Screen Reccomendation needed for Theater/Media room under constrution - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 10 Old 07-09-2012, 07:26 AM - Thread Starter
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Hi All,

I'm in the process of building/converting a room in my basement into a media room. Here are the facts:

  • I've not yet purchased a projector, but looking hard at the Epsons - 8350 or the 5010. I will definitely need lens shift due to not be able to center mount the projector which is why I like these two.
  • The back wall will be painted flat black and the side walls a lighter gray.
  • The room is 14' wide by a total of 40' deep. However, the viewing area is 14x22.
  • The room can be nearly blacked out for movie watching, but will be using some ambient lighting for Sports/Gaming approximately 20% of the time.
  • The (main) viewing positions are 18' back.
  • Screen size is likely to be 135"
  • I'll likely be mounting the projector 17-18' back.
  • My budget is 400-800. I've been looking hard at the Elite Sable series and they seem to offer good value.

Any advise and recommendations are welcomed. I don't really need/want 3D. Thanks for your help in advance.

Andrew
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post #2 of 10 Old 07-09-2012, 12:29 PM
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If you are not interested in 3D, then I would be looking at a JVC RS45, RS45 B-stock or a JVC RS40 B-stock. In best image mode the RS45 is brighter than the 5010 and much brighter than the 8350. The RS40 is as bright or brighter than the 5010 in best image mode. If you are wanting a 135" screen, I would suggest getting a screen with a little gain. Otherwise, you will have short projector lamp life. The JVC's are much quieter in high lamp mode and with that size screen you will be going to high lamp mode earlier than most people. If you have any questions, shoot us an email.

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post #3 of 10 Old 07-10-2012, 11:40 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AV Science Sales 5 View Post

If you are not interested in 3D, then I would be looking at a JVC RS45, RS45 B-stock or a JVC RS40 B-stock. In best image mode the RS45 is brighter than the 5010 and much brighter than the 8350. The RS40 is as bright or brighter than the 5010 in best image mode. If you are wanting a 135" screen, I would suggest getting a screen with a little gain. Otherwise, you will have short projector lamp life. The JVC's are much quieter in high lamp mode and with that size screen you will be going to high lamp mode earlier than most people. If you have any questions, shoot us an email.

Thanks. I'm now looking hard at the B-stock Epson 8700's which seem to fit the bill. As for screens, most in my price range seem to be in the 1.1 gain area. I'd imagine it's not ideal, but appears to work according to the lumens calculator. Thoughts?
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post #4 of 10 Old 07-10-2012, 12:53 PM
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AVScience Sales - he says his room is going to be dark for movie watching, and it's in a basement. I've been to his room and I don't think he needs a heavy duty light canon to fill it. I've not used the JVC's you recommend, but my Epson 8350 is almost too bright even on it's cinema mode with lowest lamp settings on my 104" diagonal DIY screen.

As to screens ---I really don't like gain screens Andrew. I don't think we've ever talked screens or projectors, but after trying several different screens myself and having multiple friends in KC with all manner of screen materials and comparing them all I think the best is a simple white or gray non reflective surface. I had a simple dalite classroom projector that was 110" diagonal. It was a vinyl non gain screen and worked fantastic, until I tired of the roll induced wrinkles. I then bought a $1000 High Contrast Cinema Vision Dalite Elite screen that was 96" diagonal. Multiple friends of mine told me later they didn't like the screen, but didn't want to say anything. I never really liked it that much either. The sparklies were caused by the grain were distracting on bright scenes or solid colors. I've come to realize that most high contrast screens have this sparkly effect. Some people don't mind it. I did, and most of my friends apparently did. I liked my cheap Dalite classroom pull down screen material better than the HCCV screen. My current screen is a DIY screen made with JoAnns black out cloth. It cost only around $100 to build and finish the entire screen and looks the best so far. I bought nice black velvet from JoAnns, framing boards, braces, and steel hardware from HomeDepot and a light duty staple gun. It turned out very nice with no wrinkles or problems. A recent friend who visited my theater asked me where I bought it - thinking it must be a pro screen. The Black Out fabric itself I bought for like $38 with a 50% off coupon making it less than $20 bucks. It is perfectly suited for a projector beam. It has a limitation in size because the rolls are 54 inches meaning that you can have about 51" height - - which is something like what I have. I've heard rolling it with one of the many DIY paint mixes can make it even better, but I'm hesitant because it looks soooo good right now and I really dread any kind of gain on the screen.

Improvements from my DIY screen to screens that cost $5k more that some of my friends in KC have are very small incrementals at best IMO. To put this in terms we both understand -- let's say you could buy a pair of JTR Captivators for $6K, and a pair of SVS PB13 Ultras for $100 dollars. Despite the fact that the Captivators are better - are they worth the extra cost in this obviously silly exaggerated example? Probably not...ESPECIALLY if you are considering buying a cheap $1000 projector like the 8350. Heck, one of the guys I know pretty well in KC, carp, just used a gray flat paint on smooth drywall as his mammoth screen wall (like 150" or something?) and it's gorgeous with the 8350 projector.

Good luck in this! There are a lot of options, and I know of no better time to get a enormous fantastic looking picture for so cheap a price of entry. Consumer projectors are amazing in this era! You get soo much for so little $.

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post #5 of 10 Old 07-10-2012, 01:48 PM - Thread Starter
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Archaea - Thanks again for chiming in. I've been meaning to PM or call you sometime in the next week or so to get your thoughts but this should suffice for now. smile.gif At this point I'm pretty set on the 8700 and will either do a DIY screen or something like a Jamestown in a 130-135" size. I've got a few weeks to decide before I'm ready to hang the screen anyway.

It sounds like I'll be fine with a no/minimal gain screen, especially considering I have a handle on the light situation in my room.

The last piece will be the mount - Maybe I will call you to discuss if you don't mind. smile.gif

Now it's onto more important things, like the sub/speaker/amp setup in the room!!!

Thanks again!
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post #6 of 10 Old 07-10-2012, 02:01 PM
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135" the diag or width? If width what is the format (2.4 / 1.78)?

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ICR [ Sales Consulting and Small Part-Time AV shop, very small...  ]

Process Integration, Inc. [ contract sales consultant ]

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post #7 of 10 Old 07-10-2012, 02:05 PM
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Have you considered doing an acoustically transparent screen and putting your speakers behind the screen? In your space that might work really well??!!?? You could use some of that significant depth of room and have the screen go nearly floor to ceiling.

In this context - some of the spandex materials are a very interesting idea. Some of the DIY guys have had great results with large sheets of spandex available to order online. You can make your screen as large as you want, and still have very good acoustic transmission properties on the cheap. This particular one gets good reviews from the DIY crowd... With the 60" height of the fabric you could do a 120" ish diagonal 16x9 screen and/or an enormous scope screen.

http://spandexworld.com/c3/catalog/product/6409

I would check in with avsforum member carp to learn about how he did his screen. It's the KC favorite in our crowd of enthusiasts. The actors on his screen are larger than life in scope mode. I copied a picture of carp below. He is probably 6'1 or so. So you can see how big it is. Of course it looks awesome with the lights off. This was a recent g2g day where I brought my captivators over and we let the submersives and caps face off in his room....It was a wild day.


http://www.avsforum.com/t/1407184/carps-basement-hide-out/0_50#post_21948854

002-6.jpg

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post #8 of 10 Old 07-10-2012, 06:45 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Archaea View Post

AVScience Sales - he says his room is going to be dark for movie watching, and it's in a basement. I've been to his room and I don't think he needs a heavy duty light canon to fill it. I've not used the JVC's you recommend, but my Epson 8350 is almost too bright even on it's cinema mode with lowest lamp settings on my 104" diagonal DIY screen.
As to screens ---I really don't like gain screens Andrew. I don't think we've ever talked screens or projectors, but after trying several different screens myself and having multiple friends in KC with all manner of screen materials and comparing them all I think the best is a simple white or gray non reflective surface. I had a simple dalite classroom projector that was 110" diagonal. It was a vinyl non gain screen and worked fantastic, until I tired of the roll induced wrinkles. I then bought a $1000 High Contrast Cinema Vision Dalite Elite screen that was 96" diagonal. Multiple friends of mine told me later they didn't like the screen, but didn't want to say anything. I never really liked it that much either. The sparklies were caused by the grain were distracting on bright scenes or solid colors. I've come to realize that most high contrast screens have this sparkly effect. Some people don't mind it. I did, and most of my friends apparently did. I liked my cheap Dalite classroom pull down screen material better than the HCCV screen. My current screen is a DIY screen made with JoAnns black out cloth. It cost only around $100 to build and finish the entire screen and looks the best so far. I bought nice black velvet from JoAnns, framing boards, braces, and steel hardware from HomeDepot and a light duty staple gun. It turned out very nice with no wrinkles or problems. A recent friend who visited my theater asked me where I bought it - thinking it must be a pro screen. The Black Out fabric itself I bought for like $38 with a 50% off coupon making it less than $20 bucks. It is perfectly suited for a projector beam. It has a limitation in size because the rolls are 54 inches meaning that you can have about 51" height - - which is something like what I have. I've heard rolling it with one of the many DIY paint mixes can make it even better, but I'm hesitant because it looks soooo good right now and I really dread any kind of gain on the screen.
Improvements from my DIY screen to screens that cost $5k more that some of my friends in KC have are very small incrementals at best IMO. To put this in terms we both understand -- let's say you could buy a pair of JTR Captivators for $6K, and a pair of SVS PB13 Ultras for $100 dollars. Despite the fact that the Captivators are better - are they worth the extra cost in this obviously silly exaggerated example? Probably not...ESPECIALLY if you are considering buying a cheap $1000 projector like the 8350. Heck, one of the guys I know pretty well in KC, carp, just used a gray flat paint on smooth drywall as his mammoth screen wall (like 150" or something?) and it's gorgeous with the 8350 projector.
Good luck in this! There are a lot of options, and I know of no better time to get a enormous fantastic looking picture for so cheap a price of entry. Consumer projectors are amazing in this era! You get soo much for so little $.

The mode that you should want to use a projector in is best image mode. The Epson 8350 has 467 lumens http://www.projectorreviews.com/epson/home-cinema-8350/performance.php in high lamp mid zoom best image mode. With a 135" diagonal screen you get 54.4 SF. With a 1.3 gain screen you get 467 x 1.3= 607.1/54.4=11.2 Foot Lamberts. That is not enough brightness and that is with using a 1.3 gain screen. Now the Epson has brighter modes like living room mode (1,010 lumens) that has plenty of brightness to light up that screen, but you are giving up color accuracy. What you should be looking for is a projector that can light up the size screen that you want in best image mode. The Epson 8700UB has around 500 lumens in best image mode: http://www.projectorreviews.com/epson/home-cinema-8700ub/performance.php#bright The JVC RS45 has around 892 calibrated lumens: http://www.projectorreviews.com/jvc/dla-rs45/performance.php#bright In fact the RS45 has more calibrated lumens in low lamp than either of the Epsons in high lamp.

Mike Garrett, AV Science Sales Call Me: 585-671-2968
Email Me: Mike@AVScience.com
Brands we sell: http://avscience.com/brands/ 
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post #9 of 10 Old 07-11-2012, 09:43 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Archaea View Post

Have you considered doing an acoustically transparent screen and putting your speakers behind the screen? In your space that might work really well??!!?? You could use some of that significant depth of room and have the screen go nearly floor to ceiling.
In this context - some of the spandex materials are a very interesting idea. Some of the DIY guys have had great results with large sheets of spandex available to order online. You can make your screen as large as you want, and still have very good acoustic transmission properties on the cheap. This particular one gets good reviews from the DIY crowd... With the 60" height of the fabric you could do a 120" ish diagonal 16x9 screen and/or an enormous scope screen.
http://spandexworld.com/c3/catalog/product/6409
I would check in with avsforum member carp to learn about how he did his screen. It's the KC favorite in our crowd of enthusiasts. The actors on his screen are larger than life in scope mode. I copied a picture of carp below. He is probably 6'1 or so. So you can see how big it is. Of course it looks awesome with the lights off. This was a recent g2g day where I brought my captivators over and we let the submersives and caps face off in his room....It was a wild day.
http://www.avsforum.com/t/1407184/carps-basement-hide-out/0_50#post_21948854
002-6.jpg

Actually yes, I've been thinking about going the Acoustically transparent route as well. Trouble is to cover most of the wall I'd be looking at a 165" diagonal screen (81 high and 144 wide in 16:9) which may be difficult to find a single piece of material. If I were to buy one - even lower end like Elite Acoustipro they are very expensive. I'd like to explore that more later but for now I'm going to do a basic 133" white screen to get started. I know once I start placing my speakers and subs (especially) I will probably NEED the space provided by the acoustic so that can be a Phase II perhaps. smile.gif I'm really just looking forward to getting this done and hosting a GTG at my place in the late summer/fall.

Carps room looks AWESOME! I'm sure you guys had a blast that day, wish I could have been there. I'd love to chat with him as well while I'm prepping my room now to make sure I don't miss anything.
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post #10 of 10 Old 07-19-2012, 02:21 PM
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This picture sort of looks like how my room is setup and has me thinking of how big i can go
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