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Carada CIH Masking System Anticipation Thread

41K views 190 replies 26 participants last post by  MaxTemp 
#1 ·
Carada Masquerade Constant Image Height (CIH) Masking System (& Others...)

Based on confirmation of a prototype of the CIH masking system - link - I started this anticipation thread.
Carada info: David Giles (of Carada) – much of this preliminary is extracted from his posts on the “Carada New Masking System” & subsequent posts in this thread.

*Updates*
Updates added: 2/3/2011
The world "anticipation" removed from top, since this is now a purchasable product.

Reviews

from Alan Gouger - "Carada's New Masquerade C.I.H. Masking System" - AVS Thread

Install pics (shortcut links):

- HD in Ohio - link

- Jay5298 - 3/18/2010 - link

- R Harkness - 2/3/2011 - link

- Juliio (DevilDog93) - pending

Carada
Pics - Link - http://www.carada.com/MasqueradeCIH.aspx
Prices - Link - http://www.carada.com/Category.aspx?CategoryID=19


Information:
- single motor changed to dual motor system
- CIH - Now the CIH system we're working on will do EXACTLY what you want, which is to mask your 2.40:1 screen down to 4:3. It will be a "2-way" system which means that it has two masking panels, and those panels will slide in and out from the sides so it can mask a scope screen to any desired aspect ratio, from the "native" aspect ratio of 2.40:1 (or 2.35:1, 2.37:1, or 2.39:1 - customer's choice) all the way down to 4:3.

- Pre-set image widths (via remote): "...exact control parameters aren't written in stone at this point, but we hope to have four pre-set image widths - "Wide" (fully open to whatever the native aspect ratio of the screen is), 1.85:1, 16:9, and 4:3." - David Giles

- 4 discreet settings - LINK


- Dimensions - frame:6.25" wide all the way around and 3.75" deep

Need 0.75" of 'free and clear' space above the system and

2" of 'free and clear' space on each side of the system

(this side space is necessary for installation of the side fascia).


- Jog - "But our system will definitely have "Jog" capability which is NOT true of all CIH masking systems."

- “Not a 4-way masking system has FOUR masking panels - two horizontal masks for masking top and bottom black bars and two vertical masks for masking side black bars (Stewart's $25K Director's Choice system is a good example). A 4-way masking system isn't necessary for native 2.35:1/2.40:1 screens (unless you absolutely INSIST on being able to mask the top/bottom black bars that you would encounter on the TINY handful of films on the market that are wider than 2.40:1; and I'm not aware of ANY company that makes a "scope" system with 4-way masking). 4-way systems are typically made for 16:9 screens, although they can be used in custom setups similar to what Rich Harkness is planning (2.05:1 screen with a horizontal Masquerade for masking top/bottom black bars and motorized curtains for masking side black bars).”

- The prototype's working great but we're still working on engineering/refining/sourcing several components for the production version (all sorts of new custom steel brackets, a new aluminum extrusion, cables, pulleys, slides, etc.) as well as working out our production methods.

- No adjustable rate control - per post #5 - David Giles - "The Masquerade CIH won't have "adjustable rate control" (in other words the motor will be constant-RPM) but as far as I know that is true of EVERY masking system on the market (certainly all the ones using Somfy motors-which is most of them).


- Accoustical transparent - may be available in the future

- Release date: Before/Around August 2009. It's available now (8/2009)


Wish List
- adjustable rate control (for fine/micro tuning of aspect ratio, the Rich question ) - Per post #5 - David Giles - "The Masquerade CIH won't have "adjustable rate control" (in other words the motor will be constant-RPM) but as far as I know that is true of EVERY masking system on the market (certainly all the ones using Somfy motors-which is most of them). But our system will definitely have "Jog" capability which is NOT true of all CIH masking systems."


Links:
www.Carada.com

I just saw this on the Carada Site (6/14/09):
LINK
2.35:1
"The Masquerade™ CIH Constant Image Height system brings all the MAGIC of the Cinema to your home theater! When the movie starts and the masks quietly glide open revealing your cinemawide screen in all its glory, you and your guests will relive your favorite movie moments all over again. Whether you're watching Casablanca in 4:3, the Super Bowl in 16:9, Bolt in 1.85:1, or Quantum of Solace in 2.40:1, your Masquerade CIH will perfectly frame your image. In addition to the four discreet settings, the Masquerade™ CIH also has "Jog" capability for less common aspect ratios anywhere between 2.40:1 and 4:3. Masquerade™ CIH premiering summer 2009!"


CIH link - http://www.carada.com/Masquerade-Masking-System.aspx

CIH calculator - http://www.carada.com/MasqueradeCIHCalculator.aspx


REVIEW Home Theater
http://www.hometheatermag.com/accessories/1008car/index.html

The new vertical masking system is at the end.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fMRQ1ciNFz0

Other links

Variable Masking Quick Reference (from Stewart) - link

Potential Competition for the Carada CIH
CIH masking

- Somis CIH masking system - AVS link - $1490 (120" diagonal w/base motor - Somis1) - as of 11/19/10 it looks like this projected died off.

--- Somis - link - http://www.somissystems.com/product_...&products_id=1

--- "Motor upgrade kits are not currently available and are expected to be in stock as of July, 2010."

- Stewart - VistaScope & VistaScope Jumbo

- SMX PROMASK-CH - CIH masking system - link - $11,012 MSRP

- Vutec Dyna-Curve VM - link

- HTIQ CIH (Note: DIY, so your mileage may vary!) - link

4-way masking

- Stewart - Director's Choice Ultimate Masking Screen

- SMX PROMASK QUAD - 4 way masking - link - $13,775 MSRP

Manual

SMX Pro panels (fixed) - link - Sets From $299.95 MSRP


--- SMX Pro panels AVS discussion thread - link



Mike



PS - I'm no Neuromancer (RE: Oppo BDP83 threads), but I'll try to keep this thread updated.
 
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#28 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by Samaritano /forum/post/16315520


Is the dimension of the frame going to be similar to the current Masquerade offering of 6¼" ?

Yes the Masquerade CIH will have the exact same frame dimensions and installation space requirements as our current horizontal and vertical systems. So the frame will be 6.25" wide all the way around and 3.75" deep. And you will need to have .75" of 'free and clear' space above the system as well as 2" of 'free and clear' space on each side of the system (this side space is necessary for installation of the side fascia).


The masking system's frame covers the screen's frame (but the screen frame members must be no wider than 3.3") so you can simply add 12.5" to your viewing surface's dimensions to get the outside dimensions of the matching Masquerade. For example if your screen's VIEWING SURFACE is 120"x50", then the OUTSIDE frame dimensions of the matching Masquerade CIH would be 132.5"x62.5". And the space needed on your wall for installation of this particular system would be 136.5"x63.25".


But the 2" of 'free and clear' space needed on each side is ONLY needed during installation of the side fascia, so AFTER you've completed the installation of the Masquerade then you could actually put speakers (or shelves or whatever) right up against the side fascia of the system. Just keep in mind that you would have to remove those speakers FIRST if you ever needed to take the Masquerade down.


David Giles

Carada, Inc.
 
#30 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by stanger89 /forum/post/16317868


Oh, I didn't see this asked yet. Is the masking acoustically transparent?

Our standard masking material is not acoustically transparent, and although we don't expect to have that option available at the initial release of the CIH system, we do plan to offer it in the near future.


David Giles

Carada, Inc.
 
#32 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by stanger89 /forum/post/16318153


Would you be able to "upgrade" a non AT version? And while I'm thinking of it (though it's probably answered elsewhere), is the masking material the same "black hole" type material of the frame?

Yes our standard masking uses the same Black Hole material (with a different backing) so it matches the frame perfectly. But any future acoustically transparent masking would by default NOT perfectly match the Black Hole trim on the frame, although it would of course be black. So if you deployed the masks with ambient light in the room there would be a noticeable difference between the frame and the masks, although it would still be MUCH better than living with unmasked black bars. And when the lights are out and you're watching a movie, the masks should disappear (unless you're using a very old projector that throws a LOT of light into the "black bar" areas, in which case you might still see the masks slightly).


At this point I don't see any reason why we couldn't upgrade a non-AT system with acoustically transparent masking material in the future. But there would be some significant expense involved since you would have to pay for two-way shipping to ship those parts to and from the factory, and of course you would have to pay for the new material and labor to install it. It would cost much less than a whole new system though. :)


David Giles

Carada, Inc.
 
#33 ·
David -


As always, great info.

I made some updates to the first post.


Mike
 
#34 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by David Giles /forum/post/16318446


Yes our standard masking uses the same Black Hole material (with a different backing) so it matches the frame perfectly. But any future acoustically transparent masking would by default NOT perfectly match the Black Hole trim on the frame, although it would of course be black. So if you deployed the masks with ambient light in the room there would be a noticeable difference between the frame and the masks, although it would still be MUCH better than living with unmasked black bars. And when the lights are out and you're watching a movie, the masks should disappear (unless you're using a very old projector that throws a LOT of light into the "black bar" areas, in which case you might still see the masks slightly).

Yeah, I wouldn't expect the AT version to be quite the same because I'd expect it to have to be less dense. But obviously still much better than nothing
.

Quote:
At this point I don't see any reason why we couldn't upgrade a non-AT system with acoustically transparent masking material in the future. But there would be some significant expense involved since you would have to pay for two-way shipping to ship those parts to and from the factory, and of course you would have to pay for the new material and labor to install it. It would cost much less than a whole new system though. :)

Cool, wasn't really expecting there to be an option. But at least it's there
.


I'll keep watching, and thanks again.
 
#37 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by David Giles /forum/post/16416831


Still looking at an early summer release date I think...


David Giles

Carada, Inc.

So, this begs the question, when does summer start?

And when is early summer?


From Wikipedia:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Summer


"In Chinese astronomy , for example, summer starts on or around May 5 , with the jiéqì ( solar term ) known as Lixia (立夏), i.e. "establishment of summer", and it ends on or around August 6 . An example of Western usage would be William Shakespeare 's A Midsummer Night's Dream, where the play takes place over the shortest night of the year, which is the summer solstice.

In Ireland , summer begins on 1 May and ends 31 July, due to the Irish calendar .

In southern and southeast Asia, where the monsoon occurs, summer is more generally defined as lasting from March to May/early June, their warmest time of the year, ending with the onset of the monsoon rains .[citation needed]

From a popular culture point of view, in some areas of the United States, summer season is often considered to begin at the Memorial Day weekend (the last Monday in May) and end at the Labor Day weekend (the first Monday in September). Likewise, another set of pop-cultural reference points for summer is the time when elementary and secondary schools close down for the "summer vacation". This period usually lasts from around early to mid June until around late August to early September , depending on where the school is located."



Looking forward to it...



Mike
 
#39 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by David Giles /forum/post/16317891


Our standard masking material is not acoustically transparent, and although we don't expect to have that option available at the initial release of the CIH system, we do plan to offer it in the near future.


David Giles

Carada, Inc.

So keeping an eye on this thread. David if it doesn't add to much expense to the Screen look at possibly getting ISF certification and if/when you go the Perf route THX certification.
 
#40 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by Spizz /forum/post/16431576


So keeping an eye on this thread. David if it doesn't add to much expense to the Screen look at possibly getting ISF certification and if/when you go the Perf route THX certification.

Thanks for the recommendation Spizz! We may look into it at some point, but those certifications would no doubt have a significant impact on the price of the system and I'm not sure how many customers would want to pay the extra costs involved...


David Giles

Carada, Inc.
 
#42 ·
So let me see if I have this straight...I'm kinda learning about CIH and its benefits and I want to go to that setup I think...

Here is what I have right now:

110" 16:9 Da-lite fixed frame screen

Panny AE3000


So I could get the existing horizontal framing system and install that over my current screen, correct? That would be cheaper than buying a new screen and the new CIH masking system that is coming in August. For either setup, I can use the zoom method with my projector.

But, on other hand, if I got a new 2.35:1 or 2.40:1 screen, I could go a bit bigger and make that aspect ratio stand out more. It's just going to be much more costly.


Do I have this all right?
 
#43 ·
Is it early summer yet?



David -

Are the remote codes available for the masking system yet?

I'm looking at doing some remote/automation coordination soon and curious.


Mike
 
#44 ·
Sorry about the delay in getting back to you Mike but I spent several blissful days away from the office (and more importantly away from the computer!)



Anyway, no we don't have codes available just yet. The easiest way to get the IR signals programmed into your own remote is of course to "learn" them into your remote once you have the system inhouse. We will also have the hex codes available at the time of release.

Quote:
Is it early summer yet?

Not by my calendar.



David Giles

Carada, Inc.
 
#45 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by Maestro J /forum/post/16543319


So let me see if I have this straight...I'm kinda learning about CIH and its benefits and I want to go to that setup I think...

Here is what I have right now:

110" 16:9 Da-lite fixed frame screen

Panny AE3000


So I could get the existing horizontal framing system and install that over my current screen, correct? That would be cheaper than buying a new screen and the new CIH masking system that is coming in August. For either setup, I can use the zoom method with my projector.

But, on other hand, if I got a new 2.35:1 or 2.40:1 screen, I could go a bit bigger and make that aspect ratio stand out more. It's just going to be much more costly.


Do I have this all right?

Pretty much (except for the part about "coming in August"...) Yes you can use our Horizontal Masquerade system with your current 16:9 screen which will certainly be cheaper than buying a new screen AND masking system in the 2.35:1/2.40:1 ratio.


David Giles

Carada, Inc.
 
#46 ·
@David:

Father's Day is coming up.

Any updates?


@David et alia:

What is the competition for the Carada CIH?


There are (presumably) much more expenseive 4-way masking systems from known vendors -- eg Stewart.


Others?

Costs?

Pros and Cons to others?



Mike
 
#48 ·
I just saw this on the Carada Site:

LINK

CIH


2.35:1







The Masquerade CIH Constant Image Height system brings all the MAGIC of the Cinema to your home theater! When the movie starts and the masks quietly glide open revealing your cinemawide screen in all its glory, you and your guests will relive your favorite movie moments all over again. Whether you're watching Casablanca in 4:3, the Super Bowl in 16:9, Bolt in 1.85:1, or Quantum of Solace in 2.40:1, your Masquerade CIH will perfectly frame your image. In addition to the four discreet settings, the Masquerade CIH also has "Jog" capability for less common aspect ratios anywhere between 2.40:1 and 4:3. Masquerade CIH premiering summer 2009!

---------------------

Nice moving images (on site) to see how they work.




Mike
 
#49 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by stanger89 /forum/post/16654588


I know SMX has a nice CIH masking system, but easilly 2-3x the cost of what we're expecting from the Carada.

Thanks.

I added to post #1 FAQ with a good Stewart link (no prices I saw online -- but I thought I recalled $15K range) and looked up the SMX.


- SMX PROMASK-CH - CIH masking system - link - $11,012 MSRP



Mike
 
#50 ·
Well folks, I have good news and bad news. The bad news is that there will be a short delay in the release of the Masquerade CIH. We’d hoped to hit our target ship date of June 22, but it’s going to take a few more weeks.


Now the GOOD news is that the Masquerade CIH is going to be even BETTER than previously imagined. I mentioned in another thread a few months ago that we had decided to develop the CIH system as a single-motor platform (with the possibility of a higher cost 2-motor option). Well we’ve had the single-motor production model running for a few weeks now and it looks absolutely beautiful and runs flawlessly, and any home theater enthusiast would be proud to have one in their theater. BUT after much agonizing over the pros/cons of the single-motor design we’ve decided to switch exclusively to a 2-motor design (i.e. a single-motor option won’t be offered). The 2-motor system will be more capable, more precise, more reliable, and easier to install (and is going to drive our competitors crazy!
) In that same thread from earlier this year I mentioned that a mid-sized single-motor system should come in under $4K. Of course the 2-motor system will necessarily be a bit more expensive, but I don’t think anyone will mind the small increase in cost considering what you get. Now a mid-size 2-motor system will come in around $4,200, and a whopping 10’ wide system will be about $4,500 (plus shipping).


Fortunately the system is about 98% engineered already and making the changes to a 2-motor system aren’t as drastic as one might think so the delay isn’t going to be too bad. Summer officially starts on June 22 and depending on your definition of “early” we might still make the “early summer” target.
I know customers who’ve been eagerly awaiting this system would like something a little more concrete than that, and although I can’t give an EXACT date I can offer some estimates:


Ship within the next 3-4 weeks - 75% confidence


Ship within the next 5-6 weeks - 90% confidence


Ship before the end of the summer - 100% confidence


We will be posting prices on our website within a week and will begin taking pre-orders at that time.


David Giles

Carada, Inc.
 
#51 ·
By the way, we've added some cool calculators to our website that allow you to play around with different sizes/aspect ratios to help you figure out what size Masquerade system will physically fit your home theater (and there's a different calculator for each system architecture type). Check 'em out!


David Giles

Carada, Inc.
 
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