Enlightor 4k or SMX 4k AT screen - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 24 Old 01-26-2012, 11:55 PM - Thread Starter
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I am down to my final selections on a dedicated home theater and I need some help. The room is 14' x 21' with 10' ceilings. It is light controlled and will be acoustically treated. I will use it for 75% movies and 25% music. It will be a 7.2 setup.

I am using a Runco LS-5 with the a-lens. I want around a 120" 2.35 AT screen. The first row will be around 8 1/2' and the 2nd row will be around 15'.

I would like to put the PJ in my a/v closet which is about 20 1/2'.

What AT screen would you guys recommend? I have heard great things about the Enlightor 4k or SMX 4k AT screens. Would one of these be a better fit in my set-up?

Thanks in advance for your thoughts!!
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post #2 of 24 Old 01-27-2012, 11:47 AM - Thread Starter
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Any thoughts?
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post #3 of 24 Old 01-27-2012, 05:55 PM
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At what I assume will be a lower price point, Elite has also shown a new 4k AT material that should be available on screens in a few months.

http://www.elitescreens.com/index.ph...mid=23&lang=en
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post #4 of 24 Old 01-28-2012, 06:42 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by avtexan View Post

I am down to my final selections on a dedicated home theater and I need some help. The room is 14' x 21' with 10' ceilings. It is light controlled and will be acoustically treated. I will use it for 75% movies and 25% music. It will be a 7.2 setup.

I am using a Runco LS-5 with the a-lens. I want around a 120" 2.35 AT screen. The first row will be around 8 1/2' and the 2nd row will be around 15'.

I would like to put the PJ in my a/v closet which is about 20 1/2'.

What AT screen would you guys recommend? I have heard great things about the Enlightor 4k or SMX 4k AT screens. Would one of these be a better fit in my set-up?

Thanks in advance for your thoughts!!

With your first row seating distance being 1.12 screen widths, I'd say you're a candidate for 4K material. I just got done doing a rather extensive comparison between the SE Enlightor 4K and SeymourAV Center Stage XD materials (SeymourAV represents SE in the states). I was sent some large samples of each, and when I took them out of the shipping tube my first impression was how translucent the 4K material appears in normal daylight as opposed to the heavier and opaque XD material. The 4K material is light, flexible, and thin, with almost no visible texture unless you're within about 6" of it. The XD material is heavy, rigid, and thick, with visible texture detectable from several feet (whether or not the texture is detectable is dependent upon the lighting conditions and one's visual acuity). Note that the translucence of the 4K material yields a slightly lower gain than the XD, and it also is the reason the 4K automatically ships with black backing material (to prevent objects behind the screen from being seen).

I put the samples up on the wall side-by-side and did some A/B comparisons between a JVC RS55 and a Sim2 HT3000E using Kung Fu Panda (to evaluate fine detail as well as screen texture/moire with large blocks of uniform color) and Braveheart. I set up the screen size and seating distance to match the 100" wide 16:9 image I'll have on my 135" 2.37:1 screen and my first row seating distance of 118". In terms of brightness, the XD material is noticably brighter in a side-by-side comparison, but not by a huge margin. However at my seating distance, the 4K was clearly the overall winner. Screen texture was essentially undetectable, there was zero moire, and pixels were easily resolved. Fine detail was well resolved because of the essentially solid nature of the screen. The XD, although brighter, did have some detectable screen texture at my seating distance, mostly during bright scenes, but still no moire. For the most part fine detail was visible, but because of the texture and my seating distance there were some scenes where it didn't appear to be quite as visible as with the 4K. The two screen materials were slightly different colors of white, which yielded a subtle color shift relative to one another during the side-by-side comparison. However it wasn't noticeable when viewed on their own, and it's nothing that couldn't be alleviated by a proper calibration.

I haven't seen the SMX 4K or Elite 4K material, however based on the picture of the Elite 4K it appears to be very similar to the SE 4K; the SE 4K is available now, but last I'd heard in December the Elite 4K won't be available until the end of Q1. If you're going to be sitting close to your screen, I'd highly recommend considering any of the 4K materials.

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post #5 of 24 Old 01-28-2012, 08:02 AM - Thread Starter
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Thanks Hogpilot. I think you are correct in the SE/Seymour line I would use the 4k over the XD material.

Does anybody have any thoughts about the SMX 4K material vs the Enlightor 4k?
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post #6 of 24 Old 01-28-2012, 09:32 AM
 
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I personally like Da-Lite high power. The screen look absolutely fantastic and has an immediate wow factor. Everyone that comes over comments on how gorgeous it looks. IF you have a large budget, I would also suggest a Vutec Silverstar.
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post #7 of 24 Old 01-28-2012, 11:26 AM
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Originally Posted by talkingparrots View Post

I personally like Da-Lite high power. The screen look absolutely fantastic and has an immediate wow factor. Everyone that comes over comments on how gorgeous it looks. IF you have a large budget, I would also suggest a Vutec Silverstar.


The original poster is looking at acoustically transparent screens, so neither the high power or silverstar will qualify.
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post #8 of 24 Old 01-28-2012, 03:57 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HogPilot View Post

With your first row seating distance being 1.12 screen widths, I'd say you're a candidate for 4K material. I just got done doing a rather extensive comparison between the SE Enlightor 4K and SeymourAV Center Stage XD materials (SeymourAV represents SE in the states). I was sent some large samples of each, and when I took them out of the shipping tube my first impression was how translucent the 4K material appears in normal daylight as opposed to the heavier and opaque XD material. The 4K material is light, flexible, and thin, with almost no visible texture unless you're within about 6" of it. The XD material is heavy, rigid, and thick, with visible texture detectable from several feet (whether or not the texture is detectable is dependent upon the lighting conditions and one's visual acuity). Note that the translucence of the 4K material yields a slightly lower gain than the XD, and it also is the reason the 4K automatically ships with black backing material (to prevent objects behind the screen from being seen).

I put the samples up on the wall side-by-side and did some A/B comparisons between a JVC RS55 and a Sim2 HT3000E using Kung Fu Panda (to evaluate fine detail as well as screen texture/moire with large blocks of uniform color) and Braveheart. I set up the screen size and seating distance to match the 100" wide 16:9 image I'll have on my 135" 2.37:1 screen and my first row seating distance of 118". In terms of brightness, the XD material is noticably brighter in a side-by-side comparison, but not by a huge margin. However at my seating distance, the 4K was clearly the overall winner. Screen texture was essentially undetectable, there was zero moire, and pixels were easily resolved. Fine detail was well resolved because of the essentially solid nature of the screen. The XD, although brighter, did have some detectable screen texture at my seating distance, mostly during bright scenes, but still no moire. For the most part fine detail was visible, but because of the texture and my seating distance there were some scenes where it didn't appear to be quite as visible as with the 4K. The two screen materials were slightly different colors of white, which yielded a subtle color shift relative to one another during the side-by-side comparison. However it wasn't noticeable when viewed on their own, and it's nothing that couldn't be alleviated by a proper calibration.

I haven't seen the SMX 4K or Elite 4K material, however based on the picture of the Elite 4K it appears to be very similar to the SE 4K; the SE 4K is available now, but last I'd heard in December the Elite 4K won't be available until the end of Q1. If you're going to be sitting close to your screen, I'd highly recommend considering any of the 4K materials.


HogPilot,

I really value your subjective experience with the XD vs 4K!

How do you think the XD would be at 11 to 12 ft viewing distance regarding weave visibility with a 120" wide scope screen?

I would like to use a JVC RS45 with the XD screen because I would like to achieve the increased brightness help over the 4K not to mention that the 4k is over twice the price.

If I feel that the 4k would help with weave visibility and would not be that much lower in brightness then the XD and also considering the possibility of increasing releases of 4k projectors maybe the 4k would really have to be considered... but oh that increase in price, yikes!

Decisions, decisions... this XD vs 4k thing is killing me!


...Glenn
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post #9 of 24 Old 01-28-2012, 06:29 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by avtexan View Post

Does anybody have any thoughts about the SMX 4K material vs the Enlightor 4k?

Good luck getting any type of screen samples from SMX............let alone any 4k material.

I have samples of both the XD and SE Enlightor 4k material.......similar experiences stated above.
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post #10 of 24 Old 01-29-2012, 12:44 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Glenn Baumann View Post

HogPilot,

I really value your subjective experience with the XD vs 4K!

How do you think the XD would be at 11 to 12 ft viewing distance regarding weave visibility with a 120" wide scope screen?

I would like to use a JVC RS45 with the XD screen because I would like to achieve the increased brightness help over the 4K not to mention that the 4k is over twice the price.

If I feel that the 4k would help with weave visibility and would not be that much lower in brightness then the XD and also considering the possibility of increasing releases of 4k projectors maybe the 4k would really have to be considered... but oh that increase in price, yikes!

Decisions, decisions... this XD vs 4k thing is killing me!


...Glenn

The 4k is more expensive, but from my experience at Cedia I think it is worth it. Price is always subjective, but the SMX and Seymour are the only AT screens that would make me think about dumping a solid screen.

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post #11 of 24 Old 01-29-2012, 03:09 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Glenn Baumann View Post

HogPilot,

I really value your subjective experience with the XD vs 4K!

How do you think the XD would be at 11 to 12 ft viewing distance regarding weave visibility with a 120" wide scope screen?

I would like to use a JVC RS45 with the XD screen because I would like to achieve the increased brightness help over the 4K not to mention that the 4k is over twice the price.

If I feel that the 4k would help with weave visibility and would not be that much lower in brightness then the XD and also considering the possibility of increasing releases of 4k projectors maybe the 4k would really have to be considered... but oh that increase in price, yikes!

Decisions, decisions... this XD vs 4k thing is killing me!


...Glenn

To be honest I can't tell you what you'd see, so your best bet is to order some screen samples and play around with them at your visual acuity, seating distance, screen size, projector type, etc. All that stuff will determine whether or not you'll see screen weave texture or moire. Sorry I can't offer a more definitive answer for you.

Regarding the SMX 4K material: are they even selling it yet? Their website has zero information that I can find - I know it's been demoed, but I haven't read of anyone actually purchasing it.

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post #12 of 24 Old 01-30-2012, 12:18 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by avtexan View Post

I am down to my final selections on a dedicated home theater and I need some help. The room is 14' x 21' with 10' ceilings. It is light controlled and will be acoustically treated. I will use it for 75% movies and 25% music. It will be a 7.2 setup.

I am using a Runco LS-5 with the a-lens. I want around a 120" 2.35 AT screen. The first row will be around 8 1/2' and the 2nd row will be around 15'.

I would like to put the PJ in my a/v closet which is about 20 1/2'.

What AT screen would you guys recommend? I have heard great things about the Enlightor 4k or SMX 4k AT screens. Would one of these be a better fit in my set-up?

Thanks in advance for your thoughts!!

I have a similar sized room with a 120" wide Enlightor 4K screen, and sit at 9.5 feet. My comments would nearly exactly echo what HogPilot eloquently stated. I compared it to the Seymour XD material, and could see the weave at my seating distance. At 12' and above, I would have gone for the XD since it's a little brighter. But at 9.5' I could make out weave. The 4K is flawless at that distance.

I looked into SMX at the time, and couldn't get a hold of anyone. Chris Seymour replied to all PMs and emails promptly. Until SMX gets their act together and provides better customer service, they'll be selling most of their stuff through this website. I actually would have preferred them for the more affordable masking system, but wouldn't want a product from a company that I can't get a hold of when needed.
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post #13 of 24 Old 02-02-2012, 04:10 PM
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Just a quick acknowledgement to Chris Seymour and his EN4K product...

I received my new screen and frame today, and I although I haven't had a chance to get it hung yet, I wanted to comment on how good the product and packaging are...

The frame itself is fantastic quality. Heavy, durable quality feel, and the Infinite velvet wrapping is outstanding. It almost makes your eyes cross trying to see any grain to it. I did have time to put together the frame, and it fit together with very tight tolerances... as close to perfect as you could be.

Everything was packaged to the nines. All double boxed, and plenty of bubble wrap and packaging liner to keep everything safe. Separate box, well packed with all the parts and accessories. All the separate boxes fit like a glove in the outer box.

My wife called when the screen arrived at the house, and I thought that I would need to go home to help get it in the house. (All in it was 81lbs boxed for shipping) She just called to tell me it was there, and that it was already in the foyer, so I assume the FedEx guy helped to get it in the house.
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post #14 of 24 Old 02-02-2012, 05:31 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by avtexan View Post

I am down to my final selections on a dedicated home theater and I need some help. The room is 14' x 21' with 10' ceilings. It is light controlled and will be acoustically treated. I will use it for 75% movies and 25% music. It will be a 7.2 setup.

I am using a Runco LS-5 with the a-lens. I want around a 120" 2.35 AT screen. The first row will be around 8 1/2' and the 2nd row will be around 15'.

I would like to put the PJ in my a/v closet which is about 20 1/2'.

What AT screen would you guys recommend? I have heard great things about the Enlightor 4k or SMX 4k AT screens. Would one of these be a better fit in my set-up?

Thanks in advance for your thoughts!!

Give us a call if we can help you with your decision.

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post #15 of 24 Old 02-02-2012, 06:11 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by uscmatt99 View Post

I looked into SMX at the time, and couldn't get a hold of anyone. Chris Seymour replied to all PMs and emails promptly. Until SMX gets their act together and provides better customer service, they'll be selling most of their stuff through this website. I actually would have preferred them for the more affordable masking system, but wouldn't want a product from a company that I can't get a hold of when needed.

+1 @ uscmatt99.

Same experience here. I have contacted SMX several times and each of those through several methods: phone with no response, phone and left messages, personal email and then also email through their own website contact form. I have made over 8 contact attempts and have NEVER had a response from SMX. Apparently SMX doesn't care if I want to drop my hard-earned money on a large AT screen and 4-way masking option.

By contrast, I made a single attempt to contact SeymourAV and got Chris who answered all my questions, and I also see him consistently responding quickly on AVS threads.

I DO care in a quality product, but I also insist on competent customer service. My business has most likely already been earned by SeymourAV for my upcoming screen selection

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post #16 of 24 Old 02-11-2012, 09:44 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by uscmatt99 View Post

I looked into SMX at the time, and couldn't get a hold of anyone. Chris Seymour replied to all PMs and emails promptly. Until SMX gets their act together and provides better customer service, they'll be selling most of their stuff through this website. I actually would have preferred them for the more affordable masking system, but wouldn't want a product from a company that I can't get a hold of when needed.

My sentiments exactly!!

I really want 4 way masking............SMX is the only viable solution due to cost. Try spec-ing a Stewart Director's Choice 4 way masking screen!

I'm leaning toward TAM 2 system, but would prefer 4 way masking. Maybe I can get my lazy buttock off the couch and use Seymour-SE manual masking system. Better yet............maybe Chris has an electronic 4 way masking system in the works!!!!!!
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post #17 of 24 Old 02-13-2012, 11:03 AM
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The Elite 4k screen claims a gain of 1-1.1. Is that likely accurate, or just a number to compete with what others publish? I was planning on going with the Enlightor 4k at 160" wide, but the review I read states a gain of 0.7. That hurts!!..
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post #18 of 24 Old 02-13-2012, 11:13 AM
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I just spoke to someone at Elite and he stated that the Acousticpro 4k is looking like a July or so release timeframe.
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post #19 of 24 Old 02-13-2012, 11:27 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hifiaudio2 View Post

The Elite 4k screen claims a gain of 1-1.1. Is that likely accurate, or just a number to compete with what others publish? I was planning on going with the Enlightor 4k at 160" wide, but the review I read states a gain of 0.7. That hurts!!..


What are the room conditions that you are planning on putting it in?

Ambient light? Wall colors?

I was coming from a 106" JKP 0.6 gain gray screen, to the 137" EN4K. All I see is projection perfection, but I'm in a bat cave.
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post #20 of 24 Old 02-13-2012, 11:41 AM - Thread Starter
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What's going to be the advantage with the acoustic pro over the enlightor 4k?
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post #21 of 24 Old 02-13-2012, 12:01 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ADDUpstate View Post

What are the room conditions that you are planning on putting it in?

Ambient light? Wall colors?

I was coming from a 106" JKP 0.6 gain gray screen, to the 137" EN4K. All I see is projection perfection, but I'm in a bat cave.

Bat cave (basement with no windows) with black front wall and ceiling, dark brown side walls (could/probably will change to black).... but at 160" even the Sony 1000 I just picked up will likely have a problem outputting more that around 12 -14ftL with a new bulb. Not to mention 3D.

I was hoping the AcousticPro would be a true 1.0 gain as the literature says. Have you measured your EN4k gain? Is it truly around .7?
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post #22 of 24 Old 02-13-2012, 12:09 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by avtexan View Post

What's going to be the advantage with the acoustic pro over the enlightor 4k?

I suspect it will be significantly cheaper. Probably like 50-60% or more less expensive based on current pricing between an Elite Acousticpro1080 screen (their non 4k AT screen) and a SeymourAV Centerstage screen (their non 4k AT screen).
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post #23 of 24 Old 02-13-2012, 05:12 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hifiaudio2 View Post

Bat cave (basement with no windows) with black front wall and ceiling, dark brown side walls (could/probably will change to black).... but at 160" even the Sony 1000 I just picked up will likely have a problem outputting more that around 12 -14ftL with a new bulb. Not to mention 3D.

I was hoping the AcousticPro would be a true 1.0 gain as the literature says. Have you measured your EN4k gain? Is it truly around .7?

PM sent
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post #24 of 24 Old 02-13-2012, 10:25 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hifiaudio2 View Post


Bat cave (basement with no windows) with black front wall and ceiling, dark brown side walls (could/probably will change to black).... but at 160" even the Sony 1000 I just picked up will likely have a problem outputting more that around 12 -14ftL with a new bulb. Not to mention 3D.

I was hoping the AcousticPro would be a true 1.0 gain as the literature says. Have you measured your EN4k gain? Is it truly around .7?

I seem to recall .87 from an independent measurement.
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