's your take??
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Old 05-18-2012, 08:39 PM
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Thanks for the update. Hopefully they land next week finally.
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Old 05-19-2012, 10:04 AM
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Hi, I am from Germany and I am waiting for my new 65vt50.

I returned three Sony 65hx925 because of banding, very good to See in Football.

So my hope is with the new 65vt50...............but now i read in German HiFi Forum a lot of comments with Banding with the size 55 or 50 inch.

In Germany there is no 65inch at the moment, so I would like to know if some owner of a 65vt50 from this Forum has Banding with Football?
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Old 05-19-2012, 03:37 PM
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Old 05-21-2012, 09:38 PM
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Ok Canadians this might be our week for the 65VT50. If anyone sees any stock or finds out any updates let us know. I will be bugging Visions for information tomorrow on my tv's whereabouts and I will do my rounds of phone calls to local shops. Thanks
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Old 05-22-2012, 12:08 AM
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Originally Posted by TommmyJ View Post

Ok Canadians this might be our week for the 65VT50. If anyone sees any stock or finds out any updates let us know. I will be bugging Visions for information tomorrow on my tv's whereabouts and I will do my rounds of phone calls to local shops. Thanks

yeah. I got a really good dealer that gets stuff pretty fast and for good prices. I'll post any update when he gets back to me.
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Old 05-22-2012, 02:26 PM
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Just talked to Visions and they said my 65VT50 should be in tomorrow but I can't get it delivered until Friday. So if they are in Saskatchewan tomorrow should be in other parts of the country tomorrow or this week as well.
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Old 05-22-2012, 04:32 PM
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My shop told me they're first off the dock and I'm getting the first one off the truck, lol. As soon as they email me I'll post the information.

I also called another dealer and they told me first or second week of June. I'm guessing their current orders are sold already...

Chris
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Old 05-22-2012, 07:03 PM
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I'm really hoping to get the call to pickup my tv this week I can't go another weekend of watching a 12 inch tube tv.
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Old 05-22-2012, 11:35 PM
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I'm really hoping to get the call to pickup my tv this week I can't go another weekend of watching a 12 inch tube tv.

I hope you get your VT50 soon! The museum from which you borrowed that tube TV is going to want it back soon to keep their antiquities collection intact .

Checked on my 65VT50 order at Future Shop tonite and it's still showing 60 sets in transit, none in warehouse yet.
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Old 05-23-2012, 04:12 AM
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Please take price talk and where-to-buy to the Plasma deals forum up top. Thanks.

larry

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Old 05-23-2012, 08:20 AM
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Please take price talk and where-to-buy to the Plasma deals forum up top. Thanks.

larry

Sorry ... this is the "Panasonic 65 inch VT50 release date and price" thread, so these comments are fully approriate. We are discussing when it will become available in Canada (not yet!!) and where, so as help members get access to this set in a timely manner.
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Old 05-23-2012, 08:24 AM
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Sorry ... this is the "Panasonic 65 inch VT50 release date and price" thread, so these comments are fully approriate. We are discussing when it will become available in Canada (not yet!!) and where, so as help members get access to this set in a timely manner.

You may want to pick your battles better.

Mike

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Old 05-23-2012, 08:35 AM
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Just discuss availability for Canada, but don't post prices and this will be fine.
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