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post #91 of 109 Old 12-20-2016, 08:14 AM
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Yes I understand that some projectors have memory and zoom capabilities. But if you have a 2.35:1 screen does the JVC's zoom (in your case) allow you to fully utilize the LCOS panels for both 2.35 and 16:9 sources on the 2.35:1 screen size?

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post #92 of 109 Old 12-20-2016, 08:40 AM
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Yes I understand that some projectors have memory and zoom capabilities. But if you have a 2.35:1 screen does the JVC's zoom (in your case) allow you to fully utilize the LCOS panels for both 2.35 and 16:9 sources on the 2.35:1 screen size?
Not sure I follow. Remember, all content is encoded as 16:9 (and projectors display as 16:9) including scope movies as black bars are built into image. All you are doing is zooming the image in both 2:35 and 16:9 to fit the screen height. With 2:35 movies, the black bars spill onto the walls and are typically invisible.

With an A-lens and processing, you are able to get those pixels in the black bars to be part of the 2:35 image as a result of the image being scaled. Is that what you meant?

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post #93 of 109 Old 12-20-2016, 09:19 AM
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Oh I didn't know the black bars were part of the 8bit word coding. That being the case wouldn't the 16:9 have more pixel info than the 2.35 in the vertical(I know this has probably been rehashed a 1000x on AVS, lol).

So do you use a 2.35 screen and then mask the sides and zoom in for 16:9? How big is your screen?

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post #94 of 109 Old 12-20-2016, 10:08 AM
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Oh I didn't know the black bars were part of the 8bit word coding. That being the case wouldn't the 16:9 have more pixel info than the 2.35 in the vertical(I know this has probably been rehashed a 1000x on AVS, lol).

So do you use a 2.35 screen and then mask the sides and zoom in for 16:9? How big is your screen?
Correct; a 16:9 image technically has more pixel info than a 2:35 image. However, visually I find it hard to tell any difference as it just comes down to the quality of the source material.

I have not tried masking yet, but I have been considering it lately with the Styrofoam method I mentioned. I'm sure visually it would look better, but there is something about vertical "bar" unused areas that look less bothersome versus black bars you get with scope movies on the top and bottom of a 16:9 screen unmasked.

My screen is 2:35 and 9 feet wide. I use the zoom method.

Originally, I had considered just going 16x9, but sitting 10.5 feet back, I found 16:9 movies too large and felt like being in the front rows or too much of an IMAX effect. With scope movies at that distance, they are large but not overwhelming.

I also like every movie being the same height and my eyes always being in the same height position of the screen.

Every once in a while I feel like seeing a 16:9 movie larger than on my scope screen (but not as large as I could display) to Craig's earlier point, but not enough to really justify messing with anything and the image wouldn't be that much bigger than today if you know what I mean.

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post #95 of 109 Old 12-20-2016, 10:49 AM
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So for a 9' wide, how far should you sit back. I forgot the rule, is it 1.2x width.

So if you went with a 9' wide 16:9, your screen height would be 14" more than what you have now which should be 46" for the 2:35.

I have a 7' wide 16:9.

Considering most TV content(HDTV) is 16:9 and you get very used to watching that aspect ratio, that when you put in a 2.35 movie it increases the WOW factor.

Doing an automatic side masking system would be easier than doing the top bottom masking as well...Well at least to me it would be easier to DIY, as I've thought a lot of both designs. But I was concerned about what I had mentioned previously. I think the new Epson laser projectors have the memory zooms, which I'm thinking might be my next projector. I'm not sure if my VW95 has that option.

What brand/model of screen do you have.

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post #96 of 109 Old 12-20-2016, 10:56 AM
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Oh I didn't know the black bars were part of the 8bit word coding. That being the case wouldn't the 16:9 have more pixel info than the 2.35 in the vertical(I know this has probably been rehashed a 1000x on AVS, lol).

So do you use a 2.35 screen and then mask the sides and zoom in for 16:9? How big is your screen?
I've been " zooming " on a 2.35:1 screen for almost 7 years now. While you do lose 20% of the pixels watching 2.35:1 this way, I just can't see it. Watched " Lone Survivor " in 4K UHD Blu Ray last night, and the detail was amazing ( on the RS600 projector ). Even Blu Rays look amazing ( like Lucy here ) -


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post #97 of 109 Old 12-20-2016, 11:01 AM
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When you say you've been zooming on a 2.35 screen, do you mean you set it up for 2.35, then you adjust the zoom for the 16:9 to fit into the 2:35 ratio.

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post #98 of 109 Old 12-20-2016, 01:01 PM
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When you say you've been zooming on a 2.35 screen, do you mean you set it up for 2.35, then you adjust the zoom for the 16:9 to fit into the 2:35 ratio.
I'm going from 2.35:1 to 16:9, and back again. Basically you zoom the picture bigger to push the black bars off the screen for 2.35:1. I used to do it manually with power zoom and focus, but now with lens memory handling the power zoom and focus for you, it's a one button affair.

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post #99 of 109 Old 12-20-2016, 01:27 PM
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So for a 9' wide, how far should you sit back. I forgot the rule, is it 1.2x width.

So if you went with a 9' wide 16:9, your screen height would be 14" more than what you have now which should be 46" for the 2:35.

I have a 7' wide 16:9.

Considering most TV content(HDTV) is 16:9 and you get very used to watching that aspect ratio, that when you put in a 2.35 movie it increases the WOW factor.

Doing an automatic side masking system would be easier than doing the top bottom masking as well...Well at least to me it would be easier to DIY, as I've thought a lot of both designs. But I was concerned about what I had mentioned previously. I think the new Epson laser projectors have the memory zooms, which I'm thinking might be my next projector. I'm not sure if my VW95 has that option.

What brand/model of screen do you have.
There are screen size/seating distance guidelines, but it really comes down to personal preference. When I first got my set-up, I was sitting about 9 feet back and that started to feel too close....hence my moving back to around 10.5 feet. It just feels like the sweet spot for me. If I had a 16x9 screen at the same width, I would need to sit about 13-14 feet back I would guess...but then scope would feel too small. I prioritize for scope, but 16:9 content really doesn't feel small other than that once in a great while feeling of watching such content larger on a certain movie.

I use my front projection set-up for movies 95% of the time (I might watch classic Trek or Twilight Zone occasionally). So scope usually works great and it can really be appreciated.

The new laser Epson is very nice, but it would be my second choice to the JVC RS500 I have (which is virtually same performance as the RS600). It has notably better contrast and light output especially once calibrated. It also works extremely well with UHD BD too. However, the laser is nice in that it will hold a calibration much longer and the light output will be more steady and reduced slower over a longer period of time. However, the new JVC lamps are very stable actually. It just comes down to priorities and preferences really.

My screen is the Stewart ST100.

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post #100 of 109 Old 12-20-2016, 01:57 PM
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Craig,

I thought you were using one projector for each screen.

I understand pushing the black bars off the screen with a zoom, my VW95 has zoom but not for that purpose. What do you do when there are subtitles in the black bar portion, I guess you just miss what they say, I have no idea why some of these movie houses do that.

David,

When I had my CRT setup 5 years ago I had my seating at 9' and it was about right for 7' wide, now I have it at 11' and it feels too narrow. I think the height would be okay(2.35) for the distance but the width needs more when it comes to scope movies.

I'm like you I don't watch TV on my projector(I have a 60" Sony TV for that stuff in the family room) unless it's HBO series or football/hockey. I've had this Vw95 for 4 years and it only has 1800hrs on it.

Yes I agree the JVC would have better blacks, although the JVC my brother had (can't remember what the model was years ago, it was their top of the line at the time), in time it developed a purple stripe down the left side and actually I never thought it looked as good as my Sony, but some of that could have been his screen. It was either a Dalite or a Carada. Now of course the newer JVC no doubt have improved but they've had their problems in the last few years with their models and the bulbs too.

My reason for wanting to go with Epson is because of it's laser(27k hrs in eco mode), no worry about replacing lamps and recalibrating(which really isn't that big of a deal I suppose as I have Calman and the i1pro. From I've read the new Epsons throw a pretty nice picture, let's not forget that some of that deprnds on the screen too. Of course you two guys both have Stewarts so you'd be okay, lol. I haven't decided what new screen I'd get, either the Neve or ST 100 or maybe the DreamScreen UltraHDV6 brightwhite(non AT). BUtI'll have to get samples of each to compare.

Walter

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post #101 of 109 Old 12-20-2016, 02:46 PM
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Craig,

I thought you were using one projector for each screen.

I understand pushing the black bars off the screen with a zoom, my VW95 has zoom but not for that purpose. What do you do when there are subtitles in the black bar portion, I guess you just miss what they say, I have no idea why some of these movie houses do that.

David,

When I had my CRT setup 5 years ago I had my seating at 9' and it was about right for 7' wide, now I have it at 11' and it feels too narrow. I think the height would be okay(2.35) for the distance but the width needs more when it comes to scope movies.

I'm like you I don't watch TV on my projector(I have a 60" Sony TV for that stuff in the family room) unless it's HBO series or football/hockey. I've had this Vw95 for 4 years and it only has 1800hrs on it.

Yes I agree the JVC would have better blacks, although the JVC my brother had (can't remember what the model was years ago, it was their top of the line at the time), in time it developed a purple stripe down the left side and actually I never thought it looked as good as my Sony, but some of that could have been his screen. It was either a Dalite or a Carada. Now of course the newer JVC no doubt have improved but they've had their problems in the last few years with their models and the bulbs too.

My reason for wanting to go with Epson is because of it's laser(27k hrs in eco mode), no worry about replacing lamps and recalibrating(which really isn't that big of a deal I suppose as I have Calman and the i1pro. From I've read the new Epsons throw a pretty nice picture, let's not forget that some of that deprnds on the screen too. Of course you two guys both have Stewarts so you'd be okay, lol. I haven't decided what new screen I'd get, either the Neve or ST 100 or maybe the DreamScreen UltraHDV6 brightwhite(non AT). BUtI'll have to get samples of each to compare.
No. Both projectors have lens memory. I have two just because, and so I can also demo the JVC against the SOny 4K projector. They can both use either screen.

Nothing wrong with going with the Epson laser. I will mention that the current JVC's have been very trouble free.

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post #102 of 109 Old 12-20-2016, 03:02 PM
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I'd like to say that too, "I have two just because" lol.

So the JVC's have been trouble free...........so far.

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post #103 of 109 Old 12-20-2016, 03:53 PM
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I'd like to say that too, "I have two just because" lol.

So the JVC's have been trouble free...........so far.
New imaging chips, and new lamps. The RS500 is the most popular projector by far over the last year. So there are a lot of them out there !

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post #104 of 109 Old 12-20-2016, 03:56 PM
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Craig,

David,

When I had my CRT setup 5 years ago I had my seating at 9' and it was about right for 7' wide, now I have it at 11' and it feels too narrow. I think the height would be okay(2.35) for the distance but the width needs more when it comes to scope movies.

I'm like you I don't watch TV on my projector(I have a 60" Sony TV for that stuff in the family room) unless it's HBO series or football/hockey. I've had this Vw95 for 4 years and it only has 1800hrs on it.

Yes I agree the JVC would have better blacks, although the JVC my brother had (can't remember what the model was years ago, it was their top of the line at the time), in time it developed a purple stripe down the left side and actually I never thought it looked as good as my Sony, but some of that could have been his screen. It was either a Dalite or a Carada. Now of course the newer JVC no doubt have improved but they've had their problems in the last few years with their models and the bulbs too.

My reason for wanting to go with Epson is because of it's laser(27k hrs in eco mode), no worry about replacing lamps and recalibrating(which really isn't that big of a deal I suppose as I have Calman and the i1pro. From I've read the new Epsons throw a pretty nice picture, let's not forget that some of that deprnds on the screen too. Of course you two guys both have Stewarts so you'd be okay, lol. I haven't decided what new screen I'd get, either the Neve or ST 100 or maybe the DreamScreen UltraHDV6 brightwhite(non AT). BUtI'll have to get samples of each to compare.
If you're room is very dark the better contrast and blacks of the JVC can be appreciated; if the room is not like that, you may not see the difference and there is a benefit to laser no doubt. However, I only put on around 700 hours or so a year and reports indicate relatively little change in light loss or calibration over several hundred hours on the new JVC lamps.

Getting screen samples is a great idea.

I love the ST100 especially as I have an allergy to screen texture and sparklies.
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post #105 of 109 Old 12-20-2016, 04:40 PM
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My present room is a bat cave and I have (real) black velvet on the first 7' of the ceiling about 3' on either side of the screen.

Of course the ultimate black is CRT projection, but when I switched to my first Sony SXRD I really didn't mind the not so black of the blackest blacks.

I can say that after 1800hrs on my VW95 the calibration is still great and holding in there.

What I thought were maybe slight sparkles in my Hurley Superglo flex screen, I'm now convinced it is actually the texture of the SXRD panels. When I shine a super bright LED flashlight which is probably about 5k colour I don't see any texture or sparkles from the screen even at very close range(like a foot away). Even though this screen has a gain of 1.5 it has no hot-spotting and even at large angles the picture is still almost the same as straight on. I've seen screens and TVs where you off to the side and the picture fades away, not with this one. I wish I could buy another screen like this but bigger, but unless I find one on ebay that won't happen.

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post #106 of 109 Old 12-20-2016, 05:18 PM
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My present room is a bat cave and I have (real) black velvet on the first 7' of the ceiling about 3' on either side of the screen.

Of course the ultimate black is CRT projection, but when I switched to my first Sony SXRD I really didn't mind the not so black of the blackest blacks.

I can say that after 1800hrs on my VW95 the calibration is still great and holding in there.

What I thought were maybe slight sparkles in my Hurley Superglo flex screen, I'm now convinced it is actually the texture of the SXRD panels. When I shine a super bright LED flashlight which is probably about 5k colour I don't see any texture or sparkles from the screen even at very close range(like a foot away). Even though this screen has a gain of 1.5 it has no hot-spotting and even at large angles the picture is still almost the same as straight on. I've seen screens and TVs where you off to the side and the picture fades away, not with this one. I wish I could buy another screen like this but bigger, but unless I find one on ebay that won't happen.
I highly doubt you're see anything from the panels. Every screen that has some gain will exhibit some kind of shimmer as coating is required to exhibit greater than unity gain. The more gain, the more sparklie elements are needed to give the brightness (generally speaking although grey screens help accommodate this, but one can argue they are less optimal than a white screen) which is why it's best to obtain the lowest gain screen possible IMO and to rely on a projector with sufficient brightness for your needs. 1.5 is a fairly high gain and no question prone to artifacts. I would try getting a sample of the ST100 and Neve to compare and I bet you will be pleasantly surprised. The ST100 is as "clean" as it gets but it takes the right room and projector brightness - it sounds like your room can accommodate it. If not, the Neve is a great option for someone needing some gain, but keeping sparklies to a minimum. The price is great too. The ST130 is basically the Neve I'm told with a tiny bit extra gain/coating. Craig has both.

This screen report is a good read too.

http://www.accucalav.com/wp-content/...een_report.pdf

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post #107 of 109 Old 12-20-2016, 05:32 PM
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Yeah you might right. Yes I agree every screen with gain is going to be prone to some artifacts. But unless you've seen one of these Hurley screens you can't say, I've seen high gain screens like looked horrible because of the shimmering and hotspotting, but this one is nothing like those one were. But I hope to get some samples of the ST100 and Neve, I'm waiting to hear back from Don with some contacts up here in Canada where I can get them from, as well as a sample of the Dreamscreen ultraHDv6 material.

Yes I've read that report, very interesting.

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post #108 of 109 Old 12-20-2016, 05:41 PM
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Yeah you might right. Yes I agree every screen with gain is going to be prone to some artifacts. But unless you've seen one of these Hurley screens you can't say, I've seen high gain screens like looked horrible because of the shimmering and hotspotting, but this one is nothing like those one were. But I hope to get some samples of the ST100 and Neve, I'm waiting to hear back from Don with some contacts up here in Canada where I can get them from, as well as a sample of the Dreamscreen ultraHDv6 material.

Yes I've read that report, very interesting.
It might not be a true 1.5 gain screen as many manufacturers overstate the true gain. Has it been independently tested? If it is really a 1.5, it will definitely have sparklies that are visible to a critical eye. But some people are more sensitive to them than others. The JKP 1.1 is a good example; some people say it doesn't have them, but they are very evident to other people's eyes (like mine and Jeff Meier's).
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post #109 of 109 Old 12-20-2016, 06:05 PM
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Yeah I don't know if it's been 3rd party tested, but I will say that Hurley was no small player in the screen industry as they provided most of the screens for Disney and large venues around the world, don't recall if they did any Imax. It used to be on their website where they had their screens and it was impressive at the time, although that was 11 years ago when I was l looking at their website when I ordered mine.

Over state and understate according to Jeff's report, you'd think that is their business and they can't even get the gain of their screens right. Actually according to Jeff's report Stewart is guilty of that on more than one occasion.

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