Are perforated screens just as good as non-perforated...? - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 73 Old 05-28-2012, 08:07 PM - Thread Starter
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Hi:

I am putting together a new construction home theater...

I had planned on purchasing a perforated screen so I could put three floor-standing Paradigm Signature S8 speakers behind the perforated screen.

I have been told by some people not to go with the perforated screen...

Any input?

Thanks!
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post #2 of 73 Old 05-28-2012, 08:25 PM
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Acoustically transparent screens are great as long as: (a) you sit far enough away from the screen that you don't see the perforations / weave (that distance will vary depending on your visual acuity); and (b) you don't need a very high gain, since AT screens typically top out at about 1.2 gain. Perforated is one type of AT screen; woven is another. I have a woven Seymour A/V screen, and love it! I've seen a lot of builds here, and I don't recall ever seeing someone switch from an AT screen to a non-AT screen.


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post #3 of 73 Old 05-28-2012, 08:39 PM - Thread Starter
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Thank you very much!

Great!

The other question regarding AT screens - I was told to put three floor-standing speakers behind the screen (LCR) instead of two floor-standing speakers for the left and right and a horizontal center channel speaker.

I have never seen a vertical (floor-standing) center speaker before...

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post #4 of 73 Old 05-28-2012, 09:13 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HomeTheaterGuy74 View Post


I have never seen a vertical (floor-standing) center speaker before...


You use the exact speaker that you are using for left and right. It creates a more seamless sound field when you use identical speakers, floor standing or not. Any speaker can be used as a center. Most centers sit on top of televisions and ones designed to be placed horizontally are more attractive. With an AT screen, the orientation of the speaker is not important as long as the speaker is designed for that orientation.

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post #5 of 73 Old 05-29-2012, 03:46 AM
 
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Most good companies will sell their speakers indivually. With an AT screen there is no reason to use a mismatched center (even if from the same series it is still mismatched). I bet Paradigm will let you special order a single S8. If not I would go with a different speaker.

You should not notice the weave of most AT screens. The Screen Excellence Enlightor 4K would be my choice if you plan on sitting close.
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post #6 of 73 Old 05-29-2012, 04:51 AM
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I agree with everyone.

I am around 9'6" from an Elunevision AT screen and can't detect the perforations. No issue there. AT screens let some light go through, so they are not as bright. If your room is light-controlled, then that doesn't have to be an issue. Finally, three identical speakers is the best way to go.

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post #7 of 73 Old 05-29-2012, 12:59 PM
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Noticed in the other thread you are looking at Stewart, which is a micro-perf, not a weave. I just installed a Stewart micro-perf and love it. I'll echo what some others have said- it will cost you some brightness, maybe 10% or more. You'll also need to EQ to compensate for the screen. Plan on 10-12 inches from your speakers to the screen material if you go with a Stewart micro-perf. Weaves can be a lot closer. And absolutely go with 3 identical vertical speakers behind the screen. I love my AT screen- having the dialog anchored to the faces on the screen is wonderful. Here's a pic of my screen wall before the screen was hung:


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post #8 of 73 Old 05-29-2012, 01:36 PM - Thread Starter
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Thanks all!

I have decided (I think ) to go with a 14 foot, 2.35:1, Stewart Cine-W, with StudioTek 130, with micro-perf.

And pair it up with a Runco SC-60D with a CineWide with AutoScope lens.

Any input?

Thanks!
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post #9 of 73 Old 05-29-2012, 02:25 PM
 
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That will be a sweet set up. I might look at something more dynamic than Paradigm S8 though if you have a large room. Genelec, Procella and JBL synthesis come to mind.
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post #10 of 73 Old 05-29-2012, 02:44 PM
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I like the 14 foot part.

I don't have any experience with Runco projectors, but they certainly get great reviews by the lucky few who can afford them - and it sure looks like a light cannon!


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post #11 of 73 Old 05-29-2012, 05:14 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BobL View Post

That will be a sweet set up. I might look at something more dynamic than Paradigm S8 though if you have a large room. Genelec, Procella and JBL synthesis come to mind.

I agree with BobL about going with a speaker with more performance. You might also consider Klipsch, Heritage series, Seaton Sound or JTR. Any of these will be able to provide audio at or above the level of video that you will have with your system.

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post #12 of 73 Old 05-29-2012, 05:51 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BobL View Post

That will be a sweet set up. I might look at something more dynamic than Paradigm S8 though if you have a large room. Genelec, Procella and JBL synthesis come to mind.

The room is 18' wide x 26' long x 10' high.

So the three Paradigm S8 in front along with two Paradigm Sub 2 (surrounded by two Paradigm ADP3 for surrounds and two Paradigm ADP3 in the rear) and two more Paradigm Sub 2 in the rear - aren't going to give me enough "umph".

What comparable, or better, set-up would you go with in the Porcella and JBL Synthesis line?

What about the B&W?

Thanks.
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post #13 of 73 Old 05-29-2012, 05:58 PM - Thread Starter
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Just when you think you made up your mind, lol...

Now I find the Sim2 Lumis 3D-S with 3000 lumens and a contrast ratio of 35,000:1... and stellar professional reviews...

The Runco SC-60D has 10,000 lumens and a contrast ratio of 10,000:1...

Which is the better one.
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post #14 of 73 Old 05-29-2012, 09:16 PM
 
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You are looking at an almost 5000 cubic foot room.

For Genelec I would look at the HT210, HT312 or HT315.

Procella the P8 or P610.

Synthesis. The S1, S2 or S3 systems would be fine. The S4 would be a little under powered.

Everything is application driven. The Paradigm system I like a lot but not for this application. The same is true about B&W, although I don't know too much about their CT series.

I'd go with the Runco PJ you are considering.

You are considering some very nice equipment, I suggest hiring a very good HT designer and go over some of the equipment choices with them. Sometimes there are a lot more factors then specs and peoples' opinions. In this price range getting your room done by an expert would be highly recommended.
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post #15 of 73 Old 05-29-2012, 09:49 PM
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Dynamics are important, but the term is often confused with peak output. Within the dynamic range of the S8's, none of the alternatives proposed are any more "dynamic". Higher efficiency speakers with higher output are no more "dynamic" than less efficient, lower output speakers, compared within the uncompressed range of the lower output speakers. This has been confirmed to me by the designer and builder of one of the speakers proposed as an alternative. If one requires output above this level, of course it's a different story.
That said, for HT use, if I was spending the $$$ on S8's, I would take a hard look at the Triad Platinums.
I wouldn't be afraid to mix brands either, and would have no problem mixing Sig ADP3's with Triads up front. In fact, I've done just that! Others will disagree.
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post #16 of 73 Old 05-30-2012, 03:20 AM
 
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Triad Platinums I would also recommend, but I disagree on the S8s. We have measured and used them both. In a smaller room the S8 system would be great! I really like Paradigm just not for clean reference output at ~20 feet away for the second row.

It also depends on how they are installed. The others mentioned can be in a baffle wall but that wouldn't be recommended for the S8 as it is not deigned for it. You get a lot of advantages with baffle walls. This is why I recommend a good HT designer, there are a lot of considerations here you are not going to get by opinions and specs on a forum. No offense to anyone, it is a good place to start.

A properly designed room is going to maximize your performance and will make a bigger difference than debating between which equipment is best. You need to get the right equipment for your application. The HT designer will probably have their own recommendations and I would go with them. Even if you plan to DIY I'd get a set of plans from a good designer to help minimize mistakes and get the most out of your system.
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post #17 of 73 Old 05-30-2012, 11:24 AM - Thread Starter
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I guess I must really have a high regard for the Paradigm Signature line and the S8...

The Triad Platinums are better than the S8
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post #18 of 73 Old 05-30-2012, 11:53 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HomeTheaterGuy74 View Post

I guess I must really have a high regard for the Paradigm Signature line and the S8...

The Triad Platinums are better than the S8

My room is almost 3,500 sq. ft. and I use a Screen Research AT screen w/Paradigm Studio speakers. I absolutely love the sound and if my room approached 5,000 cubic ft, I wouldn't think Studio 100's would be lacking in any way what-so-ever (let alone Signature S8's). You are going to get a LOT of opinions - you know mine when it comes to the JTR speakers, Seaton Sound and Klipsch

Triad Platinums are AMAZING speakers. I can't imagine anyone saying you made a mistake picking them up.

Based on the products you're speaking about, your budget is very high, but even great equipment will sound bad in a bad sounding room. I would strongly rec'd getting a qualified acoustic designer into your house. In fact I would go as far as saying that if you put crappy speakers into a well-designed home theater room they would sound better than any of the speakers mentioned in a poorly designed home theater room.

Make the investment and bring in a pro. That's my 2¢.

Why is there NO perfect equipment, only compromises?
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post #19 of 73 Old 05-30-2012, 01:08 PM
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Do you need the light? Then go with the Runco. If you do not need the light go with Sim2. Also have you looked at the Barco Titan? you can get them in power output from about 3500 up to and over 10K. And these are 2K upgradable to 4K DLP!

I have seen the SC-1 not the newer SC-60. The 1 was amazing and with the brightness it felt like a higher contrast projector than the specs.

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post #20 of 73 Old 05-30-2012, 01:43 PM - Thread Starter
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To answer everyone's question...

Yes, there will be a dedicated home theater designer brought in - but that will be just one point of view - and probably will be the point of view of what he sells...

I would like a lot of opinions - not just the theater designers...

That way I can intelligently (almost ) ask questions and give him new, different ideas as well...
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post #21 of 73 Old 05-30-2012, 01:59 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BobL View Post

You are looking at an almost 5000 cubic foot room.

For Genelec I would look at the HT210, HT312 or HT315.

Procella the P8 or P610.

Synthesis. The S1, S2 or S3 systems would be fine. The S4 would be a little under powered.

Everything is application driven. The Paradigm system I like a lot but not for this application. The same is true about B&W, although I don't know too much about their CT series.

I'd go with the Runco PJ you are considering.

You are considering some very nice equipment, I suggest hiring a very good HT designer and go over some of the equipment choices with them. Sometimes there are a lot more factors then specs and peoples' opinions. In this price range getting your room done by an expert would be highly recommended.

OK, what about the JBL Synthesis K2 9.4 array...

http://jblsynthesis.com/Products/Details/123

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post #22 of 73 Old 05-30-2012, 02:17 PM
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HT Guy,

You got some deep pockets bro!

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post #23 of 73 Old 05-30-2012, 02:21 PM
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I agree with BobL about going with a speaker with more performance. You might also consider Klipsch, Heritage series, Seaton Sound or JTR. Any of these will be able to provide audio at or above the level of video that you will have with your system.

I bet 3 LaScalas would be rockin!

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HT Guy,

You got some deep pockets bro!

lol, there are a lot of systems that cost a lot more...

I just want something that I will be happy with for awhile...

And not want to upgrade every few years because a new speaker came out, etc...

Any input on the K2 9.4 array?

Thanks!
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post #25 of 73 Old 05-30-2012, 04:41 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SimpleTheater View Post

My room is almost 3,500 sq. ft. and I use a Screen Research AT screen w/Paradigm Studio speakers. I absolutely love the sound and if my room approached 5,000 cubic ft, I wouldn't think Studio 100's would be lacking in any way what-so-ever (let alone Signature S8's). You are going to get a LOT of opinions - you know mine when it comes to the JTR speakers, Seaton Sound and Klipsch

I see you are working based on the assumption of price since the Studio 100 actually have a 1 dB advantage over the Signature 8 rather than the other way around.

It's a big room. Do you ever watch movies anywhere close to reference level? If not, always 10 dB under, then no worries, get the S8 (I'm Canadian, it helps our economy). If you get close to reference level, don't pick Paradigm.

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post #26 of 73 Old 05-30-2012, 06:47 PM
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Not heard that system. JBL Synth magic sauce is their eq and room correction. I have listened to "smaller" JBL Synth and was impressed but liked others beter. That's just me.

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post #27 of 73 Old 05-30-2012, 06:52 PM
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If you listen at reference then you will trash your ears in a few years and it won't matter what you bought.

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post #28 of 73 Old 05-30-2012, 07:02 PM - Thread Starter
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If you listen at reference then you will trash your ears in a few years and it won't matter what you bought.

What exactly is reference level
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post #29 of 73 Old 05-30-2012, 08:12 PM
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I think it is 85 - 90 dB with peaks at 105dB. In other words it's pretty loud.

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post #30 of 73 Old 05-30-2012, 08:23 PM
 
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Speakers 105 db, subwoofer 115db. Here is a calculator to help figure amplifier power.
It is a little basic and not accurate for small rooms but it will do for demo purposes of the differences between these speakers. 10db difference is roughly half volume subjectively.

http://www.crownaudio.com/apps_htm/d...ct-pwr-req.htm

Paradigm S8 - 89db anechoic, 92db in room. Max amp power recommended 200W.
Triad Platinum - 94.5db anechoic, 97.5 db in room, 103.5 db baffle mounted. Max amp power recommended 500W.

So say your seating is 6 meters for your second row and desired level at 105 for reference.

I really like the S8s they are an excellent speaker. They measure well, have a good off axis response. Just not the right speaker for this application. You want something that is effortless when you turn it up.

I haven't tested or measured the K2s, so I can't comment.

A good HT designer will not try to just sell you something he carries. He will spec the right products for your application whether you buy from him or not. There are many characteristics of speakers and acoustic treatments to consider. How loud they can play is just one characterisitc.

Unfortunately, we have all dealt with bad salesman that are just trying to push their product on you and this makes us cautious and jaded. A good designer won't do this. It is really the right place to start. I'd look ao getting opinions on a good HT designer first and then once you know the requirements then go over equipment options.
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