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New High Contrast High Power Discussion Thread

48K views 428 replies 66 participants last post by  stephenbr 
#1 ·
 http://www.da-lite.com/products/sele...viewMode=front

Quote:
High Contrast High Power



This revolutionary screen surface provides a unique combination of high gain along with contrast enhancement due to its grey base and highly reflective top surface. The result is a screen surface with moderate viewing angles and the ability to reflect light back towards the source. These characteristics make this surface an excellent choice for environments with a moderate amount of ambient light and a projector which is placed on a table top or in the same horizontal viewing plane as the audience. Flame retardant and mildew resistant. Viewing Angle: 20° Gain: 2.4

...discuss


I figure rather then mess up the other HP thread even further , keep things here?
 
#202 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by G-Rex /forum/post/21225660


Airscapes, what projector are you using?

HC3000 but my screen is very small so I get 30fl on low lamp in the sweet spot.. I am not saying the HCHP is bad, just not something I would want after the living with the 2.8. Samples don't tell the complete story but there is no reason not to check them out since they are free.

Also once a projector is calibrated in the environment with HP the image is very natural and accurate. I am not really bothered by the raised black. This could be due to the small screen size and the over all pop of DLP.
 
#203 ·
Great to hear the screen is working out so well for you. But...

Quote:
Originally Posted by greg1292 /forum/post/21218968


The HCHP screen has deeper blacks and more depth and shadow detail back into the screen

That type of description can be confusing especially for people trying to learn about screens. What you describe are not attributes of a screen - they are attributes of a particular projector in a particular room on particular settings etc. Someone else may be getting deeper black levels and/or better shadow detail with the original HP screen, depending on their projector/settings/room.


I only point this out so some readers don't get confused that screens come with attributes like "displaying deeper black levels/better shadow detail, depth" etc.


Cheers,
 
#205 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by R Harkness /forum/post/21226474


I only point this out so some readers don't get confused that screens come with attributes like "displaying deeper black levels/better shadow detail, depth" etc.


Cheers,

If one of the screens attributes is off-axis light rejection and a room suffers from off-axis light contamination onto the screen such as might be encountered from light bouncing off a wall, ceiling, or floor close to the screen then in practise the screens inherent qualities will help maintain the attributes you list. The HCHP was designed for better of-axis light rejection that the 2.4 and 2.8 and it has succeeded. If some don't find this impressive I would suggest doing comparisons with something larger than coaster size samples while making efforts to match brightness levels, otherwise determinations are based on a skewed and rather useless set of references for the purpose of visually evaluating and comparing the screens intended performance parameters.
 
#206 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hughman /forum/post/21227041


If one of the screens attributes is off-axis light rejection and a room suffers from off-axis light contamination onto the screen such as might be encountered from light bouncing off a wall, ceiling, or floor close to the screen then in practise the screens inherent qualities will help maintain the attributes you list. The HCHP was designed for better of-axis light rejection that the 2.4 and 2.8 and it has succeeded. If some don't find this impressive I would suggest doing comparisons with something larger than coaster size samples while making efforts to match brightness levels, otherwise determinations are based on a skewed and rather useless set of references for the purpose of visually evaluating and comparing the screens intended performance parameters.

Though I chose the regular HP2.4, I think I agree with the point you are making here. E.g., if one has light-colored walls and has an issue with side-wall reflected light, the HCHP could be very helpful in taming this. OTOH, if one has more of the black hole type room situation, with dark non-reflective side walls and ceiling, I think the std HP might be preferred; it was for me.
 
#207 ·
My walls are a medium/dark fabric. The ceiling is painted a fairly dark beige and is very tall so its a good distance above the screen which helps to minimizes reflections. Despite this, the normal HP seems to still light up the room. Does the HCHP screen prevent light from bouncing off the screen and lighting up the theater similar to a low gain Black Diamond would?


Could any of you answer my question re the sweet spot of this screen. Do you guys think that my outer two chairs will have acceptable light and be within the proper viewing cone? See my measurements a few posts back. Thanks
 
#208 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by G-Rex /forum/post/21227596


My walls are a medium/dark fabric. The ceiling is painted a fairly dark beige and is very tall so its a good distance above the screen which helps to minimizes reflections. Despite this, the normal HP seems to still light up the room. Does the HCHP screen prevent light from bouncing off the screen and lighting up the theater similar to a low gain Black Diamond would?


Could any of you answer my question re the sweet spot of this screen. Do you guys think that my outer two chairs will have acceptable light and be within the proper viewing cone? See my measurements a few posts back. Thanks

I have black walls and ceiling and the HCHP has less reflected light in a dark room which I was going after but did not want to give up the 2.4

gain. Just wanted a better picture. Last night I watched a movie 10 inches outside the screen with no noticeable drop off. Hope this helps.

As far as black diamond which I sell is the light rejection king but I don't

like the increased artifacts intoduced into the screen by the 1.4BD.

To me the HCHP is a cross between a JKP/BD/HP just an opinion.
 
#209 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by greg1292 /forum/post/21228236


I have black walls and ceiling and the HCHP has less reflected light in a dark room which I was going after but did not want to give up the 2.4

gain. Just wanted a better picture. Last night I watched a movie 10 inches outside the screen with no noticeable drop off. Hope this helps.

As far as black diamond which I sell is the light rejection king but I don't

like the increased artifacts intoduced into the screen by the 1.4BD.

To me the HCHP is a cross between a JKP/BD/HP just an opinion.

Interesting.. did you calibrate your projector off the screen using a high quality meter since installing the HCHP? It would be interesting to see how much if any the brightness needs to be change and if there is any major color shift.
 
#210 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by greg1292 /forum/post/0



I have black walls and ceiling and the HCHP has less reflected light in a dark room which I was going after but did not want to give up the 2.4

gain. Just wanted a better picture. Last night I watched a movie 10 inches outside the screen with no noticeable drop off. Hope this helps.

As far as black diamond which I sell is the light rejection king but I don't

like the increased artifacts intoduced into the screen by the 1.4BD.

To me the HCHP is a cross between a JKP/BD/HP just an opinion.

It does help...thanks. I don't know that much with regard to the JKP Affinity screens. I will read up on it. The sheen and the fairly narrow viewing angle ruled out the BD 1.4.
 
#211 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hughman /forum/post/21227041


If one of the screens attributes is off-axis light rejection and a room suffers from off-axis light contamination onto the screen such as might be encountered from light bouncing off a wall, ceiling, or floor close to the screen then in practise the screens inherent qualities will help maintain the attributes you list.

Yes, exactly. It's all those caveats that are important. "better black levels and shadow detail" are not qualities inherent to the screen. Rather, characteristics of the screen can help one realize better black levels (and better ANSI) under certain conditions - depending on room reflectivity, the projector, picture settings, ambient light etc.


This is supposed to be a place were we educate ourselves about the science and realities of how our equipment works. Unless we make these distinctions, at least sometimes, people will not be educated, but instead will pick up fallacious concepts (which I don't think helps anyone).


The Stewart Firehawk has similar attributes as the HCHP screen, insofar as it is a darker substrate, has gain coating, rejects off axis light and aims the light toward the viewer (although in an angular reflective manner). So someone not understanding how projection works may want to say "The Firehawk will inherently give you deeper black levels, better shadow detail and better image depth."


Yet the image on my 1.3 gain white screen (Stewart ST-130) is better in all those respects (black level, shadow detail, image pop and depth) than on a projector demo I watched on Stewart Firehawk screen, last week.


Why? It has to do with the combination of screen, screen size, room reflectivity, projector, picture settings etc.


This would be puzzling if one had the misunderstanding that black levels and shadow detail were inherently better on a specialty darker screen (like the Firehawk or HCHP). But it makes complete sense when we understand that those PQ's aren't inherent to screens themselves, but to the combination of variables that we need to understand when setting up a projection system.


(BTW, the idea that dark specialty screens "inherently" produce deeper blacks and a more dimensional image seems so widespread that even people who do AV for a living can fall for it. For instance, a local large AV retailer/installer company had raved for quite a while about the image they were getting using the Black Diamond screens with their clients. They thought the screens made black levels and image depth look amazing, and they talked about this as if these were attributes of the screen itself. Then they came to my house and saw the JVC projector - a product they sell as well - in my room, on my regular 1.3 gain white screen and were completely blown away. Said they'd never seen anything quite like it in terms of pretty much all the PQ parameters and made them start re-thinking their views on screens again. Why? I have a room optimized to get the best out of the projected image...which reminded them that many of the qualities they were imparting to the Black Diamond screens weren't inherent to the screen, but were the result of all the variables of room/projector etc).


Hughman, I'm not telling you things you don't know, of course. I'm just making a pitch for the educational virtues of being more precise in how we talk about these things. At least occasionally I think it's worth untangling these concepts from the way many of us describe equipment on this forum.


Cheers,
 
#214 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by cpage /forum/post/21230075


given the same projector, environment, and screen would a darker screen not produce a deeper black?

With the same projector settings it would for absolute black, but it gets a little complicated depending on things like whether talking about black when the whole screen is supposed to be black, or black in bright mixed images.


As an example of a case that might not be obvious as far as the effects on blacks, consider a screen with 1.0 gain against a screen that is the same in most ways except 2.0 gain and using a projector that has a lens iris (but not a dynamic iris) . If the images with the 1.0 gain screen are too dim to close the iris down then the brighter screen could actually end up with better absolute blacks at the same white level because closing an iris in the projector can improve the on/off CR (which by definition means darker absolute black for the same white level).


Years ago a Sharp projector with a High Power screen could give a good real world example of this since the bright mode for the projector could be a little more than 1000:1, while the dimmer high contrast mode could be close to 4000:1. In many setups the high contrast mode was just too dim for people if they didn't use a screen with gain and so they would have to give up deeper absolute blacks if they didn't go with a higher gain screen.


The High Contrast High Power should be one of the best screens out there for retaining ANSI CR (so retaining dark blacks in bright mixed images) to a viewer sitting in a high gain position in a room with reflections and rejecting off axis ambient light. For ANSI CR it has 2 properties to help, the directionality and the gray layer. Much like the Firehawk from years ago, except with retro-reflectivity in the High Power and a more aggressive gain layer.


The Optoma Graywolf was the best screen I've had for retaining ANSI CR, but the screen itself was very visible. The HCHP is much better in that regard and seems like a great screen for just the right setup. With the gain dropping even faster than the white HP as a person gets off angle it definitely has its limits though. I'll mention that as with the white HP I doubt there is some magic angle where the screen is all of a sudden unacceptable when it was acceptable a few degrees away. It is just a curve with drop-off.


--Darin
 
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#215 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by airscapes /forum/post/21228259


Interesting.. did you calibrate your projector off the screen using a high quality meter since installing the HCHP? It would be interesting to see how much if any the brightness needs to be change and if there is any major color shift.

I did need to change the color to 0 settings and I use Arts (RGB) settings from the review of the RS2 and did need to redo the gamma settings. Brightness 0 and contrast 5 seems to work best with the HCHP for me. Before with the HP color -9,contrast -2,brightness 4 and a different gamma setting.


I don't have a meter but the picture is richer and more film like with the HCHP.

Not a screen expert and don't know what these numbers mean in terms of

coming to your own conclusion but am very happy with my purchase.
 
#216 ·
After reading countless post on multiple forums on screens I have decided to get the HCHP screen. My questions is were can you buy this screen with the HCHP material, I havent found a retailer selling it. I have found plenty of retailers selling the HP but not the HCHP. If this has already been addressed I appoligize, I am new to the projector world as this will be my very first system. Thanks for your help.
 
#217 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by JJW03 /forum/post/21247525


After reading countless post on multiple forums on screens I have decided to get the HCHP screen. My questions is were can you buy this screen with the HCHP material, I havent found a retailer selling it. I have found plenty of retailers selling the HP but not the HCHP. If this has already been addressed I appoligize, I am new to the projector world as this will be my very first system. Thanks for your help.

I have bought 2 HP screens over the years from AVS--best prices I've ever seen, great service, and they take your order for whatever size and material you want.
 
#219 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by noah katz /forum/post/21250321


I've also bought two HP's from AVS, service you can count on

Just ordered this screen myself.. Moving from HP 2.8. Will post my impressions once the screen arrives. And while I trust and respect AVS, the price I received on this screen was significantly less than what AVS was asking.
 
#221 ·
Hi,


Im about to buy one of these to go with the new epson 3010, im looking to get a 77 inch model and shelf mount it.


I asked about this to one sales guy to get a quote, this is what they told me:


"For a manual roller screen of this size I would advise you to steer clear of a high gain surface. The surface on a small roller screen will never be completely flat and this can cause noticeable variations in brightness in the image and possibly spoil your viewing pleasure"


is this true?
 
#224 ·
Just installed my new da-lite high contrast high power screen. Two words: Awesome Sauce. I have a Panasonic AW-7000 projector. The image is brighter, clearer and has much more pop than my old matte white screen. I can light up a 133 inch screen with the lamp on eco and the picture set to rec 709 and the image is bright and clear. Another big plus is that 3d is much much brighter when compared to my old screen. If your viewing set up fits it's limitations I highly recommend it!
 
#225 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by ksbarnz /forum/post/21308131


Just installed my new da-lite high contrast high power screen. Two words: Awesome Sauce. I have a Panasonic AW-7000 projector. The image is brighter, clearer and has much more pop than my old matte white screen. I can light up a 133 inch screen with the lamp on eco and the picture set to rec 709 and the image is bright and clear. Another big plus is that 3d is much much brighter when compared to my old screen. If your viewing set up fits it's limitations I highly recommend it!

Happy for you and could of not said it any better
 
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