216" diagonal measured screen - AVS Forum
Screens > 216" diagonal measured screen
DES1's Avatar DES1 09:51 PM 07-02-2013
I have been running a Sanyo PLV-70 - 2200 lumens - ceiling mount 27 feet from a 216" screen. I have used this set up for 9 years. The picture has been very good. The colors could probably be a bit brighter. I am upgrading to an Epson 6020. My installer is concerned that with my screen size I may be disappointed. He said that everyone he talked to thinks the 6020 is the wrong projector for my screen size. (max screen size for a "good picture" with the 6020 is 130", you have 216" !" When I asked him "not enough lumens ?" his response was "lens quality, lumens, it's LCD, etc."...."Do you want me to look into brands like Runco & Digital Projection for you?"

This guy's been in the business for a long time and might know what he's talking about. I have heard the term 'light cannon' used on this forum. Can anyone recommend some higher powered projectors ?

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ZeGhostbear's Avatar ZeGhostbear 10:40 PM 07-02-2013
Quote:
Originally Posted by DES1 View Post

I have been running a Sanyo PLV-70 - 2200 lumens - ceiling mount 27 feet from a 216" screen. I have used this set up for 9 years.

The Epson 6020UB outputs 2400 ANSI lumens and actually calibrates nicely in the higher output modes unlike some other projectors. You can check the reviews for the 5020UB which is the consumer version.

Quote:
Originally Posted by DES1 View Post

The picture has been very good. The colors could probably be a bit brighter. I am upgrading to an Epson 6020. My installer is concerned that with my screen size I may be disappointed. He said that everyone he talked to thinks the 6020 is the wrong projector for my screen size. (max screen size for a "good picture" with the 6020 is 130", you have 216" !"

It is good to be cautious with that much screen real estate, but I threw some numbers at Projector Central's Projection Calculator Pro and it seemed feasible to me. With 216" diagonal on a 16:9 screen you would only need a screen gain of around 1.4 to reach the recommended brightness for low ambient light viewing. No idea where he came up with the 130" limitation. Of course I have neither installed nor seen these products together, but the specs suggest it is possible. For a room with ambient light you would need to move up to about 2.6 gain. Both gains were calculated with a 21' throw distance. Try the numbers out for yourself and see whether you can find a mix that suits you.
Quote:
Originally Posted by DES1 View Post

When I asked him "not enough lumens ?" his response was "lens quality, lumens, it's LCD, etc."...."Do you want me to look into brands like Runco & Digital Projection for you?"

This guy's been in the business for a long time and might know what he's talking about. I have heard the term 'light cannon' used on this forum. Can anyone recommend some higher powered projectors ?

Sure, Runco probably has something better, but at what price jump?
DES1's Avatar DES1 01:25 AM 07-03-2013
Thanks for the reply, I will pass it along to my installer. I would still be interested in hearing any recommendations on higher powered projectors.
BobL's Avatar BobL 08:00 AM 07-03-2013

Our company does mostly projector installations.  The Epson can't come close to this size in its best picture quality mode <1000 lumens depending on placement.  The Epson in its brightest mode and placed closest to the screen as possible will get over 2000 lumens with a new bulb.  Slightly more than the Sanyo and the Epson will have much better blacks even its brightest mode.  It doesn't do 2400 lumens and neither did the Sanyo put out a true 2200 lumens.  You have to crank all the settings to get those numbers and frankly the picture stinks.  The Sanyo did very well at ~1700-1800 lumens though.

 

a 216" 16:9 screen needs 1700 lumens to get 12 ft/l which is minimum reference, you'll have close to 15 ft/l to start.  You will go down to less than 10 ft/l before you notice dimmer picture at that screen size.  Many of us lived with less than that in the CRT days but you really needed a bat cave.  The Epson will work in its brightest mode and I would recommend changing the lamp ever approximately every 1000-1500 hours though for good brightness.

 

 If you can step up to a higher end Digital Projection or Runco with more lumens it would be recommended but the price jump will be significant.  Lamps are cheaper.


WereWolf84's Avatar WereWolf84 08:05 AM 07-03-2013
wondering why don't you looking for a high power screen instead of a high power projector?
airscapes's Avatar airscapes 08:17 AM 07-03-2013
So all those wrinkles and waves don't bother you? Or is that an HP screen?
ZeGhostbear's Avatar ZeGhostbear 09:03 AM 07-03-2013
Quote:
Originally Posted by BobL View Post

Our company does mostly projector installations.  The Epson can't come close to this size in its best picture quality mode <1000 lumens depending on placement.  The Epson in its brightest mode and placed closest to the screen as possible will get over 2000 lumens with a new bulb.  Slightly more than the Sanyo and the Epson will have much better blacks even its brightest mode.  It doesn't do 2400 lumens and neither did the Sanyo put out a true 2200 lumens.  You have to crank all the settings to get those numbers and frankly the picture stinks.  The Sanyo did very well at ~1700-1800 lumens though.

a 216" 16:9 screen needs 1700 lumens to get 12 ft/l which is minimum reference, you'll have close to 15 ft/l to start.  You will go down to less than 10 ft/l before you notice dimmer picture at that screen size.  Many of us lived with less than that in the CRT days but you really needed a bat cave.  The Epson will work in its brightest mode and I would recommend changing the lamp ever approximately every 1000-1500 hours though for good brightness.

 If you can step up to a higher end Digital Projection or Runco with more lumens it would be recommended but the price jump will be significant.  Lamps are cheaper.

I have read many reviews where the light output of the projector has to be dropped significantly during the color calibration process to achieve accuracy. The Epson 5020UB is the first in the sub $3,000 category where this does not seem to be the case. Chris Eberle, of Secrets of Home Theater and High Fidelity, has recently reviewed this unit. His measurements, listed here under contrast performance, claim 20.52 fL when fully calibrated in Natural mode (down from 26 fL). What are your thoughts on that Bob?
MississippiMan's Avatar MississippiMan 09:57 AM 07-03-2013
Look into the BenQ SP940

http://www.projectorcentral.com/BenQ-SH940.htm

DLP w/50 K:1 CR and 4K Lumens

It'll be good fur ya........and way less than anything else suggested so far.
DES1's Avatar DES1 07:13 PM 07-03-2013
What about the Epson G or Z series ?
BobL's Avatar BobL 08:09 PM 07-03-2013

My thoughts are he his taking measurements off the screen which is fine, but to translate it into lumens we need to know the size of the screen.  I didn't see it in the review but I know it isn't anywhere close too 216" for the type of screen being used and the settings used on the projector.  If it is the screen mentioned in his other review of the Mitsubishi 8000 he is using a 92" screen and that would seem on par for the measurements.

 

If I calculate for a 92" 1.0 gain screen (The Carada isn't a 1.4 gain screen with real measurements, closer to a 1.0) the projector is putting out about 650 lumens in natural mode and on the economy bulb setting.  This sounds a little low but might be correct if the projector is placed farther from the screen within its the zoom range or depending on the age of the bulb which isn't stated in the review.

 

In general most companies have inflated specs and use various techniques to get them and rarely publish figures on how the equipment is likely to be set up.  An industry professional once told us in a class "The only specs I trust from a manufacturer are size and weight, the rest is marketing."  This is pretty much true in most cases and with projectors unrealistic lumens and contrast figures are common.


pottscb's Avatar pottscb 09:14 PM 07-03-2013
Light control is your best friend, smoke those windows and buy the Epson (unless you have money for a 3 chip DLP, there's pretty good deals on V'gon). Have fun...
ZeGhostbear's Avatar ZeGhostbear 10:45 PM 07-03-2013
Quote:
Originally Posted by BobL View Post

My thoughts are he his taking measurements off the screen which is fine, but to translate it into lumens we need to know the size of the screen.  I didn't see it in the review but I know it isn't anywhere close too 216" for the type of screen being used and the settings used on the projector.  If it is the screen mentioned in his other review of the Mitsubishi 8000 he is using a 92" screen and that would seem on par for the measurements.

If I calculate for a 92" 1.0 gain screen (The Carada isn't a 1.4 gain screen with real measurements, closer to a 1.0) the projector is putting out about 650 lumens in natural mode and on the economy bulb setting.  This sounds a little low but might be correct if the projector is placed farther from the screen within its the zoom range or depending on the age of the bulb which isn't stated in the review.


Good point about the missing screen size. At the listed throw distance of 11' the maximum image size would be 113", but I have posted a comment on the review to find out for sure.

I was not trying to suggest the OP would get the same light output as the reviewer, but I thought it should scale according to what the calculator suggests?

Quote:
Originally Posted by BobL View Post

In general most companies have inflated specs and use various techniques to get them and rarely publish figures on how the equipment is likely to be set up. An industry professional once told us in a class "The only specs I trust from a manufacturer are size and weight, the rest is marketing." This is pretty much true in most cases and with projectors unrealistic lumens and contrast figures are common.

Considering what attention to detail marketers of consumer electronics usually display and how many product development changes there usually are, I would not even trust the size and weight wink.gif
DES1's Avatar DES1 01:09 AM 07-04-2013
How about the Epson G series ? 3 chip, 5000 lumens.
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