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post #1 of 18 Old 11-08-2015, 04:24 PM - Thread Starter
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Used Panasonic ST60's

I was wondering what is the going rate price these days for a used in good condition Panasonic ST60 with average usage(5000 hours) and no warranty. I found a few people selling them all quoting different prices.

I am a bit worried since if anything were to go wrong, I would basically have a dud left on my hands. Plus I hear alot of ST60 owners talking about IR retention problems creeping up on there sets.

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post #2 of 18 Old 11-09-2015, 12:00 AM
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What size(s)?

I'm interested in the market prices too, but because I have a 50ST60 with fairly low hours that I have used with the contrast generally turned down quite a bit and am considering getting the LG 55EF9500. I imagine most people are looking for bigger sizes, but the 50" fit well for my bedroom and I might even go for a 50" OLED if they offered them.

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post #3 of 18 Old 11-09-2015, 01:15 PM
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Depends on the size and general condition of the set. I would pay maybe $750 to $950 for a 55". I have a ST60 with appox 7000 hours on it, IR does show up from time to time but it always goes away eventually. Its a very good plasma if you can find one.

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post #4 of 18 Old 11-10-2015, 12:19 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by chunon View Post
Depends on the size and general condition of the set. I would pay maybe $750 to $950 for a 55". I have a ST60 with appox 7000 hours on it, IR does show up from time to time but it always goes away eventually. Its a very good plasma if you can find one.
50" with 4000 hrs. No IR problems on it.
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post #5 of 18 Old 11-10-2015, 06:23 PM
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Originally Posted by Nvidia256 View Post
50" with 4000 hrs. No IR problems on it.
Where are you located? I should check the hours on the 50ST60 that I might sell. I'm guessing maybe 500, but it has been a bit since I checked.

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post #6 of 18 Old 11-10-2015, 10:05 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by darinp2 View Post
Where are you located? I should check the hours on the 50ST60 that I might sell. I'm guessing maybe 500, but it has been a bit since I checked.

--Darin
Guy is asking $750 for it, seems a bit pricey to me
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post #7 of 18 Old 11-10-2015, 11:32 PM
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Originally Posted by Nvidia256 View Post
Guy is asking $750 for it, seems a bit pricey to me
I agree. I checked mine tonight and the service menu showed 572 hours. If somebody in Seattle was offering that I would likely take it. The hours sound kind of high to me on that other one, but other people should know the market for these better than I do.

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post #8 of 18 Old 11-11-2015, 11:28 PM
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I've seen these for sale locally and wondered about how safe it was to buy a used one.

At what point do the hours start to indicate an end-of-life problem? Or is it more an issue of the IR retention?
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post #9 of 18 Old 11-12-2015, 05:45 AM
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I'd worry more about the IR than the hours on the panel, as I mentioned earlier it is much more likely a board will fail before the panel reaches its half life and starts dimming.

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post #10 of 18 Old 11-12-2015, 11:38 AM
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Originally Posted by chunon View Post
I'd worry more about the IR than the hours on the panel, as I mentioned earlier it is much more likely a board will fail before the panel reaches its half life and starts dimming.
By IR are you talking about image retention that is different from burn-in? That is, IR that is more of a failing of the particular TV than abuse?

I'm used to projectors in a dark room and tend to like things on the dimmer side. I checked my 50ST60 the other day with the main input I use (DIRECTV) and see that I have the contrast set to 50. I figure that may put less strain on the TV, but not sure if it would affect the particular case of IR you are referring to. Can a person check for the IR you are referring to?

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post #11 of 18 Old 11-12-2015, 11:57 AM
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Originally Posted by chunon View Post
I'd worry more about the IR than the hours on the panel, as I mentioned earlier it is much more likely a board will fail before the panel reaches its half life and starts dimming.
Is there any consensus on what that half-life is in practice? I see owners saying they've got 5,000 plus hours without any issues and others saying I can't believe it failed after less than a thousand hours, I only watched it at most an hour a day.
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post #12 of 18 Old 11-12-2015, 12:09 PM
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Originally Posted by darinp2 View Post
By IR are you talking about image retention that is different from burn-in? That is, IR that is more of a failing of the particular TV than abuse?
I'm not an expert on this, so I'm just repeating the information (maybe misinformation) I've read about it.

I've seen that Image Retention (IR) can happen when the TV is used for gaming or repetitive crawls. It is not the same as burn-in, it's a temporary change in the electrical characteristics that may make those cells more prone to retention in the future. But that some TVs becomes more prone to this over time.

Burn-in is where the brightness or color characteristics of a region are permanently altered.

There is some sort of continuum and interrelationship for this.

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Originally Posted by darinp2 View Post
I'm used to projectors in a dark room and tend to like things on the dimmer side. I checked my 50ST60 the other day with the main input I use (DIRECTV) and see that I have the contrast set to 50. I figure that may put less strain on the TV, but not sure if it would affect the particular case of IR you are referring to. Can a person check for the IR you are referring to?
I don't have any direct experience with this.

From what I've read, IR is a function of brightness so your lower-brightness setting should help.

But, again, I'm not an expert with that.
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post #13 of 18 Old 11-15-2015, 03:30 PM
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Is there any consensus on what that half-life is in practice? I see owners saying they've got 5,000 plus hours without any issues and others saying I can't believe it failed after less than a thousand hours, I only watched it at most an hour a day.
Still using my circa 2008 TH-46PZ800U in the family room with 23,231 hours and 3,340 power cycles. Still looks great with no issues at all, in fact I'm watching football on it right now. No IR ever on the screen. These panels are spec'd at 100,000 hours so a set with 5,000 hours on it is just broken in.
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post #14 of 18 Old 11-15-2015, 08:58 PM
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Still using my circa 2008 TH-46PZ800U in the family room with 23,231 hours and 3,340 power cycles. Still looks great with no issues at all, in fact I'm watching football on it right now. No IR ever on the screen. These panels are spec'd at 100,000 hours so a set with 5,000 hours on it is just broken in.
That is good to know.

I see a lot these TVs being advertised for sale with serious issues, or as dead because the driver boards have fried, and I can't tell how to determine which TVs fall into the 95% (if we can believe the stats) that are trouble free, and which are the 5% lemons nobody should go near.
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post #15 of 18 Old 11-17-2015, 09:01 AM
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Not Panasonic related but just wanted to interject that plasmas can have a long life. We have I think a 2005 or 2006 Samsung HP-S5053 that has over 57000 hours on it, not sure how many power cycles.. No reference set by any means but still has an excellent picture to this day.


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post #16 of 18 Old 11-17-2015, 11:10 PM
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Not Panasonic related but just wanted to interject that plasmas can have a long life. We have I think a 2005 or 2006 Samsung HP-S5053 that has over 57000 hours on it, not sure how many power cycles.. No reference set by any means but still has an excellent picture to this day.
The question is how many TVs with such an impressive number of hours on it are still working.

What's the yield curve, in other words.

I have read about so many blow buffer boards, power boards, etc. that I just have to wonder how reliable they really are in the long run. To paraphrase Keynes, in the long run all plasmas are dead. (Someone was going to say it, so better it be me.)
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post #17 of 18 Old 11-19-2015, 11:11 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Retrovert View Post
The question is how many TVs with such an impressive number of hours on it are still working.

What's the yield curve, in other words.

I have read about so many blow buffer boards, power boards, etc. that I just have to wonder how reliable they really are in the long run. To paraphrase Keynes, in the long run all plasmas are dead. (Someone was going to say it, so better it be me.)
So do these TV's have reliability issues with it's circuitry?
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post #18 of 18 Old 11-19-2015, 10:07 PM
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So do these TV's have reliability issues with it's circuitry?
If you do a search you'll a number of complaints about reliability issues with the buffer boards and how to repair those boards by desoldering the dead chips and soldering new ones in place.

The question is how many fail and after what time do they fail. I saw numbers that 5% of plasmas fail. That, however, doesn't say if this was within the warranty period or not. If inside the warranty period, it might be unlikely that used ones will be as prone to failure because they've already outlived the premature failure timeframe. Semiconductors are known to fail early or late, after all. These failures, however, seem to be thermal-related failures from overheating. So that is a failure based upon use.

Again, I don't have any personal knowledge, just what I've read.
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