Screen Advice Please - Seymour AV or Da-Lite High Power - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 20 Old 03-01-2012, 07:38 AM - Thread Starter
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Cant make my mind up between the 2 screens. My room is a bat cave (or will be very soon) so I'll have complete control of light. A larger % of my viewing will be Movies and Games with the final % being 3D.

I'll be able to fit around 100" diagonal in my space. I am worried that with the 30o cone of the High Power the brightness will drop off at the edges and depending on where I am sitting will be lighter at some parts of the screen than the others ? I have a sample of the High Power and when looking face on it is pretty stunning and bright, I think that would help a lot with 3D, but again worried by the possibility of darker area's of the screen. also, anyone else not sitting in the sweet spot will find it not as bright.

The Seymour XD will be fine with viewing distances, I think it recommends 11ft or more to be perfect and to view 100" with my projector (HD33) I'll need to be more than 11ft back anyway. My worry is will it be bright enough for 3D ? Subtracting the rough 20% drop in brightness, a screen gain of 1.0 or slightly less will be lacking for 3D

Any advice is welcome
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post #2 of 20 Old 03-01-2012, 11:01 AM
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The Seymour screen is acoustically transparent and has drawbacks because of this. It is used when you need to place your speakers behind the screen. If not, go for a solid screen.

If you're going for a normal white screen I would recommend screen research solidpix. They have fairly recently released their superb solidpix material with a cheaper frame giving you really good bang for the buck. Stewart's screens are also really good but they are much more expensive.

If you need gain the High Power is a really good choice. It will give you more than twice the brightness of a normal white screen. The HP will not have darker areas of the screen. It is completely uniform. Seating's far off to the sides will be dimmer however.
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post #3 of 20 Old 03-01-2012, 11:39 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SiZMiK View Post

Cant make my mind up between the 2 screens. My room is a bat cave (or will be very soon) so I'll have complete control of light. A larger % of my viewing will be Movies and Games with the final % being 3D.

I'll be able to fit around 100" diagonal in my space. I am worried that with the 30o cone of the High Power the brightness will drop off at the edges and depending on where I am sitting will be lighter at some parts of the screen than the others ? I have a sample of the High Power and when looking face on it is pretty stunning and bright, I think that would help a lot with 3D, but again worried by the possibility of darker area's of the screen. also, anyone else not sitting in the sweet spot will find it not as bright.

The Seymour XD will be fine with viewing distances, I think it recommends 11ft or more to be perfect and to view 100" with my projector (HD33) I'll need to be more than 11ft back anyway. My worry is will it be bright enough for 3D ? Subtracting the rough 20% drop in brightness, a screen gain of 1.0 or slightly less will be lacking for 3D

Any advice is welcome

Please note, your projector will need to be just above (6-20") over your eye balls when seated for use with the HP. 20" is going to be almost no gain.. so 12-14 would be about as high as I would go.. This will require a projector with lens shift.. ceiling mount the projector out of harms way, you will get 0 gain and defeat the purpose of the HP screen.
So set up properly there will be no jumping around playing wii or kinect..
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post #4 of 20 Old 03-01-2012, 03:54 PM - Thread Starter
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20" is not even 2 ft above your eyes, Why would anyone do that ? lol. I can think of a huge number of reasons coming into my head, like 'I hope I dont feel like a stretch' or 'Mind keep your head down when you stand up' lol, absolutely crazy.

I have the Seymour sample too, its still a very good screen even if its not for speaker positioning. I think I'll stay with that.
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post #5 of 20 Old 03-01-2012, 03:56 PM - Thread Starter
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I read Tryg's review of the Da-Lite HP and from his first pic, there is no way his head on that Chair is 20" of less from the projector.

I'm a bit confused now.
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post #6 of 20 Old 03-01-2012, 05:37 PM
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The closer your eyes are to the projector's lens the brighter the pic will be. My projector is behind the back row just about 2ft above eve level in the front row. It's out of the way and no one is going to damage the projector. Having said that you can't just stretch in the front row without the pic on the screen being affected. I just tell others not to do that and there really aren't any issues. I used to have the projector on a mount and about 3 feet or so above eye level just behind the front row but I was always concerned about someone bumping their head on the projector so it was moved.

The only time I ever notice one portion of the screen where the brightness is uneven is in the corners on the preview screen (but this could be my installation job). The brightness gain you get far exceeds any of these types of concerns and not to mention I always wonder why people really care about every seat getting the exact same picture as the chances of every guest (or family member) being as picky as most of us here at AVS is highly unlikely.
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post #7 of 20 Old 03-01-2012, 05:46 PM
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The HP screen is a good screen, even in a batcave. I actually have a neutral and HP screen in my theater. I watch the same movie on both of sometimes. Can't make up my mind, which is better. My HP screen is 120in and my neutral gain screen is 100in. Overall the neutral gain screen brings out the extra details and sharpness to the picture. With your projector it will be bright enough. But if you can shelf mount the projector, the HP screen will be plasma like. So, it depends on what you want. 3D, gaming, and just having a bright plasma like image will benefit the HP screen. The neutral screen, give you a better picture if you watch high quality movies, like blu rays, a better viewing cone, and a sharper image. I would pass on the AT screen and go with a Carada, Da Lite, or if you are looking for a budget neutral screen, go for a Visual Apex screen.
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post #8 of 20 Old 03-01-2012, 05:48 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by xb1032 View Post

The closer your eyes are to the projector's lens the brighter the pic will be. My projector is behind the back row just about 2ft above eve level in the front row. It's out of the way and no one is going to damage the projector. Having said that you can't just stretch in the front row without the pic on the screen being affected. I just tell others not to do that and there really aren't any issues. I used to have the projector on a mount and about 3 feet or so above eye level just behind the front row but I was always concerned about someone bumping their head on the projector so it was moved.

The only time I ever notice one portion of the screen where the brightness is uneven is in the corners on the preview screen (but this could be my installation job). The brightness gain you get far exceeds any of these types of concerns and not to mention I always wonder why people really care about every seat getting the exact same picture as the chances of every guest (or family member) being as picky as most of us here at AVS is highly unlikely.

I let some know that its brighter toward the middle and they don't care. They still love the big picture wherever they sit
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post #9 of 20 Old 03-02-2012, 02:08 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SiZMiK View Post

I read Tryg's review of the Da-Lite HP and from his first pic, there is no way his head on that Chair is 20" of less from the projector.

I'm a bit confused now.

It's not as bad as no gain at 20''. Use this calculator to see what gain you would get in your setup.

Put in this data in the calculator:

ON-AXIS GAIN: 2.4

MAX VIEWING ANGLE (ONE SIDE): 30 DEGREES (AT ONE-HALF THE ON-AXIS GAIN)*

GAIN AT MAX VIEWING ANGLE: 1.2

MIN OFF AXIS GAIN: 0.9
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post #10 of 20 Old 03-02-2012, 02:12 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SiZMiK View Post

I have the Seymour sample too, its still a very good screen even if its not for speaker positioning. I think I'll stay with that.

The thing is - you can get a screen that has both better image quality and is cheaper than the Seymour if you don't care about speakers behind the screen. Of course you do what you want.
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post #11 of 20 Old 03-02-2012, 04:28 AM - Thread Starter
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Told you I cant make up my mind, I'm now swaying toward the HP screen again after another look in the room. I think i could get it positioned really well.

I'll have to make a decision soon, thanks to all thats helped so far.
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post #12 of 20 Old 03-02-2012, 05:08 AM
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Please note that the HP 2.8 gain screen that Tryg reviewed is no longer made.
The current version is a different manufacturing process and a completely different fabric surface. I own the HP 2.8 and I had the 2.4 side by side. The 2.8 had considerably more gain than the 2.4 way more than .4 and at a different curve. So that original review has some parts in it that are no longer quite as true as they were. If you want real gain you are going to have to get close to the center of the cone with a just over the head shot from the projector. Will it look bad at 3 ft, nope, but you will not be getting the befits that you bought it for..
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post #13 of 20 Old 03-02-2012, 07:13 AM
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The new 2.4 is less sensitive to viewing angles and will give you a brighter image than the older HP2.8 when the PJ is mounted high above your head.

I have both the HP2.4 and the HCHP at home. The viewing cone of the HP2.4 isn't that bad actually and definitely wider than the 2.8 sample I have. The image is still way brighter than a 1.0 gain white screen even quite far out to the sides and it never gets much below 1.0. Even at 3 ft above your head it will give you a significant brightness advantage to a normal screen. I would never mount a PJ so high with the HCHP though, it's much more picky with projector and seating placement.
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post #14 of 20 Old 03-15-2012, 07:59 AM - Thread Starter
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I have been going back and forth and cant commit to a screen. I originally thought the HP then the Seymour then the HP and now I'm back to square one.

The HP I think with the middle seat will be fine but the outer seats will start to see a drop in brightness. I put the sample up to the middle of my current screen, sat face on which looked great, then moved 2-3 paces to the right and it was back to normal brightness. That is not going to work. I dont know how other people put up with it but its definately not suitable for viewing at a fairly close range (roughly 3M away)

But I love the brightness of it, is there any other screen material with a high gain but a wider viewing angle ? I like the Seymour, but when you look at the HP and then the Seymour its dull in comparison, that does not take anything away from the Seymour itself as I think its very good.
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post #15 of 20 Old 03-16-2012, 08:11 AM - Thread Starter
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Would the seymour xd be even brighter in a totally blackened out room like a batcave ?
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post #16 of 20 Old 03-16-2012, 08:23 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SiZMiK View Post

I have been going back and forth and cant commit to a screen. I originally thought the HP then the Seymour then the HP and now I'm back to square one.

The HP I think with the middle seat will be fine but the outer seats will start to see a drop in brightness. I put the sample up to the middle of my current screen, sat face on which looked great, then moved 2-3 paces to the right and it was back to normal brightness. That is not going to work. I dont know how other people put up with it but its definately not suitable for viewing at a fairly close range (roughly 3M away)

But I love the brightness of it, is there any other screen material with a high gain but a wider viewing angle ? I like the Seymour, but when you look at the HP and then the Seymour its dull in comparison, that does not take anything away from the Seymour itself as I think its very good.

Do you have any hair left? It can be maddening to decide. At times like this I do two things: start writing down the pros and cons of each; then take my time deciding. I will take a few days to process all the factors so that the stress level is low. Somehow, a good decision is distilled in the end. "Stay calm and carry on."

I would say that you have two very different screens in contention here. Both make very good pictures, but are designed to meet certain needs and/or performance goals. I think you would be wise to reverse the direction you are on. Rather than picking a product and building your priorities around it/them, you would be wise to priortize your performance expectations, then select the product(s) that will create the performance you expect.

Deciding how close you want to sit based on the experience you will have is a better criterea for chosing a screen than the visibility of the weave in an AT screen. Ten feet from a 100" wide 1.78 screen will give you about a 40 degree viewing angle. That's just a few degrees shy of the SMPTE nominal angle and renders a good experience. I regularly use either Seymour XD or Dragonfly Acoustiweave at 10' with no problem. Okay, if you have 20/10 distant vision, you might.

On the same approach of achieving a nominal experience, screen/sound association (or vice versa) has a strong impact on the experience. When the screen is large enough to occupy as much of our field of vision as it does in your case at 10', then it is very obvious when the center speaker is below or above the screen; the disassociation of voices from the speaking person is very obvious. For that reason, I am a very strong propenent of AT screens. The left and right can flank the screen or be just inside the image edge and work great, but having that center near the center of the screen is natural and impressive.

Another case for AT screens is that it gives you the opportunity to utilize a bit of acoustic treatment behind the screen between your speakers. A non-AT screen is a significant reflector of sound above about 500 Hz or so.

A factor that you will have to evaluate is whether the seating at 10' puts you in a nominal acoustic position for LF. That is a factor of room proportions and placement. Sometimes the two (nominal location for image vs nominal location for LF acoustic modes) come in conflict in small rooms. Hopefully, there is a reasonable compromise, but we don't know much about your room.

Finally, regarding the HP screen, one thing that has not been mentioned is throw ratio in relation to angular reflection and your seating location. The farther your throw is, the less sensitivity to projector height. It's all about angle. At a 15' throw and a 10' viewing distance, the angular reflectance "window" will be small. If your throw is from >20', it is less sensitive to placement and a gain screen will appear more uniform in luminance.

Good luck.
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post #17 of 20 Old 03-16-2012, 08:41 AM - Thread Starter
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Hi Cam Man, thank-you for the response. The length of my room is 5m, it will be a garage conversion to a batcave. I will have 2 rows of seats rear row will be 0.8m leaving me with 4.2m to play with and the next row will be 1m, my head will of course be mid to that so my viewing I would imagine will be around 3.5m away from the screen. PJ Central states for me to have 100" diagonal (16:9) The projector itself will need to be 11' 10" away which is roughly 3.6m away. If I have the PJ down and close to my head then the people at the rear seats (which will be higher as they sit on a plinth to be able to see over the chairs in front) will be staring into a projector. Not good.

I have been wondering about what you said, lets say I have the projector a little higher would being 3.5m back and almost 4.5m back for each seats viewing, would that make the screen uniform ?

The AT material is very appealing too, having the front 3 speakers completely hidden is certainly a bonus.

Your idea of writing down pro's and cons of both is a very good idea, thanks, I'll start to do this.
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post #18 of 20 Old 03-16-2012, 10:28 AM
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I'm not sure I follow your description, but I'd recommend that you do a scale side elevation drawing of your room. It doesn't have to be elaborate, but it will give you an idea of where things (projector, screen, seating rows) are and their relationship. I would start by suggesting that, if your projector can cover your 100" diagonal screen from the back of the room on a wall shelf or ceilling mount, go with that. It kind of gets it out of the way and gives you a healthy longer throw (but 5m is not particularly long). In the drawing you will be able to see the angle of reflectance of the projector to the screen to your eyes on the two rows, etc. You will also see what you need for clearance for your speakers behind your screen and how that affects the screen apparent size and distance for weave detection. Remember, unlike with microperf, you don't need any significant clearance between an AT weave and your speakers.

Clearly in a room this size, one of the rows is going to be a "compromise." Either the front row is going to be a bit close, with the second row the real pleaser, or the front row will be near nominal with the second row being the one with the "comfortable" view. Surprisingly, both are enjoyable, so don't worry too much about that. If you can pull it off, I'd vote for the latter scenario.
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post #19 of 20 Old 03-17-2012, 09:03 AM
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SizMik, you may find this graphic useful. http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...4#post20695274
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post #20 of 20 Old 03-17-2012, 05:53 PM - Thread Starter
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