is the st60 line good for gaming and 3d or is there a better tv for that kind of stuff? - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 13 Old 11-16-2013, 03:04 PM - Thread Starter
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I am looking for a tv with a budget of 1000$ and i am looking for something that had 3d capability and is good with games.  I have been looking at the 50st50, but was thinking about getting a 55 inch or 60 inch instead.  I was wondering if it would be worth going larger for a "lesser" tv and lower price or should i just go with the 50st50?  This will be for my bedroom and i will be sitting about 7/8 feet back.  I saw some cheaper LG, Samsung and Vizio tv deals, but i'm not sure if they even come close to the performance of the Panasonic st60.

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post #2 of 13 Old 11-17-2013, 09:31 AM
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The ST60 really is on a league of its own when it comes to budget TVs, but its high input lag is really hampering its otherwise superior PQ.`I'm currently using a Panasonic S64, and I would say it's a semi-decent gaming solution. Input lag is very acceptable, but its poor motion performance (too much phosphor trails) really hurts otherwise great PQ. If you prioritize low input lag, decent motion performance, and 3D, I'd steer you towards the Samsung F5300/F5500 instead. While the Samsung's black level is no where near close, its motion handling is much better, has faster phosphor trails, and supports true 4:4:4 with no chroma subsampling unlike the S60/64. Both have decent input lags.
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post #3 of 13 Old 11-17-2013, 09:47 AM
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Originally Posted by KOF View Post

The ST60 really is on a league of its own when it comes to budget TVs, but its high input lag is really hampering its otherwise superior PQ.`I'm currently using a Panasonic S64, and I would say it's a semi-decent gaming solution. Input lag is very acceptable, but its poor motion performance (too much phosphor trails) really hurts otherwise great PQ. If you prioritize low input lag, decent motion performance, and 3D, I'd steer you towards the Samsung F5300/F5500 instead. While the Samsung's black level is no where near close, its motion handling is much better, has faster phosphor trails, and supports true 4:4:4 with no chroma subsampling unlike the S60/64. Both have decent input lags.

Do you have any examples of the phosphor trails?

Making me worried, I have an S64 on order and the inverse ghosting is the main reason I want to upgrade over my LCD.
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post #4 of 13 Old 11-17-2013, 05:45 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by KOF View Post

The ST60 really is on a league of its own when it comes to budget TVs, but its high input lag is really hampering its otherwise superior PQ.`I'm currently using a Panasonic S64, and I would say it's a semi-decent gaming solution. Input lag is very acceptable, but its poor motion performance (too much phosphor trails) really hurts otherwise great PQ. If you prioritize low input lag, decent motion performance, and 3D, I'd steer you towards the Samsung F5300/F5500 instead. While the Samsung's black level is no where near close, its motion handling is much better, has faster phosphor trails, and supports true 4:4:4 with no chroma subsampling unlike the S60/64. Both have decent input lags.

Thanks for the information.  I was also looking at VIZIO M551d-A2R  it is 998$ on amazon.  I am not sure how the Samsung UN55FH6030 stacks up against each other.

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post #5 of 13 Old 11-17-2013, 06:08 PM
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Do you have any examples of the phosphor trails?

Making me worried, I have an S64 on order and the inverse ghosting is the main reason I want to upgrade over my LCD.

I hate to be a bearer of bad news but I really do not like playing console games on this TV. At least I can tolerate 60 frames games. Yes, the phosphor trails bother me but at least the motion itself is decent, so I would say 60 frames games are still superior to the LCDs. But 30 fps games? OMG, it's really a tossup. The plasma judder is extremely severe. The previous LG plasma I owned also had decent but not great motion performance, but at least the phosphor lags were really fast. Yes, there was also double imaging on the LG, but it was much more bearable because of low phosphor lag. I never thought my biggest beef with a plasma would be with motion.

On the flip side, the PQ is phenomenal. I was greatly worried about the S64 lacking punch but it wasn't the case. The S64 actually has more pop than the LEDs "IN GAMES" which is a feat in itself. I was never disappointed with blacks at all. That's why I got so sad with its average motion performance.

EDIT : Oh, btw, this only applies to the games. For movies, it doesn't really bother me.
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post #6 of 13 Old 11-17-2013, 06:19 PM
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Originally Posted by KOF View Post

I hate to be a bearer of bad news but I really do not like playing console games on this TV. At least I can tolerate 60 frames games. Yes, the phosphor trails bother me but at least the motion itself is decent, so I would say 60 frames games are still superior to the LCDs. But 30 fps games? OMG, it's really a tossup. The plasma judder is extremely severe. The previous LG plasma I owned also had decent but not great motion performance, but at least the phosphor lags were really fast. Yes, there was also double imaging on the LG, but it was much more bearable because of low phosphor lag. I never thought my biggest beef with a plasma would be with motion.

On the flip side, the PQ is phenomenal. I was greatly worried about the S64 lacking punch but it wasn't the case. The S64 actually has more pop than the LEDs "IN GAMES" which is a feat in itself. I was never disappointed with blacks at all. That's why I got so sad with its average motion performance.

EDIT : Oh, btw, this only applies to the games. For movies, it doesn't really bother me.

Ah, I already have a 2010 Samsung Plasma, this S64 is actually going in the bedroom.

I'm not quite a huge motion snob, but the dark trails behind my Vizio kills some games for me.

I can't complain though, $485 shipped to me, doubt I'll get much better for that price.. any experience with the Vizio M series? That was about the only seemingly decent LED in my budget.
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post #7 of 13 Old 11-18-2013, 02:50 PM - Thread Starter
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the vizio just went down to 948 (with amazon prime) really considering it.

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post #8 of 13 Old 11-27-2013, 09:12 AM
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Originally Posted by Kurtangletn View Post

Ah, I already have a 2010 Samsung Plasma, this S64 is actually going in the bedroom.

I'm not quite a huge motion snob, but the dark trails behind my Vizio kills some games for me.

I can't complain though, $485 shipped to me, doubt I'll get much better for that price.. any experience with the Vizio M series? That was about the only seemingly decent LED in my budget.

Where did you find the S64 for 485 shipped?
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post #9 of 13 Old 11-27-2013, 10:34 AM
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Where did you find the S64 for 485 shipped?

Newegg refurbished, was like $509 and they had a coupon for 5% off Mobile Purchases... looks like it's out of stock now though, just a third party seller selling it for $850..

Check the "Great deals found" section and monitor the S64 thread, mine actually jsut arrived yesterday with a massive scratch on it, so I'm probably going to go with a F5300.. it's $530 right now at Best Buy and from what I gather motion is quite significantly better with the F5300.
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post #10 of 13 Old 12-08-2013, 10:55 PM
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Originally Posted by KOF View Post

I hate to be a bearer of bad news but I really do not like playing console games on this TV. At least I can tolerate 60 frames games. Yes, the phosphor trails bother me but at least the motion itself is decent, so I would say 60 frames games are still superior to the LCDs. But 30 fps games? OMG, it's really a tossup. The plasma judder is extremely severe. The previous LG plasma I owned also had decent but not great motion performance, but at least the phosphor lags were really fast. Yes, there was also double imaging on the LG, but it was much more bearable because of low phosphor lag. I never thought my biggest beef with a plasma would be with motion.

On the flip side, the PQ is phenomenal. I was greatly worried about the S64 lacking punch but it wasn't the case. The S64 actually has more pop than the LEDs "IN GAMES" which is a feat in itself. I was never disappointed with blacks at all. That's why I got so sad with its average motion performance.

EDIT : Oh, btw, this only applies to the games. For movies, it doesn't really bother me.

Commented in another thread as well, but updating since I finally got to game on the S64. My friend brought his Xbox One over and we played COD Ghosts and the NBA Live demo, so I'm assuming 60fps and 30fps respectively.

I did see some phosphor lags on brighter content in COD, nothing that is a deal-breaker for me though, it was pretty negligible and nowhere near as bad as you see on some of the youtube videos for other tv's.

I guess I'm the opposite though. I think the poor motion during movies is going to end up being a deal-breaker for me. This really sucks because I don't think the Sammy option is going to be as good of a picture and if I go that route I'm worried about ABL as well. I guess it has a cleaner picture though. Dithering is very high on the S64.

Cnet has both TV's as .004 for blacks, but everyone says the Panny is better. Bums me out because strong blacks and good shadow detail are probably the number one thing for good picture quality. Is the Sammy close in the real world? It also doesn't have the AR filter, but I mostly watch at night and can get some curtains.

Tradeoffs I suppose, but I'm really surprised that a plasma has a motion issue like this. Considering the Sammy or stepping up to the ST60, but how would the input lag be on that for a gamer that doesn't play competitively online, mostly single player and when online it's mostly just with my brother.
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post #11 of 13 Old 12-09-2013, 12:33 AM
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Originally Posted by aman74 View Post

Commented in another thread as well, but updating since I finally got to game on the S64. My friend brought his Xbox One over and we played COD Ghosts and the NBA Live demo, so I'm assuming 60fps and 30fps respectively.

I did see some phosphor lags on brighter content in COD, nothing that is a deal-breaker for me though, it was pretty negligible and nowhere near as bad as you see on some of the youtube videos for other tv's.

I guess I'm the opposite though. I think the poor motion during movies is going to end up being a deal-breaker for me. This really sucks because I don't think the Sammy option is going to be as good of a picture and if I go that route I'm worried about ABL as well. I guess it has a cleaner picture though. Dithering is very high on the S64.

Cnet has both TV's as .004 for blacks, but everyone says the Panny is better. Bums me out because strong blacks and good shadow detail are probably the number one thing for good picture quality. Is the Sammy close in the real world? It also doesn't have the AR filter, but I mostly watch at night and can get some curtains.

Tradeoffs I suppose, but I'm really surprised that a plasma has a motion issue like this. Considering the Sammy or stepping up to the ST60, but how would the input lag be on that for a gamer that doesn't play competitively online, mostly single player and when online it's mostly just with my brother.

I have the F8500 and it can't touch the VT and ZT on shadow detail. Not even in the same ballpark. The selling point for the F8500 is brightness, which doesn't do SQUAT for black level performance. The F8500 is overpriced for what it is, the F5300 is a much better value, but it won't touch Panny's blacks.
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post #12 of 13 Old 12-09-2013, 12:38 AM
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I have the F8500 and it can't touch the VT and ZT on shadow detail. Not even in the same ballpark. The selling point for the F8500 is brightness, which doesn't do SQUAT for black level performance. The F8500 is overpriced for what it is, the F5300 is a much better value, but it won't touch Panny's blacks.

I'm not looking at anywhere near the price range of a VT, ZT or 8500. The highest I could possibly go is the ST60.
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post #13 of 13 Old 12-09-2013, 02:13 AM
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I'm not looking at anywhere near the price range of a VT, ZT or 8500. The highest I could possibly go is the ST60.

Right, but I'm telling you that if the F8500's blacks aren't even that great, there is a definite difference between the Panny and Samsung black levels and greyscale. That's just the way it is. And the F5300 is a decent value if the Samsung's do in fact have better latency and ghosting and that matters to anyone. I'm not a gamer so I don't really care.
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