I am thinking about getting into a screen & projector - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 20 Old 04-19-2012, 09:17 PM - Thread Starter
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I need and would love your input.

I am thinking about installing a screen and projector. This is all new to me and I am not sure what I am doing.

The main reason is: the largest TV that I am able to install is a 55". I am considering the new OLEDs when they come out this year at around $8,000.00 but it is still 55"

Because of my situation, the largest screen I can get in is a 87" wide x 49" high.

I am would be inserting a motorized, tension, 16:9 screen into the ceiling which is 10 feet high. The family room is large and open and my wife and I would sit 15 feet, directly in front of the screen.

Because I can make the room fairly dark I am thinking a white screen over a grey screen.

I just read about "gain" and how too much can be bad. So, possibly 1.0.

Do you see anything that I might change? Once again, size cannot be more than 87" wide.

Any input would definitely be appreciated.

Thanks



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post #2 of 20 Old 04-20-2012, 09:08 AM
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87" is going to be pretty small given the seating distance.

Then again, you are used to a 55" flat screen.

If it were me making the consideration of going to a PJ from a flat screen, given the intial retooling and expense, I would consider what I could possibly do to allow a larger screen. Once you go to a PJ, you will enevitably get the upgradeitis and want a larger screen. It is very easy to go to a larger screen for somewhat minimal expense once you have projector. Go as big as you can up front.

A picture of the layout of the room in question will help in answering this and other questions you posted.


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post #3 of 20 Old 04-20-2012, 09:33 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JimShaw View Post

I need and would love your input.

I am thinking about installing a screen and projector. This is all new to me and I am not sure what I am doing.

The main reason is: the largest TV that I am able to install is a 55". I am considering the new OLEDs when they come out this year at around $8,000.00 but it is still 55"

Because of my situation, the largest screen I can get in is a 87" wide x 49" high.

I am would be inserting a motorized, tension, 16:9 screen into the ceiling which is 10 feet high. The family room is large and open and my wife and I would sit 15 feet, directly in front of the screen.

Because I can make the room fairly dark I am thinking a white screen over a grey screen.

I just read about "gain" and how too much can be bad. So, possibly 1.0.

Do you see anything that I might change? Once again, size cannot be more than 87" wide.

Any input would definitely be appreciated.

Thanks



m

Considering your budget ($8000) I would take the time to start doing the research into all the things that make a front projection setup good. Some things are Screen fabric, Acoustic transparent vs non, room/wall/floor color, projector technology (LCD, DLP, LCoS, Laser/LED with DLP etc etc), audio source, wiring, mounting alternatives, Need or not for lens shift, calibration, etc etc etc. The biggest thing to remember is the room environment plays a HUGE role in projection as there is only reflected light (from your screen) and every other source of light, including reflected reflected light, effect the image.

Unfortunately front projection is a bit more complicated than buying a TV and you can spend $8000 and not be impressed if you don't take all the variables into consideration when planing the system.
Good luck!

Doug

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post #4 of 20 Old 04-20-2012, 10:40 AM
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Yeah, what he said. (That's what I meant, but didn't really convey it well)


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post #5 of 20 Old 04-20-2012, 02:53 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by airscapes View Post

Considering your budget ($8000) I would take the time to start doing the research into all the things that make a front projection setup good. Some things are Screen fabric, Acoustic transparent vs non, room/wall/floor color, projector technology (LCD, DLP, LCoS, Laser/LED with DLP etc etc), audio source, wiring, mounting alternatives, Need or not for lens shift, calibration, etc etc etc. The biggest thing to remember is the room environment plays a HUGE role in projection as there is only reflected light (from your screen) and every other source of light, including reflected reflected light, effect the image.

Unfortunately front projection is a bit more complicated than buying a TV and you can spend $8000 and not be impressed if you don't take all the variables into consideration when planing the system.
Good luck!

Excellent advice.

Added
OPer, if we can help you out with answers to any questions, drop us an email.

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post #6 of 20 Old 04-20-2012, 04:09 PM
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87x48 (EDIT: Opps, not 97x48) (e.g 100" diagonal) is smal from 15 feet away, for me anyway. I use a 120" and first row is 9.5 feet away. Why the limit? if because of speakers, then use an acoustically transparent screen and you can go much bigger. Give a room layout to work with please.

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post #7 of 20 Old 04-21-2012, 08:09 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by airscapes View Post

Considering your budget ($8000) I would take the time to start doing the research into all the things that make a front projection setup good. Some things are Screen fabric, Acoustic transparent vs non, room/wall/floor color, projector technology (LCD, DLP, LCoS, Laser/LED with DLP etc etc), audio source, wiring, mounting alternatives, Need or not for lens shift, calibration, etc etc etc. The biggest thing to remember is the room environment plays a HUGE role in projection as there is only reflected light (from your screen) and every other source of light, including reflected reflected light, effect the image.

Unfortunately front projection is a bit more complicated than buying a TV and you can spend $8000 and not be impressed if you don't take all the variables into consideration when planing the system.
Good luck!

Yes, I have found it is VERY complicated. Thanks for the info. You have made it even more complicated by giving me understanding of all the pit falls.


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Originally Posted by psgcdn View Post

97x48 (e.g 100" diagonal) is smal from 15 feet away, for me anyway. I use a 120" and first row is 9.5 feet away. Why the limit? if because of speakers, then use an acoustically transparent screen and you can go much bigger. Give a room layout to work with please.

I would love to plug in a 120" but can't happen. It's the room and I can't change that.

The wall that would be looked at is 87" wide. To the right of that is the doorway entering into the room and to the left of the 87", the wall angles out with a fireplace.

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post #8 of 20 Old 04-21-2012, 08:12 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ADDUpstate View Post

87" is going to be pretty small given the seating distance.

Then again, you are used to a 55" flat screen.

If it were me making the consideration of going to a PJ from a flat screen, given the intial retooling and expense, I would consider what I could possibly do to allow a larger screen. Once you go to a PJ, you will enevitably get the upgradeitis and want a larger screen. It is very easy to go to a larger screen for somewhat minimal expense once you have projector. Go as big as you can up front.

A picture of the layout of the room in question will help in answering this and other questions you posted.


My thinking is anything over 55" would be GREAT even if it's only a 87x49 screen and we are sitting 15 feet away.

Yes, I understand "upgradeitis". I have done it many, many times with my speakers, receiver, player, TV. I have spent a fortune. I use to own a Denon 5308 and when Denon wanted to charge $1100 to up grade the receiver, I sold it and got the 4311 to get what I wanted, DSX. Yes, once again I sure know about upgradeitis.

But in this case, all I have is a wall that is 90" wide and that will never change


m


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post #9 of 20 Old 04-21-2012, 08:48 AM
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One upside of a smaller screen is a brighter image. A smaller screen can also be paired with a less expensive, quieter, lower output projector.

Keep in mind that it's not just about how dark you can make the room, but also the lightness/darkness of all the surfaces- walls, floors, and ceilings. Reflected light can light up a pitch black room with white walls.

An 87" wide screen will still be a huge upgrade over a 55" TV. Most have limitations of some type- it's all about doing the best you can in your situation.
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post #10 of 20 Old 04-21-2012, 09:38 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DigsMovies View Post

One upside of a smaller screen is a brighter image. A smaller screen can also be paired with a less expensive, quieter, lower output projector.

Keep in mind that it's not just about how dark you can make the room, but also the lightness/darkness of all the surfaces- walls, floors, and ceilings. Reflected light can light up a pitch black room with white walls.

An 87" wide screen will still be a huge upgrade over a 55" TV. Most have limitations of some type- it's all about doing the best you can in your situation.

This is true... except the picture won't be 87' wide if that's the width of the available space.

Note that if you don't use the screen that often (just for the Friday night movie), then you could go a little larger and drop it a third of the way in front of the doorway. It's not fully WAF-approved, but it can work. I drop a screen 6 inches in front of a doorway to a playroom and cover two-thirds of it and we can still easily get by the screen without touching it.

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post #11 of 20 Old 04-21-2012, 09:44 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DigsMovies View Post

One upside of a smaller screen is a brighter image. A smaller screen can also be paired with a less expensive, quieter, lower output projector.

Keep in mind that it's not just about how dark you can make the room, but also the lightness/darkness of all the surfaces- walls, floors, and ceilings. Reflected light can light up a pitch black room with white walls.

An 87" wide screen will still be a huge upgrade over a 55" TV. Most have limitations of some type- it's all about doing the best you can in your situation.

DigsMovies

Good note. Makes me feel a little bit better.

My walls aren't white. They are a coffee with cream type color which might help. Ceiling is a matte white. The floor has a cream tile but covered with a dark rug.

The projector I have been considering is the Epson Home Cinema 5010. Is this good? Or should I be looking at something else?

Also, screen width HDTV 16x9 or a Wide format? That is another quandary??????


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post #12 of 20 Old 04-21-2012, 10:28 AM
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Jim, on screen size.. you have to work with the wall space you have.. I would love to have a 100" screen, but I had to compromise. Either no screen or a portable that is only 65" diag in HD format! On top of all that, I have to set up and take down every time I use it.. that would be EVERY NIGHT, I would watch nothing if I can't have the biggest screen I can get for my space..
I sit about 14' from the screen.. is it big enough? Well, it is as big as I can have so it will due!
Don't get discouraged, take your time, read and read some more, ask questions and don't be in a rush!

Doug

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post #13 of 20 Old 04-21-2012, 12:00 PM
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I think 2' from a 65" screen is pretty close!


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post #14 of 20 Old 04-21-2012, 07:27 PM - Thread Starter
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I went back and if I do, as some of you stated, put a few inches into the door way, I can put a 106" (92 wide), 16:9, motorized, recessed, tension screen in and it will work.

Thanks for making me take another peek.

Here is another question;

Why such a difference in pricing for virtually the same screen????

Monoprice $700.00
Da-Light $2200.00
Draper $2200.00 no tension
Stewart $3500.00

Is Monoprice not really that good?

OR


Are the others way over priced?

need some thought



M

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post #15 of 20 Old 04-22-2012, 05:57 AM
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Not sure, as I am in Canada anyway and they don't ship screens here, but I think the monoprice screens are a cheap vinyl?

We are still talking about a non-AT screen, right?
In the middle of the pack of those prices is the Elunevision Reference screen at $1,250.

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post #16 of 20 Old 04-22-2012, 06:57 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JimShaw View Post

I went back and if I do, as some of you stated, put a few inches into the door way, I can put a 106" (92 wide), 16:9, motorized, recessed, tension screen in and it will work.

Thanks for making me take another peek.

Here is another question;

Why such a difference in pricing for virtually the same screen????

Monoprice $700.00
Da-Light $2200.00
Draper $2200.00 no tension
Stewart $3500.00

Is Monoprice not really that good?

OR


Are the others way over priced?

need some thought



M

Not the same screen at all. I have not seen a Monoprice, but I assume that it is one of the cheaper Chinese screens like you see on Ebay. Someone that has compared the Monoprice screens to some of the others in your list could give you a better idea on how they compare.

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post #17 of 20 Old 04-22-2012, 08:03 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JimShaw View Post

Here is another question;

Why such a difference in pricing for virtually the same screen????

Monoprice $700.00
Da-Light $2200.00
Draper $2200.00 no tension
Stewart $3500.00

Is Monoprice not really that good?

OR


Are the others way over priced?

need some thought



M

Lets take a trip from Philadelphia to California and then up to Alaska, across Canada and down the East coast to Philadelphia.
You will choose a vehicle of the same basic Class from the manufactures below.
Choose the Vehicle you would want to make the trip in if you had no budget limit..


Kia - > Monoprice
Honda - > Dalite
Toyota -> Draper
Mercedes -> Stewart

Now apply a budget limit and the choice may change...

Minor difference that may or may not be important to you exist between fabrics, cases, frames etc between each manufacture. Depending on your taste, projector, environment and expectations these may be worth more or less to you.
Unfortunately unlike a car, you can't test drive a screen!
So all you can do is compare spec, read pro and personal reviews. It is also helpful if you understand the different types of fabrics and means of gain creation. Any type of screen with gain over 1.1 has some caveats that need to be taken into account.

Here are some helpful links
umr's screen fabric report
http://accucalhd.com/documents/accuc...een_report.pdf
Tryg's reviews
see links in this post http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...0#post21895160

Screen manufactures also have knowledge bases and other documents that can be helpful

Lastly most of the major manufacture will send you screen fabric samples at no cost. If you can ask them for larger samples (2x2) they may send them at a small fee. Bigger the better.. free one are rather small but still helpful
Good luck!

Doug

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post #18 of 20 Old 04-22-2012, 09:50 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by airscapes View Post

Lets take a trip from Philadelphia to California and then up to Alaska, across Canada and down the East coast to Philadelphia.
You will choose a vehicle of the same basic Class from the manufactures below.
Choose the Vehicle you would want to make the trip in if you had no budget limit..


Kia - > Monoprice
Honda - > Dalite
Toyota -> Draper
Mercedes -> Stewart

Now apply a budget limit and the choice may change...

Minor difference that may or may not be important to you exist between fabrics, cases, frames etc between each manufacture. Depending on your taste, projector, environment and expectations these may be worth more or less to you.
Unfortunately unlike a car, you can't test drive a screen!
So all you can do is compare spec, read pro and personal reviews. It is also helpful if you understand the different types of fabrics and means of gain creation. Any type of screen with gain over 1.1 has some caveats that need to be taken into account.

Here are some helpful links
umr's screen fabric report
http://accucalhd.com/documents/accuc...een_report.pdf
Tryg's reviews
see links in this post http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...0#post21895160

Screen manufactures also have knowledge bases and other documents that can be helpful

Lastly most of the major manufacture will send you screen fabric samples at no cost. If you can ask them for larger samples (2x2) they may send them at a small fee. Bigger the better.. free one are rather small but still helpful
Good luck!

airscapes

Thanks

Good info and I loved this...

Kia - > Monoprice
Honda - > Dalite
Toyota -> Draper
Mercedes -> Stewart

Yes, (Unfortunately unlike a car, you can't test drive a screen!) this is too bad.

I found the fabric analyses to be very helpful


Thanks

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post #19 of 20 Old 04-22-2012, 10:38 AM
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Can you do an 80 inch LCD tv on an articulating mount that holds it out clear of the size constraining built-in or other size constraining part of your wall?
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post #20 of 20 Old 04-22-2012, 11:28 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Davecraze View Post

Can you do an 80 inch LCD tv on an articulating mount that holds it out clear of the size constraining built-in or other size constraining part of your wall?

No can do. I have looked at re-designing the cabinet and the very best that I can do is MAYBE a 60"

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