Stewart vs black diamond .8 gain screen - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 61 Old 08-28-2010, 05:45 AM - Thread Starter
 
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okay want to get some advice between these too screens
the stewart is a luxus deluxe screenwall fixed with firehawk g3 mat/ 120 inch
the Black Diamond is TRF113BD8..... .8 gain screen / 113 inch

the room is a very light controlled room and 1.6 afc is the normal viewing light or darker

The SI web screen wizard recommends the .8 gain screen.

The projector being used is Epson 9500 ub that has 1600 lumens is 200000:1 contrast ratio...

What i want to know is the black diamond a step down from the stewart.
the stewart is a cheaper and is bigger (120inch STEW vs 113 SIBD2)...

But the black levels would be amazing on the .8 SI screen....

Just want to know if anyone out there has the .8 screen or the stewart mentioned above...

thanks
fraisa
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post #2 of 61 Old 08-28-2010, 07:47 AM
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I have the same Stewart Screen but not the same projector. I love the firehawk, it has an amazing picture. I am in the market to upgrade my projector, the Epson looks very interesting, I will have to do some reaserch on it. Good luck with the screen choice.

Mike
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post #3 of 61 Old 08-28-2010, 07:56 AM - Thread Starter
 
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the nice thing about the epson 9500 ub is it comes with an extra bulb, ceiling mount , and wire cover...
and an extra yr warrenty... for a total 3 yrs full replacement warrenty...

With regards to your stewart how are the blacks?
also when watching a 2.35 image on the 16:9 screen do you need masking?
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post #4 of 61 Old 08-28-2010, 08:35 AM
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Yes i do have black bars and i don't have a masking system. The blacks are very nice, my room is completely light controlled and it is dark. Watching star wars or Avatar space scenes are the same as walls surrounding the screen. The black level is great. I have never seen the black diamond screen so not sure how it compares. I guess there is no where to go see the two together or even in separat rooms with the same projector? Also is the screens 2:35 or 16x9?

Mike
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post #5 of 61 Old 08-28-2010, 08:54 AM - Thread Starter
 
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havent decided on the screen size yet...
was going to go 16 x 9 but am intrested in in 2:35...
the big question is how is video games on a 2:35 screen....
would you loose any of the screen when playing a game?

I am in the planning stages of this and was plaining on the stewart screen then heard and seen video on the Black diamond....

The Black diamond is 300-400$ More and I can only get it in 113 inch..
where the stewart screen is 120 inch size...

So when you are watching a movie when its completely dark does the stewart reflect light in the Room?
Or is it completely black
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post #6 of 61 Old 08-28-2010, 11:58 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fraisa View Post

havent decided on the screen size yet...
was going to go 16 x 9 but am intrested in in 2:35...
the big question is how is video games on a 2:35 screen....
would you loose any of the screen when playing a game?

If you have your PJ zoomed out to fill a 2.35 screen with a 2.35 image, then, yes, you will lose about 12.5% of the top and bottom of a 16:9 image. What is normally done to allow seeing the entire 16:9 image is to zoom the image smaller. This then leaves black "pillars" on either side of the 16:9 image.

You might benefit from playing with my Easy Calculator linked below to help you see how this works.

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post #7 of 61 Old 08-28-2010, 01:06 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FLBoy View Post

If you have your PJ zoomed out to fill a 2.35 screen with a 2.35 image, then, yes, you will lose about 12.5% of the top and bottom of a 16:9 image. What is normally done to allow seeing the entire 16:9 image is to zoom the image smaller. This then leaves black "pillars" on either side of the 16:9 image.

You might benefit from playing with my Easy Calculator linked below to help you see how this works.

Ya did the Calculator and ya i will definetly be going with a 16x9...
I just wish anyone that has a .8 Black Diamond Screen would chime in on this thread...
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post #8 of 61 Old 08-28-2010, 01:47 PM
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fraisa: You do realize that both the screens you are weighing are considered specialty screens for rooms with ambient light issues, don't you? While good in high ambient conditions, these screens have issues of their own, including a narrow viewing cone, a visible screen texture, and a tendency to hot-spot. Not saying they are no good, but if you do not have light colored walls/ceiling and/or ambient light issues--or you plan to watch with the lights on--there may be better screen choices. Just want to make sure you are on the right track.

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post #9 of 61 Old 08-28-2010, 02:12 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FLBoy View Post

fraisa: You do realize that both the screens you are weighing are considered specialty screens for rooms with ambient light issues, don't you? While good in high ambient conditions, these screens have issues of their own, including a narrow viewing cone, a visible screen texture, and a tendency to hot-spot. Not saying they are no good, but if you do not have light colored walls/ceiling and/or ambient light issues--or you plan to watch with the lights on--there may be better screen choices. Just want to make sure you are on the right track.

Okay the room it is going in has a white ceiling and sand taupe walls.
the lights are pot lights with a dimmer that currently have flood lights in them and i will be switching them to Spot Lights so the light goes straight down..
THe first set of pot lights are about 4-5 feet away from the screen...

During watching the screen the lights are on but dim...

The biggest thing i want to achieve is deep blacks and a screen that doesnt reflect light in the room...

That was one thing i saw on the SI web videos demo of the black diamond...

Also i dont want to invest in masking so if i am watching a 2:35 movie i want the black bars to be Black and not off white ,....
If you want to make any other suggestions of other screen totally would apprieciate it...
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post #10 of 61 Old 08-29-2010, 03:46 AM
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I'm kind of new here, but have seen the .8 gain BD II in my local a/v store with an Anthem projector. Their setup was with 100" fixed screen with complete light control. In my opinion it is a very nice screen, but not perfect and probably not the right one for my projector. My only nitpick was the picture from an off angle really darkened out the far 1/3 of the screen, although for most rooms this wouldn't be a problem. The black levels were great and the black bars although noticeable though not a distraction. Star Trek still looked spectacular and I sat and watched for about 1/2 hr.

I'm also trying to decide between similar screens, but in the 100" size for my room. I was told by SI that the 1.4 gain model is more suited for my Pioneer projector. I have a hard time spending a couple grand or more on a screen sight unseen, so the Firehawk although it has a good reputation would be nice to see how it performs in person.
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post #11 of 61 Old 08-29-2010, 06:11 AM
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I purchased a 16:9 BDII 1.4 110" to enable us to watch sports in daylight conditions and eliminate the bright boarders when movie watching which has worked with a JVC HD-350 800+ lumens upto 800 lamp hours. For daylight viewing the brighter the better so i would say the 0.8 would need a new lamp sooner to light it up in daylight conditions. Check the Black Diamond thread to see some pics i posted of the conditions i use even if sun is shining this setup works.
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post #12 of 61 Old 08-29-2010, 06:12 AM - Thread Starter
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cliffside View Post

I'm kind of new here, but have seen the .8 gain BD II in my local a/v store with an Anthem projector. Their setup was with 100" fixed screen with complete light control. In my opinion it is a very nice screen, but not perfect and probably not the right one for my projector. My only nitpick was the picture from an off angle really darkened out the far 1/3 of the screen, although for most rooms this wouldn't be a problem. The black levels were great and the black bars although noticeable though not a distraction. Star Trek still looked spectacular and I sat and watched for about 1/2 hr.

I'm also trying to decide between similar screens, but in the 100" size for my room. I was told by SI that the 1.4 gain model is more suited for my Pioneer projector. I have a hard time spending a couple grand or more on a screen sight unseen, so the Firehawk although it has a good reputation would be nice to see how it performs in person.

Awesome Info,

I am the reverse of you I have seen the Firehawk screen in action but not the SI Screen .8 or 1.4....

the firehawk screen i saw was on two projectors at a local store. One demo was with an Epson 8500 the other demo was with a Runco ( dont know the model but from memory it was there mid Range)

The firehawk was very good at blacks and there was no issue with side viewing at a third off the screen..
Actually this sales guy told me to go less on a projector and go more on a screen Price wise and features.

But i do want to give the Black diamond a chance the technology looks awesome,
and from reviews i have heard that the 1.4 gain screen SI has a more sharper punchier image...
but again nothing on the .8 yet..
so i really apprieciate the above comment ,
Please keep them coming.....
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post #13 of 61 Old 08-29-2010, 09:27 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FLBoy View Post

...these screens have issues of their own, including a narrow viewing cone, a visible screen texture, and a tendency to hot-spot.

Have you actually tried a Screen Innovations Black Diamond II?

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post #14 of 61 Old 08-29-2010, 04:26 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kevin 3000 View Post

I purchased a 16:9 BDII 1.4 110" to enable us to watch sports in daylight conditions and eliminate the bright boarders when movie watching which has worked with a JVC HD-350 800+ lumens upto 800 lamp hours. For daylight viewing the brighter the better so i would say the 0.8 would need a new lamp sooner to light it up in daylight conditions. Check the Black Diamond thread to see some pics i posted of the conditions i use even if sun is shining this setup works.

looked at your pics awesome,
would be intrested in seeing a pic thats shows a 2:35 movie to see what the black bars look like......
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post #15 of 61 Old 08-30-2010, 02:06 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fraisa View Post

looked at your pics awesome,
would be intrested in seeing a pic thats shows a 2:35 movie to see what the black bars look like......

Overexposed to show the light spill in top bar you see with no input source being displayed. Brighten your monitor if you can`t see it.

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post #16 of 61 Old 08-30-2010, 02:46 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fraisa View Post

okay want to get some advice between these too screens
the stewart is a luxus deluxe screenwall fixed with firehawk g3 mat/ 120 inch
the Black Diamond is TRF113BD8..... .8 gain screen / 113 inch

the room is a very light controlled room and 1.6 afc is the normal viewing light or darker

The SI web screen wizard recommends the .8 gain screen.

The projector being used is Epson 9500 ub that has 1600 lumens is 200000:1 contrast ratio...

What i want to know is the black diamond a step down from the stewart.
the stewart is a couple of hundred $ cheaper and is bigger...

But the black levels would be amazing on the .8 SI screen....

Just want to know if anyone out there has the .8 screen or the stewart mentioned above...

thanks
fraisa

As a clarification the Epson is no where near 1600 lumens nor 200000:1 contrast...hyped specs. Just wanted to make sure you based all your calculations properly.
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post #17 of 61 Old 08-30-2010, 03:18 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kevin 3000 View Post

Overexposed to show the light spill in top bar you see with no input source being displayed. Brighten your monitor if you can`t see it.


wow that looks good,
cant wait to see a posted pic of the .8 gain screen......
The kwl thing i like about this product the screen disappears when you watch it in the dark.....
thats amazing
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post #18 of 61 Old 08-30-2010, 03:29 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jason Turk View Post

As a clarification the Epson is no where near 1600 lumens nor 200000:1 contrast...hyped specs. Just wanted to make sure you based all your calculations properly.

sure i was just listing details for the posted published specs on the projector so people can way in on answering my question in this thread....

Also with regards to my question would love to see more comments regarding Stewart screens
and if there is other screens that need a consideration please dial in and post them./..

I will say this from the time spent looking at screens for this install i have found that SI Website has been the best web site vs similar competitor sites ....
it is really easy to use and very informative customer videos....
also another thing that has impressed is ........
when i called to SI today to ask more questions about this product that they knew about my thread,
Very Impressed
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post #19 of 61 Old 08-30-2010, 11:19 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fraisa View Post

would be intrested in seeing a pic thats shows a 2:35 movie to see what the black bars look like......

How black your black bars will appear depends in large part on how much light your projector projects on the black bar portion of the screen. I’m not sure whether SI ever mentions this. The perfect projector, which has yet to be invented, wouldn't project any light on the black bar portion of the screen.

The black bars on my BDII 1.4 in a room with no light sources other than the projector appear to be very dark gray. If I hold an object such as a magazine between the projector and a black bar portion of the screen to shield the light coming from the projector, it creates a shadow, making that portion of the black bar even darker. Not quite, but fairly close to the black velvet screen frame covering.

I tried taking pictures, but my old camera isn’t good enough to show what I am talking about.

Black bars not being absolutely black has never bothered me. I have never found it to be distracting, so the very dark gray bars on my BDII are fine with me, even though they aren’t as black as the frame. Your mileage may vary.

Karl S.
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post #20 of 61 Old 08-31-2010, 06:05 AM - Thread Starter
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by karlsch View Post

How black your black bars will appear depends in large part on how much light your projector projects on the black bar portion of the screen. I'm not sure whether SI ever mentions this. The perfect projector, which has yet to be invented, wouldn't project any light on the black bar portion of the screen.

The black bars on my BDII 1.4 in a room with no light sources other than the projector appear to be very dark gray. If I hold an object such as a magazine between the projector and a black bar portion of the screen to shield the light coming from the projector, it creates a shadow, making that portion of the black bar even darker. Not quite, but fairly close to the black velvet screen frame covering.

I tried taking pictures, but my old camera isn't good enough to show what I am talking about.

Black bars not being absolutely black has never bothered me. I have never found it to be distracting, so the very dark gray bars on my BDII are fine with me, even though they aren't as black as the frame. Your mileage may vary.

Thats what i figured and why I wanted to see if the .8 gain takes the bars to black instead of the 1.4 gain dark gray... and yes the projector has a huge part in this process .... thats why i am going with the epson 9500ub....

hopefully someone posts some .8 gain pic's so all of us can see...
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post #21 of 61 Old 08-31-2010, 06:26 AM
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I was sold on BDII until yesterday. I found a AV store to demo it setup in a closed dark room. The projector was a JVC -350. I kept waiting for the picture to get brighter/sharper and it didn't. Sales person said but look how much black contrast there is in the picture. Trust me it was nothing like the SI BDII shown here. My old Infocus SP-4805 and Sony VPL-AW10 with Panamorphic lens was far more enjoyable to view and brighter. I must say I was ready to buy SI today. I will look else ware for another AV SI demo somewhere before deciding. This was a real disappointment. I have learned to have hands on experience before spending for expensive equipment aside from online demo ads.
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post #22 of 61 Old 08-31-2010, 06:59 AM
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Quote:
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I was sold on BDII until yesterday. I found a AV store to demo it setup in a closed dark room. The projector was a JVC -350. I kept waiting for the picture to get brighter/sharper and it didn't. Sales person said but look how much black contrast there is in the picture. Trust me it was nothing like the SI BDII shown here. My old Infocus SP-4805 and Sony VPL-AW10 with Panamorphic lens was far more enjoyable to view and brighter. I must say I was ready to buy SI today. I will look else ware for another AV SI demo somewhere before deciding. This was a real disappointment. I have learned to have hands on experience before spending for expensive equipment aside from online demo ads.

It will never look like the pic i posted overexposed to show the dark bars on widescreen films. Tell us how the bars looked compared to your white screen on your virtually same spec Sony as the JVC Lamp hours?. The screen will not increase sharpness or contrast just control scatter light more effectively.
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post #23 of 61 Old 08-31-2010, 11:07 AM
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Kevin thanks for responding to my comments. On my white screen I have no bars using my Panamorphic Lens which my wife and I prefer. Also with my OPPO BD-83SE bluray, it has an excellent video chip and allows sub-titles if any to appear in the display. I called the AV dealer and he said the JVC -350 had few hours on it but that the only thing he had setup to display was a recorded soccer game from Direct TV. They had no Bluray to connect to at that time in that room. I'll check back with them when they do.
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post #24 of 61 Old 08-31-2010, 12:43 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Kevin thanks for responding to my comments. On my white screen I have no bars using my Panamorphic Lens which my wife and I prefer. Also with my OPPO BD-83SE bluray, it has an excellent video chip and allows sub-titles if any to appear in the display. I called the AV dealer and he said the JVC -350 had few hours on it but that the only thing he had setup to display was a recorded soccer game from Direct TV. They had no Bluray to connect to at that time in that room. I'll check back with them when they do.

The other thing to keep in mind on the direct tv receiver is how old it is and the feed could have been poor...
I myself am a huge fan of dish network and there receivers are far superior than direct tvs unit ... but thats a entire different discussion.....lol
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post #25 of 61 Old 08-31-2010, 02:38 PM
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Beware of Black Diamond demos that wow you for a brief period in the showroom, but when you get it home and live with it for a while, you start to see all sorts of artifacts that make it hard to watch very long.
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post #26 of 61 Old 08-31-2010, 02:57 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Originally Posted by Pete View Post

Beware of Black Diamond demos that wow you for a brief period in the showroom, but when you get it home and live with it for a while, you start to see all sorts of artifacts that make it hard to watch very long.

Intresting ...................
WHat screen would you recommend for my set up ?
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post #27 of 61 Old 09-01-2010, 01:17 AM
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So I just ordered the Firehawk G3 screen today sight unseen unless the ones on this forum count. Kevin's pics look outstanding and show deep blacks. Any tips when I go to mount this up on the wall?
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post #28 of 61 Old 09-01-2010, 05:52 AM - Thread Starter
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cliffside View Post

So I just ordered the Firehawk G3 screen today sight unseen unless the ones on this forum count. Kevin's pics look outstanding and show deep blacks. Any tips when I go to mount this up on the wall?

what size did you go with, what projector( if not new please mention bulb life)
please post pic's of your firehawk when you get it set up...
Thanks
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post #29 of 61 Old 09-02-2010, 01:17 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Okay asked both Stewart & SI to provide me with pics of there screens in action,,,
Stewart just sent me the pic below and i should have something from SI tomorrow,....
LL
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post #30 of 61 Old 09-03-2010, 01:40 AM
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I've ordered the 100" screen to go with my Pioneer projector. The dealer I spoke with explained that for my room set and this particular projector that anything larger would be inappropriate. He also said that when you spend a couple of hours or more in front of the screen you don't want to feel like you need to step further back in the room to be comfortable.
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