Are perforated screens just as good as non-perforated...? - Page 2 - AVS Forum
Forum Jump: 
Reply
 
Thread Tools
post #31 of 73 Old 05-30-2012, 09:21 PM - Thread Starter
Member
 
HomeTheaterGuy74's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2012
Posts: 114
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by BobL View Post

Paradigm S8 - 89db anechoic, 92db in room. Max amp power recommended 200W.

Triad Platinum - 94.5db anechoic, 97.5 db in room, 103.5 db baffle mounted. Max amp power recommended 500W.

I am confused...

According to the Paradigm website:

Suitable Amplifier Power Range 15 - 500 watts

HomeTheaterGuy74 is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #32 of 73 Old 05-31-2012, 05:25 AM
 
BobL's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2001
Posts: 3,797
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 52
Max power and amplifier range are two different things. For every 3db you need to double the power. A 500 watt amp would give you that 3db headroom that the calculator shows, actually this would probably give you 4db head room over its 200 watt max power rating. Clipping an amp can destroy speakers. Driving a 100 watt amp into clipping will probably blow your tweeters on a 200 max power speaker.

It is a little more complicated as it varies on frequency and duration. I'll bet the S8s will handlw more power momentarily just not sustained. The point is you are not going to reach reference levels or close to it with those speakers. Your speakers aren't going to be at 105db all the time. Dialogue won't be this loud.
BobL is offline  
post #33 of 73 Old 05-31-2012, 06:16 AM
AVS Special Member
 
SimpleTheater's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Upstate NY
Posts: 2,696
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 11 Post(s)
Liked: 23
Quote:
Originally Posted by psgcdn View Post

It's a big room. Do you ever watch movies anywhere close to reference level? If not, always 10 dB under, then no worries, get the S8 (I'm Canadian, it helps our economy). If you get close to reference level, don't pick Paradigm.

I always listen at reference level, as long as my wife isn't watching.
Quote:
Originally Posted by psgcdn View Post

I see you are working based on the assumption of price since the Studio 100 actually have a 1 dB advantage over the Signature 8 rather than the other way around.

Most people make the same mistake you do - which is comparing sensitivity (Studio 100's 93db vs Sig 8's 92db). This is an important stat if you have a weak amp, but says nothing about a speakers ability to fill a large room with sound.

Why is there NO perfect equipment, only compromises?
SimpleTheater is offline  
post #34 of 73 Old 05-31-2012, 06:25 AM
AVS Club Gold
 
AV Science Sales 5's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: A beautiful view of a lake
Posts: 7,168
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 115 Post(s)
Liked: 339
Quote:
Originally Posted by mmiles View Post

If you listen at reference then you will trash your ears in a few years and it won't matter what you bought.

In a well treated room with a really good system that is capable of clean reference levels, you would be surprised at just how NOT so loud it sounds. Those 105db speaker and 115db sub peaks are just momentary peaks, nothing sustained.

It is the distance that kills most speakers, when looking for a system that can play clean levels at or near reference levels. Now in an untreated family room, I probably would not worry about having a system that was capable of clean reference levels, because that is going to just sound loud. In a dedicated, treated room, clean reference level output is exactly what I would be looking for. It is a totally different application.

Mike Garrett, AV Science Sales
Call Me: 585-671-2968
Email Me: Mike@AVScience.com

Brands we sell: http://avscience.com/brands/

 

Call for B-stock projectors

Stewart, Seymour, SE, SI & many more.
Klipsch, RBH, Martin Logan, Triad, Atlantic Technology, MK Sound, BG Radia, SVS & Def Tech.

AV Science Sales 5 is offline  
post #35 of 73 Old 05-31-2012, 06:29 AM
AVS Special Member
 
SimpleTheater's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Upstate NY
Posts: 2,696
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 11 Post(s)
Liked: 23
Quote:
Originally Posted by BobL View Post

http://www.crownaudio.com/apps_htm/d...ct-pwr-req.htm

Paradigm S8 - 89db anechoic, 92db in room. Max amp power recommended 200W.
Triad Platinum - 94.5db anechoic, 97.5 db in room, 103.5 db baffle mounted. Max amp power recommended 500W.

So say your seating is 6 meters for your second row and desired level at 105 for reference.

I really like the S8s they are an excellent speaker. They measure well, have a good off axis response. Just not the right speaker for this application. You want something that is effortless when you turn it up.

Bob - I agree with most of what you say, but going to that calculator, putting in the specs at 6 meter distance, even the S8's don't need more than 14 watts to achieve 85db. To say the S8's aren't the right speaker for this application is something I can't agree.

My Studio CC690 center, with all other speakers turned off, can get so loud (and not distort in any way) that I would damage my hearing. I've cranked it with an SPL meter averaging 100db (very short time period - maybe 45 seconds and I was worried I'd damage my hearing). My Anthem amp wasn't even turned up more than a third.

I think the thread starter is getting a lot of opinions but not a lot of answers. There are a LOT of speakers that fit the bill, and like Bob said, get a designer (which you said you already have) that you trust and he'll tell you what to get and all will be good.

Why is there NO perfect equipment, only compromises?
SimpleTheater is offline  
post #36 of 73 Old 05-31-2012, 06:49 AM
AVS Special Member
 
SimpleTheater's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Upstate NY
Posts: 2,696
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 11 Post(s)
Liked: 23
This review is from SoundStage and the reviewers room dimensions were 20ft x 29 ft. Assuming an 8 ft ceiling, we're talking about 4,640 cu ft.

The conclusion:
The Signature S8 has all of the hallmarks of solid engineering and portrays music in a way that's always pleasing, due to its airy and detailed high frequencies, weighty bass and palpable midrange -- among other things. The S8s are at home in a system with cost-no-object electronics, and yet their price doesn't approach that of other top-of-the-line offerings. I can't say with surety that the Signature S8 is the best speaker in the under-$10,000 price range, but my money would be on it, which raises the question of why anyone would pay more than the price of a pair of Signature S8s.

I'll answer my own question: I've reviewed many speakers that cost several times the Signature S8s' price, and I've enjoyed a few of them more. In a world without these speakers, I'd call the Signature S8s my own.


SOURCE

I know, some of you will say reviewers aren't reliable, unlike the guys on AVS forum who hide behind their anonymity.

Why is there NO perfect equipment, only compromises?
SimpleTheater is offline  
post #37 of 73 Old 05-31-2012, 08:37 AM
AVS Special Member
 
psgcdn's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Prov. of Quebec, Canada
Posts: 4,422
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 21 Post(s)
Liked: 190
Quote:
Originally Posted by SimpleTheater View Post

Most people make the same mistake you do - which is comparing sensitivity (Studio 100's 93db vs Sig 8's 92db). This is an important stat if you have a weak amp, but says nothing about a speakers ability to fill a large room with sound.

I also compare maximum power ratings, which were about the same (230W for Studio 100 vs 250W for S8). So... sensitivity and power handling says nothing about a speakers ability to fill a large room with sound? Then please educate me on how it's the superior finesse of the S8 that manages to fill a room better than the studio 100.

psgcdn is offline  
post #38 of 73 Old 05-31-2012, 08:40 AM
AVS Special Member
 
psgcdn's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Prov. of Quebec, Canada
Posts: 4,422
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 21 Post(s)
Liked: 190
Quote:
Originally Posted by SimpleTheater View Post

Bob - I agree with most of what you say, but going to that calculator, putting in the specs at 6 meter distance, even the S8's don't need more than 14 watts to achieve 85db. To say the S8's aren't the right speaker for this application is something I can't agree.

85 dB average, 105 dB peaks. 14 Watts for 85 dB translates to 1400 Watts for 105 dB peaks. For one thing, you are likely to damage your expensive speaker going nearly 6 times over their recommended maximum power handling. Secondly, if you err and go over reference by a few dB, then you are in bigger trouble. Third, if the speaker could handle 1400W peaks, don't expect it to do so without audible compression.

psgcdn is offline  
post #39 of 73 Old 05-31-2012, 08:41 AM
Advanced Member
 
DigsMovies's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Arriving Somewhere...
Posts: 620
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Ignoring all other issues,
I find the Beryllium tweets used in the Sig line
to be

Simply

Spectacular
DigsMovies is offline  
post #40 of 73 Old 05-31-2012, 09:09 AM
AVS Special Member
 
SimpleTheater's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Upstate NY
Posts: 2,696
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 11 Post(s)
Liked: 23
Quote:
Originally Posted by psgcdn View Post

I also compare maximum power ratings, which were about the same (230W for Studio 100 vs 250W for S8). So... sensitivity and power handling says nothing about a speakers ability to fill a large room with sound? Then please educate me on how it's the superior finesse of the S8 that manages to fill a room better than the studio 100.

You're making the mistake that 105 db is coming from ONE speaker. Assuming just 3 speakers (left/center/right), 200 watts into a 92 db sensitive speaker will produce 105 db at a distance of 6 meters (~18ft).

If he is sitting closer than this, if he has more speakers, if his subwoofer is handling most of the load under 80hz, he won't even need 200 watts into a 92 db sensitive speaker.

Considering the Sig 8 can handle peak power of 500 watts (for the short burst of power needed for the 105db peaks) and considering he's putting two subs into his room, the Sig 8's will not have any problem filling that room with reference level sound during a movie. But even better, when listening to music, the Sig 8's will sing.

Why is there NO perfect equipment, only compromises?
SimpleTheater is offline  
post #41 of 73 Old 05-31-2012, 09:42 AM
AVS Club Gold
 
AV Science Sales 5's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: A beautiful view of a lake
Posts: 7,168
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 115 Post(s)
Liked: 339
Quote:
Originally Posted by SimpleTheater View Post

You're making the mistake that 105 db is coming from ONE speaker. Assuming just 3 speakers (left/center/right), 200 watts into a 92 db sensitive speaker will produce 105 db at a distance of 6 meters (~18ft).

If he is sitting closer than this, if he has more speakers, if his subwoofer is handling most of the load under 80hz, he won't even need 200 watts into a 92 db sensitive speaker.

Considering the Sig 8 can handle peak power of 500 watts (for the short burst of power needed for the 105db peaks) and considering he's putting two subs into his room, the Sig 8's will not have any problem filling that room with reference level sound during a movie. But even better, when listening to music, the Sig 8's will sing.

Reference is a single speaker with 105db peaks.

Mike Garrett, AV Science Sales
Call Me: 585-671-2968
Email Me: Mike@AVScience.com

Brands we sell: http://avscience.com/brands/

 

Call for B-stock projectors

Stewart, Seymour, SE, SI & many more.
Klipsch, RBH, Martin Logan, Triad, Atlantic Technology, MK Sound, BG Radia, SVS & Def Tech.

AV Science Sales 5 is offline  
post #42 of 73 Old 05-31-2012, 09:59 AM
AVS Club Gold
 
AV Science Sales 5's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: A beautiful view of a lake
Posts: 7,168
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 115 Post(s)
Liked: 339
Quote:
Originally Posted by DigsMovies View Post

Ignoring all other issues,
I find the Beryllium tweets used in the Sig line
to be

Simply

Spectacular

I still have an old pair of Yamaha NS690 II's that have the Beryllium dome tweeters. Many years ago I talked my mom into getting the Yamaha NS1000's. They use Beryllium dome mid and tweeter. Very exacting speaker. She is still using them today. Great speaker for jazz and classical music, just would not want to try and push them to reference levels.

Mike Garrett, AV Science Sales
Call Me: 585-671-2968
Email Me: Mike@AVScience.com

Brands we sell: http://avscience.com/brands/

 

Call for B-stock projectors

Stewart, Seymour, SE, SI & many more.
Klipsch, RBH, Martin Logan, Triad, Atlantic Technology, MK Sound, BG Radia, SVS & Def Tech.

AV Science Sales 5 is offline  
post #43 of 73 Old 05-31-2012, 10:01 AM - Thread Starter
Member
 
HomeTheaterGuy74's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2012
Posts: 114
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Lol, so, in other words....

Get the JBL Synthesis K2 array for the home theater...

And get the Paradigm Signature 8 array for the dedicated music room...



HomeTheaterGuy74 is offline  
post #44 of 73 Old 05-31-2012, 10:48 AM
AVS Special Member
 
psgcdn's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Prov. of Quebec, Canada
Posts: 4,422
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 21 Post(s)
Liked: 190
Quote:
Originally Posted by SimpleTheater View Post

You're making the mistake that 105 db is coming from ONE speaker. Assuming just 3 speakers (left/center/right), 200 watts into a 92 db sensitive speaker will produce 105 db at a distance of 6 meters (~18ft).

If he is sitting closer than this, if he has more speakers, if his subwoofer is handling most of the load under 80hz, he won't even need 200 watts into a 92 db sensitive speaker.

Considering the Sig 8 can handle peak power of 500 watts (for the short burst of power needed for the 105db peaks) and considering he's putting two subs into his room, the Sig 8's will not have any problem filling that room with reference level sound during a movie. But even better, when listening to music, the Sig 8's will sing.

I keep making these mistakes, don't I?
Quote:
Originally Posted by AV Science Sales 5 View Post

Reference is a single speaker with 105db peaks.

Right. And 115 dB peaks from LFE (not counting contributions from bass-managed speakers).

I still haven't learned how the S8 fill a room better than the Studio 100, and how sensitivity and power handling are not related to "filling a room".

psgcdn is offline  
post #45 of 73 Old 05-31-2012, 10:51 AM
AVS Special Member
 
psgcdn's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Prov. of Quebec, Canada
Posts: 4,422
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 21 Post(s)
Liked: 190
Quote:
Originally Posted by HomeTheaterGuy74 View Post

Lol, so, in other words....

Get the JBL Synthesis K2 array for the home theater...

And get the Paradigm Signature 8 array for the dedicated music room...




I think the JBL Synthesis K2 would excel at music as well as HT. One doesn't exclude the other.

psgcdn is offline  
post #46 of 73 Old 05-31-2012, 12:10 PM
AVS Special Member
 
popalock's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Chantilly, VA
Posts: 3,228
Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 73 Post(s)
Liked: 482
I can't believe the fact that no one has commented that the OP is contemplating 4 Sub 2's...

Granted, the subs would not be behind the AT screen, but I guess you guys are better at staying on topic than I am...

If your willing to throw $100k+ at your equipement alone, there seem to be many other options vs. higher-end available speakers many mentioned here...

I plan on having a similar room dimension as you when we build our HT in the future. To give you an idea, I plan on going with the Klipsch commercial line (Maybe the Jubilees) with "several" LMS Ultras pulling the LFE duties...

When reaching a certain budget threshold, or even in most cases when you plan on using an AT screen to hide your LCR, then I say throw (almost) anything out the window with a nice finish that would serve a dual purpose as a statement piece.

If distance is an issue, why don't you consider having a custom line array built... That could potentially solve seating distance issues, etc... I'm not a line array expert, but that is the primary intent of a line array.

The JBL Synthesis line... I haven't read anywhere that you have any sort of a budget, so why not go all out and do your LCR with the Synthesis Everest.

If you would extend the invite, I would fly anywhere in the country to give that setup a listen!!! =)

 

popalock is offline  
post #47 of 73 Old 05-31-2012, 12:48 PM
AVS Special Member
 
psgcdn's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Prov. of Quebec, Canada
Posts: 4,422
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 21 Post(s)
Liked: 190
Quote:
Originally Posted by popalock View Post

I can't believe the fact that no one has commented that the OP is contemplating 4 Sub 2's...

I missed that. I hope the OP is going to other subforums than "Screens" to get advice about all of that, because the price tag is huge: 4 x 9K$ MSRP? Ouch. 240V line needed for 4500W each! Ouch. I think one sub would be enough, but I'd contemplate something from Danley instead if it were my dollars.

Quote:
Originally Posted by popalock View Post

I plan on having a similar room dimension as you when we build our HT in the future. To give you an idea, I plan on going with the Klipsch commercial line (Maybe the Jubilees) with "several" LMS Ultras pulling the LFE duties...

Heck, I'd love to hear that room!!!

psgcdn is offline  
post #48 of 73 Old 05-31-2012, 01:10 PM - Thread Starter
Member
 
HomeTheaterGuy74's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2012
Posts: 114
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by popalock View Post

I can't believe the fact that no one has commented that the OP is contemplating 4 Sub 2's...

Granted, the subs would not be behind the AT screen, but I guess you guys are better at staying on topic than I am...

If your willing to throw $100k+ at your equipement alone, there seem to be many other options vs. higher-end available speakers many mentioned here...

I plan on having a similar room dimension as you when we build our HT in the future. To give you an idea, I plan on going with the Klipsch commercial line (Maybe the Jubilees) with "several" LMS Ultras pulling the LFE duties...

When reaching a certain budget threshold, or even in most cases when you plan on using an AT screen to hide your LCR, then I say throw (almost) anything out the window with a nice finish that would serve a dual purpose as a statement piece.

If distance is an issue, why don't you consider having a custom line array built... That could potentially solve seating distance issues, etc... I'm not a line array expert, but that is the primary intent of a line array.

The JBL Synthesis line... I haven't read anywhere that you have any sort of a budget, so why not go all out and do your LCR with the Synthesis Everest.

If you would extend the invite, I would fly anywhere in the country to give that setup a listen!!! =)

Ya see, that is EXACTLY why I am on here!

I have never heard of those subs...

All I get a chance to become "familiar" with is the gear that a dealer sells...

And, yeah, I am all over this forum, lol
HomeTheaterGuy74 is offline  
post #49 of 73 Old 05-31-2012, 01:50 PM
AVS Special Member
 
popalock's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Chantilly, VA
Posts: 3,228
Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 73 Post(s)
Liked: 482
Quote:
Originally Posted by HomeTheaterGuy74 View Post


Ya see, that is EXACTLY why I am on here!

I have never heard of those subs...

All I get a chance to become "familiar" with is the gear that a dealer sells...

And, yeah, I am all over this forum, lol

So, I'll take that as an invite. =)

I am a huge advocate for LMS Ultras in sealed applications for LFE duties. With a MSRP of roughly $9k for the Sub 2, you basically said your willing to throw down $36k in that aspect of your setup. I don't know about you, but being able to "feel" the movie or my music is the most enjoyable aspect of this hobby gor me. With that kind of budget you could get something that would utterly embarrass 4 Sub 2's. That's not very hard to accomplish when dealing with LFE.

However, it get's more complicated if you wanted a custom line array built in behind your screen, primairly depending on the components one would use. That's why I would go with the Jubilees I mentioned. They have an extremelu high sensitivity rating (I'm not saying that makes them better or worse) and they can put out something like 127db if clean output.

Some may scoff at my recommendations and say playing anything at those levels is absurd, but at your budget having the headroom to play your music/movies/night club at any volume effortlessly would make anyone a happy customer...

As someone mentioned earlier... "Loud" in a properly designed room is not the same as throwing PA speakers in your garage in attempt to make your ears bleed...

If you have time, keep reading the threads and combing through peoples impressions/recommendations, etc... More importantly try to audition some gear in an environment similar to yours (if at all possible).

 

popalock is offline  
post #50 of 73 Old 05-31-2012, 01:53 PM
AVS Special Member
 
popalock's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Chantilly, VA
Posts: 3,228
Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 73 Post(s)
Liked: 482
Quote:
Originally Posted by HomeTheaterGuy74 View Post


Ya see, that is EXACTLY why I am on here!

I have never heard of those subs...

All I get a chance to become "familiar" with is the gear that a dealer sells...

And, yeah, I am all over this forum, lol

So, I'll take that as an invite. =)

I am a huge advocate for LMS Ultras in sealed applications for LFE duties. With a MSRP of roughly $9k for the Sub 2, you basically said your willing to throw down $36k in that aspect of your setup. I don't know about you, but being able to "feel" the movie or my music is the most enjoyable aspect of this hobby gor me. With that kind of budget you could get something that would put 4 Sub 2's to shame. That's not very hard to accomplish when dealing with LFE.

However, it get's more complicated if you wanted a custom line array built in behind your screen, primairly depending on the components one would use. That's why I would go with the Jubilees I mentioned. They have an extremely high sensitivity rating (I'm not saying that makes them better or worse) and they can put out something like 127db if clean output.

Some may scoff at my recommendations and say playing anything at those levels is absurd, but at your budget having the headroom to play your music/movies/night club at any volume effortlessly would make anyone a happy customer...

As someone mentioned earlier... "Loud" in a properly designed room is not the same as throwing PA speakers in your garage in attempt to make your ears bleed...

If you have time, keep reading the threads and combing through peoples impressions/recommendations, etc... More importantly try to audition some gear in an environment similar to yours (if at all possible).

 

popalock is offline  
post #51 of 73 Old 05-31-2012, 02:35 PM - Thread Starter
Member
 
HomeTheaterGuy74's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2012
Posts: 114
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Well, according to every Sub 2 professional review I have read on the net, everyone raved about the Sub 2 saying that is was their new reference sub, giving it 5 out of 5 starts, naming it the product of the year, etc...

I didn't read one professional review where it didn't get 5 out of 5 starts and the reviewer wasn't raving about it...

So, again, I am only going by what I "know"...
HomeTheaterGuy74 is offline  
post #52 of 73 Old 05-31-2012, 02:51 PM
AVS Special Member
 
SimpleTheater's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Upstate NY
Posts: 2,696
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 11 Post(s)
Liked: 23
Quote:
Originally Posted by AV Science Sales 5 View Post


Reference is a single speaker with 105db peaks.

Thank you. I stand corrected.

Why is there NO perfect equipment, only compromises?
SimpleTheater is offline  
post #53 of 73 Old 05-31-2012, 02:57 PM
AVS Special Member
 
SimpleTheater's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Upstate NY
Posts: 2,696
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 11 Post(s)
Liked: 23
Quote:
Originally Posted by psgcdn View Post

I still haven't learned how the S8 fill a room better than the Studio 100, and how sensitivity and power handling are not related to "filling a room".

It's because anyone can design a high efficiency speaker, that doesn't make it better. Your missing the point about quality of sound and your focusing solely on output. The Sig 8's will fill a room better than the Studio's, not because of sensitivity but because of the quality of the sound. That said, the Studio 100's max out well below the Sig's 500 peak wattage, so they actually do both better - quality and peak output.

Why is there NO perfect equipment, only compromises?
SimpleTheater is offline  
post #54 of 73 Old 05-31-2012, 03:07 PM
AVS Special Member
 
psgcdn's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Prov. of Quebec, Canada
Posts: 4,422
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 21 Post(s)
Liked: 190
Quote:
Originally Posted by HomeTheaterGuy74 View Post

Well, according to every Sub 2 professional review I have read on the net, everyone raved about the Sub 2 saying that is was their new reference sub, giving it 5 out of 5 starts, naming it the product of the year, etc...

I didn't read one professional review where it didn't get 5 out of 5 starts and the reviewer wasn't raving about it...

So, again, I am only going by what I "know"...

As far as conventional subs go, it throws a lot of XMAX and a lot of power at the problem and gets great results. But go with a pro sound company like Danley and you'll get a different kind of solution to the problem: tapped horns. With your kind of budget, don't lock yourself into a conventional sub too quickly. There's also IBs to consider... my oh my.

psgcdn is offline  
post #55 of 73 Old 05-31-2012, 03:25 PM
AVS Special Member
 
psgcdn's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Prov. of Quebec, Canada
Posts: 4,422
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 21 Post(s)
Liked: 190
Quote:
Originally Posted by SimpleTheater View Post

It's because anyone can design a high efficiency speaker, that doesn't make it better. Your missing the point about quality of sound and your focusing solely on output. The Sig 8's will fill a room better than the Studio's, not because of sensitivity but because of the quality of the sound.

I still disagree. Filling a room doesn't mean how fine the sound is to anyone but you, it means distortion-free output.

Quote:
Originally Posted by SimpleTheater View Post

That said, the Studio 100's max out well below the Sig's 500 peak wattage, so they actually do both better - quality and peak output.

There you go again thinking a model higher in the company lineup must automatically play louder. As far as an SPL contest between the S8 and Studio 100, Paradigm don't publish max SPL numbers (that account for compression). If you go by the sensitivity and maximum input power, you get:

S8: 89 dB at 1W and 1m + 24 dB (250W) = 113 dB at 1m
Studio 100: 90 dB at 1W and 1m + 23.6 dB (230W) = 113.6 dB at 1m

That's maximum. I'd bet that compression sets in way before 250W and that the max is easily 3 dB below those numbers.

There are no numbers showing the S8 will fill a room better than then Studio 100 in terms of output. Your 500W number is amplifier recommended max power, not speaker maximum handling.

Now take a 108 dB sensitivity speaker like the active Jubilee, and you need 1/63 of the power fed to the Paradigm to get the same SPL. That 250W translates to a measly 4W.

psgcdn is offline  
post #56 of 73 Old 05-31-2012, 04:17 PM
Senior Member
 
TedO's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Posts: 295
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
One thing to remember about the S8's is that they have a rear port (along with a front port). If you are going to have the up against the back wall or surrounded by sound dampening material it will change the sound of these speakers. The S8's are only good down to the mid 30hz level so you had better plan to push some of that work over to the subs. When you consider both of these factors, you may want to reconsider spending that kind of money on these speakers, because you won't realize their full potential.

In the same price range look at the VMPS RM40. I have a pair and am now a confessed fanboy. I drive these and my VMPS RM2s surrounds and LRC center with a Cinenova Grande 5. The best kept secret in HT. You will never want for power when your using this beast and the SQ is right there with the big names in Hi Fi.
TedO is offline  
post #57 of 73 Old 05-31-2012, 05:06 PM
AVS Special Member
 
SimpleTheater's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Upstate NY
Posts: 2,696
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 11 Post(s)
Liked: 23
Quote:
Originally Posted by psgcdn View Post

Now take a 108 dB sensitivity speaker like the active Jubilee, and you need 1/63 of the power fed to the Paradigm to get the same SPL. That 250W translates to a measly 4W.

You just made my point. Enjoy your high sensitive speakers.

Why is there NO perfect equipment, only compromises?
SimpleTheater is offline  
post #58 of 73 Old 05-31-2012, 05:16 PM
AVS Special Member
 
psgcdn's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Prov. of Quebec, Canada
Posts: 4,422
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 21 Post(s)
Liked: 190
Quote:
Originally Posted by SimpleTheater View Post

You just made my point.

I did? Your points were:
1- sensitivity has nothing to do with room-filling room.
2- that's because you equate sound quality with room-filling, instead of the more common SPL for room-filling.
3- you insinuate that all high-sensitivity speakers have inferior sound quality (and thus less room-filling potential) than whatever you prefer.

Is that correct?
Quote:
Originally Posted by SimpleTheater View Post

Enjoy your high sensitive speakers.

Unfortunately I don't own the Jubilee that I used as example.

(Note: I did cheat here a bit, comparing the S8 to a more expensive speaker, but the same principle applies in spite of price.)

Edit: Sorry for my confrontational tone, but you drew me in with Most people make the same mistake you do and You're making the mistake that 105 db is coming from ONE speaker, not to forget It's because anyone can design a high efficiency speaker, that doesn't make it better.

psgcdn is offline  
post #59 of 73 Old 05-31-2012, 05:50 PM
AVS Special Member
 
SimpleTheater's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Upstate NY
Posts: 2,696
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 11 Post(s)
Liked: 23
Quote:
Originally Posted by psgcdn View Post

I did? Your points were:
1- sensitivity has nothing to do with room-filling room.
2- that's because you equate sound quality with room-filling, instead of the more common SPL for room-filling.
3- you insinuate that all high-sensitivity speakers have inferior sound quality (and thus less room-filling potential) than whatever you prefer.

Is that correct?

Not quite. #1 Sensitivity does not necessarily equate to wattage handling necessary to fill a room. #2 I hope you don't. #3 Yes and no. I like Triads, but I really dislike the brands that have no pro reviews. and rely on bulletin boards to say how great they are.
Quote:
Originally Posted by psgcdn View Post

Unfortunately I don't own the Jubilee that I used as example.

(Note: I did cheat here a bit, comparing the S8 to a more expensive speaker, but the same principle applies in spite of price.)

Edit: Sorry for my confrontational tone, but you drew me in with Most people make the same mistake you do and You're making the mistake that 105 db is coming from ONE speaker, not to forget It's because anyone can design a high efficiency speaker, that doesn't make it better.

Not a problem. I learned from this discussion and that's a lot more than I can say for most discussions. Thanks!

Why is there NO perfect equipment, only compromises?
SimpleTheater is offline  
post #60 of 73 Old 05-31-2012, 06:21 PM
AVS Special Member
 
psgcdn's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Prov. of Quebec, Canada
Posts: 4,422
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 21 Post(s)
Liked: 190
About #1, as I said before, the S8 and Studio 100 have about the same power handling on paper.

True that there aren't mag reviews of the Jubilee for example, but there are some for other high sensitivity speakers such as the Klipsch La Scala II (stereophile liked it quite a bit) and the Klipschorn (precursor to the Jubilee).

psgcdn is offline  
Reply Screens

User Tag List

Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page


Forum Jump: 

Posting Rules  
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off