The East Coast TV's Experiment - Page 7 - AVS Forum
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post #181 of 618 Old 09-04-2013, 03:07 PM
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so does this prove that East Coast TV is legit or was the poster just lucky?...I've heard lots of 2nd hand negative comments about ECTV but never a 1st hand experience from a skeptical yet ultimately satisfied consumer...so what is the moral of this story?

I think you have your answer. If you're not comfortable with a little ambiguity around quality of service and support you should probably stay away. Also, be prepared to have to babysit the process more than usual to ensure that your TV arrives in a timely manner. You will also not pay the exact price listed on their site and will have to endure an after-the-fact hard push for additional add-ons like express shipping and insurance.

If you are comfortable with the above, feel free to order from them. If not, you may want to stick with your more typical dealers.

Obviously, I work for a competitor, but I think my statement is honest and unbiased.
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post #182 of 618 Old 09-04-2013, 03:15 PM
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I think you have your answer. If you're not comfortable with a little ambiguity around quality of service and support you should probably stay away. Also, be prepared to have to babysit the process more than usual to ensure that your TV arrives in a timely manner. You will also not pay the exact price listed on their site and will have to endure an after-the-fact hard push for additional add-ons like express shipping and insurance.

If you are comfortable with the above, feel free to order from them. If not, you may want to stick with your more typical dealers.

Obviously, I work for a competitor, but I think my statement is honest and unbiased.

in the end all I really care about is that the retailer is legit and not a scam...as long as I get the item I purchased in a timely manner then everything else is irrelevant to me
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post #183 of 618 Old 09-04-2013, 04:00 PM
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in the end all I really care about is that the retailer is legit and not a scam...as long as I get the item I purchased in a timely manner then everything else is irrelevant to me

I think you'll probably get your TV. I wouldn't call it a scam in the sense that you won't even get a TV. I will say that they are a dishonest and illegitimate dealer though. If they want to offer the lowest price, that's fine, but at least post your actual price up front and don't rely on a sales call after the transaction is closed out to up-sell your customers. From what I understand though, if you want it in a timely manner, you'd better pay for the express shipping on top of the insurance.

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post #184 of 618 Old 09-04-2013, 04:06 PM
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but at least post your actual price up front and don't rely on a sales call after the transaction is closed out to up-sell your customers

it's easy to just say No...I still don't understand how they are able to undercut every other retailer (sometimes by a significant amount) but as long as they are legit then I guess it doesn't matter...I'm still a bit hesitant to use them but after reading some positive reviews I feel more comfortable taking a chance
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post #185 of 618 Old 09-04-2013, 06:43 PM - Thread Starter
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it's easy to just say No...I still don't understand how they are able to undercut every other retailer (sometimes by a significant amount) but as long as they are legit then I guess it doesn't matter...I'm still a bit hesitant to use them but after reading some positive reviews I feel more comfortable taking a chance

That's really the issue. Some people can't trust themselves to say no I guess.

Don't get me wrong, they push hard- especially on the warranty, but it's not that hard to just say no.

They make their margins on mounts, cables, full price "white glove" and extended warranties. People like us are not the norm; they're doing just fine.
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post #186 of 618 Old 09-04-2013, 08:10 PM
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And hope you don't discover an issue a day or two after delivery. If EC was so damn great we all would buy from them, yet nearly no one on this forum does rolleyes.gif

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post #187 of 618 Old 09-04-2013, 08:24 PM
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That's really the issue. Some people can't trust themselves to say no I guess.

Don't get me wrong, they push hard- especially on the warranty, but it's not that hard to just say no.

They make their margins on mounts, cables, full price "white glove" and extended warranties. People like us are not the norm; they're doing just fine.

They are likely doing alright, but they are not raking in the dough. As someone who knows all of the margins involved, I can tell you that they are making VERY little on the TV's. The difference is that they probably don't have more than 2-3 employees. They don't take returns either, since they don't have an official relationship with the vendors that would allow them to send back broken TV's. That allows them to save a decent chunk of money. And yes, you can certainly say no, but why should you have to order the TV just to find out what your real price is?

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post #188 of 618 Old 09-04-2013, 08:28 PM - Thread Starter
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They are likely doing alright, but they are not raking in the dough. As someone who knows all of the margins involved, I can tell you that they are making VERY little on the TV's. The difference is that they probably don't have more than 2-3 employees. They don't take returns either, since they don't have an official relationship with the vendors that would allow them to send back broken TV's. That allows them to save a decent chunk of money. And yes, you can certainly say no, but why should you have to order the TV just to find out what your real price is?

I have to say 'no' repeatedly just the same at Best Buy. Been there. Done that.
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post #189 of 618 Old 09-04-2013, 08:28 PM
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And hope you don't discover an issue a day or two after delivery. If EC was so damn great we all would buy from them, yet nearly no one on this forum does rolleyes.gif

it seems like anyone who posts a positive review of ECTV automatically gets branded as a shill or fake but any negative review gets taken seriously...the no return policy is definitely scary though...that Randy Walters dude shouts down every positive review of ECTV any chance he gets...but it is a fair point as to why more people don't buy from them if they are so great...maybe perception is greater then reality
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post #190 of 618 Old 09-04-2013, 08:35 PM - Thread Starter
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And hope you don't discover an issue a day or two after delivery. If EC was so damn great we all would buy from them, yet nearly no one on this forum does rolleyes.gif

Weak argument that's already been beaten dead in this thread.

The link you provided and then removed is a prime example (http://www.avsforum.com/t/1487936/panasonic-tc-p65vt60-dead-7-blinking-led-internally-cracked-screen-warranty-denied-without-technician-inspection#post_23673086). The first set was damaged on arrival and the owner did not even open the box before signing for it.

The second set was either damaged in transit which should have been rejected upon inspection (a very obvious cracked screen). Or more likely, was damaged during installation/mount.

Could you unethically return your set that you broke to Best Buy? Yes, but I fail to see how that is a valid point.

Can you blame East Coast if you sign for a set saying it's perfectly fine? Either it is or it isn't. If it isn't, refuse delivery and they have to send you a new one.

Best Buy can surely afford to get screwed over by people who damage their own sets and try to return them. That's why they wanted +$800 more than ECTV when I was buying.
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post #191 of 618 Old 09-04-2013, 08:56 PM
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I have to say 'no' repeatedly just the same at Best Buy. Been there. Done that.

At least they're trying to sell you products, rather than "expedited" delivery and shipping "insurance". They're both trying to sell add-ons and pad their margin, but at least Best Buy is just trying to blatantly rip you off.

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post #192 of 618 Old 09-04-2013, 09:24 PM - Thread Starter
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At least they're trying to sell you products, rather than "expedited" delivery and shipping "insurance". They're both trying to sell add-ons and pad their margin, but at least Best Buy is just trying to blatantly rip you off.

If I purchased from BB I would have had a lighter wallet to the tune of +$800 before they even started trying to sell me anything and gotten nothing more for the trouble. But adding $140 to my price that I knew about beforehand (and anyone here should) is ECTV ripping me off. Best Buy was just being nice in wanting to take six times that amount.

You know when someone lies to your face to try and make a sale hoping you don't know better? I got that at BB and the never ending DirecTV nonsense.

Telling me $3399 was their special sale price (in a printed ad no less) is not trying to blatantly rip people off? Sure, ok.

It's all a game. Everyone plays a little differently, but it's a game just the same.

Some people play the game and get BB to price match against their policy. Some people aren't so lucky. Winners and losers.

Choose your own strategy- mine is just one option. There are others.
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post #193 of 618 Old 09-04-2013, 10:07 PM
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If I purchased from BB I would have had a lighter wallet to the tune of +$800 before they even started trying to sell me anything and gotten nothing more for the trouble. But adding $140 to my price that I knew about beforehand (and anyone here should) is ECTV ripping me off. Best Buy was just being nice in wanting to take six times that amount.

You know when someone lies to your face to try and make a sale hoping you don't know better? I got that at BB and the never ending DirecTV nonsense.

Telling me $3399 was their special sale price (in a printed ad no less) is not trying to blatantly rip people off? Sure, ok.

It's all a game. Everyone plays a little differently, but it's a game just the same.

Some people play the game and get BB to price match against their policy. Some people aren't so lucky. Winners and losers.

Choose your own strategy- mine is just one option. There are others.

Just because someone else is willing to go lower doesn't mean that everyone else is trying to rip you off. Also, a sale price is any price discounted below the regular price. If it was in an ad, it was probably a sale price. Just because a different store may have broken policy and gone deeper on the discount for another person doesn't mean that the store in question was trying to rip you off either. The problem is that you're trying to decide how much margin is "acceptable" for Best Buy(or anyone else) to make.

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post #194 of 618 Old 09-04-2013, 10:41 PM - Thread Starter
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Just because someone else is willing to go lower doesn't mean that everyone else is trying to rip you off. Also, a sale price is any price discounted below the regular price. If it was in an ad, it was probably a sale price. Just because a different store may have broken policy and gone deeper on the discount for another person doesn't mean that the store in question was trying to rip you off either. The problem is that you're trying to decide how much margin is "acceptable" for Best Buy(or anyone else) to make.

Sure, anyone can jack the regular price up and then list a "sale" price of exactly the same price all other big boxes are charging- doesn't make it less of a game.

It had never been priced higher. It will never be priced higher. That should tell you all you need to know about whether it is a legitimate "sale" price or just BS.

Questioning this is no "problem". It's my job as a consumer.

But I do suppose you and your employer would prefer less people pay attention.
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post #195 of 618 Old 09-05-2013, 10:17 AM
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Sure, anyone can jack the regular price up and then list a "sale" price of exactly the same price all other big boxes are charging- doesn't make it less of a game.

It had never been priced higher. It will never be priced higher. That should tell you all you need to know about whether it is a legitimate "sale" price or just BS.

Questioning this is no "problem". It's my job as a consumer.

But I do suppose you and your employer would prefer less people pay attention.

Actually, there are laws that require a certain percentage of discount if an item is advertised as "on sale". There are also laws that prevent retailers from artificially raising the "reg price" just so they can advertise a "sale" to skirt those laws. Best Buy follows all of these laws. What model in particular are you talking about? And when was this?

Also, my signature is clear about my opinions being my own. Do they mesh with my employer in this instance? Probably. But I assure you that I do not blindly defend their every action and am not doing so in this case. I just happen to oppose the idea that every big box retailer is out to screw their customers, like I get the impression you do.

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post #196 of 618 Old 09-05-2013, 11:28 AM
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Weak argument that's already been beaten dead in this thread.

The link you provided and then removed is a prime example (http://www.avsforum.com/t/1487936/panasonic-tc-p65vt60-dead-7-blinking-led-internally-cracked-screen-warranty-denied-without-technician-inspection#post_23673086). The first set was damaged on arrival and the owner did not even open the box before signing for it.

The second set was either damaged in transit which should have been rejected upon inspection (a very obvious cracked screen). Or more likely, was damaged during installation/mount.

Could you unethically return your set that you broke to Best Buy? Yes, but I fail to see how that is a valid point.

Can you blame East Coast if you sign for a set saying it's perfectly fine? Either it is or it isn't. If it isn't, refuse delivery and they have to send you a new one.

Best Buy can surely afford to get screwed over by people who damage their own sets and try to return them. That's why they wanted +$800 more than ECTV when I was buying.

I quickly removed the link you have enjoyed using to get on your box about because it was not something relevant to this discussion and no retailer would or should be expected to take a return of a customer damaged display. Good job because I edited that post immediately after it went up when I realized the link was included.

Weak argument? Seriously? People talk with their wallet and yes, failure of most displays occurs early in their life (actually true for most AV equipment), so having the ability to return it to where you bought it from is a big plus and a GIANT red flag when a retailer doesn't allow you do so. Sorry sir your two minutes is up and you did have a chance to plug it in. Name a single respectable retailer who has a no return policy? We know you like EC and had a good experience which is great. However, the number of negative experiences posted on this forum and elsewhere far outweigh the positive ones and to continue to recommend them as if they are God's gift to retailing is irresponsible to those who only see a price a few hundred less than Amazon, Paul's, Cleveland TV or BB.

I think there are a few of us who will continue to post about EC, Abe's of Maine and Powerseller NYC in hopes that those who consider doing business with them will do their homework first and understand the risks involved from buying from them. Not everyone has the happy ending you seem to imply is more common than it actually is. Peace out.

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post #197 of 618 Old 09-07-2013, 07:38 AM - Thread Starter
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Actually, there are laws that require a certain percentage of discount if an item is advertised as "on sale". There are also laws that prevent retailers from artificially raising the "reg price" just so they can advertise a "sale" to skirt those laws. Best Buy follows all of these laws. What model in particular are you talking about? And when was this?

Also, my signature is clear about my opinions being my own. Do they mesh with my employer in this instance? Probably. But I assure you that I do not blindly defend their every action and am not doing so in this case. I just happen to oppose the idea that every big box retailer is out to screw their customers, like I get the impression you do.

This was around the timeframe of the beginning of the thread (and this set, 64F8500). For months every single authorized seller had a list price of $3399, it was MAP (presumably) and stayed that way from day one up until very recently. Best Buy had a flyer that week with the F8500 listed, and had this big "special sale" price listed of... $3399 just like everyone else- you may as well consider it MSRP, as that is how it was treated by most everyone. The manager at the store tried to convince me it was a sale price and a good deal as well when he wasn't budging from it. At all.

Conversely, you at some point have to realize that every internet reseller is not out to screw their customers- or they'd stop having them eventually. And that certainly happens sometimes.

There's nothing confusing about what ECTV does. They lure many people in with the lowest price on the internet (just google the model numbers for sets like these and you get a sponsored ad with the price usually), and then they easily make profitable margins by hard selling extras. Most people are convinced and some even appreciate package "deals" of cables, wall mounts, extended warranties and full price white glove upgrades. None the wiser, and honesty, still come out ahead of their local Best Buy's full price and sales tax where they'd likely get sold on wall mounts, cables and extended warranties just the same!

It's all more alike than it is different, I feel. That's really what I've been hinting at this whole time.
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I quickly removed the link you have enjoyed using to get on your box about because it was not something relevant to this discussion and no retailer would or should be expected to take a return of a customer damaged display. Good job because I edited that post immediately after it went up when I realized the link was included.

Weak argument? Seriously? People talk with their wallet and yes, failure of most displays occurs early in their life (actually true for most AV equipment), so having the ability to return it to where you bought it from is a big plus and a GIANT red flag when a retailer doesn't allow you do so. Sorry sir your two minutes is up and you did have a chance to plug it in. Name a single respectable retailer who has a no return policy? We know you like EC and had a good experience which is great. However, the number of negative experiences posted on this forum and elsewhere far outweigh the positive ones and to continue to recommend them as if they are God's gift to retailing is irresponsible to those who only see a price a few hundred less than Amazon, Paul's, Cleveland TV or BB.

I think there are a few of us who will continue to post about EC, Abe's of Maine and Powerseller NYC in hopes that those who consider doing business with them will do their homework first and understand the risks involved from buying from them. Not everyone has the happy ending you seem to imply is more common than it actually is. Peace out.

Exactly. That is why it should be discussed. It's the same tired point brought up over and over, yet you can't find a good example of it actually happening once- much less consistently like you make it sound.

Find me one example where someone was denied warranty coverage having bought their set from an unauthorized reseller who did not take returns.

I never said I like EC. This was a simple experiment, and it confirmed my hunch. Nearly everyone who has something bad to say about EC is using pure speculation, rumors, parroting someone else doing the same, or has something to gain from it.

I don't know anything about Abe's, Powerseller, or anyone else. I can't speak for those and I won't. I only have experience with ECTV, and am comfortable and justified in having an actual experienced, informed opinion about them.

It would be infinitely more helpful to everyone if more people did the same.
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post #198 of 618 Old 09-07-2013, 11:42 AM
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This was around the timeframe of the beginning of the thread (and this set, 64F8500). For months every single authorized seller had a list price of $3399, it was MAP (presumably) and stayed that way from day one up until very recently. Best Buy had a flyer that week with the F8500 listed, and had this big "special sale" price listed of... $3399 just like everyone else- you may as well consider it MSRP, as that is how it was treated by most everyone. The manager at the store tried to convince me it was a sale price and a good deal as well when he wasn't budging from it. At all.

Conversely, you at some point have to realize that every internet reseller is not out to screw their customers- or they'd stop having them eventually. And that certainly happens sometimes.

There's nothing confusing about what ECTV does. They lure many people in with the lowest price on the internet (just google the model numbers for sets like these and you get a sponsored ad with the price usually), and then they easily make profitable margins by hard selling extras. Most people are convinced and some even appreciate package "deals" of cables, wall mounts, extended warranties and full price white glove upgrades. None the wiser, and honesty, still come out ahead of their local Best Buy's full price and sales tax where they'd likely get sold on wall mounts, cables and extended warranties just the same!

[/B][/SIZE]

Therein lies the problem. So, legally speaking, it was a sale price. A sale price isn't invalidated just because many other retailers have the same sale price. So a few things you have to understand when it comes to Samsung pricing. They price at UMRP(Unilateral Minimum Retail Pricing). MAP is not even part of this conversation, as it would only serve to confuse things further. Samsung set's MSRP, and then tells dealers that they will pay them a set amount of money per TV sold if they want to offer a deal to their customers. Whatever this deal is becomes the new UMRP. If a dealer sells TV's below that price, they risk losing that funding, and eventually their ability to purchase TV's from Samsung. That is why most reputable dealers will not price their TV's below anyone else. This is also precisely why dealers like ECTV and Abe's are known NOT to be authorized dealers. $3399 WAS a sale price. It was advertised as such, and was a discount off of the regular price. You can certainly say that you don't consider it a "good" sale price. That is up to you. But to characterize the Best Buy associates as liars and to say that they were blatantly trying to rip you off is WAY off-base. They were doing their job by not discounting the TV further. Not all of them do their job, which is partially(I'm guessing) why you are pissed off. Well, I'm sorry. Your argument really leads me to believe you should be pissed off at Samsung, not at Best Buy. After all, what you are complaining about is an environment born out of their pricing policies. Just so that we're clear though, Sony, LG & Sharp also have the same policies.

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post #199 of 618 Old 09-07-2013, 11:53 AM
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Therein lies the problem. So, legally speaking, it was a sale price. A sale price isn't invalidated just because many other retailers have the same sale price. So a few things you have to understand when it comes to Samsung pricing. They price at UMRP(Unilateral Minimum Retail Pricing)

is UMRP something like a handshake agreement between retailers so as to not undercut anyone too much?...why does their need to be a UMRP?...retailers pay a certain discounted price for buying in bulk...they make a profit for any price over what they paid for...so if they want to drop the price below what they originally paid then all they are doing is effecting their bottom line...I think they should be allowed to do that if they want
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Originally Posted by TitusTroy View Post

is UMRP something like a handshake agreement between retailers so as to not undercut anyone too much?...why does their need to be a UMRP?...retailers pay a certain discounted price for buying in bulk...they make a profit for any price over what they paid for...so if they want to drop the price below what they originally paid then all they are doing is effecting their bottom line...I think they should be allowed to do that if they want

It's not an "agreement". It is a set of guidelines that Samsung puts out. Retailers can choose whether or not to follow them, given the consequences if they don't. So, in short, they are allowed to do that if they want. Samsung has a vested interest in keeping the retail prices higher, so that dealers make a profit. If dealers do not make a profit, then they don't buy more TV's, or they want a better deal on said TV's which reduces the manufacturer's profit. It is a complicated situation. I'm not arguing for, or against, UMRP. I think there are good arguments for both sides. I'm just trying to help explain how it works.

Though I am an employee of Magnolia Home Theater, the views and opinions I express on this forum are those of my own and not my employer.
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post #201 of 618 Old 09-07-2013, 07:58 PM
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I don't know anything about Abe's, Powerseller, or anyone else. I can't speak for those and I won't. I only have experience with ECTV, and am comfortable and justified in having an actual experienced, informed opinion about them.

It would be infinitely more helpful to everyone if more people did the same.
[/quote]

I will skip the giant text since I got out of grade school a while ago - all 3 are one in the same. Back to homework. As for negative experiences - do you choose to ignore the numerous posts from those who tried to do business with them. Have you googled those 3 dba's and read what comes out. So much for peace biggrin.gif

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post #202 of 618 Old 09-07-2013, 08:32 PM
 
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post #203 of 618 Old 09-07-2013, 09:21 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by smurraybhm View Post

I will skip the giant text since I got out of grade school a while ago - all 3 are one in the same

Abe's is the same as those other 2?...I've always been weary of Powerseller and ECTV but I thought Abe's might be legit
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post #204 of 618 Old 09-07-2013, 10:05 PM - Thread Starter
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I hadn't seen that either. I know a lot of sites use alternate names/domains to do more business, but I haven't seen the connection talked about anywhere. Any sources?

I'll ask again, and wait for an answer: Find me one example where someone was denied warranty coverage having bought their set from an unauthorized reseller who did not take returns.

I'm all for talking those into consideration, but I've yet to hear of one example? Anyone?
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post #205 of 618 Old 09-08-2013, 10:37 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nfraso View Post

I hadn't seen that either. I know a lot of sites use alternate names/domains to do more business, but I haven't seen the connection talked about anywhere. Any sources?

I'll ask again, and wait for an answer: Find me one example where someone was denied warranty coverage having bought their set from an unauthorized reseller who did not take returns.

I'm all for talking those into consideration, but I've yet to hear of one example? Anyone?

There probably aren't many examples, if any. But that doesn't really bolster your position. I don't think Samsung has ever claimed that they would not support the warranty on one of their products due to purchasing it at an unauthorized dealer. That said, they do give you another 3 months of coverage if you purchased at an authorized dealer. Not much, but it's something.

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post #206 of 618 Old 09-09-2013, 03:17 PM - Thread Starter
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You get the extra 3 months if you register the product online- it's just an incentive to get people to actually do it:




As far a lack of examples- I don't see the support for needing to purchase from a retailer who accepts returns if Samsung has/always will honor their warranty.

In-home auditioning is the only reason I can come up with, and I'm there are a few who gladly pay the premium to do that.

Other than that, it's no different on day 2 or 10 than it is on day 31 for someone buying from a seller who accepts returns for 30 days. That's what the warranty is for.

I really don't understand, we've been over this again and again in this thread.
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post #207 of 618 Old 09-09-2013, 06:18 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nfraso View Post

You get the extra 3 months if you register the product online- it's just an incentive to get people to actually do it:




As far a lack of examples- I don't see the support for needing to purchase from a retailer who accepts returns if Samsung has/always will honor their warranty.

In-home auditioning is the only reason I can come up with, and I'm there are a few who gladly pay the premium to do that.

Other than that, it's no different on day 2 or 10 than it is on day 31 for someone buying from a seller who accepts returns for 30 days. That's what the warranty is for.

I really don't understand, we've been over this again and again in this thread.

I take back what I said about Samsung never claiming to require purchase at an authorized dealer in order to receive warranty coverage. They now have this on their site.

Please note: Any Samsung product purchased from an unauthorized Samsung reseller may not be eligible for the benefits above, including the manufacturer’s 1 year limited warranty.

Now they may or may not enforce this, but it is there. Makes it a little more difficult to argue with them should they deny a claim for that reason.

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post #208 of 618 Old 09-09-2013, 06:45 PM
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Forgot to update this thread, but I did get the tv a few weeks ago. Took about 3 weeks from placing the order to finally get it, but it's perfect! No problems with the tv and its registered with Samsung for an additional 3 months on top of the standard 12 months. I never once worried about being ripped off, but I did get frustrated with the time it took for them to get it to me. AM Home Delivery is definitely no FedEx or UPS!

This was my first purchase through ECTV, and I would likely use them again in the future as long as I don't mind waiting a few weeks to save a big chunk of $$.
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post #209 of 618 Old 09-09-2013, 07:00 PM
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ECTV has excellent prices on the VT60 units, I was tempted but I'd really prefer the ZT60 which is getting a little out of hand price wise. My local BB just price matched ECTV's price on the 60" ST60, $1396.50 with free delivery. Delivery is 7 days from purchase.
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post #210 of 618 Old 09-09-2013, 08:29 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ironworker View Post

ECTV has excellent prices on the VT60 units, I was tempted but I'd really prefer the ZT60 which is getting a little out of hand price wise. My local BB just price matched ECTV's price on the 60" ST60, $1396.50 with free delivery. Delivery is 7 days from purchase.

so each individual Best Buy store has the option to price match ECTV?...I think I'll try my local Best Buy store in Manhattan
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