SI Black Diamond screen and Sony VPL-VW1000ES MAJOR 3D DISPLAY PROBLEM - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 15 Old 10-25-2013, 01:15 PM - Thread Starter
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Hello everyone, please help me out with the following problem. I have brand new VPL-VW1000ES  4K projector and Screen Innovations Black Diamond Zero Edge 1.4 16:9 100" screen which i bought from one of the official SI dealers.

While watching 3D movies in 3D glasses and even slight head movement to the side i am getting awful vertical lines which kills whole picture. Looks like some crazy polarisation issue. Active glasses should not have such a problem but it is there...

 

I am using original sony glasses. Projector is latest revision.

Attaching pics..

 

 

SI dealer told me I have a best screen on the market and it is a problem of my projector which is  "old"  version and should be upgraded by SONY.

SONY dealer told me my projector is latest revision and they never did any firmware upgrades to anything related to my issue.

Both projector and screen i bought just few months ago.

 

I tried expanding screen to the wall and wall side of the picture does not have such a problem, only SI screen part.

But SI dealer still tells me it is not related to the screen and i have wrong projector.

 

 

This is a damn deadlock  and i have no idea what to do to fix that issue as watching 3D movies is almost impossible, it is very hard to keep head straight all the time withing 1deg.

 

Did anyone ever had anything like that?

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post #2 of 15 Old 10-25-2013, 01:39 PM
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You stated which projector and which screen... but you didn't mention which glasses... it seems those should be considered an important part or the equation. Also your video source/player could be a factor.

Provide some more data... which firmware revision are you running? What are your settings? What other equipment is in use? How is it connected?

I don't have this projector and I'm not going to be able to test anything for you but since this is your first post on the forums I can help you to know some of the things that others will need to know to help you. Generally the more information you can provide the better chance someone can assist.

Good Luck!

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post #3 of 15 Old 10-25-2013, 02:02 PM - Thread Starter
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right, i wrote i am using original sony glasses which  came with the projector, p/n TDG-PJ1.

I have three sources, Dune 303D Media Player, HTPC and OPPO BD-92 bluray player, all of them has the same issue.

There are not much of a settings to try related to 3D... i tried all the combinations.

Here is a projector firmware and other info

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post #4 of 15 Old 10-25-2013, 07:45 PM
 
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Have you tried displaying on a white wall, sheet, poster board or something else? Make sure it is the screen and not the projector causing the problem. If it works fine on a wall it is most likely the screen and its interaction with the polarization of the glasses.
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post #5 of 15 Old 10-26-2013, 01:59 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ttlnb View Post

Have you tried displaying on a white wall, sheet, poster board or something else? Make sure it is the screen and not the projector causing the problem. If it works fine on a wall it is most likely the screen and its interaction with the polarization of the glasses.


my beidge painted wall does not have such a problem. just tried with white paper sheet and there is no problem again. it happens only with SI screen and sony glasses combination..

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post #6 of 15 Old 10-28-2013, 09:12 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tr402m View Post

Hello everyone, please help me out with the following problem. I have brand new VPL-VW1000ES  4K projector and Screen Innovations Black Diamond Zero Edge 1.4 16:9 100" screen which i bought from one of the official SI dealers.
While watching 3D movies in 3D glasses and even slight head movement to the side i am getting awful vertical lines which kills whole picture. Looks like some crazy polarisation issue. Active glasses should not have such a problem but it is there...

I am using original sony glasses. Projector is latest revision.
Attaching pics..








SI dealer told me I have a best screen on the market and it is a problem of my projector which is  "old"  version and should be upgraded by SONY.
SONY dealer told me my projector is latest revision and they never did any firmware upgrades to anything related to my issue.
Both projector and screen i bought just few months ago.

I tried expanding screen to the wall and wall side of the picture does not have such a problem, only SI screen part.
But SI dealer still tells me it is not related to the screen and i have wrong projector.


This is a damn deadlock  and i have no idea what to do to fix that issue as watching 3D movies is almost impossible, it is very hard to keep head straight all the time withing 1deg.

Did anyone ever had anything like that?

There was a problem with pairing an SXRD projector with a BD 1.4 gain screen. Later I remember this problem being resolved, but I can't remember what the resolution was for sure, but I think Sony made a change to the projector. You can do a search in the BD thread and you should get some hits. on this. I remember one of my customers bought a VW95ES and he had a BD screen. He had this same problem and sold the screen. That was a couple years ago. Shoot me an email reminder and I will see if I can get you an answer.

Mike Garrett, AV Science Sales Call Me: 585-671-2968
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post #7 of 15 Old 10-29-2013, 12:11 AM
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Is the projector reflecting straight on, or from the side? Try straight on.

It looks like the screen is polarizing the light. Not too surprising considering a screen like that is pretty purely specular. You can verify it with polarized glasses (not the 3d kind).

You may need to give up on 3d or change screens.
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post #8 of 15 Old 10-29-2013, 12:53 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rcohen View Post

Is the projector reflecting straight on, or from the side? Try straight on.

It looks like the screen is polarizing the light. Not too surprising considering a screen like that is pretty purely specular. You can verify it with polarized glasses (not the 3d kind).

You may need to give up on 3d or change screens.


tried different projector locations. still hope what that is some firmware issue, SI dealer assures me it is known problem and SONY has some solution for it. Just need to find  right SONY service center/engineer, at this time the ones i contact refuses to help..  i am not in US..

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post #9 of 15 Old 11-15-2013, 06:29 AM
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Try to lower the resolution of the projector to 1080p. Turn off upscaling to 4K

your projector is 4K. It also can upscale HD 1080p to UHD 3960 (4K).

3D splits the image between left and right eyes.

thats why when watching 3D res is decreased by one half. so the player and the disc 3D are made for 1080p.

my guess that your projector beams 4K. when watching 3D the resolution is halfed from 4K to 2K which is twice the expected res of 3D.

my assumption is based on theory. What you said about seeing vertical lines and remembring that 3D works with vertical and horisntal lines somthing somthing i forgot exactly.

anyways, what makes your problem worse is having SI screen which covered in tiny "glitter" to increase contrast.
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post #10 of 15 Old 11-16-2013, 05:31 AM
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Do you get this problem when you project on the wall (not the SI screen)?

All I can imagine is a timing problem with your 3D glasses (which would show up on the wall, too), or a polarization problem with the SI screen (which would not show up on the wall).

I am using adjustable 3D glasses (EStar ESG6100), and that is what it looked like when the timing was adjusted wrong. I think the polarizing problem is more likely, though.
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post #11 of 15 Old 11-18-2013, 09:35 PM
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I think the BD screen retains some polarization. The light coming from the Sony is polarized and there are polarizing filters in the glasses (all linear, I don't know if red green and blue are all polarized in the same direction on the Sony or not). when you tilt your head you a cutting the brightness of the polarized light to some extent (probably in an uneven way with the BD material). That is likely the source of your problem.

Good news is that 3D systems using glasses do not provide a sense of 3D when you tilt your head to the side, so you can't watch 3D with your head tilted anyway. Can you see these stripes when you give your head just a little tilt (~5-10 degrees)? If not, then you have nothing to worry about. But if you do still see it, I think you will need to get a screen that doesn't retain any polarization.
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post #12 of 15 Old 11-19-2013, 02:08 PM
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This problem is a polarization issue. It is caused by an interaction of the circular polarization of Sony light engine/glasses and the screen. Sony has recognized it as their issue and has added a filter in all of the newer product. Sony has an aftermarket filter that they will provide, free of charge. Simply contact them in the region that you live in. I know that this was discovered in the U.S. shortly after the introduction of the VPL-HW50ES and the VPL-VW1000ES. Your dealer should be able to handle this for you.
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post #13 of 15 Old 11-19-2013, 02:35 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tom.SI View Post

This problem is a polarization issue. It is caused by an interaction of the circular polarization of Sony light engine/glasses and the screen. Sony has recognized it as their issue and has added a filter in all of the newer product. Sony has an aftermarket filter that they will provide, free of charge. Simply contact them in the region that you live in. I know that this was discovered in the U.S. shortly after the introduction of the VPL-HW50ES and the VPL-VW1000ES. Your dealer should be able to handle this for you.

Thank you for the email and posting.

Mike Garrett, AV Science Sales Call Me: 585-671-2968
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post #14 of 15 Old 11-28-2013, 03:08 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tom.SI View Post

This problem is a polarization issue. It is caused by an interaction of the circular polarization of Sony light engine/glasses and the screen. Sony has recognized it as their issue and has added a filter in all of the newer product. Sony has an aftermarket filter that they will provide, free of charge. Simply contact them in the region that you live in. I know that this was discovered in the U.S. shortly after the introduction of the VPL-HW50ES and the VPL-VW1000ES. Your dealer should be able to handle this for you.


Hello Tom, thank you for reply. I bought projector in Japan and SONY JAPAN replied what they do not have such filter available and know nothing about this problem. Thus it is not possible to fix projector via my dealer. Can you help me getting that filter through SONY USA? thank you.

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post #15 of 15 Old 04-11-2014, 12:36 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tr402m View Post

Hello everyone, please help me out with the following problem. I have brand new VPL-VW1000ES  4K projector and Screen Innovations Black Diamond Zero Edge 1.4 16:9 100" screen which i bought from one of the official SI dealers.
While watching 3D movies in 3D glasses and even slight head movement to the side i am getting awful vertical lines which kills whole picture. Looks like some crazy polarisation issue. Active glasses should not have such a problem but it is there...

I am using original sony glasses. Projector is latest revision.
Attaching pics..








SI dealer told me I have a best screen on the market and it is a problem of my projector which is  "old"  version and should be upgraded by SONY.
SONY dealer told me my projector is latest revision and they never did any firmware upgrades to anything related to my issue.
Both projector and screen i bought just few months ago.

I tried expanding screen to the wall and wall side of the picture does not have such a problem, only SI screen part.
But SI dealer still tells me it is not related to the screen and i have wrong projector.


This is a damn deadlock  and i have no idea what to do to fix that issue as watching 3D movies is almost impossible, it is very hard to keep head straight all the time withing 1deg.

Did anyone ever had anything like that?

Standard for that combination apparently. Sony has a thin plastic filter in a black spring-steel mount that clips on to the front of the lens, fitting neatly between the end of the lens and the door so the door can continue to operate normally. Sony tech support for the projectors gave me mine for free. (You have to get through to the real projector support people though. Sony India will be of zero help.) Totally solves the problem and appears water-clear when held to the light. Holding it halfway across the image of a white screen, I could detect no darkening at all on the half it was covering, so I've had no qualms about leaving it in place full-time.
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