First experiences with CRT Screengoo - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 16 Old 02-19-2002, 05:04 AM - Thread Starter
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I just thought I'd share my first experience with Ken's CRT screengoo. Some have been inquiring about the stuff, so I thought I'd relay my experiences to this point. I have not projected any images yet, just applied it to a screen. It is not your typical paint. It is not just the color of the screen goo, there is something else in it.

I received 2 1L jugs from Ken a little over a week ago. One was the CRT primer, the other the actual screengoo. Both the primer and screegoo look identical in the jugs when you first open them....a very "solid" white. My wife commented it looked like merengue (hope I'm spelling it correctly), for those of you who have made lemon merengue pie, you'll know the white I'm talking about. After shaking the primer for 15-20 minutes while watching a basketball game, I poured 1/2L into a plastic pail and added 50ml of reverse osmosis water. Ken recommended distilled water, but RO water is pretty good. I then mixed the primer and water for 10-15 minutes with a black and decker hand held mixer (the stuff easily washes off with water if washed soon after use). I then poured it into a pan, and applied it, using a 3/8" nap roller, to a parkland plastex sheet adhered to a 4'X 7' section of 5/8" drywall. The drywall was on the floor. Ken is right in that a long handle will make it easier to make smooth full strokes over the screen. I happened to have a 4.5' handle to attach to the roller. I applied two layers of the primer, one about 12h after the other. I did not use a foam roller, but a "fuzz" roller. Foam might be better because very small bits of the fuzz were left in the paint in a few places, but not many. The surface looked like it had been painted with a white paint. Imagine that! ;)

The next day I started with the screengoo. I prepped the screengoo the same way as the primer. I applied only one layer of screengoo. Even though I thought I'd loaded the roller with screengoo the same way as I loaded it with primer, the screengoo loaded roller definately wanted to "slide" over the surface more so than did the primer loaded roller. Beats me as to why this was the case, but that is what it felt like. Ken said roller sliding was a bad thing to have happen, an indication of overloading the roller. He also recommended against going back over areas that were not applied correctly. However, I could see, and feel, the sliding taking place and decided to do something about it while it was still wet. After the single stroke, I would do a second stroke next to the first and then go back over those strokes once or twice while the paint was still wet, evening out what was applied and blending into the previously painted section.

I would only do 2 full strokes in unpainted areas per loading of the roller. I found this worked best for me and did not drain the roller too much allowing more even application. However the real indicator of good application will be when I view the projected image.

I thoroughly cleaned the mixing pail, rolling pan, and roller between each use. I even used a new roller for the screen goo.

Lighting was a 500W halogen lamp complemented by a pair of 60W incadescents. I placed the halogen about even with the screen surface so that I could see where the paint had and had not been applied. It was harder to see if the light was directly over the screen.

This is the interesting thing. I wondered if the screengoo was really any different than basic white paint, you name your brand. Well, I thought I saw something in this "paint" that I've never noticed in paint before. This is after it had dried for 24h. While lifting the screen and looking closely at the screengoo'd surface, I could see long, straight ripples of refracted light, extended from top to bottom of the screen, moving along the surface of the screen. These ripples moved in conjuction with the lifting and lowering of the screen. I saw this not with the halogen light on, but only the incadescent lights. This is just an observation, but it is something that is definately different from regular paint. As I said before, there is something else about the screengoo other than the color.

I hope to have the screen and projector up and running within a couple of weeks.

What experiences have others had with the screengoo? Again, mine is the CRT stuff, not the digital.

Light travels faster than sound. This explains why some people appear
bright, until you hear them speak.
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post #2 of 16 Old 02-19-2002, 05:41 AM
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The primer is close to regular white paint, but the screen goo is diffrent. From what I understand the screen goo itself is more of a suspention than a paint. It holdsin it the particulate matter ( the secret ingredents ) to make the optical properties of the finished product.

Eric

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post #3 of 16 Old 02-26-2002, 07:45 AM
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Surely after all this time and interest someone has rolled Ken's wonder product on a smooth wall by now. I really really want to do this but also don't want to "bleep" it up with the price of experimenting being so high.

The "sliding roller" HTbuph reports, in the horizontal position no less, has me a little nervous. I intend to use foam rollers from the start.
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post #4 of 16 Old 02-26-2002, 08:55 AM - Thread Starter
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Ron,

I might have overloaded the roller a bit, but was able to control the "sliding tendency" to some degree. It slid maybe once or twice, and once it did, I would go over it while it was still wet (within 10-15 seconds of the first pass). I'm not a professional painter, but had been doing painting in the new house recently and had acquired a feel for it.

I didn't go too fast because that would lead to a slide. I didn't want to too lightly load the roller to avoid sliding because I wanted to avoid uneven application, which in my uneducated, unexperienced opinion would be worse. It would be alot harder to correct for uneven application.

If I had any recommendation, it would be to practice the technique with a cheaper paint because the cost of this "screen" for its supposed performance (I have yet to really evaluate mine)is pretty good.

Light travels faster than sound. This explains why some people appear
bright, until you hear them speak.
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post #5 of 16 Old 02-26-2002, 09:19 PM
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I'm decent with a foam roller. Presently I'm using Behr Ultra Pure White Eggshell to cover a 6' x 8 1/2' area. I've also done a decent job with the smoothing process & will do more. It has worked really well for me, but now I want a "real" screen. I want screen goo in the CRT white with somewhere between 1.4 - 1.6 gain.

Has anyone else out there ROLLED any of Ken's product besides HTbuph and Ken?
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post #6 of 16 Old 02-27-2002, 09:40 AM - Thread Starter
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Ron,

I assume you've seen the FAQ site on Ken's Goosystems website? He has application instructions there. You could also spray it as well, you don't have to roll it.

Light travels faster than sound. This explains why some people appear
bright, until you hear them speak.
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post #7 of 16 Old 02-27-2002, 10:13 AM
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I've tried 3 times this past several days to access his web site & keep getting "cannot access this page" Now I just tried and there it is. Uh yeah....that'll work. There seems to be comings & goings with access to the site.
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post #8 of 16 Old 02-27-2002, 04:25 PM
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Thee are two versions available. The High Gain version, and the Low gain version. The low gain is rollable. The high gain is actually physically rollable, but is emphatically NOT recommended to applied that way. It is designed to be misted on to a proper surface with a compressor/sprayer system. That one is just gorgeous as finished surface,and is beyond shadow of a doubt, amongst the best available when used in this manner. You mist it on to the surface in what is known as a nearly 'dry' manner, from about 18" to 24" back with the spray head tip, and the surface that emerges is world class. If you can use a air sprayer at all, I urge you to try the high gain Goo.

Ken Hotte

"Never forget that only dead fish swim with the stream." -- Malcolm Muggeridge.
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post #9 of 16 Old 02-27-2002, 05:28 PM
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Hi Ken,
Thanks for replying. What's the max gain on the "rollable" if your instructions are followed correctly? CRT Mix.
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post #10 of 16 Old 02-28-2002, 09:23 AM
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The max gain would come in at about 1.6-1.7 . There is little variation on that number, due to the fact that the product is rolled. This is what actually enforces consistency. The only way to get to the 1.7 number (approx! surface consistency, and granularity is part of the gain calculation) is to roll multiple thinned layers.

If you do one or two regular layers, you will probably hit the 1.6 number. It's very hard to make it mis-behave in the sense of gain. Layering has to be perfect, because thinness of the topcoat can be critical, after drying. What happens, is that the surface of the product seals off, and then the water leeches out through micro-pores.. over 2-4 weeks, depending on conditions. it will leech out the back of the coating as well, if the material it is on is porous like blackout cloth, or canvas. On a wall, or on the Parklands Plastic sheets, it will take closer to 4 weeks. This is due to the one surface being available for out-gassing of the water in the mix. Water actually out-gasses pretty fast compared to most paint ingredients. This mix is about as safe as it gets at the same time it performs spectacularly.

I was having problems with my e-mail last night, so i called a customer to assure them that their order was being sent. he was a user of gravity fed spray systems. he was going to roll it, but when i found out he could spray, i urged him to spray it instead. he thought that, in his experience, it being an acrylic mix, it would not work well with spray systems. I told him that, this would not be the case, as we actually grinding our own pigments over here! the grind quality is above what he has ever used, and the consistency of that grind is VERY high, and the suspension systems is about as high a quality of mix as there has ever been for acrylic mixes. So, it was at about a 4x factor of quality, minimum, compared to any other acrylic paint he had ever messed with or had access to.

The parent company makes the worlds highest grade airbrush acrylic paints as well. They are the weapon of choice of airbrush artists.. the moment the airbrush artists try the product.. they never use anything else again. Fact.

Very well known artists, period, who create multi-kilobuck original art.. when they try the parent company's product.. they never use anything else again. Fact.

Every single chain, store,and artist group, artist, whoever...who ever try any of the parent company's product.. are so ecstatic about the product, they rave about it. Fact.

To go completely over the top, this mix has probably has the most minds, opinions and effort and complexity of design over any other product to ever come out of this factory. So, it's a real paint, or in this case, a screen topcoat material. As far as paint design goes.. this is as hardcore as it gets.

Ken Hotte

"Never forget that only dead fish swim with the stream." -- Malcolm Muggeridge.
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post #11 of 16 Old 02-28-2002, 11:44 AM
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Ken, since you are here !
How big of a screen do you think i could make with your little half liters of goo ?
I have a LP350 (which blacks suck....) and was wondering about your digital Grey.
i don't need something big, actually just around 60/70 inches wide (16:9).
Do you think i would be better off with 1L ?
Could you direct me to an approximate shade of grey your goo is ? (is it darker or brighter than a greyhawk ?)
Last question finally, to achieve a gain of 1.8-2, would you recommend more than 2 thin sprayed coats ?
I'm thinking of a high gain just to put a ND half stop or 1 stop on the lens to achieve even better blacks.

Pierre.
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post #12 of 16 Old 03-01-2002, 02:00 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by RonF
Surely after all this time and interest someone has rolled Ken's wonder product on a smooth wall by now. I really really want to do this but also don't want to "bleep" it up with the price of experimenting being so high.

Well....apparently not. No one has responded. That really surprises me after all this time. OK, I will take a shot at rolling the CRT White Goo on my wall. I feel this is going to be the next BIG improvement for my D-ILA after the great results I got with Dilard calibration. However I read somewhere that post calibration G1000's only have about 500 lumens, and Don O'Brien awhile back calculated for me that I ought to be thinking white gain screen rather than gray for my size application. Plus WAF probably much better with white, as rest of our walls are combo of white and wood surfaces. I may not even tell her and see if she notices it (either the difference in the wall or the projected images) if I take a day off work and do while she is gone.

Ken, please keep an eye out for an order coming through on your web site. Hopefully I will be able to send this weekend from home, but for some reason having a problem accessing your site from there.

Thanks much
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post #13 of 16 Old 03-05-2002, 12:31 AM
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toxic candy:

You can spray the high gain mixture, the lite grey version and achieve a gain of 2.3..if it was a CRT white screen. A similar sort of gain curve is possible. If you use a bit of water in the mix..and do two thin coats, and stay in close with the spray head to achieve 'flat' textural characteristic. I would recommend moving back a bit, and feathering the final coat, just a bit, to give a hair of texture. ath is alleviates some of the hotspotting issue, while still keeping the gain up high.

The grey of the Digital Grey Lite, high gain (and low gain mix, for that matter) (**DIY"ERS SEE NOTE**) is almost exactly a '2' on the Kodak grey scale chart (20 gradations). This is a HAIR lighter than the greyhawk's grey. The high gain mix will give a spectacular image when sprayed properly. Don't get me wrong, it sprays well even for those who have never sprayed before.. but.. the high gain mixtures are the maximum kind of screen creation toy, for those who have a bit of experience spraying different surfaces,and paint mixes. A VERY high level of manipulation is possible.

For example, the high gain white CRT mix can be manipulated via a spray system to get from a gain of about 1.3...all the way to 2.2-2.3. Now that's range.

Only one person has ordered the High gain mixtures. Now that's frustrating, as this product is THE king of the hill in our product line. Big fun can be had there.

Note: Just because I told you approximately what the grey level of a Greyhawk, or Digital Grey is.. don't run off and just try and equal that grey level. In each case, the ScreenGoo topcoat , and the Greyhawk.. there is one HELL of alot more going on there, than just the grey level) The grey level, anyone can make that sort of judgment and approximation. That's no secret. The reason I tell you this is not to pump my product, and to cast doubt on what you thnk to have fun with.. but to be sure that with the grey level situation: that you are not barking up the wrong tree with your thoughts on grey screen design.

Ken Hotte

"Never forget that only dead fish swim with the stream." -- Malcolm Muggeridge.
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post #14 of 16 Old 03-05-2002, 03:47 AM
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Thanks for the reply Ken.
I'm not trying to make a replica of your grey in any case :)
Just wondering if i'm not gonna order some of your stuff anytime soon to make a little bigger screen.... or maybe i could paint that Model B VideoSpectra with some Digital grey ;)

Cheers...
Pierre
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post #15 of 16 Old 03-05-2002, 09:58 AM
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Hi Ken, I've been trying to email you re screen - not sure if system is down. Please reply to me @

harrison.rick@ic.gc.ca

thanks
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post #16 of 16 Old 03-05-2002, 05:25 PM
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Ken, i just tried again the Greyhawk sample i have (kinda small tho), but if you say the Digital Grey Lite is a little brighter, it will be too bright for me. (i find the greyhawk a little too bright already).
Do you have a darker grey ? if yes, around what % of black would that be ? i think i would need something like 20% maybe (i'm no pro at evaluation).
Last question..... : Does your Goo do something about cross reflexion lights in the room (like the firehawk) ?

Pierre.
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