Stewart Cima Neve 1.1 gain screen - Page 2 - AVS Forum
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post #31 of 42 Old 02-17-2014, 03:49 PM
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Did a quick comparison test while W. Jeff Meier of AccuCal was here. The Stewart Cima Neve 1.1 material is definitely brighter than the HD Pro. 1.1 material. And the StudioTek 130 G3 is brighter than the HD Pro 1.3 - at least the samples I have. The Da Lite HD Pro looks somewhat gray in comparison. That doesn't mean they are " bad " - just not as bright.

Jeff has screen samples now so eventually he can add them to his screen material database.

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post #32 of 42 Old 02-17-2014, 07:51 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Craig Peer View Post

Did a quick comparison test while W. Jeff Meier of AccuCal was here. The Stewart Cima Neve 1.1 material is definitely brighter than the HD Pro. 1.1 material. And the StudioTek 130 G3 is brighter than the HD Pro 1.3 - at least the samples I have. The Da Lite HD Pro looks somewhat gray in comparison. That doesn't mean they are " bad " - just not as bright.

Jeff has screen samples now so eventually he can add them to his screen material database.

So, did the Neve seem just as smooth as the Pro 1.1?
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post #33 of 42 Old 02-18-2014, 03:13 PM
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It did, but the Da Lite screens had more " sparklies " than the Stewart screens.

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post #34 of 42 Old 02-18-2014, 05:12 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Craig Peer View Post

Did a quick comparison test while W. Jeff Meier of AccuCal was here. The Stewart Cima Neve 1.1 material is definitely brighter than the HD Pro. 1.1 material. And the StudioTek 130 G3 is brighter than the HD Pro 1.3 - at least the samples I have. The Da Lite HD Pro looks somewhat gray in comparison. That doesn't mean they are " bad " - just not as bright.

Jeff has screen samples now so eventually he can add them to his screen material database.

Something doesn't add up here.  This is directly contrary to what I measured from my HD Progressive 1.3 screen and my StudioTek 130G3 sample.  In my case, the HD Pro 1.3 was visibly brighter and my measurements showed this.  I would rate the HD Progressive 1.3 superior to the ST 130G3 based on what I saw and measured.  See my post from last November http://www.avsforum.com/t/1499122/screen-sample-shoot-out-jkp-hd-progressive-1-1-and-1-3-studiotek-130-carada-bw#post_23953015.  So, there must be some substantial variance in one or the other (or both) screen materials.

 

Bob

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post #35 of 42 Old 02-18-2014, 06:17 PM
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I have had HD Pro samples that seemed to vary. I'll wait for Jeff at AccuCal to test them. We just did a quick visual comparison.

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post #36 of 42 Old 02-18-2014, 11:53 PM
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The gain of the screens are very sensitive to the angle you measure them from. In my experience especially the HD screens have a large drop off unless you're exactly in the sweetspot both vertically and horizontally. It might well be you can get opposite result depending on your measurement setup.
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post #37 of 42 Old 02-19-2014, 06:45 AM
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Originally Posted by Drexler View Post

The gain of the screens are very sensitive to the angle you measure them from. In my experience especially the HD screens have a large drop off unless you're exactly in the sweetspot both vertically and horizontally. It might well be you can get opposite result depending on your measurement setup.

Yes, I'm aware of proper positioning of the meter, and I optimized my meter on each sample for the measurements.  Also, these screens are not very directional with a half-angle of 75 degrees and 80 degrees for the HD Progressive 1.3 and the Stewart 130G3 respectively.  I think you might be thinking of the Da-lite HP screens which are quite difficult to measure off the screen due to their very directional behaviour.  I know, I had a HP2.8 screen.  I'm also certain Craig and Jeff are quite knowledgeable, especially Jeff as he has measured the directional properties of many screens

 

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post #38 of 42 Old 02-19-2014, 08:06 AM
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All I'm saying is that the effective gain of the JKP screens have a much faster drop-off than the Stewart screens in my expecience, which will affect th measurements if you're not REALLY careful. Maybe you measured it from it's optimal position and Craig didn't? For me it was obvious that the JKP 1.3 and ST130 were quite close in brightness in the sweetspot but when I moved just slightly to the side the ST130 was clearly brighter.

I also think the half gain angle measurement is a bit misleading. If the base is a white material all the effective gain of the coating can have vanished of a 1.3 gain screen and it's still far from the half gain angle whereas a HP screen with a half gain of 1.2 or 1.4, which is much higher than the base substrate, will reach the half gain when still having an effective gain. I.e. in my experience the effective gain of the HP is not more narrow than that of the JKP or ST130 screens. There is just a smaller difference between gain and no gain in the latter screens. If you instead measure the angle to 1.0 gain for all three screens you would see that they wouldn't differ that much. They can therefore be as finicky (or more so!) than the HP when it comes to measuring the maximum gain. After all with the HP you can just measure close to the PJ and you would get a good reading. With angular reflective screens you would have to find the right angle rather precisely both horizontally and vertically to find the sweetspot.

BTW, I know Jeff is a very knowledgeble guy but he still didn't measure the HP gain accurately in his accucal report (He measured the HP with the projector mounted high giving a much too low of a value IIRC). I'm just saying being knowledgable doesn't eliminate mistakes or perhaps taking shortcuts in this case.
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post #39 of 42 Old 02-19-2014, 09:58 AM
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For all I know Da Lite mislabeled the samples. I had HD Pro 1.1 and 1.3 samples ( large engineering samples ) that for the life of me I could see absolutely no difference between them. And the original 1.1 samples looked yellowish - the newer ones look white.

Anyway, it will be interesting to see Jeff's take on these and where he thinks they fit in to the other screens he has tested.

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post #40 of 42 Old 04-04-2014, 09:05 AM
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The Cima Neve screen got a great review in the latest Sound and Vision magazine !!

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post #41 of 42 Old 04-08-2014, 03:59 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Craig Peer View Post

This is an excellent question. When I first got into home theater over 10 years ago, not only were projectors not that great contrast wise, I also never had a dedicated theater space. It was always a " media room ". Compromises had to be made. The décor wasn't dark, there was occasionally light in the room. The picture suffered. I started using grey screens pretty early on. Overall they just looked better. DLP projectors at least looked like they had better contrast, and what little on / off contrast they had was preserved by the screen, rather than washing out due to reflections from white walls etc. The picture looked pretty good. I was happy.

Then, when I came back to work for AV Science I decided to see what I could do to improve my home theater. I have a dedicated theater, but it was setup more like a media room. My SIM Lumis throws an outstanding picture. Could I make it look even better? I owe a lot of this to Rich Harkness. I read his theater build thread and realized I'd become complacent regarding my theater. Rich explained how and why he had picked the Stewart StudioTek 130 G3 screen over the Firehawk G3 screen. I was using a Firehawk screen myself. So I got a sample of StudioTek 130 and devised a screen sample holder that would allow me to put the sample in front of my Firehawk. The blacks / contrast on the StudioTek looked terrible compared to my Firehawk. I grabbed a big " police " type flashlight ( lots of D cells - bright ) and stood at the screen. I did the " flashlight test ". Lots of things in the room reflected back onto the screen, and washed out the StudioTek.. First I decided to cover the beige carpet with black carpet rugs from Walmart. That worked well, but the ST 130 still didn't look as good as the FH. Then I had a giant rug made that covered the entire front 2/3's of the theater. Better. Next, I re-painted the ceiling and the side walls darker grey. Now the ST was starting to look as good or better overall than the FH. I then painted the back walls much darker, put a black MDF board in front of the popcorn machines glass case, hung black curtains and Protostar material on part of the back wall, and hung another red velvet curtain over a white closet door. Now the blacks on space movies etc. looked as good on the StudioTek 130 sample as they did on the Firehawk. I then switched screens. I first replaced my 2.35:1 Firehawk with a 2.35:1 StudioTek, and I also replaced my 16:9 High Contrast Cinema Vision screen with a 16:9 Neve 1.1. The Lumis looks totally awesome on these screens ! smile.gif

I am currently using a Firehawk G3 16:9 like u where and have been wondering if the StudioTek 130 would make the picture even better. I have a Runco LS-1 projecting on a 100" screen with all walls in my theater a dark grey (almost black) check out my profile for a few theater pictures. In your opinion would I see much of a difference in the StudioTek and what would the cost of just switching out the screen be?
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post #42 of 42 Old 04-09-2014, 03:07 PM
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Send me an email with the serial number of your screen and I can get a price to switch materials while re-using your frame. With your room dark like that, in my experience you will be pleased with the result of going to the StudioTek 130. I sure am !! smile.gif

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