Help me decide between a DNP SN 0.8/2.3 and a BD 1.4 G3. - AVS Forum
Forum Jump: 
 
Thread Tools
post #1 of 19 Old 07-21-2012, 01:19 PM - Thread Starter
Member
 
Kev1000000's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Posts: 84
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 12
Guys, I am completely torn on which screen to go with. I have received samples of all 3 and it just has made the decision even harder...

These are the screens I am debating between. All 16:9 100" diag:

  • DNP Supernova 08-85
  • DNP Supernova 23-23
  • Black Diamond Zero Edge 1.4

My projector I am paring it with (for now) is an Epson 8350.

My main issue I am having is that, every one of these screens solves one issue but introduces another. Here is my dilemma...

My projection setup is going in my main living space. I have very little ambient light control, but I am working on that a bit. Even with all of my modifications, there will still be a fairly large amount of ambient light in the room.

First up: DNP Supernova 08-85.
I really like this screen. Amazing viewing angles, absolute no shean/sparklies of any kind, and no color shift. It really is a great screen. Problem is, I am finding the ambient light rejection to be quite inferior to the BD 1.4 in my environment. At night, this is the best screen bar none. No doubt there. But in daylight, it washes out quite a bit. It's also fairly dim. Nothing my 8350 can't handle right now, but I only have 140hrs on my bulb. I am worried that after 1000hrs or so, this screen will be too dim to use in any sort of daylight.

Second: DNP Supernova 23-23.
I was surprised at how much I liked the extra gain (2.3). It really makes the image feel like a giant TV. Bright material really pops off of the screen. Problem is, I notice a lot of sparklies, and the ambient light rejection is the worst of all 3. In daylight, any sort of dark material is unwatchable. However, I really really like the extra gain, because I want to move to an LED-based projector in the future, and they tend to have much lower lumens. I also don't have to worry about my aging bulb at all. This thing is crazy bright. Viewing angles are superb for such high gain.

Third: Black Diamond Zero Edge 1.4.
This screen has definitely the best ambient light rejection of all 3 (at least in my environment). I have a lot of side lighting (windows), and the BD seems to handle it the best. It is also the darkest of all the materials, but with the gain at 1.4, I get great contrast. However, the viewing angles on this thing are horrendous compared to the DNP's, and it has the most amount of sparklies of all 3. I do LOVE the Zero Edge design, however. And since this is going in my living room, it would make the room look so incredibly sexy. I have a very modern look, and I feel the Zero Edge design fits it perfectly.


As you can see, I like all 3 for different reasons, but I am really unsure at this point of which one to go with. I am not sure I can live with the amount of sparklies I see on the BD, but I love the look of the Zero Edge so much. I thought the DNP 08-85 would be the best to go with, but I am really worried about the .8 gain material being too dim in the future for my desire for an LED-based projector (no maintenance). The DNP 23-23 is awesome with its brightness, but it's relatively poor ambient light rejection and slight sparkle effect really leave me worried.

So, I am basically asking you guys to give me some opinions on which of these issues you think would be the best to compromise with. Budget really isn't a concern, I am just trying to find the best long-term screen material for my environment.


I would say my usage breakdown is like this:

  • 65% watching movies at night (no ambient light)
  • 25% watching TV shows/movies/sports during the day (lots of ambient light)
  • 10% watching all sorts of content with friends with artificial (no sun) ambient light.

This is seriously the hardest purchasing decision I have had to deal with... heh First world problem, eh?

My Home Theater
Screen: DNP Supernova BLADE (08-85)
Projector: Espon 8350
Receiver: Yamaha RX-671
Speakers: DefTech 8060-ST
Kev1000000 is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #2 of 19 Old 07-21-2012, 02:41 PM
Advanced Member
 
henrich3's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Colorado
Posts: 693
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 6 Post(s)
Liked: 51
Could you do a dual screen setup to get the best of both worlds - BD for day, HP or matte white for evening?
henrich3 is offline  
post #3 of 19 Old 07-23-2012, 06:55 AM - Thread Starter
Member
 
Kev1000000's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Posts: 84
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 12
Hmm. I never thought about a dual screen setup. Not sure I have the budget for 2 screens though.

My Home Theater
Screen: DNP Supernova BLADE (08-85)
Projector: Espon 8350
Receiver: Yamaha RX-671
Speakers: DefTech 8060-ST
Kev1000000 is offline  
post #4 of 19 Old 07-23-2012, 09:51 AM
AVS Club Gold
 
AV Science Sales 5's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: A beautiful view of a lake
Posts: 7,563
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 284 Post(s)
Liked: 402
If you are working on the ambient light problem, then I would really consider the 08/85 fabric since you said you like it at night time the most. Keep in mind, screens and speakers are long term items in an HT. Projectors tend to get changed out after a few years. The current crop of projectors are a fair amount brighter in best image mode, compared to the 8350, so I would expect your next projector to be a fair amount brighter. If we can help you with any questions, let us know.

Mike Garrett, AV Science Sales Call Me: 585-671-2968
Email Me:
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

Brands we sell: 
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
 
Call for B-stock projectors
Stewart, Seymour, SE, SI, Falcon & many more.
RBH, Martin Logan, Triad, Atlantic Technology, MK Sound, BG Radia, SVS & Def Tech.
AV Science Sales 5 is online now  
post #5 of 19 Old 07-23-2012, 04:49 PM
AVS Special Member
 
mmiles's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Maryland
Posts: 1,962
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Watching Diners, Drive Ins and Dives. It looks like a plasma even with the kitchen lights on (there is a 8' x 10' opening on the screen wall to kitchen dining area).

10'8" wide in 2.37 or 110" diag in 16:9.

Mike Miles

ICR [ Sales Consulting and Small Part-Time AV shop, very small...  ]

Process Integration, Inc. [ contract sales consultant ]

Eastern Shore of Maryland

mmiles is offline  
post #6 of 19 Old 07-23-2012, 04:50 PM
AVS Special Member
 
mmiles's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Maryland
Posts: 1,962
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3 Post(s)
Liked: 10
I can see some grain in the fabric but no sparkles from 15' away

Mike Miles

ICR [ Sales Consulting and Small Part-Time AV shop, very small...  ]

Process Integration, Inc. [ contract sales consultant ]

Eastern Shore of Maryland

mmiles is offline  
post #7 of 19 Old 07-26-2012, 01:21 PM
AVS Special Member
 
Will Binegar's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 1999
Location: Redondo Beach, CA, USA
Posts: 1,018
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
You pretty well summed up what I found in comparing the Supernova and Black Diamond materials (though I never noticed sparkles in what we watched). I went with the 08-85 and its a nice improvement over the Dalite High Contrast Cinemavision it replaced. I have a family rooom with ambient light issues as well. Most of the time the 08-85 does pretty well, but there is a period in the late afternoon that there's still some wash-out in some scenes. I think that the Black Diamond 1.4 would be better during that window with respect to rejecting the ambient light, but as you noted, I'd have to live with the color shift and reduced viewing angles all the time. It's possible that a calibration could fix the color shift issue on the BD, but I don't know if the shift is the same on axis as off. Anyway I sympathize with your dilemma, having just been there. I should note that I've got a relatively bright machine working with a 100" diagonal screen, so opting for the 08-85 over the 23-23 wasn't too big a concern.
Will Binegar is offline  
post #8 of 19 Old 07-26-2012, 01:33 PM
AVS Special Member
 
Will Binegar's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 1999
Location: Redondo Beach, CA, USA
Posts: 1,018
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
By the way, the 08-85 is doing a great job of handling the ambient light from house lighting; it's the sunlight that spills through my defenses that does the damage. I can turn the can lights above the couch way up and still have a very watchable picture. Also, I wanted to mention that I've read a number of comments saying in effect that LED projectors seem to appear brighter than the lumen readings would suggest; don't know if that's really true, but I thought I'd pass it along.
Will Binegar is offline  
post #9 of 19 Old 07-26-2012, 06:40 PM - Thread Starter
Member
 
Kev1000000's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Posts: 84
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 12
Thanks Will, that is good to hear. What projector are you pairing your Supernova with? Did you get a Supernova One or Core? Black frame or silver?

My Home Theater
Screen: DNP Supernova BLADE (08-85)
Projector: Espon 8350
Receiver: Yamaha RX-671
Speakers: DefTech 8060-ST
Kev1000000 is offline  
post #10 of 19 Old 07-27-2012, 07:36 AM
AVS Special Member
 
Will Binegar's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 1999
Location: Redondo Beach, CA, USA
Posts: 1,018
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
I've got a SIM2 C3X-E, (720p three chip DLP, 2500 lumens on the spec sheet). I got the new Core in black.
Will Binegar is offline  
post #11 of 19 Old 07-27-2012, 10:53 AM
Senior Member
 
speavler's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Danville, CA
Posts: 266
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Liked: 20
I just installed my 1.4 gain BD zero edge 2.35 screen in our family room. still formulating my opinion on it. there is a window directly to the side of the screen that i'll be putting a blackout cellular shade on to improve daytime viewing. viewing angle is a concern during the day. at night with lights on, it performs much better. i'm pretty sure a brighter projector is in my future (currently using a Mits HC4000), but then my concern is the possibility of more sparkles. the appearance is awesome. a white fixed screen would be distracting when not in use in a family room setting, imo.
speavler is offline  
post #12 of 19 Old 07-27-2012, 11:05 AM - Thread Starter
Member
 
Kev1000000's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Posts: 84
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 12
Thanks Speavler. With my samples, the BD 1.4's viewing angle's look horrendous. Is this as noticeable with the large screen? Also, how do the sparklies look? On my sample, they are definitely noticeable, but I am having a hard time judging how well the samples illustrate how a larger screen would look.

I am leaning toward the DNP 08-85 at this point, mainly because I love not having to deal with sparkles. The price is pretty high though and I am really worried about the low gain. Are future projectors going to continue to get brighter?

My Home Theater
Screen: DNP Supernova BLADE (08-85)
Projector: Espon 8350
Receiver: Yamaha RX-671
Speakers: DefTech 8060-ST
Kev1000000 is offline  
post #13 of 19 Old 07-27-2012, 11:27 AM
Senior Member
 
speavler's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Danville, CA
Posts: 266
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Liked: 20
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kev1000000 View Post

Thanks Speavler. With my samples, the BD 1.4's viewing angle's look horrendous. Is this as noticeable with the large screen? Also, how do the sparklies look? On my sample, they are definitely noticeable, but I am having a hard time judging how well the samples illustrate how a larger screen would look.
I am leaning toward the DNP 08-85 at this point, mainly because I love not having to deal with sparkles. The price is pretty high though and I am really worried about the low gain. Are future projectors going to continue to get brighter?

I noticed sparkles in one spot of the screen on a bright scene on O Brother Where Art Thou. I was distracted by it, but then I didn't notice any for the rest of the movie. The viewing angle from the opposite side of the currently uncovered window during the day is pretty bad. Doesn't concern me much at this point b/c i planned all along to cover that window, but also i guess there's only so much that a screen can do against sunlight.
speavler is offline  
post #14 of 19 Old 07-27-2012, 11:59 AM
Member
 
Coup330's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Posts: 74
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
I think you guys mix up a bit a HighGain screen and a LowGain screen. There not designed for the same projectors. HighGain screens for projectors with less light and LowGain Screen for projectors with more light output in principal. This can also change depending on what you want to achieve, daytime viewing, viewing with artificial light, etc. And then this can change again with light coming from above or the sides.

@speavler
With light coming from the sides a Stewart Firehawk G3 1.25 screen would have been a better choice (and not such an color-shifter like the BD). The BD are better with light coming from above, as you noticed.

I think the DNP Supernova 08-85 has the least downsides of the hole gray screens out there, but it needs a strong projector light output. A Sim2 C3X certainly has this.
Coup330 is offline  
post #15 of 19 Old 07-27-2012, 09:41 PM
AVS Club Gold
 
AV Science Sales 5's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: A beautiful view of a lake
Posts: 7,563
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 284 Post(s)
Liked: 402
Quote:
Originally Posted by Coup330 View Post

I think you guys mix up a bit a HighGain screen and a LowGain screen. There not designed for the same projectors. HighGain screens for projectors with less light and LowGain Screen for projectors with more light output in principal. This can also change depending on what you want to achieve, daytime viewing, viewing with artificial light, etc. And then this can change again with light coming from above or the sides.
@speavler
With light coming from the sides a Stewart Firehawk G3 1.25 screen would have been a better choice (and not such an color-shifter like the BD). The BD are better with light coming from above, as you noticed.
I think the DNP Supernova 08-85 has the least downsides of the hole gray screens out there, but it needs a strong projector light output. A Sim2 C3X certainly has this.

High output, low output projector. it is all relative to the size of the image. What you might consider a high output projector on a 100" screen, would be considered a low output projector on a 140" screen. You need to match the whole system, screen size, gain, projector light output, throw distance and room ambient light.

Mike Garrett, AV Science Sales Call Me: 585-671-2968
Email Me:
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

Brands we sell: 
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
 
Call for B-stock projectors
Stewart, Seymour, SE, SI, Falcon & many more.
RBH, Martin Logan, Triad, Atlantic Technology, MK Sound, BG Radia, SVS & Def Tech.
AV Science Sales 5 is online now  
post #16 of 19 Old 07-27-2012, 10:16 PM - Thread Starter
Member
 
Kev1000000's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Posts: 84
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 12
I guess my main concern is my future projector purchase. I think the DNP 08-85 would be the best for my Epson 8350, but I really want my next projector to be low maintenance (LED) since this is in my living room. Unless something changes in the near future, I just can't see LEDs hitting any lumen value that will drive the 08-85 correctly.

Any thoughts on this?

My Home Theater
Screen: DNP Supernova BLADE (08-85)
Projector: Espon 8350
Receiver: Yamaha RX-671
Speakers: DefTech 8060-ST
Kev1000000 is offline  
post #17 of 19 Old 07-30-2012, 08:26 AM
AVS Special Member
 
mmiles's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Maryland
Posts: 1,962
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3 Post(s)
Liked: 10
I was getting 16 - 17 ftL off the screen using the 23-23 (110" 16:9 approx. 36 sqft) Based on math, no measurements, one would get about half that since the .85 is not even a unity gain screen to start.

The PACKAGE has to be taken into consideration. Screen size, screen gain, projector lumens, room lighting etc are all factors like MG states.

A 100" 16:9 screen is about 30 sq feet. So in theory a 600 lumens projector would produce 20ftL in a dark room.

The LED projectors I have seen and used do look brighter in person. I remember Dan Miller ( former Marantz top dog ) giving a demo for Projection Design and the picture was on a Stewart StudioTech 1.3 gain and it looked great. Everyone tried to guess the foot lamberts off the screen. No one got it right it measured 8 ftL.

Mike Miles

ICR [ Sales Consulting and Small Part-Time AV shop, very small...  ]

Process Integration, Inc. [ contract sales consultant ]

Eastern Shore of Maryland

mmiles is offline  
post #18 of 19 Old 07-30-2012, 09:36 PM - Thread Starter
Member
 
Kev1000000's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Posts: 84
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 12
So, in theory, if I went with the DNP 08-85 now, in about 2 years, LED projectors will be bright enough even at < 1000 lumens to drive this thing? If so, the DNP 08-85 it is.

My Home Theater
Screen: DNP Supernova BLADE (08-85)
Projector: Espon 8350
Receiver: Yamaha RX-671
Speakers: DefTech 8060-ST
Kev1000000 is offline  
post #19 of 19 Old 08-16-2012, 02:45 PM
AVS Club Gold
 
AV Science Sales 5's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: A beautiful view of a lake
Posts: 7,563
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 284 Post(s)
Liked: 402
Quote:
Originally Posted by mmiles View Post

I was getting 16 - 17 ftL off the screen using the 23-23 (110" 16:9 approx. 36 sqft) Based on math, no measurements, one would get about half that since the .85 is not even a unity gain screen to start.
The PACKAGE has to be taken into consideration. Screen size, screen gain, projector lumens, room lighting etc are all factors like MG states.
A 100" 16:9 screen is about 30 sq feet. So in theory a 600 lumens projector would produce 20ftL in a dark room.
The LED projectors I have seen and used do look brighter in person. I remember Dan Miller ( former Marantz top dog ) giving a demo for Projection Design and the picture was on a Stewart StudioTech 1.3 gain and it looked great. Everyone tried to guess the foot lamberts off the screen. No one got it right it measured 8 ftL.

In a good light controlled room, with dark non reflective walls, people would be shocked at just how bright 8FL would look. By the math, 3D brightness should be low in my room on my .85 gain screen, but I find it plenty bright. That is what a bat cave does for you. Most just are not willing or allowed to do that with their rooms.

Mike Garrett, AV Science Sales Call Me: 585-671-2968
Email Me:
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

Brands we sell: 
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
 
Call for B-stock projectors
Stewart, Seymour, SE, SI, Falcon & many more.
RBH, Martin Logan, Triad, Atlantic Technology, MK Sound, BG Radia, SVS & Def Tech.
AV Science Sales 5 is online now  
Reply Screens

Tags
Projection Screens , Epson , Epson Powerlite Home Cinema 8350

User Tag List

Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page


Forum Jump: 

Posting Rules  
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off