120" screen in a room with 8ft ceiling - crazy? - Page 2 - AVS Forum
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post #31 of 56 Old 07-19-2012, 10:35 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by neveser View Post

I had been looking at installing a 110" Elite CineTension 2. I want to get the biggest possible screen I can. I've done the math and 110" fits very comfortably in my room. I was pricing screens and the 110" is a bit hard to get. The 120" is easy to get (it's on Amazon) and the price is cheaper than what I can currently find the 110" for. So am I crazy to attempt this? The projector is going to be the Epson 3010. The room is 17 1/2 feet long and 12 1/2 feet wide. The screen is going to drop down in front of my entertainment center. The entertainment center is out about 2 ft from the wall so the screen will be mounted about 6" in front of that. Throw distance looks OK in the Epson's manual. I figured the screen with the case and mounts could a minimum of 7" from the ceiling, and the bottom of the viewing area would be about 30" or so from the floor.
If I could pull this off it would be epic. This is my first projector setup and I want it to be awesome. Any words of wisdom from those with more experience than me would be much appreciated!

Neveser - I have been using a 120" screen in my dedicated basement theater room, where the ceiling is only 6 1/2' high, for the last 5 years. The motorized screen housing is mounted right up against the ceiling and the bottom of the screen when lowered is only 14" from the floor. When you are sitting in the front row sofa, 9 feet from the screen, your eyes are level with the horizontal center line of the screen - I think it is the perfect distance and viewing angle! I am using an Epson 5010 projector, 13 feet from the screen, mounted on the ceiling - the lens is 8" down from the celing, so it's actually a few inches lower than the top of the screen; although, the 5010 has adjustable lens shift, the 3010 does not. My theater room is 25' deep by 13'4" wide. Here's a pic from my freytheater.com website - you can see more photos on my homepage, the link is in my signature below.



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post #32 of 56 Old 07-19-2012, 10:52 AM
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I dont know if this has been mentioned but if the top of the screen is really close to the ceiling and your ceiling is white you will get a horrible reflection off that portion of the ceiling. I have seen screens too close and it was a distraction.
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post #33 of 56 Old 07-19-2012, 11:48 AM
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I do get some reflection off the white ceiling panels, but it's really not that bad because the panels have a flat finish on their surface - what reflection is there is not really distracting to viewing a movie at all... But, I DO have plans to redo the ceiling tiles in the front half of the theater room in flat black, to help with contrast from the illuminated white of the ceiling. I already have the sprayer and a gallon of black paint on hand - it's just a matter of time in getting it done. I had to rebuild my entire basement theater room after flooding from Tropical storm Lee last September, and currently I'm still working on completing baseboard and door trim back in the snack bar area...

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post #34 of 56 Old 07-19-2012, 02:15 PM
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This is making me go measure my wall just to see how big i can go
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post #35 of 56 Old 07-19-2012, 04:39 PM
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I'm a long time Hi-power user first with a XG75 crt projector then with several digital projectors,most recently a jvc hd 1. The ceiling mount of the projector does cost some of the gain but not as excessive as one would think from the fact sheet . Electric vs manual pull is a mute point as the sag is usability based on roller size in the screen housing ,ie 3" roller on model C pull downs and some of the electric models vs 17/8 " on model B pull downs. One of the nicer things about the Hi-power fabric is its very heavy duty ,not prone to waves ,and also the way it reflects light causes any waves to be almost unnoticeable during a movie. Get a model C pull down in your size if money is tight ,if automation is useful a Cosmopolitan works well biggrin.gif
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post #36 of 56 Old 07-19-2012, 08:09 PM - Thread Starter
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Mike suggested going 14" away from the ceiling. That would also get the center of the screen nearer eye level. Should be able to pick up some gain too.
Going with the Cosmopolitan (hopefully) and an IR remote. TX-NR709 should be on it's way shortly as well.
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Originally Posted by FreyTheater View Post

Neveser - I have been using a 120" screen in my dedicated basement theater room, where the ceiling is only 6 1/2' high, for the last 5 years. The motorized screen housing is mounted right up against the ceiling and the bottom of the screen when lowered is only 14" from the floor. When you are sitting in the front row sofa, 9 feet from the screen, your eyes are level with the horizontal center line of the screen - I think it is the perfect distance and viewing angle! I am using an Epson 5010 projector, 13 feet from the screen, mounted on the ceiling - the lens is 8" down from the celing, so it's actually a few inches lower than the top of the screen; although, the 5010 has adjustable lens shift, the 3010 does not. My theater room is 25' deep by 13'4" wide. Here's a pic from my freytheater.com website - you can see more photos on my homepage, the link is in my signature below.

That's a nice theater you have there. Sound in that thing must rock.

Pain Gauge - my electro-industrial music project

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post #37 of 56 Old 07-20-2012, 08:52 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by studlygoorite View Post

120" with 8' ceiling crazy........hell no, I have a 7' ceiling with a 174".

+1 I've got a 120" and less than 8' ceilings also...

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post #38 of 56 Old 07-20-2012, 09:51 AM
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If you're ceiling-mounting your projector and using HP material, you will most definitely benefit from a darker ceiling (if possible).

The aforementioned 14" drop will also help notably.

If your projector is ceiling-mounted in a position behind your main seats, it will also help to lower the screen as much as you can in your space. This will reduce the viewing angles (which helps with gain) and helps lower the amount of light that will get dumped back at your ceiling near the screen.

I have a 66"x155" (168" diagonal) cinemascope screen with a 7'10" ceiling, and am using the HP fabric. My ceiling is covered with black fabric panels near the screen, which helps notably:



(old photo during construction)
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post #39 of 56 Old 07-20-2012, 11:04 AM
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I think the height is not so much the problem, but how far you will be away from the screen, the resolution is the main concern.

I have tried SONY VW-100 and it was good, but SIM2 projector's resolution was better, so at the same distance , (I have a 135" stewart screen) 9'ft ceiling ,
I am about 10ft away from the screen)

And I think if you are too close you will notice the pixels which ruins the experience more than anything.
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post #40 of 56 Old 07-20-2012, 12:20 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fat Dave View Post

If you're ceiling-mounting your projector and using HP material, you will most definitely benefit from a darker ceiling (if possible).
The aforementioned 14" drop will also help notably.
If your projector is ceiling-mounted in a position behind your main seats, it will also help to lower the screen as much as you can in your space. This will reduce the viewing angles (which helps with gain) and helps lower the amount of light that will get dumped back at your ceiling near the screen.
I have a 66"x155" (168" diagonal) cinemascope screen with a 7'10" ceiling, and am using the HP fabric. My ceiling is covered with black fabric panels near the screen, which helps notably:

(old photo during construction)

Aren't those Scripts a little too small to be mains?
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post #41 of 56 Old 07-20-2012, 02:55 PM
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I don't have the calculations at hand now, but I have an eight foot ceiling in my den/theater and I installed a 120" diagonal screen.

The motorized screen comes down in front of the only natural light source in the room - a bay window. I wanted to (and did) install my satellite receivers, home theater PC., Blu Ray and JVC VCR(yep) in an enclosure at the bottom of the screen.

In installation, I gutted the ledge under the bay window and turned it into that shelf that I keep those components in/on. The screen comes down to the top of that opening. Also, the motorized screen housing is installed in an alcove at top, that comes down off the ceiling about 14 inches. When I am in den mode, with the screen fully retracted, the only thing you can see is the alcove, which is designed like a long box.

So, even with the space taken up by the alcove box at top, and the space taken up by the component shelf at bottom, I still get just about 120 " diagonal on my screen.

As already stated, whatever projector you choose, follow the chart for distance and screen size carefully. If your projector can make a 120 inch picture, given where you can install it, you should easily have the room to fit your screen.

I think these calculations are right - if you have five feet on the vertical, and 8.9 feet on the horizontal, you end up just over 120" on the diagonal. This leaves you with three feet to play with. In my case, my alcove comes down fourteen inches, and my component shelf at the screen bottom comes up about eighteen.

Someone check my trigonometry, but it looks like you could go even bigger than 120 if you wanted to stuff it in there.
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post #42 of 56 Old 07-20-2012, 10:03 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 911turbojk View Post

I think the height is not so much the problem, but how far you will be away from the screen, the resolution is the main concern.
I have tried SONY VW-100 and it was good, but SIM2 projector's resolution was better, so at the same distance , (I have a 135" stewart screen) 9'ft ceiling ,
I am about 10ft away from the screen)
And I think if you are too close you will notice the pixels which ruins the experience more than anything.

I can get 10ft from the screen with ease. I could go 12ft easily as well, so I should be in good shape as far as seating distance goes.
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Originally Posted by Lone Cloud View Post

Someone check my trigonometry, but it looks like you could go even bigger than 120 if you wanted to stuff it in there.

You're right, you could go bigger, but things will be really tight. I had to save a little room of the sides for the speakers. I didn't want to have to invest in acoustically transparent material.

@Fat Dave - Nice screen!

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post #43 of 56 Old 07-22-2012, 10:00 PM
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I too have 8' ceiling and here's 110" taped off in my room.

You guys think I can do 119" as well? I'm 10.5' seating distance w/ throw of 13'.

How low should the bottom be off the ground? right now I taped it off to be right below the plasma since I still have to mount a speaker on the wall. I didn't think I'd want the center channel much lower than right below the plasma.

I'm doing the Da-Lite cosmopolitan HP, paired with the Epson 5010. Daytime I figure I can still watch it, and at night I was told to switch to cinema mode.
See thread here http://www.avsforum.com/t/1382091/jvc-rs-45-sony-hw30-benq-w7000-epson-5010-mini-shootout/2880
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post #44 of 56 Old 07-23-2012, 06:52 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gadgetfreaky View Post

You guys think I can do 119" as well?

Yup.
119" is not a huge difference from 110", and should be near negligible in terms of negative consequences.

It's not too often that someone will exclaim "Man, I should have gone with a smaller screen!"
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post #45 of 56 Old 07-25-2012, 11:27 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fat Dave View Post

Yup.
119" is not a huge difference from 110", and should be near negligible in terms of negative consequences.
It's not too often that someone will exclaim "Man, I should have gone with a smaller screen!"

A 119" diagonal 16:9 screen is 18% larger than a 110" diagonal 16:9 screen. That is a healthy increase. If you are dealing with a low gain screen, then this change will only cost you a little over 1.5 Foot Lamberts. If you are dealing with a screen with gain, then it can make a significant difference in Foot Lamberts. With a 1.3 gain screen, it will cost you 2.5 Foot lamberts.

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post #46 of 56 Old 07-26-2012, 08:23 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AV Science Sales 5 View Post

A 119" diagonal 16:9 screen is 18% larger than a 110" diagonal 16:9 screen. That is a healthy increase. If you are dealing with a low gain screen, then this change will only cost you a little over 1.5 Foot Lamberts. If you are dealing with a screen with gain, then it can make a significant difference in Foot Lamberts. With a 1.3 gain screen, it will cost you 2.5 Foot lamberts.

I'm going with the Da-LIte High Power screen (gain 2.4). I taped off 110" vs. 119" .. what do you guys think? at only 10' away.. I think mike is right.. I don't want to see the pixels or screen door. 110?

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post #47 of 56 Old 07-27-2012, 01:41 AM
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Most screens are vinyl and do benefit from tensioning. The HP screens are fiberglass and can't be tensioned.

Are you sure about that? The HP does come in the Cinema Contour Fixed Frame, and the instructions do talk about pushing down on the bottom rail to tension the fabric (page for, under 'High Power', here: http://www.da-lite.com/products/install_pdfs/234.pdf). But then again, the HP does not come in the electric tensioned screens... so I'm a little confused.
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Some folks have reported seeing waves in their HP screens while the room lights are on, but this is rarely noticed during lights-off viewing due to the retro-reflective nature of the beast.

Isn't the Optoma Panoview GrayWolf 1.8 gain grey screen technically 'retro-reflective'? If so, mine, which I've had for 6 years, had waves in it, & I really noticed it in pans. It's one of the reasons I got a fixed frame 1.1 gain Elite frame, which was a bad idea for other reasons (more on that below).
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I may go with an electric non-tensioned HP screen. Tensioned really drives the price up, out of my budget.

Don't think you can even get the HP in an electric tensioned form... just checked da-lite.com and couldn't find any electric tensioned screens that come in HP or High Contrast HP.

BTW, gadgetfreaky: with all those white walls & ceilings, I'd be concerned with reflections raising your black level. When I went from my Optoma GrayWolf 92" 1.8 gain grey screen to my 120" Elite white 1.1 gain screen, my contrast from the same projector dropped 3-fold (measured)! Albeit, the top of my screen is only inches away from my white ceiling. So I'm basically here trying to figure out what screen to replace my Elite screen with. The retroreflective high gain should help in the sense that it sends light back towards the source, so I'm assuming that means less scatter to side walls & ceilings since it's a less diffuse surface. But I'm still afraid of reflections so I'm thinking of going with the High Contrast High Power screen, as it's supposedly a HP screen with a grey base.

I also have a wall of mirrors 25' in front of my screen (projector is 15' from screen, so 10' in front of the mirrors). I wonder if that's doing anything?
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post #48 of 56 Old 07-27-2012, 05:33 AM
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^^^

the mirrors certainly aren't helping, and with a retro screen, they will do even more damage... can you cover them somehow while you are using the pj? if you go to a retro screen, you will HAVE to do something about them... the mirrors and the retro screen will just ping pong light back and forth between them... it's important to control reflections from behind you with a retro screen (actually, it's probably job 1)...

i'm a novice user (i also have a 110" hp screen), but i'll throw in a couple pennies... no screen can work miracles... i have found that every time i make the front of my room a little bit darker, the better the picture is (i don't think i'm breaking new ground here... smile.gif )... if you could paint the surrounding area black (say the front wall and maybe a few feet out on the ceiling and walls, it would likely make a HUGE difference... a gallon of paint will be the cheapest and most effective "upgrade" you can make...

when i first started out into pj's, i conceptually realized that "light control" was important... that was driven home as i got a bit more experience (and learned that "light control" didn't just mean "black out the windows")... for example, i can now sit in my room and have a boatload of light over the seats, but still have a very watchable picture, especially for stuff like sports...

ime, one of the advantages of the hp screen (besides the gain), is that it doesn't "light up the room" like my original da-lite matte screen did.... that original screen lit the room up like a christmas tree...

i originally bought hphc material, but when that suffered death by cat, i swapped over to the hp material... my "preference" in my room would be for the hp over the hphc, but my room is reasonably "non reflective"...

as a side note, i had a black diamond screen as well... while that was pretty magical at rejecting light from above, it still didn't work miracles, and i prefer the hp screen, as it is brighter (i like lumens smile.gif ), more uniform, and doesn't hotspot/sparkle... the sparkling really bothered me after awhile...

- chris

 

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post #49 of 56 Old 07-27-2012, 08:18 AM
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138" Focupix fixed 1.3 Gain 16:9 screen (130" viewable) in a room with a 7'6" ceiling (black cloth on side walls and floor, no window) with Optoma HD33 pj = excellent result, it crushes my Mitshibishi 73C9 PQ. The screen is so small because it's the widest one I could fit in my 11' wide room with some space left for speakers on the sides (there's barely an inch left of width after both speakers are hung). The right size of the screen = your wall width - width of speakers. I watch it from about 11-12 feet (could sit further back, but I find it more immersive up closer)

I'd never buy a screen that is smaller than the width of the wall you hang it on (assumed you look at it from the distance that is at least the width of the screen itself). Anything smaller is going to be a regretful waste later on.
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post #50 of 56 Old 07-27-2012, 12:46 PM
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I am very much interested in this thread
I have 15x15 room with 8ft tall on the screen side and 9' tall on the back side (Window will be covered by insulated blackout curtain)

I will be getting a Sony HW30AES (Active 3D), and I will be using 3d and 2d movies and video games

I have been shopping for a screen for days, and now I need to decide
between 106" vapex(16:9) or 120" vapex(16:9) screen.

the conference room whiteboard at my company is about 105" diagonal, and conference room is about the same size as my theater room.
I drew 120" on the wall behind the whiteboard. it does not look much bigger.

never had a projector before, so I am afraid that it may look too blurry since it is too big or too close.
I would love to get a second opinion


thank you

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post #51 of 56 Old 07-27-2012, 12:52 PM
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Quote:
the mirrors certainly aren't helping, and with a retro screen, they will do even more damage... can you cover them somehow while you are using the pj? if you go to a retro screen, you will HAVE to do something about them... the mirrors and the retro screen will just ping pong light back and forth between them...

I was afraid of exactly this. *sigh*. Well, I'll take a contrast measurement w/ the mirrors covered vs. uncovered. Doubt it's much of an issue right now w/ my diffuse 1.1 gain screen surface. But perhaps I'm wrong.
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if you could paint the surrounding area black

I want a solution impervious to moving smile.gif
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ime, one of the advantages of the hp screen (besides the gain), is that it doesn't "light up the room" like my original da-lite matte screen did.... that original screen lit the room up like a christmas tree...

Yup, my Elite 1.1 gain screen lights up the entire room. Especially the ceiling nearby.
Quote:
i originally bought hphc material, but when that suffered death by cat, i swapped over to the hp material... my "preference" in my room would be for the hp over the hphc, but my room is reasonably "non reflective"...

The HCHP is relatively new (released last year)... you already ruined it? Sad! Any reason you prefer the HP over the HCHP? If you had the HCHP from Da-Lite, did it have any of the splotchiness issues people have complained about?
Quote:
as a side note, i had a black diamond screen as well...

I can't stand the Black Diamond screen. My eyes keep focusing on the sparklies over movie content. The HP & the HCHP are considerably better than this, yes? My Optoma GrayWolf bothered me considerably as well. I wonder if the HCHP will have more sparklies than the HP? They had to do something different to maintain 2.4 gain while having a grey base (compared to the HP), yes?

BTW, did you have fixed or pull-down HP/HCHP? Pulldown is 1/3 the price of the fixed, so I'm just wondering if the fixed is worth the extra cost to avoid ripples (ripples in my GrayWolf bothered me to no end during pans, even though it's a retro-reflective screen if I understand correctly).

Many thanks!
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post #52 of 56 Old 07-27-2012, 01:16 PM
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^^^

mine is fixed. i'd never have a roll down screen if fixed is an option...

the hphc suffered a mortal wound, a 2 inch scratch near the center that it is suspected (although not proven) that my cat inflicted upon it... frown.gif

i prefer the hp i have now because the white appear whiter... could be placebo... if the front of my room wasn't black, i would have stayed with the hphc.... if you are staying with your color scheme, i'd choose the hphc if the smaller viewing cone isn't an issue... note that my projector is positioned only a foot or so from both viewer's heads, so i'm getting pretty much maximum gain as well... DO make the effort to position the pj right...

yes, i had bad splotchies on the first one, mike took care of getting it replaced for me... the second one had a few minor ones, nothing worth returning it for... couldn't see them when viewing real material...

neither the hphc or hp "sparkle"... the longer i had the bd, the more i hated those sparklies...

i have an idea... smile.gif i still have that 110" hphc material sitting here... it's got the scratch, and it needs to be cleaned (warm water with dishsoap will do it)... if you are located in the continental united states, i will send you the material in exchange for you making a donation to your local "no kill" animal shelter... pm me if interested... smile.gif

if nothing else, you can tack it up on the wall and see for yourself what it will look like, and if you can live with the scratch, you could build a frame for it and keep using it...

- chris

 

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post #53 of 56 Old 07-27-2012, 09:26 PM
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Quote:
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^^^
mine is fixed. i'd never have a roll down screen if fixed is an option...
the hphc suffered a mortal wound, a 2 inch scratch near the center that it is suspected (although not proven) that my cat inflicted upon it... frown.gif
i prefer the hp i have now because the white appear whiter... could be placebo... if the front of my room wasn't black, i would have stayed with the hphc.... if you are staying with your color scheme, i'd choose the hphc if the smaller viewing cone isn't an issue... note that my projector is positioned only a foot or so from both viewer's heads, so i'm getting pretty much maximum gain as well... DO make the effort to position the pj right...
yes, i had bad splotchies on the first one, mike took care of getting it replaced for me... the second one had a few minor ones, nothing worth returning it for... couldn't see them when viewing real material...
neither the hphc or hp "sparkle"... the longer i had the bd, the more i hated those sparklies...
i have an idea... smile.gif i still have that 110" hphc material sitting here... it's got the scratch, and it needs to be cleaned (warm water with dishsoap will do it)... if you are located in the continental united states, i will send you the material in exchange for you making a donation to your local "no kill" animal shelter... pm me if interested... smile.gif
if nothing else, you can tack it up on the wall and see for yourself what it will look like, and if you can live with the scratch, you could build a frame for it and keep using it...

There you go, cats prefer High power screens over High Contrast High Power screens. Nice offer on the old screen. smile.gif

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post #54 of 56 Old 07-28-2012, 04:56 AM
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^^^

lol! at least on initial impression anyway, as the beast hasn't attacked this one yet.... biggrin.gif

thanks... kill two birds with one stone... help out a fellow a/v guy and help out our furry friends... win-win... smile.gif

besides, mr. kitty may need a home if this screen gets mysteriously damaged.... tongue.gif

- chris

 

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post #55 of 56 Old 07-28-2012, 04:39 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ccotenj View Post

^^^
lol! at least on initial impression anyway, as the beast hasn't attacked this one yet.... biggrin.gif
thanks... kill two birds with one stone... help out a fellow a/v guy and help out our furry friends... win-win... smile.gif
besides, mr. kitty may need a home if this screen gets mysteriously damaged.... tongue.gif

You know what it is. It is the old war of cats against dogs. The neighbors dog came sneaking over and damaged the screen, making it look like the cat did it. smile.gif

Sorry for off topic, but it is a little slow today. smile.gif

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post #56 of 56 Old 07-29-2012, 02:44 PM
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Yes, a very generous offer indeed smile.gif I look forward to seeing how it works in my room, b/c currently here's the level of reflections I'm getting with my Elite 1.1 gain matte white screen:



Does anyone have any experience with the Draper 'Contrast Radiant CH2700E'? It's a new material & it looks pretty good to me... has a little darker base than the 'Radiant', and has a gain of 2.7 on axis, with a half-angle of 15º. I got a bunch of Draper samples & it looks good... smooth surface. Much better than their glass beaded surface (gain of 3.2).
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